It’s a little odd that a Big 10 guy’s fantasy realignment involves the SEC getting 4 home runs in 1990 while the Big 10 doesn’t land ND.

(06-18-2023 07:45 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  It’s a little odd that a Big 10 guy’s fantasy realignment involves the SEC getting 4 home runs in 1990 while the Big 10 doesn’t land ND.

Totally forgot about that one (embarrassed). I was more concerned about the Pennsylvania, Florida, and Texas rivalries and forgot about the Indiana ones

I guess if Notre Dame gets added with Penn State and Pittsburgh (that part's not negotiable) the Big 10 could use a 14th. Then again they did have 11 for a long time in real life. Maybe they steal Maryland? Maybe Syracuse? Syracuse did have an undefeated regular season in the late 80's and was probably the best Northeastern football school outside of Penn State back then and at that point they were still AAU (of course at the time Notre Dame wasn't but they're ND). Then the ACC probably has no use for just Boston College without Syracuse. Maybe the Big Ten adds them too and it's a conference of 15??

(06-18-2023 07:00 AM)schmolik Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 01:42 PM)inutech Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 01:23 PM)schmolik Wrote:  If Florida State and Miami never join the ACC, the only football first in the ACC school is Clemson, this is way before Dabo gets there, this is before Michael Vick gets to Blacksburg,

If you've set this around 1990, doesn't it also include that season's (co)-champion?

GT is football first.

And wasn't Virginia better at football back then (relative to more recent history)?

Georgia Tech also made the Final Four in men's basketball in 1990.

I also remember that Ga. Tech team being so disrespected that they shared the national title with a Colorado team that had a loss and a tie and won a game despite getting a fifth down. They were so disrespected that they played #13 Nebraska in the Citrus Bowl. Shouldn't the #2 team in the country get a better opponent? And was that year a fluke? In 1987 and 1988, Tech was a combined 0-13 in the ACC (and we're talking ACC football here) and 5-17 overall. Then after Bobby Ross left, two 5-6's and a 1-10 in 1994. Now they make bowl games annually but it's the ACC when you only have to win three ACC games, two G5's, and 1 FCS to make a bowl game (since it's Tech they have to play UGa every year).

I still think (then and now) that GT is "football first."

(06-16-2023 08:08 AM)schmolik Wrote:  In many of my fantasy realignments I have wanted to completely realign and completely start over, ignoring decade conference alignments. For this one, I've decided only to go back to the 90's and start from there. Obviously a lot has changed since then I definitely have plenty of wiggle room and the landscape can still be way different than it is today.

First proposals:

Big Ten adds Penn State and Pittsburgh. This keeps the PSU-Pitt rivalry and gives the Big Ten two teams in the East instead of one.

SEC adds Florida State and Miami in Florida and Texas and Texas A&M in Texas. They go big on both states. South Carolina and Arkansas are not added.

ACC adds Syracuse and Boston College. They allow the ACC to expand north, give the ACC an additional strong men's basketball member in Syracuse when Jim Boeheim was younger and take (at the time) the two remaining Big East members who play football.

The ACC is up to 10, the Big Ten 12, and the SEC 14. The SEC and Big Ten are able to start conference championship games.

SEC Divisions:
East: Florida, Florida State, Miami, Georgia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
West: Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, LSU, Texas, Texas A&M

Big Ten Divisions:
East: Penn State, Pittsburgh, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana
West: Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa

The Big 8 remains intact but has no incentive to expand without Texas or Texas A&M.

The SWC without Texas/Texas A&M but with Arkansas would be down to seven but none of their members would be that popular for any major conference.

The Big East would be down to just six with the three football teams (Pittsburgh, Syracuse, and Boston College) leaving for greener pastures and without them or Miami coming in they have no incentive to start Big East football. They certainly could raid the Atlantic 10 or go after other independents (at the time going after non Northeastern schools might not have been a thing). UMass was up and coming in men's basketball, they could have been a target with Boston College leaving. Virginia Commonwealth and Charlotte were added to the Metro after Cincinnati and Memphis left for the Great Midwest. At the time the Big East went as far south as DC. Would Richmond and Charlotte been too far south for the Big East way back in the early 1990's? Could the Big East have made a play for Virginia Tech and Louisville (too far west?)? Does Villanova relent and let Temple in (beggars can't be choosers)? Duquesne could replace Pittsburgh but Duquesne sucked in men's basketball (still does).

Another possibility would be for the ACC and Big East in 1990 to just form a super conference of 16 members and 10 football members. They'd have the entire Atlantic coast locked down from Boston (BC) to Atlanta (Georgia Tech) and North Carolina, Duke, Georgetown, Syracuse, Villanova, and UConn in the same conference in men's basketball.

Here's a list of 1989 Division 1-A college football independents:
Miami (FL), Notre Dame, Florida State, Northern Illinois, Penn State, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Syracuse, Southwestern Louisiana, Akron, South Carolina, Virginia Tech, Louisiana Tech, Army, Louisville, East Carolina, Tulsa, Southern Miss, Tulane,
Navy, Rutgers, Boston College, Memphis State, Cincinnati, Temple

So in my scenario Penn State and Pittsburgh head to the Big Ten, Miami and Florida State to the SEC, and Boston College and Syracuse to the SEC. I'll assume Notre Dame, Army, and Navy don't join conferences and Akron and Northern Illinois eventually join the Mid American. That leaves West Virginia, Louisiana, South Carolina, Virginia Tech, Louisiana Tech, Louisville, East Carolina, Tulsa, Southern Miss, Tulane, Rutgers, Memphis State, Cincinnati, Temple

West Virginia, Rutgers, and Temple were A-10 members otherwise.

