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ZCat Offline
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Post: #1
Who Should Start
Well guys, we need to get better fast.

Someone in another thread suggested we start the 5 best defensive players. This would give us an identity and set the tone for us.
That would be Day Day or Jizzle or both + Newman + Ody and Aziz.


Maybe a a mix O & D!
Jizzle or Day Day
Newman
Simas
Jamille
Vic

It’s really hard, bc there are soo many good pieces and coach needs to define roles and figure out who start, who and when to sub, when to change D or O, etc.
 
12-19-2023 01:39 AM
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ucbrownsfan Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Who Should Start
With our depth, I would do two different style groups of 5

Press, run/ gun

Day day, Newman, Skillings, Oguama, Aziz

Two Three zone with a good bit of kick out 3's on O:

Jizzle, CJ, Simas, Jamile, and Vik
 
12-19-2023 01:45 PM
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bearcatmark Offline
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RE: Who Should Start
Not to get all nerdy on it but looking at plus minus:

Aziz is+15.66 in his 6 games played

Simas +15.5

Dan +10.7

Vik +10.4

Jizzle +9.7

C.J. +9.0

Newman +8.4

BIG GAP:

DayDay +5.8

Ody +3.1

These numbers can be useful, but never are everything. In this case I do think they largely match up with what I've seen on the court.

Evan Miya also does best 2 man/ 3 man / 4 man / 5 man combos. It's still a small sample size but Aziz is in UC's best 2, 3 and 5 man combos.

Simas is in UC's best 4 and 5 man combos.

The best 5 man combo is probably an outlier as they've only played 17 possessions with that group (and have an insanely absurd efficiency). That group is: Aziz, Lahkin, Simas, Fredrick, DayDay.

Honestly, these Evanmiya combos are kind of all over the place..I think partly because Aziz has such a small number of games with the team. But according to his numbers UC's best players are as follows in this order:

1. Vik

2. Aziz

3. Jizzle

4. Simas

5. Dan

6. CJ

7. John.

8. Josh Reed (take this with a grain of salt as his minutes have come against bad teams)

9. Ody

10. Day Day

What stands out to me is Day Day/Jizzle. I'm becoming more and more convinced Jizzle needs to be the guy at PG even if there are some growing pains. I still like Day Day, but for me he may work better as a change of pace guy with his speed, and ride him if he's having a big night.

So starts:

PG Jizzle
SG CJ/Dan
SF Newman
PF Vik
C Aziz

I like the idea of bringing Simas off the bench first...giving Aziz a break and allowing Vik to play more down low.

I need to see Reynolds more to see how he fits.

I think this team needs Vik to have at least 40% of his time at the 5...and even when he's a 4 he needs to play down low or in the high post more than he is outside.

There is flexibility if playing big isn't working...you ride Simas/Newman/Dan More. But I like the idea of using our size as a strength. I think what's really hurt is that we are just now getting all three guys so adjusting is taking some time, when other teams know who they are.
 
(This post was last modified: 12-19-2023 02:04 PM by bearcatmark.)
12-19-2023 02:02 PM
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rath v2.0 Offline
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RE: Who Should Start
Not sure about Aziz with Vik as a 4. He's gotten killed out there when teams pull him out to the perimeter. I thought he'd be great as a 4. He hasn't been against the decent talent with staffs who know how to exploit him in a game plan. Wish this staff could finally install anything more than token zone - would help protect Vik from the blow bys and reaching.

I wouldn't start Skillings at SG. He's brutal on perimeter defense against anyone with quicks. Hangs the guys in the paint out to dry.
 
12-19-2023 03:09 PM
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CincyBro Offline
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RE: Who Should Start
Hope he convinced himself with all this nonsense, none matters when they start playing Big XII teams, but it might against Ironclad U.....04-cheers
 
12-19-2023 03:40 PM
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bearcatmark Offline
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RE: Who Should Start
(12-19-2023 03:40 PM)CincyBro Wrote:  Hope he convinced himself with all this nonsense, none matters when they start playing Big XII teams, but it might against Ironclad U.....04-cheers

Poster asked a question about who should start. Tried to answer it with a combination of data and my general perspective. Not sure I "convinced" myself of anything.

