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This is Gills one shot at doing the absolute best thing
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Unknownghost Offline
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Post: #1
This is Gills one shot at doing the absolute best thing
https://x.com/rossdellenger/status/17432...19622?s=46

The big vote is Monday, it costs Gill and the other G5 commissioners nothing to keep this 6+6 for the next few years.
01-05-2024 10:01 PM
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Eagleyed Offline
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RE: This is Gills one shot at doing the absolute best thing
The PAC-12 still exists right now? Do they get a vote still. I mean it requires all 12 to vote unanimously to change it.
01-05-2024 10:09 PM
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Unknownghost Offline
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RE: This is Gills one shot at doing the absolute best thing
(01-05-2024 10:09 PM)Eagleyed Wrote:  The PAC-12 still exists right now? Do they get a vote still. I mean it requires all 12 to vote unanimously to change it.

In the tweet below I believe they consider a conference 8 or more teams.
The mountain west was pretty much leaving money on the table for not bringing in the 2 remaining pac schools into the conference
01-05-2024 10:13 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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RE: This is Gills one shot at doing the absolute best thing
If GIll votes against it, he would be the only one, and that would be weird for the G5's to not vote in lockstep.

I think the concern from our perspective is that this is a vote for just the next 2 years. We already know the SEC is making noise about dumping the G5 spot after 2025. If we can't put competitive teams in that spot, we'll find it really hard to not find everyone on the out looking in.
01-06-2024 12:17 AM
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TTT Offline
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RE: This is Gills one shot at doing the absolute best thing
For the dummies in here (myself), does this mean:

6+6 (the initial proposed format):
The 6 highest ranked conference champions + 6 highest ranked at-larges

7+5 (the new proposed format to be voted on):
The 5 highest ranked conference champions + 7 highest ranked at larges

Is this correct?
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2024 12:33 AM by TTT.)
01-06-2024 12:32 AM
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MUther Offline
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RE: This is Gills one shot at doing the absolute best thing
(01-06-2024 12:32 AM)TTT Wrote:  For the dummies in here (myself), does this mean:

6+6 (the initial proposed format):
The 6 highest ranked conference champions + 6 highest ranked at-larges

7+5 (the new proposed format to be voted on):
The 5 highest ranked conference champions + 7 highest ranked at larges

Is this correct?

Yeah. The second one ensures that we never get more than 1 in. The first leaves a little wiggle room in case a Troy and a Boise are high ranked champs or whoever.

I might concede to a compromise: if both G5s are not top 15 then one champ slot slides to an at-large. But that would probably just lead to them never ranking a more than one in the top 15, ever.
01-06-2024 02:16 AM
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RE: This is Gills one shot at doing the absolute best thing
RUMOR.

Ain't got this pinned down from anyone I consider high level but we know the current CFP agreement only covers the 2024-25 and 2025-26 seasons. The agreement going forward is not done.

Bids are currently being solicited for TV for upcoming years and already the rumor mill says that Fox and Turner are saber rattling that they are going to go big for a cut of the 11 game package. ESPN has indicated that they'd like to do a split deal where they and another broadcaster each get two opening round games, two quarterfinal games, one semi-final and rotate the championship.

The CFP operates on a series of contracts for set periods of time. Pac-12 is using the NCAA grace period to try to stay at the table but the probability is there are likely on 9 conferences when the next deal comes around.

They've got to sort the revenue distribution for the next deal. Currently G5 take either 27% or 23% I can't remember which. The P5 were sending hard signals that the G5 share would be cut even though the money they take home would be less. Obviously 20% of 100 isn't as good as 15% of 200 even though the percentage went down. The monkey wrench is will there be a P5 or P4.

Back to the rumor.

