(12-12-2023 12:38 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(12-11-2023 08:22 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(12-10-2023 10:29 PM)BubWV Wrote:  Would Hawaii ever decide they’d want full membership into the newly formed PAC/MWC rather than being in both the Big West and MWC

Hawaii won't be invited as a full member. For football teams get to schedule an extra home game if you travel to Hawaii to offset your increased travel expenses. No member of the MWC wants to have Hawaii as a full member because of the expense of travel to play there that would have to be covered by that extra home football game. Were Hawaii to say you get us "all or nothing," the answer would be nothing.

I think you misunderstand the scope of the travel subsidies that Hawaii pays to visiting teams.

In football Hawaii pays travel subsidies of $150K to $175K per game to all visiting MWC teams. They get that money on top of whatever they earn if they play an additional game under the Hawaii exemption. That is, they aren’t having to use any of their extra game revenue to offset their increased expense of traveling to Hawaii, despite that being the ostensible purpose of the Hawaii exemption. They are allowed to double-dip at Hawaii’s expense.

The same applies for non-football sports in the Big West. Hawaii pays roughly $500 per player in travel subsidies to all visiting Big West teams, except those from the two schools that were not in the conference when Hawaii joined (UC San Diego and Cal State Bakersfield). In basketball, the Big West schools get that money on top of whatever they earn if they play an additional game under the Hawaii exemption, which also applies to basketball. So in non-football sports other than basketball they are made whole, and in basketball they are allowed to double-dip at Hawaii’s expense.

If Hawaii joined the MWC for all sports I’m sure that the non-football travel subsidies currently paid to Big West teams by Hawaii would be redirected to MWC teams. So no MWC school would incur incremental costs, and in fact they would be able to double-dip in basketball just like they already do in football.

As I said above, I don’t expect the MWC to invite Hawaii to join as a full member, but the obstacle is not the cost that MWC teams would incur from the additional travel. Hawaii’s travel subsidy payments would take care of that. The issue is the incremental time and energy they would expend in flying an extra 2,600 miles back and forth across the Pacific. MWC coaches simply don’t want their players or staffs to have to deal with that, even though at most they would only have to take one trip per team per season (unlike Hawaii’s teams, which of course each have to go back and forth over the Pacific many times per season to play all their road games).

I wonder if they could do some creative scheduling. The Big XII volleyball schedule had a round-robin, but half of the visits were for two matches. There are 13 teams (OSU does not sponsor volleyball). Each school plays 6 one-match series, and 6 two-match series for a total of 18 matches.

So let's say you have a Pacific Division with Hawai'i, OSU, the three California schools, and the two Nevada schools; and a Mountain Division with WSU, BSU, USU, CSU, Wyoming, AFA, and UNM. Play two matches against each school in your division, but rather than H-and-H, play them both away or both at home, alternating seasons. Play single matches across the division.

So the Mountain schools would play either four or three road matches against the Pacific schools, in two road trips. There would be a road trip to Hawai'i every other year.

(12-12-2023 11:17 AM)Crayton Wrote:  So, is Hawaii football in danger of being left out of a reconstituted Pac?

It's something that Hawaii fans worry about a lot, but every indication right now is that our university president, David Lassner, has a good relationship with the other MWC presidents and with Nevarez that should help minimize the risk of being kicked out. Lassner is currently the longest serving member of the MWC board, and the most recent annual in-person meeting of the conference presidents and ADs was actually held on Hawaii's campus in June of this year.

Moreover it wouldn't surprise me if Lassner took advantage of that June meeting to showcase Hawaii's athletic facilities to the other MWC presidents and ADs, many of whom had never been here. While the football stadium situation is obviously a mess, our 10K-seat basketball arena is in great shape, our 4K-seat baseball stadium is one of the best in the western U.S., and we've recently completed multi-million dollar renovations to the basketball and volleyball practice gyms, the weight room, and the softball stadium. Also we have a brand new $15 million track and soccer stadium under construction. If the MWC were willing to consider Hawaii for full membership, the caliber of our non-football facilities would not be an obstacle.

FWIW, Andy Katz was duly impressed by the hoops set-up when he was out here last month for the Maui Invitational which was hosted on the Hawaii campus:

(12-12-2023 05:22 PM)jimrtex Wrote:  

(12-12-2023 12:38 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(12-11-2023 08:22 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(12-10-2023 10:29 PM)BubWV Wrote:  Would Hawaii ever decide they’d want full membership into the newly formed PAC/MWC rather than being in both the Big West and MWC

Hawaii won't be invited as a full member. For football teams get to schedule an extra home game if you travel to Hawaii to offset your increased travel expenses. No member of the MWC wants to have Hawaii as a full member because of the expense of travel to play there that would have to be covered by that extra home football game. Were Hawaii to say you get us "all or nothing," the answer would be nothing.

