(12-05-2023 08:37 PM)Side.Show.Joe Wrote:  If this new proposed NCAA subdivision comes to fruition, it will change the math on any new rebuilt PAC. There is a very real possibility that not every program in the AAC and MWC could afford to meet the mandates for compensation or benefits that this new subdivision will require. Perhaps there will be an airport meeting where the more financially strong universities (which would certainly include Washington State & Oregon State, since they are flush with all that PAC exit fee cash) will forge the new PAC conference in this new highest level of college football. At any rate, the stated mandates will almost certainly remove the Sun Belt, C-USA, and MAC from being part of this new subdivision.

And note that the proposal was not a finalized proposal getting ready to vote, but more an effort to get discussions out of "now, don't quote me on this" territory and out into public, so it would seem like the January 2025 meeting before anything could be ready for this, which would be focusing attention on any such "built for the DAC Subdivision" conference on July 2026.

(12-17-2023 08:41 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  As someone else commented on in this thread or another, the always-accurate MHVER3 is saying there are talks for the Big XII to acquire the Pac-12, then to make the Pac-8 our western division. And then a merger with the ACC leftbehinds and realignment to create one conference with three AQ divisions:

https://twitter.com/MHver3/status/1736021724829733355

It is plausible, IMHO. Desirable? IDK.

It would be a Pac 6 plus BYU. That could change with ACC deal, but that is not assured at all.
The SEC wont make the 3 divisions AQ. sorry not happening.

(12-17-2023 11:16 AM)ShoreBuc Wrote:  I think the 2PacMountainWest will grow the G5 to G6 and shrink the P5 down to P4. I also think the new 2PacMountainWest will be poised to dominate the G6 playoff slot if the the P4 does not figure out a way on how to exclude non Power teams in new playoff format eventually. Still a good chance the P4 consolidates down to P2 or just 64 teams that can afford to pay NIL to their entire athletic departments rosters in all sports including women's sports

It will be a G5 not 6. One of MWC/Pac will not exist the other will be G5. I agree the new conf will be the top of G5 with AAC #2.

(12-17-2023 11:20 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(12-17-2023 11:11 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  

(12-17-2023 08:41 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  As someone else commented on in this thread or another, the always-accurate MHVER3 ...

Yeah… there aren’t even 8 western schools unless SDSU is added. ...

4Cs + Pac-2 + BYU + one more, I'd guess --> Pac-8 division. SDSU could be the one more.

MHVER3 says CU there only temporarily, until switching back to the Big 8 or 12 division. So another would be needed too, but more difficult to ID. I'd argue for UNM, Air Force, or CSU, if it is not SMU.

Well, I'd love it if we got grouped in with the 4C and PAC2. I would say AFA to put all three service academies in the conference but Memphis would likely be a better choice.

They are gonna need a lot of teams.

(12-05-2023 06:18 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(12-04-2023 03:44 PM)Realignment Wrote:  I still think it goes...

Pac-12 West
Boise State
Fresno State
Oregon State
San Diego State
UNLV
Washington State

Pac-12 East
Colorado State
Memphis
Rice
Tulane
Utah State
UTSA

That makes the most sense to me.

AFA over Utah St. Even better if AFA is football only paired with Wichita St.

Would be fine adding Hawaii(FB) with Gonzaga in the West. A conference with SDSU, Memphis, Wichita St. would be very attractive for Gonzaga, especially seeing how well the MWC is doing this year in the sport. Could pair that with Navy(FB)/Wichita St. with AFA or Utah St. as full members.

If only Wichita was still good. They're a solid program with history in a few eras but they are hardly elite. Gonzaga wouldn't care about adding them. Now if you somehow convinced Virginia Commonwealth to come as well (and why would they leave a relatively regional and typically better conference of basketball focused schools for a West Coast centric, far flung mess?) then the Zags might come (maybe they bring along St. Mary's but they won't be good once Bennett leaves and sometimes, like this year, aren't even good with him).

(12-15-2023 05:33 PM)johnintx Wrote:  

(12-15-2023 05:17 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  It’s being reported that the stay has been lifted so all assets will go to the PAC2. Not sure what their next step is. Do they take their money to the Big 12 for an all-in play, or poach the AAC and some MWC schools?

If these are the options, they are better off trying to go all-in to get into the B12 than rebuilding the Pac with MWC and AAC schools. No matter what a rebuilt Pac looks like, the new B12 will be better.

Very true, and that's what I have been hoping that they will do. Take a friend (San Diego State) too? Sure, fine with me. But rebuilding the Pac 12 instead of joining the Big XII?? Lunacy!!