The rumor is P5 are willing to agree to a much heftier revenue distribution to the G5 than they had previously indicated by eliminating the Pac-12 spot among the big revenue share group. CFP revenue is currently in three pools. One is making it in the NY6, so 11 of 12 payouts go to P5. One is tied to things like academic performance, then the big money is the money for existing. Each P5 gets like 14% of the revenue. The G5 has the performance based system instead each league taking like 5% they do (by their own choice) the distribution based on performance is 5 shares for finishing at the top, 4 for second, 3 for third, 2 for fourth and 1 for last.

Supposedly the P5 are looking to allocate more dollars per game played like the NCAA Tournament but the money for just existing, the new P4 would each take a portion of the share allocated to Pac-12 and put the rest into the G5 pool. Potentially HUGE increase in money.

So the leverage being #1. Hey we ain't turning the MWC into the Pac-12 and seating them at the table. #2. Not only will the share to G5 grow, the money to be divided is going to be HUGE as we move from 7 games and only three part of the playoff to 11 games leading to a champion.

But that hinges on G5 conceding an auto bid. If not then well you want a deal you take a smaller cut and we feel confident that if you don't sign on to the new deal that the ESPN/Fox/Turner money is still going to be there for those who do sign on.
01-06-2024 04:27 AM
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MUther Offline
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RE: This is Gills one shot at doing the absolute best thing
(01-06-2024 04:27 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  RUMOR.

Ain't got this pinned down from anyone I consider high level but we know the current CFP agreement only covers the 2024-25 and 2025-26 seasons. The agreement going forward is not done.

Bids are currently being solicited for TV for upcoming years and already the rumor mill says that Fox and Turner are saber rattling that they are going to go big for a cut of the 11 game package. ESPN has indicated that they'd like to do a split deal where they and another broadcaster each get two opening round games, two quarterfinal games, one semi-final and rotate the championship.

The CFP operates on a series of contracts for set periods of time. Pac-12 is using the NCAA grace period to try to stay at the table but the probability is there are likely on 9 conferences when the next deal comes around.

They've got to sort the revenue distribution for the next deal. Currently G5 take either 27% or 23% I can't remember which. The P5 were sending hard signals that the G5 share would be cut even though the money they take home would be less. Obviously 20% of 100 isn't as good as 15% of 200 even though the percentage went down. The monkey wrench is will there be a P5 or P4.

Back to the rumor.

The rumor is P5 are willing to agree to a much heftier revenue distribution to the G5 than they had previously indicated by eliminating the Pac-12 spot among the big revenue share group. CFP revenue is currently in three pools. One is making it in the NY6, so 11 of 12 payouts go to P5. One is tied to things like academic performance, then the big money is the money for existing. Each P5 gets like 14% of the revenue. The G5 has the performance based system instead each league taking like 5% they do (by their own choice) the distribution based on performance is 5 shares for finishing at the top, 4 for second, 3 for third, 2 for fourth and 1 for last.

Supposedly the P5 are looking to allocate more dollars per game played like the NCAA Tournament but the money for just existing, the new P4 would each take a portion of the share allocated to Pac-12 and put the rest into the G5 pool. Potentially HUGE increase in money.

So the leverage being #1. Hey we ain't turning the MWC into the Pac-12 and seating them at the table. #2. Not only will the share to G5 grow, the money to be divided is going to be HUGE as we move from 7 games and only three part of the playoff to 11 games leading to a champion.

But that hinges on G5 conceding an auto bid. If not then well you want a deal you take a smaller cut and we feel confident that if you don't sign on to the new deal that the ESPN/Fox/Turner money is still going to be there for those who do sign on.

A lack of Cinderella type teams will hurt the popularity of the playoffs in the long run, I think. Unless one of us (SBC) make it I'd have no interest in watching.
01-06-2024 04:39 AM
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Bobcat87 Offline
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RE: This is Gills one shot at doing the absolute best thing
(01-05-2024 10:13 PM)Unknownghost Wrote:  
(01-05-2024 10:09 PM)Eagleyed Wrote:  The PAC-12 still exists right now? Do they get a vote still. I mean it requires all 12 to vote unanimously to change it.

