With just a slight change in timing for how realignment shook out, it could just as easily been JMU,Marshall, ODU, and Southern Miss to the AAC. Then there would have been no need to pluck 6 also rans from the CUSA.

You can easily argue that the configuration of the AAC would have been even better for JMU, Marshall, ODU, and Southern Miss.

Aligned with Memphis, East Carolina, Navy, Tulane, Tulsa, Temple, South Florida, and SMU(for 2 years).
Those athletic programs as a group are above the legacy Sun Belt programs

(09-19-2023 08:48 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  With just a slight change in timing for how realignment shook out, it could just as easily been JMU,Marshall, ODU, and Southern Miss to the AAC. Then there would have been no need to pluck 6 also rans from the CUSA.

You can easily argue that the configuration of the AAC would have been even better for JMU, Marshall, ODU, and Southern Miss.

Aligned with Memphis, East Carolina, Navy, Tulane, Tulsa, Temple, South Florida, and SMU(for 2 years).
Those athletic programs as a group are above the legacy Sun Belt programs

The AAC would have not taken JMU under any circumstances, blindly, as an FCS call up. Would they take them now? Probably.

And the other teams you mentioned are being cuckolded by the those legacy SBC team you mentioned. Even the Bobcats got themselves a P5 scalp. In terms of just on the field performance, I'll take our guys over theirs every single time, even in a down year. AAC would have been stronger if they'd done what you suggested, but they didn't. We'll all have the last laugh over them eventually as the strongest league overall. Doesn't mean there won't be ups and downs, and they'll probably get paid better for a long time.

(09-19-2023 04:07 PM)Bobcat87 Wrote:  

(09-19-2023 01:48 PM)BirdofParadise Wrote:  I look at the six teams the American added and I ask, "Would we rather have any of them ahead of JMU, Marshall and ODU.

The answer is no. We wouldn't.

eeehhh, not so fast

Swap utsa for jmu. . .. that’s the ticket

Can't do that because of the geography. Adding Southern Miss was a no brainer. The goal was to be able to shift Troy to the West, joining South Alabama.

That meant, in order to have a 7-7 East/West, the Sun Belt had to add three to the East.

Hello ODU, Marshall and JMU.

UTSA was never an option this time around. The league now has seven teams in the Eastern Time Zone and seven in the Central Time Zone.

(09-19-2023 08:48 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  With just a slight change in timing for how realignment shook out, it could just as easily been JMU,Marshall, ODU, and Southern Miss to the AAC. Then there would have been no need to pluck 6 also rans from the CUSA.

You can easily argue that the configuration of the AAC would have been even better for JMU, Marshall, ODU, and Southern Miss.

Aligned with Memphis, East Carolina, Navy, Tulane, Tulsa, Temple, South Florida, and SMU(for 2 years).
Those athletic programs as a group are above the legacy Sun Belt programs

No and no.

Those 4 would not have been invited to the AAC and it would not be a better situation.

I think for ODU’s part they were working hard on an east coast conference but the logistics of making that happen were likely not an easy task to get enough on board. The discontent with CUSA was to the point though if Marshall had called and said they were working on going to the SB with USM then we’d have gotten on the horn and May well have ended up in the same situation we are now. JMU & ODU both wanted to end up in a conference together. I think App liked the idea of JMU and Marshall being added and likely had no issues with ODU. Marshall, ODU & JMU all liked the idea of jumping together. None of the other eastern teams had an issue with the ones coming in. The west is happy with USM and Troy moving west. ESPN says they’ll foot the bill. Looking back it seems like it was meant to be.

The Sun Belt has certainly entertained thoughts of various schools. UAB and USM were targeted more than a decade ago. Then again after UAB dropped football, they were approached again with the idea that a lower cost of living might make the return easier.

The strangest twist was the Sun Belt meeting in San Destin when it was agreed around the cocktail tables to invite UTSA before they entered WAC and as a courtesy, it would be UNT moving to invite the in-state school. They got to new business and UNT sat silent and after awkward silence no one moved to invite them.

ECU has pretty much always been on the lust for list but was never anything anyone thought could be pulled off because let's face it ECU's dream date was always ACC and the only way there was to pull off an invite to old AQ BCS Big East and become too good to ignore.

Missouri State for a time needed only pick up the phone and say we're ready, that ship has sailed. At one time that was true for Chattanooga but that ship sank well before Missouri State's ship sailed.

