(03-27-2024 08:37 AM)eku05 Wrote:  

Quote:How does one call Liberty or Grand Canyon a diploma mill, you make **** up.

Grand Canyon is a for-profit school, and they are the only such institution in Division I. Fairly or unfairly, there is a stigma that comes with that. I thought I'd heard they were moving to change that status, but I can't find anything on that right now. I'd welcome an update from anyone that knows more than I do about them.

In the case of Liberty I'm sure he's referring to their massive online enrollment. The overwhelming majority of Liberty alums earn their degree without ever actually having to set foot on campus. There's nothing wrong with that. It's just a 21st Century way of doing things and Liberty has cashed in massively, but it is a little unusual. I would not characterize it as fair to call them a diploma mill for that reason alone, though.

GCU and several for profit designated schools applied with the Department of Education to be reclassified about a year or so ago. Their request was denied and they remain a for profit school.

(03-27-2024 01:09 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  Interesting that the US Dept of Education lists them as “ for profit “ while the IRS does not. Govt agencies are not always transparent about their motives so who knows what’s going on with this.

The Department of Education continues to treat GCU like a for-profit company because, while the university itself is a non-profit, it is controlled by a for-profit company.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/loc...177203002/

And the university does appear to be living up to the sus reputation of for-profit universities. Last fall, the Department of Education fined it millions of dollars for deceptive pricing.

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/grand-...at-to-know

(03-27-2024 11:54 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  Grand Canyon being a private probably spends their money more wisely.

I do not share your faith in private, for-profit corporations, which are capable of astonishing waste.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/legalindus...024-02-08/

Grand Canyon Education Inc https://g.co/kgs/151jMG5

(03-27-2024 07:25 PM)Schadenfreude Wrote:  

(03-27-2024 01:09 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  Interesting that the US Dept of Education lists them as “ for profit “ while the IRS does not. Govt agencies are not always transparent about their motives so who knows what’s going on with this.

The Department of Education continues to treat GCU like a for-profit company because, while the university itself is a non-profit, it is controlled by a for-profit company.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/loc...177203002/

And the university does appear to be living up to the sus reputation of for-profit universities. Last fall, the Department of Education fined it millions of dollars for deceptive pricing.

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/grand-...at-to-know

(03-27-2024 11:54 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  Grand Canyon being a private probably spends their money more wisely.

I do not share your faith in private, for-profit corporations, which are capable of astonishing waste.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/legalindus...024-02-08/

Must be nice to waste so much you can pay your founder 55 billion.

Just thought I'd throw this info on this thread.

Do these schools own these markets? NO-OF COURSE NOT. Still this has to have "some" influence on future Media Deals.

CUSA MEDIA Markets according to 2023-24 Nielsen Ratings:

Delaware (Philadelphia)-- #4 (with a slight "nod" to Baltimore #29)
SHSU (50 miles to Houston suburbs)-- #6 (Yes--I know I'm stretching it)
KSU (ATLANTA)-- #7
FIU (Miami) ----#18
MT (Nashville)-#26 (with a slight "nod" to WKU)
JAX St. (a slight "nod" to #46 Birmingham-Anniston)
Liberty (Lynchburg-Roanoke)--#70
Missouri St. (candidate) Springfield--#73
UTEP/NMSU (El Paso)-- #89
La Tech (a "nod" to Shreveport)--#92 AND MONROE--#142

As a point of clarification in regard to SHSU, the campus is only 20ish miles from the northern end of the Houston metro. Sam is nearly 70 miles from Downtown Houston. But most of this board have no concept just how massive the Houston metro actually is. It is over a hundred miles across the metro in every direction. The primary impediment to Huntsville being in the Houston metro in the next decade is the national forest just south of town legally hindering development.

Kennesaw State is in the Atlanta metro which is much more compact. The campus is about 25 miles from downtown. But feels further based on the relatively rural setting.

In both cases, the metros are so massive that even being a dominant influence in just a corner of the market is much larger than that bottom half of the above list ownign their markets. Delaware is an odd example as Newark is only 50-55 miles from both Philly & Baltimore but is culturally the antithesis of both cities. And let the record show that I consider that a very good thing.

(04-17-2024 05:55 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  KSU (ATLANTA)-- #7
JAX St. (a slight "nod" to #46 Birmingham-Anniston)

I get what you're saying, but I can't let this slide. If KSU counts as Atlanta with no "nod", then no nod is needed for Jax State.

We aren't "close" to the Birmingham-Anniston market. We are *IN* the Birmingham-Anniston market. When Birmingham's ABC 33/40 was formed in the mid-1990s, the "40" was the result of the acquisition of former CBS affiliate WJSU in Anniston, only 10 miles south of Jacksonville.

Granted, we're in a market that's owned by two SEC behemoths -- that one school over in Tuscaloosa, and their big rival, an out-of-market team close to Montgomery near the Georgia border.

UAB and JSU get only scraps. But we both get a similar amount of scraps. (On average, the Blazers may get 5 more seconds of coverage a night than us, but they have to fight for theirs just like we do.)

But that's exactly the same dynamic as Kennesaw (and Ga State) in Atlanta, where TV coverage is dominated by some team from a town in Greece. I don't know their name. They bark a lot. Oh, and we can't forget about Atlanta University.

(04-18-2024 11:21 AM)whupemall Wrote:  

(04-17-2024 05:55 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  KSU (ATLANTA)-- #7
JAX St. (a slight "nod" to #46 Birmingham-Anniston)

I get what you're saying, but I can't let this slide. If KSU counts as Atlanta with no "nod", then no nod is needed for Jax State.

