(11-01-2023 08:17 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(11-01-2023 07:21 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(11-01-2023 02:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  https://clutchpoints.com/florida-state-f...ent-rumors

It doesn't mean they will or won't move, but it does mean it won't involve independence.

Florida State to the SEC with the Magnificiant Seven it is then.

The Magnificent 7 plus…Kansas? For 24.

East: Clemson, Miami, North Carolina, North Carolina St, Virginia, Virginia Tech
South: Alabama, Auburn, Florida St, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St
Southeast: Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Southwest: Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

If that happens...maybe Boise will play the Micron Card to Syracuse to help them into the ACC?

(11-01-2023 08:17 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(11-01-2023 07:21 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(11-01-2023 02:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  https://clutchpoints.com/florida-state-f...ent-rumors

It doesn't mean they will or won't move, but it does mean it won't involve independence.

Florida State to the SEC with the Magnificiant Seven it is then.

The Magnificent 7 plus…Kansas? For 24.

East: Clemson, Miami, North Carolina, North Carolina St, Virginia, Virginia Tech
South: Alabama, Auburn, Florida St, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St
Southeast: Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Southwest: Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

I'm all for it. However, the BIG will need to expand to 24 as well to keep up. Here's what it'd look like post expansion.

Arizona
Arizona State
California
Colorado
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Maryland
Michigan
Michigan State
Minnesota
Nebraska
Northwestern
Ohio State
Oregon
Penn State
Purdue
Rutgers
Stanford
UCLA
USC
Utah
Washington
Wisconsin

Ryan Baloney with a nothingburger via a twitter “reporter”

So glad I gave them all a click. Keep the 0.00003 cents

(11-01-2023 06:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-01-2023 05:59 PM)XLance Wrote:  Looks like the attempt to get out for only $120 Million is dead.

Perhaps it is a done deal and they are merely waiting for the travel partner to work out their details, and then at a more appropriate time than the disruption of the season, make a joint announcement. :coffee3:https://csnbbs.com/images/smilies/07-coffee3.gif

In order to get out, FSU needs to get an invitation from the P2. At the earliest, maybe the B10 may approach FSU around 2029 when their current media contract expires.

I don’t see FSU going anywhere before 2029. Even in 2029, the B10 may decide to pass or FSU may decide not to challenge the GoR.

(11-01-2023 10:07 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  In order to get out, FSU needs to get an invitation from the P2. At the earliest, maybe the B10 may approach FSU around 2029 when their current media contract expires.

I don’t see FSU going anywhere before 2029. Even in 2029, the B10 may decide to pass or FSU may decide not to challenge the GoR.

A couple of points:

Anyone wanting FSU before about 2034 who isn't a property held by ESPN will pay through the nose as will FSU.

Anyone offering FSU prior to their leaving will be guilty of tortuous interference and sued, so that means if FSU is approached the approaching conference is liable.

If FSU pays their way out, they'll have to negotiate with ESPN and the ACC to arrive at the amount. If ESPN wishes to retain them then they have three advantages in encouraging FSU to depart to the SEC:

1. FSU can keep the ACC contract paid in full contractually and line up a replacement which could generate a bit more revenue either through market reach or brand. If the ACC gains by FSU's departure it makes negotiations easier.

2. ESPN since they pay both the SEC and ACC can spread out FSU's negotiated payments to the ACC members whether for the exit fee, or a negotiated GOR buyback or both. Since there are 12 years remaining on ACC contract and 10 on the SEC's they can withhold 1/10th of the buyout per year and pay it directly to the ACC or ACC member schools. If the Big 10 tries to buy FSU, which they won't, the payment will have to be lump sum by either the Big 10 or FSU. That what won't happen. ESPN isn't giving FOX a way into the state of Florida which will cut ESPN's advertising revenues there.

3. FSU knows these things, as does the ACC. If FSU goes to the Big 10 ESPN isn't covering the loss for the ACC. If they go to the SEC where ESPN holds them until 2032 it is a different story. The SEC won't approach or make an offer until the ACC and ESPN are satisfied with the arrangement.