Once upon a time when the WAC was a giant doughnut (until 2005) with SMU, Tulsa, Rice, La Tech in the east, the conventional wisdom was that MWC would go to 12 by taking Boise State, Fresno State, Hawaii, and Nevada and the WAC would have the four eastern schools, UTEP and San Jose State, the Spartans would be kicked to the curb and the remaining five would construct a "new SWC". Of course what happened was Big East got raided and in turn CUSA was raided and SMU, Rice, and Tulsa went to CUSA.

The WAC's disinterest in helping La.Tech out after they got stranded with UTEP their nearest neighbor, they would only take one central time zone and then only because they didn't want Idaho. Neither UL nor UNT wanted to be off on Louisiana Tech island but had WAC been willing to add four with UL, UNT, MTSU, and AState it's whole nether world and Sun Belt's out of the football business.

As to the issue of adding teams. There's no "gentleman's agreement", if there were the membership might not look the same today because it wasn't Georgia State that entered Georgia Southern's name in a motion to invite. I know there have been times schools have entered a name out of political obligation when there wasn't a snowball's chance in Arkansas on a mid-July day in August of it going anywhere.

The dynamics in the meetings can be surprising at times. The personalities of the campus CEO's has much more to do with how things go and who carries the respect of their peers, rather than records on the field or the court. At various times it's been the leaders of Louisiana, Troy, Arkansas State, and Appalachian State who were the people the other presidents and chancellors listened to and could persuade people to change their mind. Wouldn't be a bit surprised if Texas State's president is one of the trusted leaders right now because he'd been voted league president while at AState and Damphousse being a former faculty athletics rep at OU has serious credibility.

I’ve always heard that since the SBC days of Wright Waters, who worked at USM many years ago, USM had a standing, very unofficial invite to the SBC. It didn’t make sense for us until CUSA 2.0 fell apart. Honestly I wish we’d have moved over starting in 2013. The damage and apathy caused by being in 3.0 combined with our own leadership failure is deep and we are still recovering in football.

(09-19-2023 08:48 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  With just a slight change in timing for how realignment shook out, it could just as easily been JMU,Marshall, ODU, and Southern Miss to the AAC. Then there would have been no need to pluck 6 also rans from the CUSA.

You can easily argue that the configuration of the AAC would have been even better for JMU, Marshall, ODU, and Southern Miss.

Aligned with Memphis, East Carolina, Navy, Tulane, Tulsa, Temple, South Florida, and SMU(for 2 years).
Those athletic programs as a group are above the legacy Sun Belt programs

It's funny to think about what could've been if the AAC had taken an approach focused on the things that the SBC focused on. They were the top G5 and in the driver's seat, but I don't know if they could've ended up with something as good as what we've got, and definitely not with all of us SBC East fans ending up as happy as we did.

If they flat out added the four the SBC added then we would've been without App State. Without other attractive conference mates too, but App State is kinda the school that's had us going "man we should be in a conference together" for as long as JMU has been good at football.

In reality, as an FCS school it seems likely that JMU would've been one of the schools left on the outside looking in so obviously that would've sucked for us but I think it's also probably becoming more and more clear to fans like Marshall and App State how much they'd have been missing out on by leaving us behind.

The AAC can kick themselves for the route they took and probably will be kicking themselves more and more as time goes on. The SBC schools they didn't want can also point and laugh and go "don't you wish you'd taken us instead?!" But at the end of the day I'd have a hard time convincing myself that I'd rather have had the AAC invite us and our top SBC East choices than have the result we actually got. This conference worked out pretty perfectly and is a great balance of a tight but not too tight footprint.

(09-22-2023 01:38 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  

(09-19-2023 08:48 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  With just a slight change in timing for how realignment shook out, it could just as easily been JMU,Marshall, ODU, and Southern Miss to the AAC. Then there would have been no need to pluck 6 also rans from the CUSA.

You can easily argue that the configuration of the AAC would have been even better for JMU, Marshall, ODU, and Southern Miss.

Aligned with Memphis, East Carolina, Navy, Tulane, Tulsa, Temple, South Florida, and SMU(for 2 years).
Those athletic programs as a group are above the legacy Sun Belt programs

It's funny to think about what could've been if the AAC had taken an approach focused on the things that the SBC focused on. They were the top G5 and in the driver's seat, but I don't know if they could've ended up with something as good as what we've got, and definitely not with all of us SBC East fans ending up as happy as we did.

