The evolution of Tribe opponents:

Year 1 on schedule: "Who?"

Three years later: "These guys again? Why? Well, I guess an easy home win is OK now and then."

Seven years later: "Why are we playing at X's place? Their stadium only seats 1500!"

Eleven years later: "I can't believe we lost to X. We had a really bad game."

Fifteen years later: "Welcome to the CAA, X."

Twenty years later: “X accepts a bid to join the Sun Belt Conference”

(09-20-2023 09:11 AM)Tribester Wrote:  Twenty years later: “X accepts a bid to join the Sun Belt Conference”

and they play in the NCAA tournament in hoops, maybe even go to the final four.

I've been around so long (as others on this board), where I recall ACC/SEC schools playing us at home in all sports. We have fallen so far since the 70s/80s.

(09-20-2023 04:10 AM)Tribe4SF Wrote:  

(09-19-2023 11:13 PM)Tribester Wrote:  If Delaware was smart they would be trying to get W&M to move with them together to the MAC. They would keep a long time rival as a travel partner in the MAC East. All the schools in the MAC are public universities that all have at least R2 status (like us) or better. Schools like Buffalo and Miami OH would love to have two strong academic institutions join their conference. UMass is not going to leave the A10 so they are not an option. We should make sure the second team is us, and not someone else like a Stony Brook for example. Cut men's gymnastics and swimming to save money for the move up to FBS. Add softball for Title IX compliance. William & Mary's profile would be raised nationally by such a move. The facilities are already at a MAC FBS level (especially when the Kaplan project is completed). Do we really want to be stuck in a conference with Bryant and Monmouth forever? If such an offer came to us we would be insane to say no.

So, are you going to cover the cost of flying to every conference away game except Delaware?

Kent State made 5.2 million on three guarantee games last year (Washington/Oklahoma/Georgia). They ONLY got 3.6 million this year for UCF/Arkansas/Fresno State. Next year they play Pitt/Penn State/Tennessee. That kinda money pays for a LOT of flights.

What do we get from ours? I'm seeing about 400k from UVA? Which would make beating them even sweeter.

I don't see the MAC as having much appeal outside of football, same with CUSA, but the numbers could certainly make sense to try to land our football team in one of those leagues. As stated before FBS football + Patriot all else like the service academies has always struck me as the best possible option for us.

Somehow Charlotte made it to the AAC...7M/year in media rights with an average fcs level team.

(09-20-2023 02:00 PM)Tribester Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 04:10 AM)Tribe4SF Wrote:  

(09-19-2023 11:13 PM)Tribester Wrote:  If Delaware was smart they would be trying to get W&M to move with them together to the MAC. They would keep a long time rival as a travel partner in the MAC East. All the schools in the MAC are public universities that all have at least R2 status (like us) or better. Schools like Buffalo and Miami OH would love to have two strong academic institutions join their conference. UMass is not going to leave the A10 so they are not an option. We should make sure the second team is us, and not someone else like a Stony Brook for example. Cut men's gymnastics and swimming to save money for the move up to FBS. Add softball for Title IX compliance. William & Mary's profile would be raised nationally by such a move. The facilities are already at a MAC FBS level (especially when the Kaplan project is completed). Do we really want to be stuck in a conference with Bryant and Monmouth forever? If such an offer came to us we would be insane to say no.

So, are you going to cover the cost of flying to every conference away game except Delaware?

Kent State made 5.2 million on three guarantee games last year (Washington/Oklahoma/Georgia). They ONLY got 3.6 million this year for UCF/Arkansas/Fresno State. Next year they play Pitt/Penn State/Tennessee. That kinda money pays for a LOT of flights.

Kent lost the first two, 56-6 and 28-6. I dont recall hearing them win any of these games from previous years.

Those are body bag games to help finance borderline FBS football. Couple that with the MACs prostitution of November games to ESPN for weeknight contests, there you have the kind of sacrifices schools make to cross that thin rubicon, low G5 vs FCS. It’s a steep price to pay for the fan base, especially those who don’t like losing (Hi Tribester!) and those who enjoy Saturdays at Zable.

Nobody minds losing to a powerhouse. People DO mind losing to Monmouth. More people would show up at Zable if we were playing bigger schools. Our athletics budget is already on par with the average MAC school. Same with facilities. People who say it can’t be done at W&M are just lying to you. They could make it work financially, they just don’t want to.

(09-20-2023 02:25 PM)W+M4TW Wrote:  What do we get from ours? I'm seeing about 400k from UVA? Which would make beating them even sweeter.

I don't see the MAC as having much appeal outside of football, same with CUSA, but the numbers could certainly make sense to try to land our football team in one of those leagues. As stated before FBS football + Patriot all else like the service academies has always struck me as the best possible option for us.

Somehow Charlotte made it to the AAC...7M/year in media rights with an average fcs level team.

FCS games pay less, since there's 120 some FCS teams (as opposed to only 60 some G5 teams), and you can only count 1 FCS win towards bowl eligibility, while you can count as many Kent States as you want.

