(11-05-2023 01:59 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  ... but as for Cincy I think if Fickell were still there he’d be guiding them to a 7 or 8 win season.

Ditto -- UC, if they didn't lose their coach, etc., would have been very competitive this year.

Next year, with the addition of the 4C, will be interesting.

(11-05-2023 10:20 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(11-05-2023 01:59 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  ... but as for Cincy I think if Fickell were still there he’d be guiding them to a 7 or 8 win season.

Ditto -- UC, if they didn't lose their coach, etc., would have been very competitive this year.

Next year, with the addition of the 4C, will be interesting.

It’ll be a solid league. Despite the B1G and SEC, I think the XII will have 4-6 ranked teams every week.

(11-05-2023 10:51 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(11-05-2023 10:20 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(11-05-2023 01:59 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  ... but as for Cincy I think if Fickell were still there he’d be guiding them to a 7 or 8 win season.

Ditto -- UC, if they didn't lose their coach, etc., would have been very competitive this year.

Next year, with the addition of the 4C, will be interesting.

It’ll be a solid league. Despite the B1G and SEC, I think the XII will have 4-6 ranked teams every week.

I'm intrigued to see how UArizona and CU perform next year. I think we all know what Utah is going to do with a healthy Cam Rising. Throw those 3 into the mix with the current meat grinder, give the 4 new programs from this year another year to build/progress/recruit, and things could be very interesting in the Big 12 next year.

ASU might not get to travel to WV, but I'm pretty sure their AD won't want to travel to ANY Big 12 road games next year...

(11-05-2023 10:51 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(11-05-2023 10:20 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(11-05-2023 01:59 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  ... but as for Cincy I think if Fickell were still there he’d be guiding them to a 7 or 8 win season.

Ditto -- UC, if they didn't lose their coach, etc., would have been very competitive this year.

Next year, with the addition of the 4C, will be interesting.

It’ll be a solid league. Despite the B1G and SEC, I think the XII will have 4-6 ranked teams every week.

That means nothing ultimately. The only rankings that matter are being top 4 in the CFP.

(11-05-2023 07:23 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

(11-04-2023 10:14 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  The top of the G5 is miles better than the weakest P5.

The weakest P5 would still be a 7-8 win team in a G5 conference.

Cincy is 0-6 in Big 12 conference play
UCF is 1-5 in Big 12 conference play

These teams were very recently the top of the G5.

The gap is larger than you think.

Though this year, according to the Massey Composite, the median B12 "newcomer" is 73.5, and while there is only one incumbent B12 team below that level (Baylor), there are also four ACC teams (Wake Forest, Syracuse, Pitt & UVA), four B10 teams (NWU, Indiana, Michigan State and Purdue), three P12 teams (Cal, Stanford and ASU), and one SEC team (Vandy), so while they slotted in toward the bottom of the P5, they didn't slot into a gap between the bottom of the P5 and the top of the Go5.

And of course, it's college football. The lowest ranked of the four Big12 newcomers is UC, which became "one of the top Go5 teams" under Luke Fickell, but Luke Fickell is now in his second season coaching at Purdue.

___________________

(11-06-2023 07:28 AM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(11-05-2023 10:51 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(11-05-2023 10:20 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  ... Next year, with the addition of the 4C, will be interesting.

It’ll be a solid league. Despite the B1G and SEC, I think the XII will have 4-6 ranked teams every week.

That means nothing ultimately. The only rankings that matter are being top 4 in the CFP.

The comment was about next year, when being top 4 in the CFP will no longer be "the only thing that matters"

(11-05-2023 07:23 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

(11-04-2023 10:14 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  The top of the G5 is miles better than the weakest P5.

The weakest P5 would still be a 7-8 win team in a G5 conference.

Cincy is 0-6 in Big 12 conference play
UCF is 1-5 in Big 12 conference play

These teams were very recently the top of the G5.

The gap is larger than you think.

I tend to agree, but UCF and Cincy today are not the teams they were when on top of the G5.

(11-06-2023 07:28 AM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(11-05-2023 10:51 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(11-05-2023 10:20 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(11-05-2023 01:59 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  ... but as for Cincy I think if Fickell were still there he’d be guiding them to a 7 or 8 win season.

Ditto -- UC, if they didn't lose their coach, etc., would have been very competitive this year.

Next year, with the addition of the 4C, will be interesting.