Sent from my SM-G990U using Tapatalk

Oregon State and Washinton State are rebuilding nothing. They will join the MWC in all sports but Football for 2024-25 and join in Football in 2026 (perfect timing for MWC next TV contract). They are interested in one thing only in keeping the fiction of the Pac-12 zombie-state alive for two years; maximizing the money they can extract from the corpse, especially the CFP money. They clearly feel the MBB credits are not worth independence in other sports, although they will try to claim those as well, even after joining another conference in basketball and other Olympic sports.

Nothing they are doing is for San Diego State or any other schools' benefit than themselves.

(12-17-2023 11:20 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(12-17-2023 11:11 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  

(12-17-2023 08:41 AM)PlayBall! Wrote:  As someone else commented on in this thread or another, the always-accurate MHVER3 ...

Yeah… there aren’t even 8 western schools unless SDSU is added. ...

4Cs + Pac-2 + BYU + one more, I'd guess --> Pac-8 division. SDSU could be the one more.

MHVER3 says CU there only temporarily, until switching back to the Big 8 or 12 division. So another would be needed too, but more difficult to ID. I'd argue for UNM, Air Force, or CSU, if it is not SMU.

LIKE ^^^

PAC/B12/ACC

PAC 2 + 4Cs + (Cal/Stanford) = PAC 8
CO ===> B12
PAC 7 + BYU = PAC 8
PAC 8 + MWC West (6) = PAC 14

ACC (18) - 4 (FSU/Clemson/UNC/NCST) = ACC (14)
ACC - SMU ===> B12 = ACC - 5 = ACC (13)
ACC - 2 (Cal/Stanford) = ACC (11)
ACC + 3 (Cincinnati/WVU/UCF) = ACC (14)

B12 (16) - 4Cs = B12 (12)
Switch BYU for CO...
B12 + SMU = B12 (13)
B12 + Rice = B12 (14)

(12-17-2023 09:20 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Oregon State and Washinton State are rebuilding nothing. They will join the MWC in all sports but Football for 2024-25 and join in Football in 2026 (perfect timing for MWC next TV contract). They are interested in one thing only in keeping the fiction of the Pac-12 zombie-state alive for two years; maximizing the money they can extract from the corpse, especially the CFP money. They clearly feel the MBB credits are not worth independence in other sports, although they will try to claim those as well, even after joining another conference in basketball and other Olympic sports.

Nothing they are doing is for San Diego State or any other schools' benefit than themselves.

I don’t think this will happen for a couple reasons:

1) I think the MWC want to get rid of the Boise deal and WSU and OSU aren’t joining with the Boise deal.

2) the permanent rivals are not really something that the west schools would want. Fresno, Boise, SDSU and SJSU all want to play one another and WSU and OSU will want access to CA.


Therefore I see a reverse merger and pulling in the Texas schools is key to moving forward.

West will be in my opinion
WSU, OSU, Boise, UNLV, Fresno, SDSU, Hawaii/Gonzaga, SJSU


East will be in my opinion
Colorado State, Air Force/Wichita State, New Mexico, Memphis, Tulane, UTSA, UNT, Rice

(12-19-2023 02:05 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(12-17-2023 09:20 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Oregon State and Washinton State are rebuilding nothing. They will join the MWC in all sports but Football for 2024-25 and join in Football in 2026 (perfect timing for MWC next TV contract). They are interested in one thing only in keeping the fiction of the Pac-12 zombie-state alive for two years; maximizing the money they can extract from the corpse, especially the CFP money. They clearly feel the MBB credits are not worth independence in other sports, although they will try to claim those as well, even after joining another conference in basketball and other Olympic sports.

Nothing they are doing is for San Diego State or any other schools' benefit than themselves.

I don’t think this will happen for a couple reasons:

1) I think the MWC want to get rid of the Boise deal and WSU and OSU aren’t joining with the Boise deal.

2) the permanent rivals are not really something that the west schools would want. Fresno, Boise, SDSU and SJSU all want to play one another and WSU and OSU will want access to CA.


Therefore I see a reverse merger and pulling in the Texas schools is key to moving forward.

West will be in my opinion
WSU, OSU, Boise, UNLV, Fresno, SDSU, Hawaii/Gonzaga, SJSU


East will be in my opinion
Colorado State, Air Force/Wichita State, New Mexico, Memphis, Tulane, UTSA, UNT, Rice

I think it would be easier to just go to 20 than fight the legal battles that would ensue from leaving behind Nevada, Utah State and Wyoming. Nevada and Utah State would go to the West, Wyoming to the east, and one more school (pick ‘em) could be added in the east.