So, you have the cart before the horse. FSU has to settle with ESPN and the ACC before any conference can offer them a slot. The same was true for Texas and Oklahoma. If FSU is hellbent to leave and willing to join another ESPN conference this can be worked out. If they aren't it won't. If they don't work it out, neither the SEC nor Big 10 will make them offer.

This protracted period of relative silence has likely seen some heavy negotiations. When FSU declared today, they would not seek independence that is a good sign an arrangement looks favorable. If so, then official exchanges of financial documents after a NDA is signed will mean their attorneys and the conference they are seeking to join's attorneys will be hammering out the details. Since ESPN is contracted both ways much of this has likely already been done if they are moving.

Then if someone is moving with them from another conference that has to be worked out and if it is Kansas, FOX will want something in return. And that's where it could get interesting for another ACC school. Or maybe FOX will simply want more of the Big 12, or perhaps ESPN and FOX have some deal ancillary to sports they want to hash out. Or as they like to say a school to be named later, like if the Big 10 wanted Colorado or one or both of the Arizona schools ESPN would agree to cooperate. Who knows, but that's how deals get done. ESPN not bidding on the PAC 12 schools may have been an advanced concession. We won't know, but that's how they work it out between corporations if it is an amicable settlement. If not, FSU may have trouble getting free.

If it is freeing Notre Dame, if the Irish indeed wants to be part of the Big 10, then all of this is just a preliminary to much bigger moves, and that too could be in the works, and we wouldn't know it. So, we wait and see. ESPN and the SEC would like to have, or keep, the Seminoles, I don't care what poppycock you read in the blogs. Florida is twice the market of North Carolina and Virginia combined and that's why they are wanted. With UF they carry 77% of the state's college sports watchers with overlap with each other and the other schools.

If it is just FSU from the ACC and another school from elsewhere this might end quietly, and things could settle down. If N.D. leaves the moves will be large. Which would you prefer?

(11-01-2023 10:58 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-01-2023 10:07 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  In order to get out, FSU needs to get an invitation from the P2. At the earliest, maybe the B10 may approach FSU around 2029 when their current media contract expires.

I don’t see FSU going anywhere before 2029. Even in 2029, the B10 may decide to pass or FSU may decide not to challenge the GoR.

A couple of points:

Anyone wanting FSU before about 2034 who isn't a property held by ESPN will pay through the nose as will FSU.

Anyone offering FSU prior to their leaving will be guilty of tortuous interference and sued, so that means if FSU is approached the approaching conference is liable.

If FSU pays their way out, they'll have to negotiate with ESPN and the ACC to arrive at the amount. If ESPN wishes to retain them then they have three advantages in encouraging FSU to depart to the SEC:

1. FSU can keep the ACC contract paid in full contractually and line up a replacement which could generate a bit more revenue either through market reach or brand. If the ACC gains by FSU's departure it makes negotiations easier.

2. ESPN since they pay both the SEC and ACC can spread out FSU's negotiated payments to the ACC members whether for the exit fee, or a negotiated GOR buyback or both. Since there are 12 years remaining on ACC contract and 10 on the SEC's they can withhold 1/10th of the buyout per year and pay it directly to the ACC or ACC member schools. If the Big 10 tries to buy FSU, which they won't, the payment will have to be lump sum by either the Big 10 or FSU. That what won't happen. ESPN isn't giving FOX a way into the state of Florida which will cut ESPN's advertising revenues there.

3. FSU knows these things, as does the ACC. If FSU goes to the Big 10 ESPN isn't covering the loss for the ACC. If they go to the SEC where ESPN holds them until 2032 it is a different story. The SEC won't approach or make an offer until the ACC and ESPN are satisfied with the arrangement.

So, you have the cart before the horse. FSU has to settle with ESPN and the ACC before any conference can offer them a slot. The same was true for Texas and Oklahoma. If FSU is hellbent to leave and willing to join another ESPN conference this can be worked out. If they aren't it won't. If they don't work it out, neither the SEC nor Big 10 will make them offer.