It’ll be a solid league. Despite the B1G and SEC, I think the XII will have 4-6 ranked teams every week.

That means nothing ultimately. The only rankings that matter are being top 4 in the CFP.

Top-12 next year, with a likely bye to the NY quarterfinal bowl for the conference champion.

(11-07-2023 01:12 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 07:28 AM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(11-05-2023 10:51 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(11-05-2023 10:20 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  

(11-05-2023 01:59 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  ... but as for Cincy I think if Fickell were still there he’d be guiding them to a 7 or 8 win season.

Ditto -- UC, if they didn't lose their coach, etc., would have been very competitive this year.

Next year, with the addition of the 4C, will be interesting.

It’ll be a solid league. Despite the B1G and SEC, I think the XII will have 4-6 ranked teams every week.

That means nothing ultimately. The only rankings that matter are being top 4 in the CFP.

Top-12 next year, with a likely bye to the NY quarterfinal bowl for the conference champion.

Top 12, not top 25 or whatever ranking some folks around here worship.

(11-07-2023 02:01 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(11-07-2023 01:12 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 07:28 AM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(11-05-2023 10:51 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(11-05-2023 10:20 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  Ditto -- UC, if they didn't lose their coach, etc., would have been very competitive this year.

Next year, with the addition of the 4C, will be interesting.

It’ll be a solid league. Despite the B1G and SEC, I think the XII will have 4-6 ranked teams every week.

That means nothing ultimately. The only rankings that matter are being top 4 in the CFP.

Top-12 next year, with a likely bye to the NY quarterfinal bowl for the conference champion.

Top 12, not top 25 or whatever ranking some folks around here worship.

I can see why you would think being ranked in the T-25 is meaningless. You’re a UTEP fan after all so you don’t have much experience with the rankings. Don’t worry man that’s not your fault.

(11-05-2023 06:04 AM)PicksUp Wrote:  Some records of note

2014-2022

Rutgers vs
FCS 6-0
G5 9-2

Vanderbilt vs
FCS 7-1
G5 14-4

Kansas vs
FCS 6-2
G5 3-8


Appalachian St vs
P5 3-9

Boise St vs
P5 7-8

San Diego St vs
P5 7-8

Memphis vs
P5 6-9

You also have to remember that the P5 sets the terms for OOC games: Whom they play, and where (mostly home). So like, Boise State has played 5 home games out of those 15.

P5's don't schedule teams they think they'll lose to. And G5s take what they can get.

(11-04-2023 09:14 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  UCF is both

We were the top of the G5 in 2017 and 2018.
We are now the bottom of the P5, 1-5 in Big 12 Conference Play this season.

Give it a couple of years man LOL. Thats ridiculous. If in 2-3 years UCF is still struggling fine, but in no world will UCF be there and a partial conference season isn't fair to judge!

If you're going to compare top of the G5 vs bottom of the P5: You need to compare roughly the same records comparatively speaking -- not in total P5 / G5 wins against each other as a whole.

It's obvious that the top 10 of the G5 is going to be better than the bottom 10 of the P5. But it's hard to find games of the upper tier of G5 vs bottom level of P5, while also including wins of better than bottom of P5 (since one assumes it's "not as good"). I include BYU. That year in 2014, BYU also lost to 4 G5s as their only losses, so yeah, I'm including them.

Here's 2014. I'm not only looking at teams the top G5, just the Better G5s (8W+) that year who played the bottom of the P5 (3W or less), or a better P5 if it's a win. I'm using reg-season records, not including bowl, but will include conf champ game W/L, if applicable (so just because they have 13 games doesn't mean it includes a bowl game).

2014:
LA-Tech (8-5) beats Illinois (6-6) 35-18
BYU (8-4) beat @Texas (6-6) 41-7
BYU (8-4) beat @California (5-7) 42-35
ECU (8-4) beat North Carolina (6-6) 70-41
Toledo (8-4) Lost to @Iowa State (2-10) 37-30
WMU (8-4) Lost to @Purdue (3-9) 43-34
UtSt (9-4) beat Wake Forest (3-9) 36-24
CSU (10-2) beat Colorado (2-10) 31-17
CSU (10-2) beat @Boston College (7-5) 24-21
NIU (11-2) beat @Northwestern (5-7) 23-15

If you want to include the "Top" you'd definitely at least go 9W+. That year, no 9W+ team lost to even an under .500 team of the P5.