In the tweet below I believe they consider a conference 8 or more teams.
The mountain west was pretty much leaving money on the table for not bringing in the 2 remaining pac schools into the conference

Actually, NO. You can’t bring in two schools that have no desire to be in your conference. The remaining PAC 2 currently operate under the belief that they can resurrect their near dead conference, and are using the 2 years granted them towards that end. The wisdom of those desires can certainly be debated.
01-06-2024 08:54 AM
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Unknownghost Offline
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RE: This is Gills one shot at doing the absolute best thing
(01-06-2024 04:27 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  RUMOR.

Ain't got this pinned down from anyone I consider high level but we know the current CFP agreement only covers the 2024-25 and 2025-26 seasons. The agreement going forward is not done.

Bids are currently being solicited for TV for upcoming years and already the rumor mill says that Fox and Turner are saber rattling that they are going to go big for a cut of the 11 game package. ESPN has indicated that they'd like to do a split deal where they and another broadcaster each get two opening round games, two quarterfinal games, one semi-final and rotate the championship.

The CFP operates on a series of contracts for set periods of time. Pac-12 is using the NCAA grace period to try to stay at the table but the probability is there are likely on 9 conferences when the next deal comes around.

They've got to sort the revenue distribution for the next deal. Currently G5 take either 27% or 23% I can't remember which. The P5 were sending hard signals that the G5 share would be cut even though the money they take home would be less. Obviously 20% of 100 isn't as good as 15% of 200 even though the percentage went down. The monkey wrench is will there be a P5 or P4.

Back to the rumor.

The rumor is P5 are willing to agree to a much heftier revenue distribution to the G5 than they had previously indicated by eliminating the Pac-12 spot among the big revenue share group. CFP revenue is currently in three pools. One is making it in the NY6, so 11 of 12 payouts go to P5. One is tied to things like academic performance, then the big money is the money for existing. Each P5 gets like 14% of the revenue. The G5 has the performance based system instead each league taking like 5% they do (by their own choice) the distribution based on performance is 5 shares for finishing at the top, 4 for second, 3 for third, 2 for fourth and 1 for last.

Supposedly the P5 are looking to allocate more dollars per game played like the NCAA Tournament but the money for just existing, the new P4 would each take a portion of the share allocated to Pac-12 and put the rest into the G5 pool. Potentially HUGE increase in money.

So the leverage being #1. Hey we ain't turning the MWC into the Pac-12 and seating them at the table. #2. Not only will the share to G5 grow, the money to be divided is going to be HUGE as we move from 7 games and only three part of the playoff to 11 games leading to a champion.

But that hinges on G5 conceding an auto bid. If not then well you want a deal you take a smaller cut and we feel confident that if you don't sign on to the new deal that the ESPN/Fox/Turner money is still going to be there for those who do sign on.
That’s cute but that’s a no go.

There's no real disincentive for any of the group of five, let alone the top two conference commissioners, to vote a no against this current five plus seven model going forward. Think about it: For starters, Keith Gill and Sun Belt have the consistent data, both from the computer sheet and then what we have on terms of the eye test in bowl games and in regular season games, that should tell anyone there that the SBC point blank is the best group of five conference out there. Now of course with the information given, that would lead anyone pretty much anyone to ask: “well if the sun belt conference is consistently the best, especially after the whole SMU situation then you really shouldn’t have an issue locking up the playoff spot right?“ Having the second playoff spot basically guarantees that the SBC gets sent to disallow any Fuckery with the committee picking more sexier/statement teams (see liberty vs Oregon) or giving them wiggle room to keep us out because due to our conference being TOUGH a champ having a 1-2 loss record from being outside looking in because a one loss MWC or AAC getting in.