This protracted period of relative silence has likely seen some heavy negotiations. When FSU declared today, they would not seek independence that is a good sign an arrangement looks favorable. If so, then official exchanges of financial documents after a NDA is signed will mean their attorneys and the conference they are seeking to join's attorneys will be hammering out the details. Since ESPN is contracted both ways much of this has likely already been done if they are moving.

Then if someone is moving with them from another conference that has to be worked out and if it is Kansas, FOX will want something in return. And that's where it could get interesting for another ACC school. Or maybe FOX will simply want more of the Big 12, or perhaps ESPN and FOX have some deal ancillary to sports they want to hash out. Or as they like to say a school to be named later, like if the Big 10 wanted Colorado or one or both of the Arizona schools ESPN would agree to cooperate. Who knows, but that's how deals get done. ESPN not bidding on the PAC 12 schools may have been an advanced concession. We won't know, but that's how they work it out between corporations if it is an amicable settlement. If not, FSU may have trouble getting free.

If it is freeing Notre Dame, if the Irish indeed wants to be part of the Big 10, then all of this is just a preliminary to much bigger moves, and that too could be in the works, and we wouldn't know it. So, we wait and see. ESPN and the SEC would like to have, or keep, the Seminoles, I don't care what poppycock you read in the blogs. Florida is twice the market of North Carolina and Virginia combined and that's why they are wanted. With UF they carry 77% of the state's college sports watchers with overlap with each other and the other schools.

If it is just FSU from the ACC and another school from elsewhere this might end quietly, and things could settle down. If N.D. leaves the moves will be large. Which would you prefer?

There is one scenaro I don't like to think about JR, but it could very well be a possibility. For the record, I actually like FSU and one other, but here is the nightmare ACC scenario, surprisingly not bad for ESPN: what if both Florida State and Notre Dame were freed?? Let's say that ESPN has been anticipating freeing Notre Dame for awhile, but they know what it would do to the ACC. So what do they do??? Move all the pieces they want out of the ACC first, and possibly the Big XII (Kansas) first. Then free Notre Dame and let the chips fall where they may. In this way, ESPN somewhat controls the carnage, which is actually a very smart move on their part.

They just keep on making a lot of noise like our friend here ain't going nowhere

Why would Alford need to communicate this publicly?

Sounds like damage control. Simply establishing guardrails so that everyone understands that FSU needs to be better off if it leaves the ACC. Public rhetoric can easily stir up the fan base in an uncontrollable direction. This is a nuanced statement that is trying to reassert leadership. Alford may just be trying to manage over-aggressive boosters who are good at creating chaos without care for the consequences.

(11-01-2023 10:58 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-01-2023 10:07 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  In order to get out, FSU needs to get an invitation from the P2. At the earliest, maybe the B10 may approach FSU around 2029 when their current media contract expires.

I don’t see FSU going anywhere before 2029. Even in 2029, the B10 may decide to pass or FSU may decide not to challenge the GoR.

A couple of points:

Anyone wanting FSU before about 2034 who isn't a property held by ESPN will pay through the nose as will FSU.

Anyone offering FSU prior to their leaving will be guilty of tortuous interference and sued, so that means if FSU is approached the approaching conference is liable.

If FSU pays their way out, they'll have to negotiate with ESPN and the ACC to arrive at the amount. If ESPN wishes to retain them then they have three advantages in encouraging FSU to depart to the SEC:

1. FSU can keep the ACC contract paid in full contractually and line up a replacement which could generate a bit more revenue either through market reach or brand. If the ACC gains by FSU's departure it makes negotiations easier.

2. ESPN since they pay both the SEC and ACC can spread out FSU's negotiated payments to the ACC members whether for the exit fee, or a negotiated GOR buyback or both. Since there are 12 years remaining on ACC contract and 10 on the SEC's they can withhold 1/10th of the buyout per year and pay it directly to the ACC or ACC member schools. If the Big 10 tries to buy FSU, which they won't, the payment will have to be lump sum by either the Big 10 or FSU. That what won't happen. ESPN isn't giving FOX a way into the state of Florida which will cut ESPN's advertising revenues there.

3. FSU knows these things, as does the ACC. If FSU goes to the Big 10 ESPN isn't covering the loss for the ACC. If they go to the SEC where ESPN holds them until 2032 it is a different story. The SEC won't approach or make an offer until the ACC and ESPN are satisfied with the arrangement.

