It’s all coming together boys. With the PAC 12 destruction upon us (Arizona/ASU/Utah to Big 12, Washington Oregon Stanford Cal to Big 10), the ACC will be next. Say goodbye to FSU/Clemson/UVA/UNC to the SEC. Four more teams to the Big 12 (Virgina Tech/Pitt/Miami/Louisville). Three 20 team mega conferences. ACC down to six teams (BC/Duke/Georgia Tech/NC State/Syracuse/Wake). Time for us to finally ascend to our rightful spot in the new ACC.

I'm all in. Cut back to a reasonable number of sports that involve a ball of some sort and pool the money.

Funny, I had considered starting a thread like this (or reviving an old one). The D-I landscape is going to continue to change as the big boys consolidate into national super-conferences.

If the rump-ACC survives in some format, it is going to be looking at nearby G5 schools to pull in (regionally this means programs from the AAC, Sun Belt, CUSA). If and when the G5 gets raided we will then see action trickle down to the FCS.

I don't know what WM wants to do, but I think Delaware could be attractive backfill for a depleted CUSA, Sunbelt, or even American Conference. The loss of Delaware would represent, in my view, the departure of WM's remaining all-sports rival.

In 15 years as a fan I have yet to see WM or the "Coastal" Athletic Association improve its standing after a round of realignment, so I'm not really looking forward to what happens next. I hope I'm wrong.

In those 15 years, we mostly had an AD who was coasting along. We then got one who wanted to build big things around FB and both BB teams, but made a mess of things. It was a lot of fun listening to George Balanis. It reminded me that we clearly belonged with the ACC 50 years ago. I still hold out hope for a southern ivy league of sorts (Tribe, Georgetown, Davidson, Wake, GA Tech, Tulane, .....), but that would take too much work.

I hope President Rowe does not make the same mistake President Paschall made.

(08-03-2023 10:02 AM)tribeintexas Wrote:  I hope President Rowe does not make the same mistake President Paschall made.

Paschall didn't make the mistake....he wanted W&M to join the ACC. Unfortunately he retired before he could make it happen. His successor, Thomas Graves, is the prez who was short-sighted, anti-athletic, and who made the mistake.

I think we're passed over if the ACC is raided. More likely to pick up ECU, JMU, App State and one of Rice, Tulane, or SMU to balance out the (continued) academic loss (they already downgraded with the '13 expansion less ND).

It could open a spot for us and Delaware in the Sun Belt, however, and I say jump. Football is our only attractive feature to a G5 and we'd complement a depleted Eastern division of the SB. GSU, GA Southern, Marshall, Coastal, ODU, WM, Delaware.

(08-03-2023 10:41 AM)W+M4TW Wrote:  I think we're passed over if the ACC is raided. More likely to pick up ECU, JMU, App State and one of Rice, Tulane, or SMU to balance out the (continued) academic loss (they already downgraded with the '13 expansion less ND).

It could open a spot for us and Delaware in the Sun Belt, however, and I say jump. Football is our only attractive feature to a G5 and we'd complement a depleted Eastern division of the SB. GSU, GA Southern, Marshall, Coastal, ODU, WM, Delaware.

Are we going to play 20+ scholarships down at G5? Because if we can't fund Kaplan renovations, there's no way we can add the 20 FB scholarships, not to mention the matching 20 women's scholarships. No matter what happens with the major realignment, I'll be surprised if we're anywhere but the CAA when the music stops, unless there's no CAA anymore.

(08-03-2023 11:49 AM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  

(08-03-2023 10:41 AM)W+M4TW Wrote:  I think we're passed over if the ACC is raided. More likely to pick up ECU, JMU, App State and one of Rice, Tulane, or SMU to balance out the (continued) academic loss (they already downgraded with the '13 expansion less ND).

It could open a spot for us and Delaware in the Sun Belt, however, and I say jump. Football is our only attractive feature to a G5 and we'd complement a depleted Eastern division of the SB. GSU, GA Southern, Marshall, Coastal, ODU, WM, Delaware.

Are we going to play 20+ scholarships down at G5? Because if we can't fund Kaplan renovations, there's no way we can add the 20 FB scholarships, not to mention the matching 20 women's scholarships. No matter what happens with the major realignment, I'll be surprised if we're anywhere but the CAA when the music stops, unless there's no CAA anymore.

Sun Belt is great for football but a delusion due to Title IX. A10 is a dream for MBB. CAA is reality.

I can confirm from personal conversation with Dr Paschall the ACC was a reality that Graves killed.

It is an interesting what if, but I also have to imagine the ACC of today looks different had we joined ~50 years back.

(08-03-2023 10:10 AM)Zorch Wrote:  

(08-03-2023 10:02 AM)tribeintexas Wrote:  I hope President Rowe does not make the same mistake President Paschall made.