If I was also Gloria Nevarez of the MWC: There's also no reason for me to vote yes for this. For starters, the potential revenue alone could upgrade some schools like Hawaii and New Mexico and whatnot to uplift the brand. Furthermore, you'd get money to easily pay for expansion targets like Montana and Montana State to come into the league, which would overall boost your record. Not to mention, if you're Oregon State/Washington State, this would straight up give you the ability to, at least for two years, get myself into the playoff spot again to at least restore some semblance of identity in terms of being a Power 5 school. Also, there's the fact that you're also a major West Coast FBS league that's in the West. That’s a selling point, and that’s a population reality that if the MWC gets in that’s a Boon for the league to argue it belongs. And besides my speculation, she’s pretty much given off the Vibe/indication that she’s going to actively pursue bettering the conference in interviews.

In terms of the backlash from the P2 boogeymen That I keep hearing about on the r/college football subreddit, semi-informed casuals, and whatnot, is that if we were to do a power play here, we would basically be asking to either A, be kicked out of any postseason discussions going forward (despite us easily suing for anti-trust) and B, the P2 to go ahead and form their own subdivision because for starters, they've already let the cat out of the bag. If the P5, or really in this case the P2, were trying to do this in secret, then yeah, that would be something to use in the cards, but now since the landscape, general energy and vibe, and even statements from the new president have been pointing to this, the group of 5 loses nothing if they do a power play. Because, simply put, we already know what's coming in the future. And then furthermore, group of 5 games, even bowl games, still generate about a million plus views every year. We get millions of views on TV every year regardless, collectively, from ESPN, so it's not like ESPN, despite basically being rebelled against, is shooting itself in the foot for giving us more playoff spots. Furthermore, half of the duo that would be doing a power play isn't even owned, media rights-wise, by ESPN. And even with the Sunbelt, the media rights negotiation is in like 6 years. So it's not like we're really losing anything.
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2024 09:49 AM by Unknownghost.)
01-06-2024 09:46 AM
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Hart Foundation Offline
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RE: This is Gills one shot at doing the absolute best thing
The answer is simple. The Sun Belt should vote to keep the 6+6 for the next 2 years and take full advantage of a higher probability of getting a team in the CFP playoff.
Too bad, so sad for the P5/P4 that agreed to this format unanimously and now want to renege.
The next 2 years cannot be changed unless there is a unanimous vote by all conferences. G5 conferences would have to be fools of the highest order to give away 2 teams in the CFP 12. True Competition and having access to the 12 team CFP is way more important than any future money that could be dangled to bribe the G5

Then just see how the 2026 CFP is negotiated with TV. Yes, it will drop to 5+7 then because only a majority vote is needed for the new contract, but America will have a taste of the glorious 12 team playoff and want more. We could easily be looking at 16 team or 24 team playoff in 2026 and beyond because TV is willing to pay for it. Then you have the necessary access for high performance for G5 teams.
01-06-2024 10:07 AM
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Post: #12
RE: This is Gills one shot at doing the absolute best thing
At one point, Mike Aresco (AAC) was going to vote to keep 6+6. I heard on a podcast that the AAC schools were telling him to vote that way, so that's what he was going to do. I want to say it was Pete Thamel on the College GameDay podcast who spoke about that.

That was months ago though, so maybe he has changed his mind?
(This post was last modified: 01-06-2024 01:08 PM by Yosef181.)
01-06-2024 01:04 PM
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Eagleyed Offline
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RE: This is Gills one shot at doing the absolute best thing
(01-06-2024 10:07 AM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  The answer is simple. The Sun Belt should vote to keep the 6+6 for the next 2 years and take full advantage of a higher probability of getting a team in the CFP playoff.
Too bad, so sad for the P5/P4 that agreed to this format unanimously and now want to renege.
The next 2 years cannot be changed unless there is a unanimous vote by all conferences. G5 conferences would have to be fools of the highest order to give away 2 teams in the CFP 12. True Competition and having access to the 12 team CFP is way more important than any future money that could be dangled to bribe the G5

Then just see how the 2026 CFP is negotiated with TV. Yes, it will drop to 5+7 then because only a majority vote is needed for the new contract, but America will have a taste of the glorious 12 team playoff and want more. We could easily be looking at 16 team or 24 team playoff in 2026 and beyond because TV is willing to pay for it. Then you have the necessary access for high performance for G5 teams.

