LOL

It seems academics is the main thing. How does App. St raise their academic profile?

Also state/markets redundancy. If App moved campus to Gatlinburg or Pigeon Forge (like Wake Forest did in the ‘50s) then I think that wouid help.

Seriously, why are we even having this discussion? Any self aware App State supporter knows the ACC is not happening anytime soon, period. There also is nothing wrong with that. The SBC, specifically the SBC East, is an EXCELLENT home for Appalachian.

Really what this thread seems to be turning into is an App State bash session. And it is getting really old having to defend the quality of an App State degree. People are throwing around words like community college, which is utter horse manure.

(09-28-2023 12:51 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  It seems academics is the main thing. How does App. St raise their academic profile?

Also state/markets redundancy. If App moved campus to Gatlinburg or Pigeon Forge (like Wake Forest did in the ‘50s) then I think that wouid help.

The criticism is the limited number of research dollars, i.e., graduate programs. Which is weird because, by and large, athletes are not grad students, anyway.

But to raise its profile, they have to get green lighted by the UNC System. A nurse practitioner program run out of hospitals in Charlotte and/or Asheville and/or Winston-Salem would be a small but good start. Engineering? Better start. And so on. But UNC is not going to allow that. God forbid another strong research university emerges in a state of 10.6 million and rapidly growing, let alone one from a small town.

(09-28-2023 12:51 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  It seems academics is the main thing. How does App. St raise their academic profile?

Also state/markets redundancy. If App moved campus to Gatlinburg or Pigeon Forge (like Wake Forest did in the ‘50s) then I think that wouid help.

its simply a matter of university mission. App States university mission is to teach and graduate undergraduate and masters degrees and get people in the workforce. We are very good at it and our graduates do very well in their fields.

Our undergraduate profile is already ahead of Louisville (avg GPA, SAT ACT score) but we lack the research designator and dollars and a Med school.

FYI James Madison was in our place ~5 years ago. Always top 3 Masters level school. Once they had enough research and Doctoral programs to be considered "national" they rocket shipped to #124 overall (for comparison Louisville is #195)

I would expect App to have a similar rank.

As to location, that will never happen because App is Boone and Boone is App. However, we have opened a campus down the mountain at an exburb of Charlotte that sits ~1 hr away from Boone, Asheville and Charlotte that might be our ticket to increase our PhD and Professional programs.

(09-28-2023 01:01 PM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 12:51 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  It seems academics is the main thing. How does App. St raise their academic profile?

Also state/markets redundancy. If App moved campus to Gatlinburg or Pigeon Forge (like Wake Forest did in the ‘50s) then I think that wouid help.

its simply a matter of university mission. App States university mission is to teach and graduate undergraduate and masters degrees and get people in the workforce. We are very good at it and our graduates do very well in their fields.

Our undergraduate profile is already ahead of Louisville (avg GPA, SAT ACT score) but we lack the research designator and dollars and a Med school.

FYI James Madison was in our place ~5 years ago. Always top 3 Masters level school. Once they had enough research and Doctoral programs to be considered "national" they rocket shipped to #124 overall (for comparison Louisville is #195)

I would expect App to have a similar rank.

As to location, that will never happen because App is Boone and Boone is App. However, we have opened a campus down the mountain at an exburb of Charlotte that sits ~1 hr away from Boone, Asheville and Charlotte that might be our ticket to increase our PhD and Professional programs.

UNCC is in the process of getting a Nursing PhD program and UNC Pembroke is working towards a Doctor of Optometry program. They’re letting NCCU develop PsyD and EdD programs. App has no doctoral programs in the approval process.

I don’t know if App wants to push for more doctoral programs, based on its mission. I haven’t heard the desire for more of these programs come from the current leadership, but if others heard differently, I’d be curious.

(09-28-2023 01:39 PM)VNova Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 01:01 PM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 12:51 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  It seems academics is the main thing. How does App. St raise their academic profile?

Also state/markets redundancy. If App moved campus to Gatlinburg or Pigeon Forge (like Wake Forest did in the ‘50s) then I think that wouid help.

its simply a matter of university mission. App States university mission is to teach and graduate undergraduate and masters degrees and get people in the workforce. We are very good at it and our graduates do very well in their fields.

Our undergraduate profile is already ahead of Louisville (avg GPA, SAT ACT score) but we lack the research designator and dollars and a Med school.

FYI James Madison was in our place ~5 years ago. Always top 3 Masters level school. Once they had enough research and Doctoral programs to be considered "national" they rocket shipped to #124 overall (for comparison Louisville is #195)

I would expect App to have a similar rank.