So, you have the cart before the horse. FSU has to settle with ESPN and the ACC before any conference can offer them a slot. The same was true for Texas and Oklahoma. If FSU is hellbent to leave and willing to join another ESPN conference this can be worked out. If they aren't it won't. If they don't work it out, neither the SEC nor Big 10 will make them offer.

This protracted period of relative silence has likely seen some heavy negotiations. When FSU declared today, they would not seek independence that is a good sign an arrangement looks favorable. If so, then official exchanges of financial documents after a NDA is signed will mean their attorneys and the conference they are seeking to join's attorneys will be hammering out the details. Since ESPN is contracted both ways much of this has likely already been done if they are moving.

Then if someone is moving with them from another conference that has to be worked out and if it is Kansas, FOX will want something in return. And that's where it could get interesting for another ACC school. Or maybe FOX will simply want more of the Big 12, or perhaps ESPN and FOX have some deal ancillary to sports they want to hash out. Or as they like to say a school to be named later, like if the Big 10 wanted Colorado or one or both of the Arizona schools ESPN would agree to cooperate. Who knows, but that's how deals get done. ESPN not bidding on the PAC 12 schools may have been an advanced concession. We won't know, but that's how they work it out between corporations if it is an amicable settlement. If not, FSU may have trouble getting free.

If it is freeing Notre Dame, if the Irish indeed wants to be part of the Big 10, then all of this is just a preliminary to much bigger moves, and that too could be in the works, and we wouldn't know it. So, we wait and see. ESPN and the SEC would like to have, or keep, the Seminoles, I don't care what poppycock you read in the blogs. Florida is twice the market of North Carolina and Virginia combined and that's why they are wanted. With UF they carry 77% of the state's college sports watchers with overlap with each other and the other schools.

If it is just FSU from the ACC and another school from elsewhere this might end quietly, and things could settle down. If N.D. leaves the moves will be large. Which would you prefer?

That's a pretty tall order JR.
There are not very many schools out there that could generate more revenue for the ACC than FSU does.
Certainly the SEC doesn't want to give up any school.
There isn't a single school in the Big 12 that could fit that bill (especially if Kansas is headed to the SEC).
From the B1G, you would have to be talking about Penn State in order to truly benefit the ACC.
If it were Notre Dame, would the additional 3/8 actually make up the loss of FSU?

Just out of curiosity, JR, which school(s) did you have in mind for FSU to line up as possible replacements?

(11-01-2023 03:32 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-01-2023 03:11 PM)surrealpirate Wrote:  Was anyone really thinking independence was a realistic option for FSU?

People have talked about it.

But other than on fan boards, that isn't a real option. While we could set up a decent schedule, it is much more difficult to find teams to play from mid October til the weekend before Thanksgiving as shown by BYU. Also, there is no guarantee that FSU alone gets ACC money, much less SEC money since there isn't a measuring stick out there in the modern college football landscape (Notre Dame doesn't count because they're a unicorn from a football POV and there are no conferences to give FSU a Notre Dame deal to fill out the schedule that are better than the current ACC.)

(11-02-2023 03:25 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Why would Alford need to communicate this publicly?

Sounds like damage control. Simply establishing guardrails so that everyone understands that FSU needs to be better off if it leaves the ACC. Public rhetoric can easily stir up the fan base in an uncontrollable direction. This is a nuanced statement that is trying to reassert leadership. Alford may just be trying to manage over-aggressive boosters who are good at creating chaos without care for the consequences.

Deep Pocketed Booster said "let's just become an Independent and make more money like Notre Dame!"

Deep Pocketed Booster has no idea how any of this works, but is influential. So Alford answers a cub reporter on payroll or something.

(11-01-2023 10:58 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-01-2023 10:07 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  In order to get out, FSU needs to get an invitation from the P2. At the earliest, maybe the B10 may approach FSU around 2029 when their current media contract expires.

I don’t see FSU going anywhere before 2029. Even in 2029, the B10 may decide to pass or FSU may decide not to challenge the GoR.