I don't really see a big upside of the MAC, I'm not sure playing games against Bowling Green on Tuesday nights is that appealing to me. It would draw better TV numbers than our current situation, obviously, but I'm kinda indifferent to that.

I believe the new AAC members are getting more like $2 million a year, they're not getting full shares of the deal.

The shame is there really isn't a solution that gives WM a schedule that's mostly full of games fans care about.

The current CAA is bloated, and outside of like 5 teams, I'm indifferent towards everyone in the conference. The Sun Belt is in a similar boat, even if they were interested in us, the majority of matchups are just meh. I don't think playing any of the MAC schools is that exciting, maybe we could develop a rivalry with Miami, but it would feel forced. CUSA is just a hodgepodge of schools, Liberty is local, but everyone else in that conference is a dud matchup.

(09-20-2023 02:45 PM)Tribester Wrote:  Nobody minds losing to a powerhouse. People DO mind losing to Monmouth. More people would show up at Zable if we were playing bigger schools. Our athletics budget is already on par with the average MAC school. Same with facilities. People who say it can’t be done at W&M are just lying to you. They could make it work financially, they just don’t want to.

Losing to a powerhouse is one thing. Having to schedule several for budgetary reasons is different.

And you would have to convince me that Akron, Buffalo, Bowling Green and Ball State would create any greater interest than Elon, VMI, Richmond, Villanova, Maine etc among the Tribe fanbase. I don’t believe it would make any difference at all, in fact, likely worse.

People show up at Zable when we win.

Sporadically, a MAC school gets a home game against a P5 school - Ohio hosted Iowa State this weekend. 21k showed up, in a 27k stadium. They drew 18k for an FCS game, for comparison.

Someone like Kent pretty much always has 3 road buy games and 1 FCS home game as their OOC schedule. That seems pretty awful to me, more years than not they're going 1-3 OOC, and have only had one mediocre home game. Next year they play @ Pitt/Tennessee/Penn State, and host St Francis. The last time they beat an FBC opponent in OOC play was in 2014 when they beat Army.

Nobody minds losing to a powerhouse, but that type of scheduling just doesn't seem fun to me.

Could somebody just call up all the 1990’s CAA members, plus maybe Delaware, Towson and Liberty, and see if they want to get the band back together?

(09-20-2023 02:25 PM)W+M4TW Wrote:  What do we get from ours? I'm seeing about 400k from UVA? Which would make beating them even sweeter.

I don't see the MAC as having much appeal outside of football, same with CUSA, but the numbers could certainly make sense to try to land our football team in one of those leagues. As stated before FBS football + Patriot all else like the service academies has always struck me as the best possible option for us.

Somehow Charlotte made it to the AAC...7M/year in media rights with an average fcs level team.

29,000 students in a media market with 1,323,000 TV households. I'm really perplexed by posters across the CAA who can't seem to grasp that none of this conference movement has anything to do with the quality of the schools or their programs. Conferences are built on media deals and sports channels covet viewers and fans. Period. Quantity over quality every time. Charlotte, Davidson, ODU, GMU, VCU, Georgia State, JMU all have large student populations and touch on large media markets. That is what drives movement and a college is either located in a large media market or has a large following or it doesn't. End of story.

(09-20-2023 02:45 PM)Tribester Wrote:  Nobody minds losing to a powerhouse. People DO mind losing to Monmouth. More people would show up at Zable if we were playing bigger schools. Our athletics budget is already on par with the average MAC school. Same with facilities. People who say it can’t be done at W&M are just lying to you. They could make it work financially, they just don’t want to.

Amen Tribester!

(09-20-2023 03:15 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(09-20-2023 02:45 PM)Tribester Wrote:  Nobody minds losing to a powerhouse. People DO mind losing to Monmouth. More people would show up at Zable if we were playing bigger schools. Our athletics budget is already on par with the average MAC school. Same with facilities. People who say it can’t be done at W&M are just lying to you. They could make it work financially, they just don’t want to.

Losing to a powerhouse is one thing. Having to schedule several for budgetary reasons is different.

And you would have to convince me that Akron, Buffalo, Bowling Green and Ball State would create any greater interest than Elon, VMI, Richmond, Villanova, Maine etc among the Tribe fanbase. I don’t believe it would make any difference at all, in fact, likely worse.

People show up at Zable when we win.

Amen Sitting Bull!

MAC = Tuesday and Wednesday night football games

I am surprised that anyone thinks that would be a good idea for W&M.

I used to have Wake Forest seasons tickets, and the only good thing about Thursday night home games was it left my Saturday free to watch other games. As a TV viewer, I used to enjoy the ACC Thursday night games. The Friday night games haven't really caught on with me, since my wife doesn't think date night involves staying at home and watching football on TV.

I don't watch MACtion on Tuesday and Wednesday nights.

Since I cut the cord, if the game isn't on an over the air channel, I am not watching it.

The midweek games only happen in November and they are not every week. For example Kent State has two Wednesday games this year, but only one is at home. The other 9 games are on Saturday as usual. Basically trading one home Saturday game a year for nationwide TV exposure and more money on ESPN. Not the end of the world by any means.