Also where would Air Force put non-football sports?

(12-17-2023 09:20 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Oregon State and Washinton State are rebuilding nothing. They will join the MWC in all sports but Football for 2024-25 and join in Football in 2026 (perfect timing for MWC next TV contract). They are interested in one thing only in keeping the fiction of the Pac-12 zombie-state alive for two years; maximizing the money they can extract from the corpse, especially the CFP money. They clearly feel the MBB credits are not worth independence in other sports, although they will try to claim those as well, even after joining another conference in basketball and other Olympic sports.

Nothing they are doing is for San Diego State or any other schools' benefit than themselves.

There are those commenters who were wearing rose colored glasses regarding the PAC2, and on the other extreeme, your predictions have been reliably worse than what actually happens to the PAC2, so your reading that the PAC2 is joining another conference rather than striking additional scheduling agreements suggests that the PAC2 are, indeed, going to be striking additional scheduling agreements and will collect the PAC2 legacy unit income as would be their right according to the black letter reading of the NCAA bylaws.

(12-19-2023 02:17 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(12-17-2023 09:20 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Oregon State and Washinton State are rebuilding nothing. They will join the MWC in all sports but Football for 2024-25 and join in Football in 2026 (perfect timing for MWC next TV contract). They are interested in one thing only in keeping the fiction of the Pac-12 zombie-state alive for two years; maximizing the money they can extract from the corpse, especially the CFP money. They clearly feel the MBB credits are not worth independence in other sports, although they will try to claim those as well, even after joining another conference in basketball and other Olympic sports.

Nothing they are doing is for San Diego State or any other schools' benefit than themselves.

There are those commenters who were wearing rose colored glasses regarding the PAC2, and on the other extreeme, your predictions have been reliably worse than what actually happens to the PAC2, so your reading that the PAC2 is joining another conference rather than striking additional scheduling agreements suggests that the PAC2 are, indeed, going to be striking additional scheduling agreements and will collect the PAC2 legacy unit income as would be their right according to the black letter reading of the NCAA bylaws.

Have you and I been watching the same saga? This has been an unmitigated disaster for the PAC and things aren't going to get better.
No media deal. 2PAC publicly rejected for membership from not only other Power conferences, but even two G5s. Less than 9 months until the fall season starts and no schedule for anything other than FB. No autobids for any sport. FB schedule only exists because "Power" teams paid a G5 roughly $2M for each pair of home and homes. When's the last time a P5 paid a G5 anything for a H&H, much less one of the highest checks ever?
If someone had predicted the above would be the aftermath of USC/UCLA leaving you'd be laughed off the board.
Sure, 2PAC will get the MBB credits and per team CFP money for 2 years, but they're most definitely going to spend more than that pretending to be a conference.

(12-19-2023 02:50 PM)clunk Wrote:  ... Have you and I been watching the same saga? This has been an unmitigated disaster for the PAC and things aren't going to get better.

I never said things were going well, I was just noting that things have been going in between what the most optimistic predictions have been saying and what the most pessimistic predictions have been saying.

Quote: Sure, 2PAC will get the MBB credits and per team CFP money for 2 years, ...

And you can find confident predictions over the past football season that neither of those things would end up happening.

(12-19-2023 03:20 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(12-19-2023 02:50 PM)clunk Wrote:  ... Have you and I been watching the same saga? This has been an unmitigated disaster for the PAC and things aren't going to get better.

I never said things were going well, I was just noting that things have been going in between what the most optimistic predictions have been saying and what the most pessimistic predictions have been saying.

On a scale of 1-100, a score of 2 is still between best and worst. 1 might look like the 10 getting control, disbanding the conference, taking equal distributions, and leaving WOSU as true independents. That hasn't happened so yes, it's above the most pessimistic.

Quote:

Quote: Sure, 2PAC will get the MBB credits and per team CFP money for 2 years, ...

And you can find confident predictions over the past football season that neither of those things would end up happening.

Sure about that? I haven't seen anybody claim the BB credits weren't there as long as they stayed a conference. I've been vocal that there was no way they were getting the $80M conf CFP, which has turned out to be true. Some chance the per school payout is in trouble if neither WOSU is bowl eligible but that legal fight probably isn't worth it.
Whether the costs of getting this money outweighs the cash itself is in question, but that's different than saying they won't get it.

IMO, the fan bases of OS and WS have a rapacious mindset. They think the world owes them something because they frittered away 100 years in a Power conference without ever building their brands so as to be valuable elsewhere.