*NIU and Utah St both did lose to 6-6 SEC teams handily; but again, that's not the bottom of the P5.
*GA-Southern at 9-3 lost by 1 to NC-State who was 7-5, and lost by 4 to GA-Tech who was 10-3; obviously this also doesn't apply to the hypothesis that Top G5 isn't as good as Bottom P5.
*Houston at 7-5 wasn't included because their 8th win came in a bowl, beating 6-6 Pitt.
*BGSU at 7-5 wasn't included because their 8th win came in a bowl, but they earlier beat 4-8 Indiana.


But obviously I'm not going to break down for all years. I just looked at 2014. But I think that sorta rolls with what you'd expect if you're just looking at the Bottom of the P5 vs not even the Top, but even just the Upper part of the G5. Kinda common sense you'd chose the latter.

(11-06-2023 08:21 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(11-05-2023 07:23 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

(11-04-2023 10:14 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  The top of the G5 is miles better than the weakest P5.

The weakest P5 would still be a 7-8 win team in a G5 conference.

Cincy is 0-6 in Big 12 conference play
UCF is 1-5 in Big 12 conference play

These teams were very recently the top of the G5.

The gap is larger than you think.

Though this year, according to the Massey Composite, the median B12 "newcomer" is 73.5, and while there is only one incumbent B12 team below that level (Baylor), there are also four ACC teams (Wake Forest, Syracuse, Pitt & UVA), four B10 teams (NWU, Indiana, Michigan State and Purdue), three P12 teams (Cal, Stanford and ASU), and one SEC team (Vandy), so while they slotted in toward the bottom of the P5, they didn't slot into a gap between the bottom of the P5 and the top of the Go5.

And of course, it's college football. The lowest ranked of the four Big12 newcomers is UC, which became "one of the top Go5 teams" under Luke Fickell, but Luke Fickell is now in his second season coaching at Purdue.

___________________

(11-06-2023 07:28 AM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(11-05-2023 10:51 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(11-05-2023 10:20 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  ... Next year, with the addition of the 4C, will be interesting.

It’ll be a solid league. Despite the B1G and SEC, I think the XII will have 4-6 ranked teams every week.

That means nothing ultimately. The only rankings that matter are being top 4 in the CFP.

The comment was about next year, when being top 4 in the CFP will no longer be "the only thing that matters"

Fickell's at Wisky, not Purdue.

(11-07-2023 02:48 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(11-07-2023 02:01 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(11-07-2023 01:12 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 07:28 AM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(11-05-2023 10:51 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  It’ll be a solid league. Despite the B1G and SEC, I think the XII will have 4-6 ranked teams every week.

That means nothing ultimately. The only rankings that matter are being top 4 in the CFP.

Top-12 next year, with a likely bye to the NY quarterfinal bowl for the conference champion.

Top 12, not top 25 or whatever ranking some folks around here worship.

I can see why you would think being ranked in the T-25 is meaningless. You’re a UTEP fan after all so you don’t have much experience with the rankings. Don’t worry man that’s not your fault.

You remember 2009? Your team came into El Paso with their big bad ranking and left with a huge L.

(11-08-2023 11:29 AM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(11-07-2023 02:48 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(11-07-2023 02:01 PM)PicksUp Wrote:  

(11-07-2023 01:12 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 07:28 AM)PicksUp Wrote:  That means nothing ultimately. The only rankings that matter are being top 4 in the CFP.

Top-12 next year, with a likely bye to the NY quarterfinal bowl for the conference champion.

Top 12, not top 25 or whatever ranking some folks around here worship.

I can see why you would think being ranked in the T-25 is meaningless. You’re a UTEP fan after all so you don’t have much experience with the rankings. Don’t worry man that’s not your fault.

You remember 2009? Your team came into El Paso with their big bad ranking and left with a huge L.

Lol well played

BYU, UCF, Cinci, and Hou don't appear to have the quality of teams this season as they have in the past. And despite poor conference records, they've produced some very close games. Cinci lost to Miami of OH, Houston lost to Rice, and UCF nearly lost to a bad Boise team. These games indicate a dip in quality regardless of G5/P5.

BYU is about what would be expected, but they will likely improve. The B12 newbies are being hit with a combo of improved average quality of opponents AND having less than stellar squads this year. I expect all four will adjust and compete at a higher level within a few seasons. Never forget that Utah and TCU left their G5 conference to go on and eventually do well and win conf championships at the P5 level.