If it's a simple majority vote doesn't that mean the G5 have their way? 5 conferences vs 4 now.
01-06-2024 01:09 PM
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RE: This is Gills one shot at doing the absolute best thing
(01-06-2024 01:09 PM)Eagleyed Wrote:  
(01-06-2024 10:07 AM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  The answer is simple. The Sun Belt should vote to keep the 6+6 for the next 2 years and take full advantage of a higher probability of getting a team in the CFP playoff.
Too bad, so sad for the P5/P4 that agreed to this format unanimously and now want to renege.
The next 2 years cannot be changed unless there is a unanimous vote by all conferences. G5 conferences would have to be fools of the highest order to give away 2 teams in the CFP 12. True Competition and having access to the 12 team CFP is way more important than any future money that could be dangled to bribe the G5

Then just see how the 2026 CFP is negotiated with TV. Yes, it will drop to 5+7 then because only a majority vote is needed for the new contract, but America will have a taste of the glorious 12 team playoff and want more. We could easily be looking at 16 team or 24 team playoff in 2026 and beyond because TV is willing to pay for it. Then you have the necessary access for high performance for G5 teams.

If it's a simple majority vote doesn't that mean the G5 have their way? 5 conferences vs 4 now.

The playoff for the next two years has already been voted in, which is why it would require the vote be unanimous to change. But in normal matters certain conferences have weighted votes. You already know which ones. So they still control everything.
01-06-2024 03:17 PM
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RE: This is Gills one shot at doing the absolute best thing
(01-06-2024 01:09 PM)Eagleyed Wrote:  
(01-06-2024 10:07 AM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  The answer is simple. The Sun Belt should vote to keep the 6+6 for the next 2 years and take full advantage of a higher probability of getting a team in the CFP playoff.
Too bad, so sad for the P5/P4 that agreed to this format unanimously and now want to renege.
The next 2 years cannot be changed unless there is a unanimous vote by all conferences. G5 conferences would have to be fools of the highest order to give away 2 teams in the CFP 12. True Competition and having access to the 12 team CFP is way more important than any future money that could be dangled to bribe the G5

Then just see how the 2026 CFP is negotiated with TV. Yes, it will drop to 5+7 then because only a majority vote is needed for the new contract, but America will have a taste of the glorious 12 team playoff and want more. We could easily be looking at 16 team or 24 team playoff in 2026 and beyond because TV is willing to pay for it. Then you have the necessary access for high performance for G5 teams.

If it's a simple majority vote doesn't that mean the G5 have their way? 5 conferences vs 4 now.

It isn’t a simple majority vote. It has to be unanimous while the contract is in place for 2 more years. The 2026 renewal only needs a majority.
All the G5 has to do is say no change.
01-06-2024 03:33 PM
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RE: This is Gills one shot at doing the absolute best thing
(01-06-2024 03:33 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  
(01-06-2024 01:09 PM)Eagleyed Wrote:  
(01-06-2024 10:07 AM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  The answer is simple. The Sun Belt should vote to keep the 6+6 for the next 2 years and take full advantage of a higher probability of getting a team in the CFP playoff.
Too bad, so sad for the P5/P4 that agreed to this format unanimously and now want to renege.
The next 2 years cannot be changed unless there is a unanimous vote by all conferences. G5 conferences would have to be fools of the highest order to give away 2 teams in the CFP 12. True Competition and having access to the 12 team CFP is way more important than any future money that could be dangled to bribe the G5

Then just see how the 2026 CFP is negotiated with TV. Yes, it will drop to 5+7 then because only a majority vote is needed for the new contract, but America will have a taste of the glorious 12 team playoff and want more. We could easily be looking at 16 team or 24 team playoff in 2026 and beyond because TV is willing to pay for it. Then you have the necessary access for high performance for G5 teams.

If it's a simple majority vote doesn't that mean the G5 have their way? 5 conferences vs 4 now.