A couple of points:

Anyone wanting FSU before about 2034 who isn't a property held by ESPN will pay through the nose as will FSU.

Anyone offering FSU prior to their leaving will be guilty of tortuous interference and sued, so that means if FSU is approached the approaching conference is liable.

If FSU pays their way out, they'll have to negotiate with ESPN and the ACC to arrive at the amount. If ESPN wishes to retain them then they have three advantages in encouraging FSU to depart to the SEC:

1. FSU can keep the ACC contract paid in full contractually and line up a replacement which could generate a bit more revenue either through market reach or brand. If the ACC gains by FSU's departure it makes negotiations easier.

2. ESPN since they pay both the SEC and ACC can spread out FSU's negotiated payments to the ACC members whether for the exit fee, or a negotiated GOR buyback or both. Since there are 12 years remaining on ACC contract and 10 on the SEC's they can withhold 1/10th of the buyout per year and pay it directly to the ACC or ACC member schools. If the Big 10 tries to buy FSU, which they won't, the payment will have to be lump sum by either the Big 10 or FSU. That what won't happen. ESPN isn't giving FOX a way into the state of Florida which will cut ESPN's advertising revenues there.

3. FSU knows these things, as does the ACC. If FSU goes to the Big 10 ESPN isn't covering the loss for the ACC. If they go to the SEC where ESPN holds them until 2032 it is a different story. The SEC won't approach or make an offer until the ACC and ESPN are satisfied with the arrangement.

So, you have the cart before the horse. FSU has to settle with ESPN and the ACC before any conference can offer them a slot. The same was true for Texas and Oklahoma. If FSU is hellbent to leave and willing to join another ESPN conference this can be worked out. If they aren't it won't. If they don't work it out, neither the SEC nor Big 10 will make them offer.

This protracted period of relative silence has likely seen some heavy negotiations. When FSU declared today, they would not seek independence that is a good sign an arrangement looks favorable. If so, then official exchanges of financial documents after a NDA is signed will mean their attorneys and the conference they are seeking to join's attorneys will be hammering out the details. Since ESPN is contracted both ways much of this has likely already been done if they are moving.

Then if someone is moving with them from another conference that has to be worked out and if it is Kansas, FOX will want something in return. And that's where it could get interesting for another ACC school. Or maybe FOX will simply want more of the Big 12, or perhaps ESPN and FOX have some deal ancillary to sports they want to hash out. Or as they like to say a school to be named later, like if the Big 10 wanted Colorado or one or both of the Arizona schools ESPN would agree to cooperate. Who knows, but that's how deals get done. ESPN not bidding on the PAC 12 schools may have been an advanced concession. We won't know, but that's how they work it out between corporations if it is an amicable settlement. If not, FSU may have trouble getting free.

If it is freeing Notre Dame, if the Irish indeed wants to be part of the Big 10, then all of this is just a preliminary to much bigger moves, and that too could be in the works, and we wouldn't know it. So, we wait and see. ESPN and the SEC would like to have, or keep, the Seminoles, I don't care what poppycock you read in the blogs. Florida is twice the market of North Carolina and Virginia combined and that's why they are wanted. With UF they carry 77% of the state's college sports watchers with overlap with each other and the other schools.

If it is just FSU from the ACC and another school from elsewhere this might end quietly, and things could settle down. If N.D. leaves the moves will be large. Which would you prefer?

ND's GoR does not apply to football, and for that reason, any buyout ND would have to pay to get out of the GoR would be several orders of magnitude lower than the buyout Florida State would have to pay. With that having been said, ND cherishes its independence and won't give it up lightly. I'm not saying they'll remain independent forever, but in all likelihood, they'll remain independent longer than you expect. Even in the nuclear scenario, i.e., the ACC collapses entirely, ND has options to maintain its independence. In all likelihood, either the Big XII or the Big East would be available as a landing spot for basketball and olympic sports. Moreover, ND has shown a willingness to leave money on the table in order to preserve independence, so even the TV contracts the Big Ten is getting won't necessarily be dispositive. So long as they can get somewhere in the neighborhood of $50 million/year from NBC in the next contract, they'll remain independent.