I think you misunderstand the scope of the travel subsidies that Hawaii pays to visiting teams.

In football Hawaii pays travel subsidies of $150K to $175K per game to all visiting MWC teams. They get that money on top of whatever they earn if they play an additional game under the Hawaii exemption. That is, they aren’t having to use any of their extra game revenue to offset their increased expense of traveling to Hawaii, despite that being the ostensible purpose of the Hawaii exemption. They are allowed to double-dip at Hawaii’s expense.

The same applies for non-football sports in the Big West. Hawaii pays roughly $500 per player in travel subsidies to all visiting Big West teams, except those from the two schools that were not in the conference when Hawaii joined (UC San Diego and Cal State Bakersfield). In basketball, the Big West schools get that money on top of whatever they earn if they play an additional game under the Hawaii exemption, which also applies to basketball. So in non-football sports other than basketball they are made whole, and in basketball they are allowed to double-dip at Hawaii’s expense.

If Hawaii joined the MWC for all sports I’m sure that the non-football travel subsidies currently paid to Big West teams by Hawaii would be redirected to MWC teams. So no MWC school would incur incremental costs, and in fact they would be able to double-dip in basketball just like they already do in football.

As I said above, I don’t expect the MWC to invite Hawaii to join as a full member, but the obstacle is not the cost that MWC teams would incur from the additional travel. Hawaii’s travel subsidy payments would take care of that. The issue is the incremental time and energy they would expend in flying an extra 2,600 miles back and forth across the Pacific. MWC coaches simply don’t want their players or staffs to have to deal with that, even though at most they would only have to take one trip per team per season (unlike Hawaii’s teams, which of course each have to go back and forth over the Pacific many times per season to play all their road games).

I wonder if they could do some creative scheduling. The Big XII volleyball schedule had a round-robin, but half of the visits were for two matches. There are 13 teams (OSU does not sponsor volleyball). Each school plays 6 one-match series, and 6 two-match series for a total of 18 matches.

So let's say you have a Pacific Division with Hawai'i, OSU, the three California schools, and the two Nevada schools; and a Mountain Division with WSU, BSU, USU, CSU, Wyoming, AFA, and UNM. Play two matches against each school in your division, but rather than H-and-H, play them both away or both at home, alternating seasons. Play single matches across the division.

So the Mountain schools would play either four or three road matches against the Pacific schools, in two road trips. There would be a road trip to Hawai'i every other year.

Good suggestion. That's the kind of creative scheduling I had in mind when I posted earlier in the thread that with 14 MWC members it should be possible to minimize travel between Hawaii and the schools east of the Rockies.

(12-10-2023 04:13 PM)shizzle787 Wrote:  Though I think things may be quiet for the rest of 2023, January 2024 will open the realignment door wide open again.

The first move will be New Haven (D2) joining the NEC. Now that the league secured its future with the addition of Chicago State, it can focus on bolstering its ranks. The New Haven add gets the league back to 9.

This move has been circling like a vulture for a bit now and I believe it becomes official in January: UMass to CUSA. This gets the league back to 12 members and secures UMass an all sports home. CUSA decides it is content at 12.

I am also going to put the kibosh on two moves: Gonzaga to the Big 12 and Charleston to the A-10. I'm leaning against either happening: it seems the Big 12 presidents are by and large against Gonzaga, and the reason many gave for Charleston leaving the CAA in the spring is due to by-laws banning postseason participation, but that is no longer the case.

The next move is Fairfield to the CAA. This gets the league back to 14 members and a 7/7 north/south split. It makes sense when factoring in the latest MAAC additions (Sacred Heart and Merrimack).

Later next year in August the next big bomb will drop: though OSU and WSU will try to poach the top of the MW, I believe they will be unsuccessful due to prohibitive MW exit fees. I foresee a merger between the Pac-12 and MW under the Pac-12 banner. Without the Big 12 and Big East as options, Gonzaga finally bites the bullet and joins the Pac-12.

These moves solidify the 9 FBS conferences for the next few years (before the big ACC explosion).

With Gonzaga no longer in the league, the WCC needs at least one school to replace the Zags. An internal battle is fought, but ultimately basketball wins over reputation, and the league invites Grand Canyon to get back to 9 members.

This leaves Division 1 with 364 institutions, 31 conferences, and 135 FBS schools.

The WCC will go all in and add Cal Baptist, Grand Canyon and Seattle.

Seattle is a perfect fit for sure, but the other 2 are questionable. CBU has great facilities, and competitive athletics, but their academics are not on par with the others. They are not horrible, but a clear step below the others. Geographically ideal without question. GCU would face insurmountable resistance from the Presidents, who make these decisions. They would instantly replace Gonzaga as the "face" of the conference, winning everything in all sports and plummeting the academic reputation of the conference. The Presidents, who care far more about academics than athletics, would not want to risk that for a bump up in NET rankings and nominal payout increase.