If they flat out added the four the SBC added then we would've been without App State. Without other attractive conference mates too, but App State is kinda the school that's had us going "man we should be in a conference together" for as long as JMU has been good at football.

In reality, as an FCS school it seems likely that JMU would've been one of the schools left on the outside looking in so obviously that would've sucked for us but I think it's also probably becoming more and more clear to fans like Marshall and App State how much they'd have been missing out on by leaving us behind.

The AAC can kick themselves for the route they took and probably will be kicking themselves more and more as time goes on. The SBC schools they didn't want can also point and laugh and go "don't you wish you'd taken us instead?!" But at the end of the day I'd have a hard time convincing myself that I'd rather have had the AAC invite us and our top SBC East choices than have the result we actually got. This conference worked out pretty perfectly and is a great balance of a tight but not too tight footprint.

Seems like every year the AAC threatens to add someone past the Rockies. I don't want to be there when that actually happens and we end up with another UTEP traveling situation.

Do Wazzou and Oregon State really have the cachet to warrant the extra travel? I don't think so. They won't bring enough money to warrant that. And, honestly, if they rebuild the PAC, they will have to open that warchest to entice teams to fill the conference. The money's just not going to be there to save the conference from any media deal. 20 years down the road, people will look on this time as the time college football died between the portal, NIL, realignment for the wrong reasons, geographic idiocy, changing the rules to squeeze in more advertising and less football, the playoffs, etc etc.

(09-22-2023 01:52 PM)MUther Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 01:38 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  

(09-19-2023 08:48 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  With just a slight change in timing for how realignment shook out, it could just as easily been JMU,Marshall, ODU, and Southern Miss to the AAC. Then there would have been no need to pluck 6 also rans from the CUSA.

You can easily argue that the configuration of the AAC would have been even better for JMU, Marshall, ODU, and Southern Miss.

Aligned with Memphis, East Carolina, Navy, Tulane, Tulsa, Temple, South Florida, and SMU(for 2 years).
Those athletic programs as a group are above the legacy Sun Belt programs

It's funny to think about what could've been if the AAC had taken an approach focused on the things that the SBC focused on. They were the top G5 and in the driver's seat, but I don't know if they could've ended up with something as good as what we've got, and definitely not with all of us SBC East fans ending up as happy as we did.

If they flat out added the four the SBC added then we would've been without App State. Without other attractive conference mates too, but App State is kinda the school that's had us going "man we should be in a conference together" for as long as JMU has been good at football.

In reality, as an FCS school it seems likely that JMU would've been one of the schools left on the outside looking in so obviously that would've sucked for us but I think it's also probably becoming more and more clear to fans like Marshall and App State how much they'd have been missing out on by leaving us behind.

The AAC can kick themselves for the route they took and probably will be kicking themselves more and more as time goes on. The SBC schools they didn't want can also point and laugh and go "don't you wish you'd taken us instead?!" But at the end of the day I'd have a hard time convincing myself that I'd rather have had the AAC invite us and our top SBC East choices than have the result we actually got. This conference worked out pretty perfectly and is a great balance of a tight but not too tight footprint.

Seems like every year the AAC threatens to add someone past the Rockies. I don't want to be there when that actually happens and we end up with another UTEP traveling situation.

Do Wazzou and Oregon State really have the cachet to warrant the extra travel? I don't think so. They won't bring enough money to warrant that. And, honestly, if they rebuild the PAC, they will have to open that warchest to entice teams to fill the conference. The money's just not going to be there to save the conference from any media deal. 20 years down the road, people will look on this time as the time college football died between the portal, NIL, realignment for the wrong reasons, geographic idiocy, changing the rules to squeeze in more advertising and less football, the playoffs, etc etc.

We are in the best possible conference we could have hoped for. The SBC East is perfect for Marshall.

(09-22-2023 02:16 PM)GreenBison Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 01:52 PM)MUther Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 01:38 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  

(09-19-2023 08:48 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  With just a slight change in timing for how realignment shook out, it could just as easily been JMU,Marshall, ODU, and Southern Miss to the AAC. Then there would have been no need to pluck 6 also rans from the CUSA.

You can easily argue that the configuration of the AAC would have been even better for JMU, Marshall, ODU, and Southern Miss.

Aligned with Memphis, East Carolina, Navy, Tulane, Tulsa, Temple, South Florida, and SMU(for 2 years).
Those athletic programs as a group are above the legacy Sun Belt programs

It's funny to think about what could've been if the AAC had taken an approach focused on the things that the SBC focused on. They were the top G5 and in the driver's seat, but I don't know if they could've ended up with something as good as what we've got, and definitely not with all of us SBC East fans ending up as happy as we did.