Paschall didn't make the mistake....he wanted W&M to join the ACC. Unfortunately he retired before he could make it happen. His successor, Thomas Graves, is the prez who was short-sighted, anti-athletic, and who made the mistake.

OK thanks for correcting my mistake

(08-03-2023 12:46 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  It is an interesting what if, but I also have to imagine the ACC of today looks different had we joined ~50 years back.

What truly would be hard to imagine is how being in the ACC would have reshaped W&M. We routinely played ACC opponents in the 70’s.


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(08-03-2023 07:49 PM)wmmii Wrote:  

(08-03-2023 12:46 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  It is an interesting what if, but I also have to imagine the ACC of today looks different had we joined ~50 years back.

What truly would be hard to imagine is how being in the ACC would have reshaped W&M. We routinely played ACC opponents in the 70’s.


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Imagine Wake Forest with better academics.

(08-03-2023 11:12 PM)Blow Gym rat Wrote:  

(08-03-2023 07:49 PM)wmmii Wrote:  

(08-03-2023 12:46 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  It is an interesting what if, but I also have to imagine the ACC of today looks different had we joined ~50 years back.

What truly would be hard to imagine is how being in the ACC would have reshaped W&M. We routinely played ACC opponents in the 70’s.


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Imagine Wake Forest with better academics.

In that case the Tribe would never win.

(08-04-2023 12:54 PM)NC Tribe Wrote:  

(08-03-2023 11:12 PM)Blow Gym rat Wrote:  

(08-03-2023 07:49 PM)wmmii Wrote:  

(08-03-2023 12:46 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  It is an interesting what if, but I also have to imagine the ACC of today looks different had we joined ~50 years back.

What truly would be hard to imagine is how being in the ACC would have reshaped W&M. We routinely played ACC opponents in the 70’s.


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Imagine Wake Forest with better academics.

In that case the Tribe would never win.

there is room in the Pac 12 now. Could be renamed to the "Coastal 12"!!!

Gap between haves and have nots widens further in FBS landscape. I maintain that WM should focus on being a perennial top 10 FCS program, but not in the hopes of moving to FBS. I see the ultimate outcome of the realignment is a return to regional conferences for those FBS programs/conferences hemorrhaging cash. UMass, UConn, Buffalo, Charlotte, Georgia State, Temple and ODU are all candidates for either dropping down to FCS or folding tent that would fit (geographically) in the CAA.

I pretty much agree with this take. College sports is being devastated by greed and short-sided pursuit of money that ultimately won’t be there. (See the collapse of the business models for both linear TV and streaming.)

We are not far from a bifurcation into 60-80 semi-pro sports entities and a larger group that returns to a more modest, regional amateur model.

We belong in that latter camp.

(08-07-2023 07:35 AM)tribeinexile Wrote:  I pretty much agree with this take. College sports is being devastated by greed and short-sided pursuit of money that ultimately won’t be there. (See the collapse of the business models for both linear TV and streaming.)

We are not far from a bifurcation into 60-80 semi-pro sports entities and a larger group that returns to a more modest, regional amateur model.

We belong in that latter camp.

Agreed that we belong in the regional amateur model. I hope that our place is in the top tier of that level.

(08-07-2023 12:01 AM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  Gap between haves and have nots widens further in FBS landscape. I maintain that WM should focus on being a perennial top 10 FCS program, but not in the hopes of moving to FBS. I see the ultimate outcome of the realignment is a return to regional conferences for those FBS programs/conferences hemorrhaging cash. UMass, UConn, Buffalo, Charlotte, Georgia State, Temple and ODU are all candidates for either dropping down to FCS or folding tent that would fit (geographically) in the CAA.

My first thought was "no one will ever drop down" but this article on Rutgers shows what an absolute disaster this realignment is going to be for some schools: https://theathletic.com/4748780/2023/08/...t-rutgers/

It's paywalled, but the tl;dr is Rutgers can't fund its already in debt athletic department and has outstanding loans they took against future earnings. They're one of four B1G programs that uses university funding (Illinois, Maryland, and Minnesota being the other three). They're now stuck with 4 west coast opponents. If this is the case for a recent, but not brand new, B1G member, I have to imagine this is the case for all the new CUSA and SB members, and it's probably even worse. The CAA looks pretty appealing in contrast, certainly for football.

Universities are willing to spend big on athletic programs because they view them as marketing, and also as a means to boost alumni and community engagement. Furthermore, fielding top flight athletics programs diversifies the student body (not simply a statement about race or SES, but also the personalities and characteristics common to elite athletes). The ROI isn’t going to be fully captured on an athletic department balance sheet.

There is a limit to this line of thinking of course, but there’s also a reason almost every college athletic program down to D-III loses money on paper and yet continues to exist indefinitely.