Start Jizzle. Start Aziz and Vik. There is a lot of flexibility with the other guys and not much separation other than Simas...who should probably play more if he's 100%.
 
12-19-2023 04:13 PM
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UCGrad1992 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Who Should Start
Shame we didn't have Aziz and Reynolds available from the first game. I think some of the lineup issues would be more sorted out by now. Thankful we still play three games before B12 schedule kicks in.
 
12-19-2023 06:02 PM
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ZCat Offline
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RE: Who Should Start
(12-19-2023 04:13 PM)bearcatmark Wrote:  
(12-19-2023 03:40 PM)CincyBro Wrote:  Hope he convinced himself with all this nonsense, none matters when they start playing Big XII teams, but it might against Ironclad U.....04-cheers

Poster asked a question about who should start. Tried to answer it with a combination of data and my general perspective. Not sure I "convinced" myself of anything.

Start Jizzle. Start Aziz and Vik. There is a lot of flexibility with the other guys and not much separation other than Simas...who should probably play more if he's 100%.

Thanks Mark.

After I posted this thread, I started listening to Chad’s post Dayton nightcap on YouTube. I missed part of it but they started getting into lineup questions. That’s gonna be very very interesting as the season progresses.
 
12-19-2023 06:14 PM
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CincyBro Offline
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RE: Who Should Start
My opinion is it doesn't matter who starts, who plays the most minutes and is proficient when the game is on the line is what matters......04-cheers
 
12-19-2023 06:34 PM
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Don't tase me bro Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Who Should Start
Jizzle is an NBA player. Probably the only one on the roster right now.
 
12-19-2023 07:19 PM
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Cal1362 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Who Should Start
(12-19-2023 06:34 PM)CincyBro Wrote:  My opinion is it doesn't matter who starts, who plays the most minutes and is proficient when the game is on the line is what matters......04-cheers

^ This! x100
 
12-20-2023 08:08 AM
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Cal1362 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Who Should Start
(12-19-2023 07:19 PM)Dont tase me bro Wrote:  Jizzle is an NBA player. Probably the only one on the roster right now.

Jizzle MAY develop into an NBA player, but right now he is not close to an NBAer which is nothing against Jizzle who is immensely talented. But his overall game isn't there yet and to be honest, as an 18-19 year old he's got plenty of time. I will say that he's been possibly UC's most consistent player to date and his upside is beyond exciting.
 
12-20-2023 08:14 AM
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levydl Offline
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RE: Who Should Start
(12-20-2023 08:08 AM)Cal1362 Wrote:  
(12-19-2023 06:34 PM)CincyBro Wrote:  My opinion is it doesn't matter who starts, who plays the most minutes and is proficient when the game is on the line is what matters......04-cheers

^ This! x100

There are 10 guys who are about the same talent levels and several of them have kind of overlapping skill sets. I always thought it would be hard to figure out how to play all the big guys enough minutes and to come up with the right combos. Aziz and Lakhin are both awesome and have to play big minutes, but I'm not sure they are wonderful together. Sorta thinking a zone might be the best option on D, but that doesn't seem to be Wes's thing. It's going to be very interesting to see how playing time shakes out.
 
12-20-2023 10:36 AM
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Don't tase me bro Offline
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RE: Who Should Start
(12-20-2023 08:14 AM)Cal1362 Wrote:  
(12-19-2023 07:19 PM)Dont tase me bro Wrote:  Jizzle is an NBA player. Probably the only one on the roster right now.

Jizzle MAY develop into an NBA player, but right now he is not close to an NBAer which is nothing against Jizzle who is immensely talented. But his overall game isn't there yet and to be honest, as an 18-19 year old he's got plenty of time. I will say that he's been possibly UC's most consistent player to date and his upside is beyond exciting.

I'm not saying he's getting drafted after this season, but that he's going to end up there.
 
12-20-2023 05:31 PM
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Cal1362 Offline
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RE: Who Should Start
(12-20-2023 05:31 PM)Dont tase me bro Wrote:  
(12-20-2023 08:14 AM)Cal1362 Wrote:  
(12-19-2023 07:19 PM)Dont tase me bro Wrote:  Jizzle is an NBA player. Probably the only one on the roster right now.

