(05-15-2023 10:02 AM)CFBLurker Wrote:  If the Big 12 can't expand with Pac schools it makes sense for them to go full speed as a basketball super league and split the rights.

I think the Big 12 knows expanding with P5 schools is dependent on factors outside their control and may not happen. Makes sense to control what you can

Big 12 with Gonzaga and UConn added would be very well-placed to split off their basketball rights. Yormark would certainly have an idea about where the BE rights are headed in a few years.

I have to just throw this in here, but UConn and Gonzaga are also nice Academic additions to the big 12.

If going to 16 instead of 14? Memphis +1 (assuming in this scenario that SDSU chooses the Pac)...perhaps another current BE school? That way they'd have 14 all sports members and 2 non-FB members. Who is #16? St John's? Villanova? Probably someone in the NE, though Marquette could make some sense.

Memphis is the only possible addition with poor academics, but with several other quality adds it would balance out, and they are definitely focused on improving their Academic profile long term.

What is the earliest date someone could leave the B12 and not go bankrupt?

(05-15-2023 01:15 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  What is the earliest date someone could leave the B12 and not go bankrupt?

If you mean the Grant of Rights, that probably runs for the same term as the TV contract, through 2031.

(05-15-2023 08:45 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  How do the Big 12, Pac-12 and ACC keep up while generating millions less than the SEC and Big Ten? Some believe all three of them cannot co-exist successfully.

Ross Dellenger of Sports Illustrated reports.

The article, in part:

In one corner was the Pac-12, an array of broad-based universities, betrayed by their Los Angeles defectors and now at the mercy of media networks to prevent further departures.

In the other corner is the Big 12, an expanding group of universities, spanning Utah to Florida, with a brash commissioner whose aggressive nature makes him a territorial threat to the West.

The juxtaposition of the scene was fascinating—a mere 20 feet of carpet separating the two meetings within a labyrinth of convention space at the Hyatt Regency Gainey Ranch.

Within the meeting rooms, each league’s strategy unfolded ahead of their proverbial territorial battle. Just paces from the Pac-12’s gathering, Big 12 leaders discussed a list of expansion targets, four of them residing in the Pac-12: Colorado, Arizona, Arizona State and Utah.

Other targets are from a variety of leagues: San Diego State and UNLV from the Mountain West; UConn, which is independent in football and in the Big East in basketball; and Memphis, from the American. There are others too, such as Colorado State, SMU and Fresno, but they seem further down the pecking order.

The Pac-12, meanwhile, discussed its own expansion possibilities: San Diego State and SMU.

“It could be an active summer,” says one administrator with knowledge of the discussions.

https://www.si.com/college/2023/05/15/co...onferences

I think the people at Baylor are pushing for Boise State to join. One of their leaders there used to be in the leadership at Baylor.

(05-15-2023 01:59 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-15-2023 08:45 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  How do the Big 12, Pac-12 and ACC keep up while generating millions less than the SEC and Big Ten? Some believe all three of them cannot co-exist successfully.

Ross Dellenger of Sports Illustrated reports.

The article, in part:

In one corner was the Pac-12, an array of broad-based universities, betrayed by their Los Angeles defectors and now at the mercy of media networks to prevent further departures.

In the other corner is the Big 12, an expanding group of universities, spanning Utah to Florida, with a brash commissioner whose aggressive nature makes him a territorial threat to the West.

The juxtaposition of the scene was fascinating—a mere 20 feet of carpet separating the two meetings within a labyrinth of convention space at the Hyatt Regency Gainey Ranch.

Within the meeting rooms, each league’s strategy unfolded ahead of their proverbial territorial battle. Just paces from the Pac-12’s gathering, Big 12 leaders discussed a list of expansion targets, four of them residing in the Pac-12: Colorado, Arizona, Arizona State and Utah.

Other targets are from a variety of leagues: San Diego State and UNLV from the Mountain West; UConn, which is independent in football and in the Big East in basketball; and Memphis, from the American. There are others too, such as Colorado State, SMU and Fresno, but they seem further down the pecking order.

The Pac-12, meanwhile, discussed its own expansion possibilities: San Diego State and SMU.

“It could be an active summer,” says one administrator with knowledge of the discussions.

https://www.si.com/college/2023/05/15/co...onferences

I think the people at Baylor are pushing for Boise State to join. One of their leaders there used to be in the leadership at Baylor.

David,

What's going on here?

Quote:Within the meeting rooms, each league’s strategy unfolded ahead of their proverbial territorial battle. Just paces from the Pac-12’s gathering, Big 12 leaders discussed a list of expansion targets, four of them residing in the Pac-12: Colorado, Arizona, Arizona State and Utah.

Other targets are from a variety of leagues: San Diego State and UNLV from the Mountain West; UConn, which is independent in football and in the Big East in basketball; and Memphis, from the American. There are others, too, such as Colorado State, SMU and Fresno, but they seem further down the pecking order.

(05-15-2023 09:53 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  

(05-15-2023 09:35 AM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  

(05-15-2023 09:26 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(05-15-2023 08:50 AM)CFBLurker Wrote:  The reality where the ACC 7 break off to form a new league would be insane.

What becomes of BC and Wake? For that matter, Syracuse, Pitt, and Lousville?

My guess is hope you get lucky in the Big 12 and if not, raid the AAC to get back to 10-12 members. If that's not valuable, look at the Big East and see if they're willing to add a few members (would probably just add the founding members).

