Smart move on their part, it would be nice for the SBC as a whole if they got into a NY6 Bowl this year.

NCAA hasn't been very receptive to such requests lately.

But I strenuously object, your honor!

LMAO. This is desperate and DOA.

2nd year transitioning teams play a full fbs schedule. It's silly (IMO) to block them from the post season if they reach bowl eligibility just because. Both JMU and Jax St should be allowed the post season.

I think JMU has done enough that we can say they didn't "transition." They jumped right in. Even in "year 1" they had:

85 schollies, check
Full FBS schedule, check
Considered an FBS win/loss on opponents's schedule, check
>15,000 home attendance, check
Some of the best faciltiies in G5
An athletics budget that is off the charts for a G5

Same in year two and going forward. They've done everything they're supposed to do and more. The transition is meant to help FCS schools move up a few steps at a time. JMU (with help from their conference mates on scheduling) did it all before Day 1. No transitioning needed. They're here and they're performing at a top level. They're seeking a waiver in acknowledgement of that fact. If that waiver is denied, why have a waiver process? The only technical reason to deny is "just because."

It doesn't hurt to ask. The worst that can happen is the NCAA says "No", but at least they're trying.

I don't see JMU getting an exception here. It's still worth the effort though.

I don't understand why the rule exists.

Someone tried to explain tell me that the rule works both ways. So if a FBS team transitioned to FCS, they are also post season banned. The NCAA recognizes the FBS and FCS both as Div1. So the rule works both ways because the NCAA wants to treat the FCS and FBS equally. (Still not sure if that makes sense because every writer I have ever seen refers to the FCS to FBS transition as a "move up")

I've seen others argue the rule exists to avoid flip flopping between FBS and FCS in good seasons and bad seasons. (This still doesn't make sense because the financial costs of transitioning are probably pretty extreme)

(11-07-2023 12:33 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  2nd year transitioning teams play a full fbs schedule. It's silly (IMO) to block them from the post season if they reach bowl eligibility just because. Both JMU and Jax St should be allowed the post season.

Yeah Jax State should be on board with this because it could also help them play for a CUSA Championship this season potentially too.

This is the last polite request from JMU. If the NCAA denies this again, it won't be long before our AG files suit against the NCAA. They need to explain why we didn't get the waiver, but they won't know because there wasn't a logical reason.

Honest question:

What are the consequences of ignoring the NCAA here? If a bowl invited them what happens if they just accept and play?

(11-07-2023 12:51 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  I don't understand why the rule exists.

Someone tried to explain tell me that the rule works both ways. So if a FBS team transitioned to FCS, they are also post season banned. The NCAA recognizes the FBS and FCS both as Div1. So the rule works both ways because the NCAA wants to treat the FCS and FBS equally. (Still not sure if that makes sense because every writer I have ever seen refers to the FCS to FBS transition as a "move up")

When Idaho dropped down to FCS from FBS they were eligible for the FCS playoffs immediately because they met the scholarship limits right away

https://www.underdogdynasty.com/2016/4/2...8-sun-belt

That's why the transition rule is silly. If the team isn't good enough to make a bowl, they won't have a record to qualify to make a bowl. And with conference tie ins, the conference is penalizing itself by not making JMU eligible. A Sunbelt team would theoretically be bumped if JMU was eligible for a bowl.

(11-07-2023 12:50 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  It doesn't hurt to ask. The worst that can happen is the NCAA says "No", but at least they're trying.

I don't see JMU getting an exception here. It's still worth the effort though.

I agree, no harm in asking.

IMO, the JMU situation is arguably a case where a rule that is a good one in a general sense is failing in a particular case. JMU should get the waiver, but they probably won't.

(11-07-2023 01:07 PM)Dukes_Royals Wrote:  This is the last polite request from JMU. If the NCAA denies this again, it won't be long before our AG files suit against the NCAA. They need to explain why we didn't get the waiver, but they won't know because there wasn't a logical reason.

Good. I see no compelling reason to keep JMU out of a bowl game, let alone the Sun Belt CCG and the NY6, if they earn the ranking.

NCAA used to have a limit of 25 "initial counters", or how many recruits you can add per year. That meant it was effectively impossible to go from FCS 63 to FBS 85 schollies when you include normal graduation. The 2 year rule made some amount of sense then.
Now you have unlimited recruiting, instant transfers from the portal, and extra covid year players. NCAA updated some rules but not the downstream rules those changes affected. JMU has earned a bowl game.

(11-07-2023 01:15 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(11-07-2023 01:07 PM)Dukes_Royals Wrote:  This is the last polite request from JMU. If the NCAA denies this again, it won't be long before our AG files suit against the NCAA. They need to explain why we didn't get the waiver, but they won't know because there wasn't a logical reason.

Good. I see no compelling reason to keep JMU out of a bowl game, let alone the Sun Belt CCG and the NY6, if they earn the ranking.

They knew the rules when they decided to join FBS. It they didnt like the conditions they should have stayed FCS.

(11-07-2023 01:07 PM)Dukes_Royals Wrote:  This is the last polite request from JMU. If the NCAA denies this again, it won't be long before our AG files suit against the NCAA. They need to explain why we didn't get the waiver, but they won't know because there wasn't a logical reason.

There's no logical reason for them to give a waiver.

You may not like the rule, but it is a rule and has been consistently applied.
A lawsuit would just be wasting your taxpayer money.

I hope it works. JMU deserves a shot, and it will set a precident. Dumb rule anyway. Hope it works out for yall.

I think the NCAA should follow the existing rules that JMU signed up for. But update the rule for the future, citing the JMU situation an example of what they want to avoid happening going forward.

That way everyone in the same situation going forward can go bowling, and JMU can have the credit for helping make it happen for the other schools. They can name it the Dukes Flukes Exception or something. It’s a win win.

That way other schools won’t have to wait and see how their seasons turn out before beginning the process of complaining about how unfair the rule is. You know, the rule that was in place when they signed up.

(11-07-2023 02:14 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-07-2023 01:07 PM)Dukes_Royals Wrote:  This is the last polite request from JMU. If the NCAA denies this again, it won't be long before our AG files suit against the NCAA. They need to explain why we didn't get the waiver, but they won't know because there wasn't a logical reason.

There's no logical reason for them to give a waiver.

You may not like the rule, but it is a rule and has been consistently applied.
A lawsuit would just be wasting your taxpayer money.

Then what is the waiver process for. JMU has transitioned like none other and if a waiver process exists it is for this exact reason. Otherwise the waiver process was a sham.

And illegal contracts can get thrown out. That is the route the VA AG will go. Not the we are special route, but that the rule was illegal to begin with route and that opens the NCAA up to possible suits from other schools they screwed over. The waiver allows the NCAA to get out clean.