Jizzle MAY develop into an NBA player, but right now he is not close to an NBAer which is nothing against Jizzle who is immensely talented. But his overall game isn't there yet and to be honest, as an 18-19 year old he's got plenty of time. I will say that he's been possibly UC's most consistent player to date and his upside is beyond exciting.

I'm not saying he's getting drafted after this season, but that he's going to end up there.

I definitely hope you're right... either way he's been fun to watch and I look forward to watching him get better and better
 
12-21-2023 09:48 AM
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Lush Offline
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RE: Who Should Start
i think once the bigs understand how to compliment each other will go a long way in determining how we compete in the gauntlet. allowing vik to euro is a formula to success. i think his 3 ball is contestable, opening up sh!t inside. i can't wait to hear how jamelle uses his body. i know that sounds gay but he's gotta set some sick screens. hell if vik euros well enough, could we see a lineup of jizz,newman, vik, jamelle, aziz? we at least have competent lead guard play to offset the highly talented but bumbling wings
 
12-22-2023 12:02 AM
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ZCat Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Who Should Start
(12-22-2023 12:02 AM)Lush Wrote:  i think once the bigs understand how to compliment each other will go a long way in determining how we compete in the gauntlet. allowing vik to euro is a formula to success. i think his 3 ball is contestable, opening up sh!t inside. i can't wait to hear how jamelle uses his body. i know that sounds gay but he's gotta set some sick screens. hell if vik euros well enough, could we see a lineup of jizz,newman, vik, jamelle, aziz? we at least have competent lead guard play to offset the highly talented but bumbling wings

I was going to post this earlier. Remember Big John Jacobs? He used to go set screens. Maybe that is just what CJ needs…but I haven’t seen many high ball screens. Will watch closely tonight.
 
12-22-2023 05:23 AM
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eroc Offline
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RE: Who Should Start
Pulled from the Evansville thread:

(12-31-2023 07:25 AM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  
(12-30-2023 09:58 AM)eroc Wrote:  
(12-29-2023 07:24 PM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  Why does it everyone keep talking about how Day Day and Jizzle being on the court at the same time is some game changing thing for this team?

imo, jizzle + day day is a huge mistake. They are essentially the same player and both need the ball to operate. i think ppl are going here because when you don't have a coaching or strategic solution, you just throw as much talent at the problem and hope that they can figure out the solution on the floor.

Offensively, they may be the same player, but defensively, they are both great defenders with great athleticism. I don't really have a problem playing both guys if your other guards are having trouble putting the ball in the hole.

Where does this leave JNIII, who is, imo, a better defender than both of them? imo, this move isn't about defense, it's about offense but it's the wrong solution. You constantly hear Coach Miller screaming for his players to move and for the ball to move. That doesn't get helped by having two players whose skill set involve pounding the rock and getting to the rim.

For all his faults, Simas is a capable shooter (at least at home) and passer. He's the kind of glue guy that helps facilitate an offense. And while he's shorter, i think JNIII can play a similar role (i would love to see Simas and JNIII in the high post because of this versatility). On offense, i think either Simas or JNIII need to be on the floor because they don't need the ball in their hands to facilitate the offense.

i like Skilling's athleticism, rebounding, and willingness to get to the rack but he's still a one move guy and a really poor passer on offense, and a little wild on defense. And while i haven't seen a whole lot of Josh Reed previously he had a really good game against Evansville. i can actually see Reed being interchangeable with Skillings, not Ody, for minutes since he brings shooting, rebounding, and defense.

in so far as lineups go, i simply don't know how to solve the defensive rotation when Aziz gets taken out to the perimeter. Mick was really good about implementing a system that helped switch out perimeter defenders with post defenders that mitigated having our bigs defending in space. Coach Miller seems more inclined to let our bigs stray from the rim to defend. That seems less like a personnel issue and more like a system issue. On top of that, every time we go zone, we get murdered so much so that i'd prefer we just drop the zone altogether.

if we could figure out some defensive rotation that allows Aziz to stay in the key as opposed to having to defend the perimeter, that would solve a ton of problems rotation wise.
 
12-31-2023 07:46 PM
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