As to location, that will never happen because App is Boone and Boone is App. However, we have opened a campus down the mountain at an exburb of Charlotte that sits ~1 hr away from Boone, Asheville and Charlotte that might be our ticket to increase our PhD and Professional programs.

UNCC is in the process of getting a Nursing PhD program and UNC Pembroke is working towards a Doctor of Optometry program. They’re letting NCCU develop PsyD and EdD programs. App has no doctoral programs in the approval process.

I don’t know if App wants to push for more doctoral programs, based on its mission. I haven’t heard the desire for more of these programs come from the current leadership, but if others heard differently, I’d be curious.

You have to remember we have an antagonistic UNCBOG who denied App State a nursing program 3x (2x even after Atrium was willing to partner and fund a substantial portion to help the nursing shortage in WNC). Finally we did a private partnership with Baptist to get our program off the ground. This is what we have to go through to get funded for a vital industry that’s in huge demand and active shortage. Imagine what it’s like for other programs.

I can understand why Sheri and Co might have decided to focus on other areas.

Still the demographics of Hickory and the greater Charlotte MSA are going to help App politically navigate these fields. Hopefully

I meant no offense to App State who is catching strays. I simply wanted to bring up how market factors and academics are trumpeted against G5 teams but ignored for P5 teams. I personally don't think the SEC would ever choose Clemson if UNC and FSU were available. They just don't add new eyeballs or new TV markets, and why would ESPN pay Clemson more to broadcast the games they already own.

(09-28-2023 08:16 AM)LeeNobody Wrote:  Rather analogous situations.

Clemson and App State both won at exceptional levels.Both are redundant media markets. Both have destinations that share media partners at current and expected landing spots.

Why is it that App State to the ACC, is rightly treated as ridiculous, while Clemson to the SEC is deemed plausible?

Is it all just wishcasting?

This thread seems unneeded.

(09-28-2023 08:16 AM)LeeNobody Wrote:  Rather analogous situations.

Clemson and App State both won at exceptional levels.Both are redundant media markets. Both have destinations that share media partners at current and expected landing spots.

Why is it that App State to the ACC, is rightly treated as ridiculous, while Clemson to the SEC is deemed plausible?

Is it all just wishcasting?

Clemson packs in 81k for every home game, and even in off years like last year they still get mostly strong TV ratings. This year they're 2-2 and pulled in almost 7m vs FSU the other day. They also have 2 National Titles, 7 Conference Titles, and 10 x 10 win seasons in the past 10 years. They've achieved success at the highest level for a solid decade, and they had another big run in the 80s when they won their first Title. The SEC would love to have them today, 2036, or any time in between, they just need to figure out their ACC situation and send us the request.

App St has won a lot of games but never made a major bowl. They've only been back in the top tier of CFB for a decade. They're more of a "not now but not never" consideration for the ACC.

(09-28-2023 08:29 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 08:16 AM)LeeNobody Wrote:  Rather analogous situations.

Clemson and App State both won at exceptional levels.Both are redundant media markets. Both have destinations that share media partners at current and expected landing spots.

Why is it that App State to the ACC , rightly treated as ridiculous, while Clemson to the SEC is deemed plausible?

Is it all just wishcasting?

Hey if App gets in, then so does Marshall, ECU, James Madison and ODU

(09-28-2023 02:31 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 08:16 AM)LeeNobody Wrote:  Rather analogous situations.

Clemson and App State both won at exceptional levels.Both are redundant media markets. Both have destinations that share media partners at current and expected landing spots.

Why is it that App State to the ACC, is rightly treated as ridiculous, while Clemson to the SEC is deemed plausible?

Is it all just wishcasting?

Clemson packs in 81k for every home game, and even in off years like last year they still get mostly strong TV ratings. This year they're 2-2 and pulled in almost 7m vs FSU the other day. They also have 2 National Titles, 7 Conference Titles, and 10 x 10 win seasons in the past 10 years. They've achieved success at the highest level for a solid decade, and they had another big run in the 80s when they won their first Title. The SEC would love to have them today, 2036, or any time in between, they just need to figure out their ACC situation and send us the request.

App St has won a lot of games but never made a major bowl. They've only been back in the top tier of CFB for a decade. They're more of a "not now but not never" consideration for the ACC.

1981, 2016, 2018: 3 National Titles.

(09-28-2023 08:35 AM)LeeNobody Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 08:30 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  Bitter Yellow Jackets fan whose school will probably be left out of P2? Just guessing...