If they flat out added the four the SBC added then we would've been without App State. Without other attractive conference mates too, but App State is kinda the school that's had us going "man we should be in a conference together" for as long as JMU has been good at football.

In reality, as an FCS school it seems likely that JMU would've been one of the schools left on the outside looking in so obviously that would've sucked for us but I think it's also probably becoming more and more clear to fans like Marshall and App State how much they'd have been missing out on by leaving us behind.

The AAC can kick themselves for the route they took and probably will be kicking themselves more and more as time goes on. The SBC schools they didn't want can also point and laugh and go "don't you wish you'd taken us instead?!" But at the end of the day I'd have a hard time convincing myself that I'd rather have had the AAC invite us and our top SBC East choices than have the result we actually got. This conference worked out pretty perfectly and is a great balance of a tight but not too tight footprint.

Seems like every year the AAC threatens to add someone past the Rockies. I don't want to be there when that actually happens and we end up with another UTEP traveling situation.

Do Wazzou and Oregon State really have the cachet to warrant the extra travel? I don't think so. They won't bring enough money to warrant that. And, honestly, if they rebuild the PAC, they will have to open that warchest to entice teams to fill the conference. The money's just not going to be there to save the conference from any media deal. 20 years down the road, people will look on this time as the time college football died between the portal, NIL, realignment for the wrong reasons, geographic idiocy, changing the rules to squeeze in more advertising and less football, the playoffs, etc etc.

We are in the best possible conference we could have hoped for. The SBC East is perfect for Marshall.

The MAC and Sunbelt are like a snapshot of sanity in a crazy world. We're the MAC on steroids in a better locale.

(09-22-2023 02:20 PM)MUther Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 02:16 PM)GreenBison Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 01:52 PM)MUther Wrote:  

(09-22-2023 01:38 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  

(09-19-2023 08:48 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  With just a slight change in timing for how realignment shook out, it could just as easily been JMU,Marshall, ODU, and Southern Miss to the AAC. Then there would have been no need to pluck 6 also rans from the CUSA.

You can easily argue that the configuration of the AAC would have been even better for JMU, Marshall, ODU, and Southern Miss.

Aligned with Memphis, East Carolina, Navy, Tulane, Tulsa, Temple, South Florida, and SMU(for 2 years).
Those athletic programs as a group are above the legacy Sun Belt programs

It's funny to think about what could've been if the AAC had taken an approach focused on the things that the SBC focused on. They were the top G5 and in the driver's seat, but I don't know if they could've ended up with something as good as what we've got, and definitely not with all of us SBC East fans ending up as happy as we did.

If they flat out added the four the SBC added then we would've been without App State. Without other attractive conference mates too, but App State is kinda the school that's had us going "man we should be in a conference together" for as long as JMU has been good at football.

In reality, as an FCS school it seems likely that JMU would've been one of the schools left on the outside looking in so obviously that would've sucked for us but I think it's also probably becoming more and more clear to fans like Marshall and App State how much they'd have been missing out on by leaving us behind.

The AAC can kick themselves for the route they took and probably will be kicking themselves more and more as time goes on. The SBC schools they didn't want can also point and laugh and go "don't you wish you'd taken us instead?!" But at the end of the day I'd have a hard time convincing myself that I'd rather have had the AAC invite us and our top SBC East choices than have the result we actually got. This conference worked out pretty perfectly and is a great balance of a tight but not too tight footprint.

Seems like every year the AAC threatens to add someone past the Rockies. I don't want to be there when that actually happens and we end up with another UTEP traveling situation.

Do Wazzou and Oregon State really have the cachet to warrant the extra travel? I don't think so. They won't bring enough money to warrant that. And, honestly, if they rebuild the PAC, they will have to open that warchest to entice teams to fill the conference. The money's just not going to be there to save the conference from any media deal. 20 years down the road, people will look on this time as the time college football died between the portal, NIL, realignment for the wrong reasons, geographic idiocy, changing the rules to squeeze in more advertising and less football, the playoffs, etc etc.

We are in the best possible conference we could have hoped for. The SBC East is perfect for Marshall.

The MAC and Sunbelt are like a snapshot of sanity in a crazy world. We're the MAC on steroids in a better locale.

Exactly. Play your sports where you recruit and where your alumni clubs are.