It isn’t a simple majority vote. It has to be unanimous while the contract is in place for 2 more years. The 2026 renewal only needs a majority.
All the G5 has to do is say no change.

I think he means on everything going forward, but the other fella suggested it's a weighted vote on other matters.

As to the current situation on the playoffs, they created the mess by robbing the the PAC. They should stew in their own greed for a couple years. However, if we vote against them that could be the catalyst that sparks the big split and leaves us on the outside looking in. At that point I would hope that the G5 stop all the self-interest and work together to create a real college football division with real playoff based on an RPI/NET type model that removes the human component. You get in based on the numbers and that's all, with no preseason or last season stats included. Some teams will still be angry but at least it would be consistent.
01-06-2024 03:47 PM
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Post: #17
RE: This is Gills one shot at doing the absolute best thing
Trying find out. For the future is it weighted voted or does each conference get 1? I searched around and multiple people are 100% sure it's weighted and others are 100% sure it's equal votes. Can't find anyone backing it up with a source though.
01-06-2024 05:26 PM
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Post: #18
RE: This is Gills one shot at doing the absolute best thing
I think it would be TYPICAL if the G5 fearing breakaway or lusting after money conceded the 5+7 vote.

Time is long past to grasp that pro football is coming to college and it's not our ruination if they go all in paying players. Fox and ESPN have wanted SEC and B1G to either eliminate or reduce non-conference games. Indiana vs Maryland generally is going to draw better than Maryland vs Rhode Island or Indiana vs Toledo.

Roll the damn dice, it's not nearly the big gamble stability minded, risk averse presidents think it is.

Play two years of 6+6.

There's not one damn bit of positive public relations coming out of the NFL Lite taking away an auto bid after the two years.

If they want to walk and start NFL Lite requiring X dollars spent on player compensation, well Godspeed.

If I'm Power 4 President or AD right now, I'm talking to the best labor lawyers in the country and figuring out if we can get a collective bargaining arrangement on NIL because the biggest worry shouldn't be 5 or 6 auto bids but how to compensate players without going broke. NFL, NBA, NHL have collective bargaining agreements that cap at a percentage of revenue or specific revenue stream and they need that ASAP because there's only 30 schools that can afford unfettered wage competition and probably another 30-40 willing to risk going broke trying.
01-07-2024 01:52 AM
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RE: This is Gills one shot at doing the absolute best thing
(01-06-2024 10:07 AM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  Too bad, so sad for the P5/P4 that agreed to this format unanimously and now want to renege.

Honestly, this seems to just be the way college athletics work these days. Deals are made to be broken apparently.
01-07-2024 07:41 AM
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RE: This is Gills one shot at doing the absolute best thing
(01-07-2024 01:52 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  I think it would be TYPICAL if the G5 fearing breakaway or lusting after money conceded the 5+7 vote.

Time is long past to grasp that pro football is coming to college and it's not our ruination if they go all in paying players. Fox and ESPN have wanted SEC and B1G to either eliminate or reduce non-conference games. Indiana vs Maryland generally is going to draw better than Maryland vs Rhode Island or Indiana vs Toledo.

Roll the damn dice, it's not nearly the big gamble stability minded, risk averse presidents think it is.

Play two years of 6+6.

There's not one damn bit of positive public relations coming out of the NFL Lite taking away an auto bid after the two years.

If they want to walk and start NFL Lite requiring X dollars spent on player compensation, well Godspeed.

If I'm Power 4 President or AD right now, I'm talking to the best labor lawyers in the country and figuring out if we can get a collective bargaining arrangement on NIL because the biggest worry shouldn't be 5 or 6 auto bids but how to compensate players without going broke. NFL, NBA, NHL have collective bargaining agreements that cap at a percentage of revenue or specific revenue stream and they need that ASAP because there's only 30 schools that can afford unfettered wage competition and probably another 30-40 willing to risk going broke trying.

I would love to see them go broke. Their are plenty other colleges.
01-07-2024 08:01 AM
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