Not bitter as there appears to be nothing to be bitter about. Just wondering why is there a 7 page thread on an anonymous rumor from a Clemson SI site that lacks any actual justification on how Clemson gets out of the GOR or why the SEC would take them. It just seems silly.

Hmmm, why would the SEC want Clemson?

Highest game day attendance by FAR in the non-P2. At least 10k per game ahead of #2 FSU, and another 5k ahead of VT.

Very high and consistent TV ratings. Even in an "off" year last year they had several games just under 5m. This year they're a mediocre 2-2 yet still pulled nearly 7m vs FSU the other day.

3 National Titles, including 2 in the past Decade. 7 Conference titles in the past decade.

Strong, National Fanbase.

Location in South Carolina fits in SEC footprint very well.

They never left the SEC, then stayed out despite repeated SEC attempts to get them to come back like a certain school did.

Did I miss something?

(09-28-2023 11:19 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 11:16 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Louisville is #15 nationally in revenue. They are operating on a gigantic athletic budget. They're effectively the professional team of the #43 MSA.

I understand that Louisville is an athletic behemoth, but i mean from an academic profile standpoint.

If the ACC presidents of UNC, UVA and Duke swallowed their academic snobbishness for Louisville, if the economics worked, they'd do it for App State too.

App St isn't even ranked nationally as a University, they're regional. Louisville is #195 out of 430. They are worlds apart.

Why would Clemson to the SEC be treated like App State to the ACC?

(09-28-2023 08:16 AM)LeeNobody Wrote:  Rather analogous situations.

Clemson and App State both won at exceptional levels.Both are redundant media markets. Both have destinations that share media partners at current and expected landing spots.

Why is it that App State to the ACC, is rightly treated as ridiculous, while Clemson to the SEC is deemed plausible?

Is it all just wishcasting?

Yes. The wishcasting is anyone seeing the situations as analogous.

(09-28-2023 09:41 AM)Wolfman Wrote:  Clemson would be a NO-GO if the SEC already had 4 teams in South Carolina.

No school from North Carolina is getting in the ACC unless at least 2 of the existing NC schools leave.

This.

The ACC opportunities for schools like East Carolina and App State improve dramatically if 2-3 North Carolina schools currently in the ACC get a P2 call up.

(09-28-2023 11:11 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 08:38 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 08:16 AM)LeeNobody Wrote:  Rather analogous situations.

Clemson and App State both won at exceptional levels.Both are redundant media markets. Both have destinations that share media partners at current and expected landing spots.

Why is it that App State to the ACC , rightly treated as ridiculous, while Clemson to the SEC is deemed plausible?

Is it all just wishcasting?

maybe because App State's academic profile would be like a community college compared to the ACC's? Clemson would be above the SEC average.

if Louisville can get in, App State can get in.

Personally I think this is a very prescient question that needs to go all the way to the top.

You are joking right ? First there will not be 5 NC schools in the ACC, 2nd Louisville has 3 National Championships and outside of a couple of bad FB hires been ranked in AP top 25 multiple times . We have modern State of the art facilities and are very accessible to get to minutes from L&N field and YUM!

(09-29-2023 08:16 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 11:11 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 08:38 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 08:16 AM)LeeNobody Wrote:  Rather analogous situations.

Clemson and App State both won at exceptional levels.Both are redundant media markets. Both have destinations that share media partners at current and expected landing spots.

Why is it that App State to the ACC , rightly treated as ridiculous, while Clemson to the SEC is deemed plausible?

Is it all just wishcasting?

maybe because App State's academic profile would be like a community college compared to the ACC's? Clemson would be above the SEC average.

if Louisville can get in, App State can get in.

Personally I think this is a very prescient question that needs to go all the way to the top.

You are joking right ? First there will not be 5 NC schools in the ACC, 2nd Louisville has 3 National Championships and outside of a couple of bad FB hires been ranked in AP top 25 multiple times . We have modern State of the art facilities and are very accessible to get to minutes from L&N field and YUM!

(09-28-2023 11:19 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  

(09-28-2023 11:16 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Louisville is #15 nationally in revenue. They are operating on a gigantic athletic budget. They're effectively the professional team of the #43 MSA.

I understand that Louisville is an athletic behemoth, but i mean from an academic profile standpoint.

If the ACC presidents of UNC, UVA and Duke swallowed their academic snobbishness for Louisville, if the economics worked, they'd do it for App State too.

There is no universe where the ACC has 5 teams in NC.