So IMO, they will pressure their schools to hold out for the best situation possible, meaning to strip the MW and the AAC for the most valuable members. If that results in "leftover" schools in the MW and AAC being stranded, like OS and WS are now, these fan bases could care less. It is all about Them, I think.

So I do not agree with those who think it inevitable that the PAC2 will absorb the entire MW, etc. They may end up doing that, but only if all better options are exhausted.

And IMO of course even if they do that, they will be angling to abandon this new PAC and join the ACC or B12 at earliest opportunity.

I have no idea why some have cheered on WS and OS in their various maneuverings and wish them well. They have no sympathy from me, LOL.

Not that they care, LOL.

(12-19-2023 02:12 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(12-19-2023 02:05 PM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(12-17-2023 09:20 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Oregon State and Washinton State are rebuilding nothing. They will join the MWC in all sports but Football for 2024-25 and join in Football in 2026 (perfect timing for MWC next TV contract). They are interested in one thing only in keeping the fiction of the Pac-12 zombie-state alive for two years; maximizing the money they can extract from the corpse, especially the CFP money. They clearly feel the MBB credits are not worth independence in other sports, although they will try to claim those as well, even after joining another conference in basketball and other Olympic sports.

Nothing they are doing is for San Diego State or any other schools' benefit than themselves.

I don’t think this will happen for a couple reasons:

1) I think the MWC want to get rid of the Boise deal and WSU and OSU aren’t joining with the Boise deal.

2) the permanent rivals are not really something that the west schools would want. Fresno, Boise, SDSU and SJSU all want to play one another and WSU and OSU will want access to CA.


Therefore I see a reverse merger and pulling in the Texas schools is key to moving forward.

West will be in my opinion
WSU, OSU, Boise, UNLV, Fresno, SDSU, Hawaii/Gonzaga, SJSU


East will be in my opinion
Colorado State, Air Force/Wichita State, New Mexico, Memphis, Tulane, UTSA, UNT, Rice

I think it would be easier to just go to 20 than fight the legal battles that would ensue from leaving behind Nevada, Utah State and Wyoming. Nevada and Utah State would go to the West, Wyoming to the east, and one more school (pick ‘em) could be added in the east.

Also where would Air Force put non-football sports?

Edit:

Quote:1) I think the MWC want to get rid of the Boise deal and WSU and OSU aren’t joining with the Boise deal.

2) the permanent rivals are not really something that the west schools would want. Fresno, Boise, SDSU and SJSU all want to play one another and WSU and OSU will want access to CA.

Therefore I see a reverse merger and pulling in the Texas schools is key to moving forward.

LIKE ^^^

Quote:I think it would be easier to just go to 20 than fight the legal battles that would ensue from leaving behind Nevada, Utah State and Wyoming.

PAC 2 + MWC= nPAC (14)
>invites NMSU & UTEP to get to 16 members in the spirit of the WAC 16...bringing back the ghosts of realignment past...lol
>invites UTSA, UNT, Rice, TXST to get to 20...if applicable...

UNM & NMSU can play a rivalry/trophy game for the pee bucket trophy giving the winning team the right to pee on the other's field logo for that year...lol

(12-19-2023 03:43 PM)clunk Wrote:  

(12-19-2023 03:20 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

Quote: Sure, 2PAC will get the MBB credits and per team CFP money for 2 years, ...

And you can find confident predictions over the past football season that neither of those things would end up happening.

Sure about that? I haven't seen anybody claim the BB credits weren't there as long as they stayed a conference.

I have indeed seen claims over this past season claims that the NCAA would never give the PAC2 the PAC NCAA credits. I have quoted the NCAA multi-sport division grace period bylaw to dispute those claims.

Quote: I've been vocal that there was no way they were getting the $80M conf CFP, which has turned out to be true.

Yes, that would have been over on the rose colored glasses side I referred to.

Quote: Some chance the per school payout is in trouble if neither WOSU is bowl eligible but that legal fight probably isn't worth it.

The biggest cost of the legal fight would have been the time delay, since if they were going to fight in court to remove the need to get the PAC's sign-off for the early CFP12 move, they would need to get that won, and appeals exhausted, soon enough for the CFP12 to then be put together for next year.

Quote: Whether the costs of getting this money outweighs the cash itself is in question, but that's different than saying they won't get it.

The challenge for a western conference looking to squeeze all of the juice from the PAC legacy unit revenue into its own glass is that unlike the FBS football, between the MWC, WCC and Big West, there are three Olympic Sports conferences in the West that the PAC2 can do scheduling deals with.