Cincinnati, Louisville, Memphis State, South Carolina, Virginia Tech, Southern Miss, and Tulane were Metro members otherwise (Florida State was the 8th member but was headed to the ACC, SEC in my scenario. In the real world, South Carolina would be headed to the SEC but in my scenario they're stuck here).

Tulsa was a MVC member otherwise.

Louisiana Tech and Southwest Louisiana were in the American South from 1987 to 1991.

East Carolina was a Colonial member otherwise.

Probably the easiest scenarios (football/non football):

The Big 8, Pac 10, and WAC remain intact.

The SWC backfills with Louisiana Tech, SW Louisiana, and Tulsa (beggars can't be choosers).

The rumored Metro football conference forms although much smaller than the original proposed one. It's the seven 1989 Metro members minus FSU, A-10 members Temple, Rutgers, and Virginia Tech, and Colonial member East Carolina. The schools decide to stay in their regular conferences for other sports for now. The Great Midwest never forms, DePaul joins the Midwestern Collegiate (now Horizon League) instead.

Big East (assuming the ACC and Big East don't merge)? They backfill with UMass, VCU, and Charlotte.

Later years:

With the SEC already having the top Florida and Texas schools locked down, they really don't have any need to expand beyond 14 members.

The Big 8 without Texas is certainly more harmonious. Nebraska-Oklahoma remains a strong rivalry as does Nebraska-Colorado. Nebraska has no desire to escape Texas and join the Big 10 and the Big 10 with Pittsburgh already as the 12th member has no desire to add Nebraska. Could we see a Pac 10/Big 8 merge to counter the Big 10 and SEC? Maybe in response the Big 10 then tries to raid the ACC to expand their Northeast presence.

Assuming no ACC/Big East merger, the Big East never adds football or West Virginia, Rutgers, Cincinnati, or Louisville. Maybe Connecticut never goes Division 1-A/FBS in football.

Texas and A&M were blocked from joining the Big 8 without bringing little brothers along. Why would they have been allowed to join the SEC?

(06-19-2023 12:40 PM)Just Joe Wrote:  Texas and A&M were blocked from joining the Big 8 without bringing little brothers along. Why would they have been allowed to join the SEC?

Because this is a fantasy thread.

Besides as I mentioned it could have been done before Bob Bullock became lieutenant governor.

(06-19-2023 02:08 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(06-19-2023 12:40 PM)Just Joe Wrote:  Texas and A&M were blocked from joining the Big 8 without bringing little brothers along. Why would they have been allowed to join the SEC?

Because this is a fantasy thread.

Besides as I mentioned it could have been done before Bob Bullock became lieutenant governor.

Frank Broyles worked to get them to come with us for three years but they hemmed and hawed with the PAC too long.

(06-16-2023 12:07 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(06-16-2023 11:57 AM)Phlipper33 Wrote:  I think in that situation the Big 8 expands with Arkansas, and probably stops there for at least a decade. Could eventually expand into Texas likely with Tech and TCU assuming head coaches aren't changed and both teams find sustained success with Patterson and Leach. Colorado would probably still flirt with the Pac 10, but I'm not sure they actually jump.

The big 8 was already in trouble in the 90's, that's why they looked to merge with the SWC (Texas was the sole dissenting vote from either conference on a full merger). CU and Nebraska still would have left, followed quickly by OU/Arkansas to the SEC.

This is the first I’ve ever heard about a full merger—most everything I’ve read has been quite the contrary—the Big 8 only wanted Texas and TAMU and had Tech and Baylor pushed on them.

I personally like the Big 12 and thought it was a nice set up—if anything, I think they should have considered admitting BYU and TCU.

(06-19-2023 02:08 PM)schmolik Wrote:  

(06-19-2023 12:40 PM)Just Joe Wrote:  Texas and A&M were blocked from joining the Big 8 without bringing little brothers along. Why would they have been allowed to join the SEC?

Because this is a fantasy thread.

Besides as I mentioned it could have been done before Bob Bullock became lieutenant governor.

Bullock’s predecessor was Bill Hobby, who was in the role for nearly 20 years. Hobby was (and still is, he’s 91) a Houston political legend. Rice grad, went on to be UH System chancellor, airport’s named after his father. So if the big 2 tried to bolt on his watch, he’d likely have used his influence to lobby for Houston.

For that matter the longtime Speaker of the House in this time period was Gib Lewis, who was said to have been the most powerful man in Austin. Lewis had retired after scandal in 92 so he wasn’t around to influence the Big 12. He’s a TCU grad.

So in your hypothetical, TCU and Houston would’ve had strong backers. Maybe they get in instead. Ultimately, I think Bullock’s role is an oversimplification. The legislature had plenty of Baylor and Tech alums who would’ve gone to work to block the move until those two get their spots.

(06-19-2023 05:14 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I personally like the Big 12 and thought it was a nice set up—if anything, I think they should have considered admitting BYU and TCU.

Counter proposal - Have the Big10 add the 5 AAU schools (at that time) from the Big8, for a total of 16, and the other 3 join the SWC. Plus BYU, at your suggestion : )

new Big10 - 16
Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State
Indiana, Purdue, Northwestern, Illinois
Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Iowa State
Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, Colorado

new SWC-Big12 - 12
BYU, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Arkansas
Baylor, Rice, Southern Methodist, Texas A&M, Texas Christian, Texas Tech, and Texas


The Big10 might add schools later (to mollify Penn State), but they're already at 16, so who knows, they might not.

And the SWC may lose a few later to the SEC, but as we now know, there are backfill options.