Didn’t see a thread for this yet. ESPN is reporting a lineman for Ole Miss tried to take a break from football for reasons of mental health but that the school, Kiffin, staff, did not accept that he was “in crisis.”

Recording of Kiffin saying he is not the head coach but the “boss” and that football is the lineman’s “job.”

https://www.espn.com/college-football/st...tal-health

(09-15-2023 10:55 AM)Crayton Wrote:  Didn’t see a thread for this yet. ESPN is reporting a lineman for Ole Miss tried to take a break from football for reasons of mental health but that the school, Kiffin, staff, did not accept that he was “in crisis.”

Recording of Kiffin saying he is not the head coach but the “boss” and that football is the lineman’s “job.”

https://www.espn.com/college-football/st...tal-health

Kiffin is stupid.

That is probably a violation of law, not just stupid on the employee/student relationship. You let professionals talk to them.

in 10 years if college athletes become employees... yes Kiffin would be right, but that doesn't excuse him being an ass from the quotes. Alot of student atheletes are going to have rude awakening, if that happens.

now under the present structure, Kiffin is in the wrong. he def can't order them around like hes their boss. thats not how it is.

(09-15-2023 12:07 PM)woollymammoth41 Wrote:  in 10 years if college athletes become employees... yes Kiffin would be right, but that doesn't excuse him being an ass from the quotes. Alot of student atheletes are going to have rude awakening, if that happens.

now under the present structure, Kiffin is in the wrong. he def can't order them around like hes their boss. thats not how it is.

Well when you get into mental health, there are legal requirements for dealing with students. He may or may not be crossing a line.

(09-15-2023 12:08 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-15-2023 12:07 PM)woollymammoth41 Wrote:  in 10 years if college athletes become employees... yes Kiffin would be right, but that doesn't excuse him being an ass from the quotes. Alot of student atheletes are going to have rude awakening, if that happens.

now under the present structure, Kiffin is in the wrong. he def can't order them around like hes their boss. thats not how it is.

Well when you get into mental health, there are legal requirements for dealing with students. He may or may not be crossing a line.

Lying about mental health issues isn't the best look either.

(09-15-2023 12:08 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-15-2023 12:07 PM)woollymammoth41 Wrote:  in 10 years if college athletes become employees... yes Kiffin would be right, but that doesn't excuse him being an ass from the quotes. Alot of student atheletes are going to have rude awakening, if that happens.

now under the present structure, Kiffin is in the wrong. he def can't order them around like hes their boss. thats not how it is.

Well when you get into mental health, there are legal requirements for dealing with students. He may or may not be crossing a line.

And if he was in Arizona, Kiffin would be in legal trouble if did that.

Kiffin's quote (per The Athletic article)
https://theathletic.com/4866281/2023/09/...ed_article

“OK, you have a f—ing head coach, this is a job, guess what, if I have mental issues and I’m not diminishing them, I can’t not see my f—ing boss,” Kiffin said, according to the lawsuit. “When you were told again and again the head coach needs to see you, wasn’t to make you practice, wasn’t to play a position you don’t f—ing want to, OK, it was to talk to you and explain to you in the real world, OK, so I don’t give a f— what your mom says, OK, or what you think is the real f—ing world you show up to work, and then you say hey I have mental issues, OK.”

The lawsuit alleges that Kiffin told him he was off the team. “Go, go and guess what, we can kick you off the team, so go read your f—ing rights about mental health, we can kick you off the team, for not showing up, when the head coach asks to meet with you and you don’t show up for weeks, OK, we can remove you from the team.”
--------
The alleged threaten to transfer, then moving him to scout team im sure happens all the time now. The head coach has to be able to make decisions for his roster to run his team. Scholarships have never been guaranteed. Only year-to-year. The dude has played in 3 games. Now he wants $30M from Ole Miss because his grandma passed away (which has nothing to do with Ole Miss) and he got injured and he's having a hard time mentally.
Welcome to the real world. Suck it up buddy. It's called life.

You're not starting/playing because others give the team a better chance to win. It's Kiffin's job to win. Period. While Kiffin's certainly abrasive, he's not doing anything illegal. And if this kid wins millions of dollars in court because he's upset he's not playing, or if Kiffin's gets reprimanded for not being a hand holder and running his team, this world is going to go more to ****. Flood gates will open with litigation.

I agree with above poster. Be careful what you wish for as an employee.

(09-15-2023 12:54 PM)ThunderDent Wrote:  Scholarships have never been guaranteed. Only year-to-year. The dude has played in 3 games. Now he wants $30M from Ole Miss because his grandma passed away (which has nothing to do with Ole Miss) and he got injured and he's having a hard time mentally.
Welcome to the real world. Suck it up buddy. It's called life.