We aren't "close" to the Birmingham-Anniston market. We are *IN* the Birmingham-Anniston market. When Birmingham's ABC 33/40 was formed in the mid-1990s, the "40" was the result of the acquisition of former CBS affiliate WJSU in Anniston, only 10 miles south of Jacksonville.

Granted, we're in a market that's owned by two SEC behemoths -- that one school over in Tuscaloosa, and their big rival, an out-of-market team close to Montgomery near the Georgia border.

UAB and JSU get only scraps. But we both get a similar amount of scraps. (On average, the Blazers may get 5 more seconds of coverage a night than us, but they have to fight for theirs just like we do.)

But that's exactly the same dynamic as Kennesaw (and Ga State) in Atlanta, where TV coverage is dominated by some team from a town in Greece. I don't know their name. They bark a lot. Oh, and we can't forget about Atlanta University.

Thanks for the clarification. Was not aware of those details.

Still #7 pulls more media attention than #46.

Disclaimer-- I"M VERY Aware that JAX St. and KSU get smaller credit since there are Pro Sports, SEC, AAC etc. to compete with.

BUT--it all adds up. A little here, a little there. Eleven or so markets (some huge).

I will say that I DO NOT think it's a "coincidence" that the last Two adds are near huge media markets.

**Additionally--We are only talking about moving a small media deal--a small amount upward.**

The next CUSA Deal expires in 2028. Negotiations will start much earlier. KSU (Atlanta) and Delaware (Philly) will be on board by then. Those two plus other factors should take us upward. More inventory; maybe a slightly longer deal if they offer more, etc..

My GUESS is that we could (with a 12 team league and everyone staying) go from the current $800,000 per school to the 1.2 to 1.5 Million range.

Of course a Lot could change between now and then.

**My Main Point.

(04-18-2024 11:51 AM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  Thanks for the clarification. Was not aware of those details.

Still #7 pulls more media attention than #46.

I totally get that and I'm not trying to be a stickler for absolute perfection on every detail. Honest.

I was just puzzled by the lack of nodding where KSU's share of the Atlanta market is concerned. (And I mean no disrespect to the Owls. They should be the first to say Atlanta is dominated by other teams, if they're honest.)

On that note... one other interesting tidbit:

The Tuscaloosa/Bham/Anniston market is only #46 overall. But when it comes specifically to COLLEGE FOOTBALL (which seems relevant) it's actually one of the top markets in the country. I don't know the current figures, but I do know that as recently as 5 years ago, it was hovering between No. 1 and No. 2.

Atlanta is WAY bigger, but it's a pro sports town, so college football has to share coverage with the Falcons, Braves, and Hawks.

Several other equally huge markets are also more devoted to the pros than to college sports. Many even moreso than the ATL.

But Birmingham? It's all college all the time. The closest we come to the pros is the USFL. So it's a smaller overall pie, but we get a decent sized piece of that pie.

I can't do it now, but I'll try to dig up those college football-specific market rankings. Maybe I can find some updated numbers for 2024.

Yes--you are exactly right. B-ham either #1 or 2 CFB market every year.

My post #365 above with all the figures is certainly not an exact analytic and there is no "straight forward" correlation to future media deals.

But I believe it will give our next contract a measurable increase just by having Atlanta, Philly, and Houston in the mix along with Birmingham and the others listed.

Our "bottom line" Media Money may still come in fourth or fifth among the G5--BUT we will be competitive and be in the "ballpark".

(04-18-2024 09:05 AM)SlyFox Wrote:  As a point of clarification in regard to SHSU, the campus is only 20ish miles from the northern end of the Houston metro. Sam is nearly 70 miles from Downtown Houston. But most of this board have no concept just how massive the Houston metro actually is. It is over a hundred miles across the metro in every direction. The primary impediment to Huntsville being in the Houston metro in the next decade is the national forest just south of town legally hindering development.

Kennesaw State is in the Atlanta metro which is much more compact. The campus is about 25 miles from downtown. But feels further based on the relatively rural setting.

In both cases, the metros are so massive that even being a dominant influence in just a corner of the market is much larger than that bottom half of the above list ownign their markets. Delaware is an odd example as Newark is only 50-55 miles from both Philly & Baltimore but is culturally the antithesis of both cities. And let the record show that I consider that a very good thing.

Kennesaw does not feel rural at all lol. SHSU is much more of that.

IMO the goal of CUSA is to have "competitive" income streams when compared to the MAC or SBC.

If there is a Huge gap (money difference)--then you have problems and have added a reason for someone to leave if invited. Similar revenues make that decision to depart more difficult or not feasible.

Three main CUSA Revenues disbursed:

1.) CFP share--depending on "how" it is split among the G5---CUSA members could get a little more(estimate $200,000) per school because of having fewer members OR the same exact amount.

2.) NCAA Basketball Units---CUSA has outperformed the SBC and MAC in this area over the last six years(payout period for each tourney). In addition--we have Fewer schools--which means a slightly bigger portion for each school.

3.) CUSA Media Deal--Currently Last--but not very far behind; much closer than we were two years ago.
"Hope" the new deal in 2028 (which could be re-negotiated in 2026 or '27) will go up to the 1.2-1.4M range per team. This hope is based on *Media Trends, inflation, larger media markets and new states, twelve team inventory, and a possible "Boise St.--like" Top 25 team to draw some national interest.

*Media Trends have all shown that ANY live Sports programming continues to hold steady or better in the ratings. Especially Football. Networks want Sports CONTENT--Seven Days a week.