You're not starting/playing because others give the team a better chance to win. It's Kiffin's job to win. Period.

Well, that's just not true. Not only have the scholarships been four-year agreements several times throughout history, P5 schools voted to guarantee them back in 2015, including the SEC. In fact, Ole Miss is arguing their response to this lawsuit that the student HASN'T had his scholarship removed.

And in the real world, if your boss responds using that language to an employee who may be having a mental health challenge that has already been documented...he could be facing a lawsuit just like Ole Miss is facing.

Not saying the young man handled his business correctly. But based on that recording, I'd absolutely expect a settlement here. The grown man who makes five million+ a year has to be expected to respond differently than this.

Good info on the 4-year guarantee. Didn't know that so appreciate that.

And I concur Kiffin should have handled it differently. And him being reprimanded by the university should happen.

I just don't feel anything was done illegally necessarily. And things are likely handled (without the abrasiveness and language) the same at other schools every day.

In the real world you'd contact HR and your direct supervisor and fill out official FMLA paperwork.
Not just tell the strength coach and call that good.

(09-15-2023 10:55 AM)Crayton Wrote:  Didn’t see a thread for this yet. ESPN is reporting a lineman for Ole Miss tried to take a break from football for reasons of mental health but that the school, Kiffin, staff, did not accept that he was “in crisis.”

Recording of Kiffin saying he is not the head coach but the “boss” and that football is the lineman’s “job.”

https://www.espn.com/college-football/st...tal-health

Frankly, I'm of the opinion that lots of people -- especially young people -- use "mental health" as a crutch or an excuse for not persevering and failing to handle adversity. They're mentally soft due to my generation's parenting skills -- Gen X.

(Some people are have legit problems -- soldiers with PTSD, someone surviving a mass shooting, rape, robbery, etc. I get that.)

My guess: since this guy was a back-up defensive player, he was upset with his playing situation, didn't want to change positions or listen to coaches or lose his scholarship, so he secretly recorded Kiffin to extort Ole Miss.

(09-15-2023 03:38 PM)kurtrundell Wrote:  

(09-15-2023 10:55 AM)Crayton Wrote:  Didn’t see a thread for this yet. ESPN is reporting a lineman for Ole Miss tried to take a break from football for reasons of mental health but that the school, Kiffin, staff, did not accept that he was “in crisis.”

Recording of Kiffin saying he is not the head coach but the “boss” and that football is the lineman’s “job.”

https://www.espn.com/college-football/st...tal-health

Frankly, I'm of the opinion that lots of people -- especially young people -- use "mental health" as a crutch or an excuse for not persevering and failing to handle adversity. They're mentally soft due to my generation's parenting skills -- Gen X.

(Some people are have legit problems -- soldiers with PTSD, someone surviving a mass shooting, rape, robbery, etc. I get that.)

My guess: since this guy was a back-up defensive player, he was upset with his playing situation, didn't want to change positions or listen to coaches or lose his scholarship, so he secretly recorded Kiffin to extort Ole Miss.

Yup. The kid’s big mistake was going to ole Miss instead of Northwestern. Northwestern might have gazed him a little bit, but they’d have paid him a lot of money to go away. Ole Miss will never give him a single dime.

This is an interesting case that seems to go against all the recent cases for NIL, COA, etc.... There definitely needs to be guidlines in all of this, especially mental health.

The University will settle this out of court to clean up Kiffin’s mess.

(09-15-2023 12:07 PM)woollymammoth41 Wrote:  in 10 years if college athletes become employees... yes Kiffin would be right, but that doesn't excuse him being an ass from the quotes. Alot of student atheletes are going to have rude awakening, if that happens.
....

A lot of student athletes will get paid and have unions if that happens.

Procedures for things like this would be spelled out as part of any collective bargaining agreement.

As it is, procedures are surely already spelled out as part of the student's relationship with the school, including the scholarship acceptance. Coaches should make themselves well aware of what these procedures are. They should be able to explain procedures as well as anybody.

(09-15-2023 03:55 PM)hburg Wrote:  This is an interesting case that seems to go against all the recent cases for NIL, COA, etc.... There definitely needs to be guidlines in all of this, especially mental health.

Guidelines exist, rest assured. The question is whether the coach followed them. The Student Handbook will be an important document is settling the dispute with the student.

After that, the questions for the university will be internal.

(09-15-2023 10:16 PM)unalions Wrote:  The University will settle this out of court to clean up Kiffin’s mess.

Absolteutly - Kiffin really messed up here. You don't allow yourself to say these types of things to folks with an incentive to hate you. Very stupid by Kiffin. If it was an Assistant Coach he would be fired.