I'm going to project a little bit, but we could have some interesting developments with Stanford/Cal and Cuse' (and has already occurred with UConn), where the priority isn't football. WF/Duke to a lesser extent.

There could be some interest in a national league for football only, as opposed to joining a withering ACC, if just for scheduling purposes.

Cuse' and UConn play Big East. Duke and WF join the SEC in Olympics. Stanford Cal maybe become affiliates among the MWC, Big West, and Big 12, or even the B1G for select sports, with the Big West serving as their primary home.

A D-I football conference with Cuse', UConn, Army, Navy, Stanford, Cal, Duke, WF Rice, Tulane, AFA makes a lot of sense. Football is clearly not a top 1-2 priority at any of these schools, and much like Ivy League, that model could still be viable at the D-I level.

Instead of trying to reconstitute the ACC, the
elite private schools would be better off creating a coast to coast conference where it's members create endowments to fund Athletics rather than chasing the never ending media deals. Imagine a world 25 years from know where the following schools have Billion dollar endowments that allow them to fund their athletic department like Ohio State. It's the only way they can keep pace with the P2 in perpetuity. It would the elitist of all conferences and could even surpass the Ivy League in academic snobbery. If things don't go well with the B1G, USC would fit this model to a T.

Duke
WF
BC
Rice
Vandy
Tulane
Miami
Notre Dame
Stanford
USC
Cal
Gonzaga*

(05-15-2023 10:34 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(05-15-2023 10:29 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(05-15-2023 09:56 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(05-15-2023 09:54 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  So, much to chew on in Ross' fine article:

No. 1: Who are the Greedy 7 that "subset of seven ACC schools that has coalesced over what many of them describe as an untenable situation" as Ross characterizes the situation?

Dellinger gives us four:
1. FSU
2. Clemson
3. Miami
4. UNC (so much to unpack here )

We also know it's not the "We're Just Happy To Be Here 3" aka BC, Syracuse and Wake.

It also seems very unlikely the part-timers at ND are sitting in on these discussions since their long-term (or maybe it's near-term) mission is unlikely to line up with those of FSU, Clemson, et al. Can't imagine the Dookies asking for a seat at this table, either.

So that leaves us with ...

5. UVA?
6. Virginia Tech?
7. NC State?

Or perhaps a Georgia Tech, a Louisville or a Pitt is in the mix instead?

Fascinating stuff ....

I wouldn't rule out Notre Dame as one of the 7. They'd want to be involved in shaping their destiny and getting their Big Ten (or I guess SEC) spot

I don't think ND is in this group because they are simply complete unvarnished fanatics about independence.

If there's going to be a two-conference breakaway, which tearing up the ACC points to, that may meet Notre Dame's conditions for dropping independence.

1. Championship access. There is no CFP contract past 2025.
2. Television network. No NBC contract past 2025.
3. Financial viability. Again, no TV contract past 2025.

But I don't think the ACC-7 is about a new league. I think it's about jsut breaking the ACC so that the ACC-7 can get Super Two invites.

Ain't nobody getting SEC / Big Ten money but the SEC and the Big Ten.

So you could be right, the ACC-7 could be a Zany Scheme ™ that will crash and burn on the rocks of one reality or another.

They should have asked us first. :Biggrin:

Wonder if this is similar to USC threatening to go indy before they went B1G???

(05-15-2023 01:15 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  What is the earliest date someone could leave the B12 and not go bankrupt?

The 10-meter target in conference realignment is SDSU and a potential move from the MWC to the Pac-12.

The Aztecs need to give notice of a move from the MWC before July 1, 2023 to be able to move to the Pac-12 for 2024 at the cost of a $17 million exit fee. Less time than that would require three times that amount, $51 million.

(05-15-2023 12:52 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  

(05-15-2023 12:20 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  I could see some of the PAC schools being interested, but I'd stick with our current poor ACC situation before signing up for that. I can't imagine it would move the needle enough on payouts.

It shouldn’t take that much imagination.

The ACCN currently splits an in-footprint population of 96M 14 ways.

In this configuration the ACCN would split an in-footprint population of 167M 14 ways. Looking at roughly a 75% increase in ACCN revenue with this configuration.

15 ways. ND gets a full share of ACC Network profits.

(05-15-2023 02:45 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(05-15-2023 01:59 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-15-2023 08:45 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  How do the Big 12, Pac-12 and ACC keep up while generating millions less than the SEC and Big Ten? Some believe all three of them cannot co-exist successfully.

Ross Dellenger of Sports Illustrated reports.

The article, in part:

In one corner was the Pac-12, an array of broad-based universities, betrayed by their Los Angeles defectors and now at the mercy of media networks to prevent further departures.

In the other corner is the Big 12, an expanding group of universities, spanning Utah to Florida, with a brash commissioner whose aggressive nature makes him a territorial threat to the West.

The juxtaposition of the scene was fascinating—a mere 20 feet of carpet separating the two meetings within a labyrinth of convention space at the Hyatt Regency Gainey Ranch.

Within the meeting rooms, each league’s strategy unfolded ahead of their proverbial territorial battle. Just paces from the Pac-12’s gathering, Big 12 leaders discussed a list of expansion targets, four of them residing in the Pac-12: Colorado, Arizona, Arizona State and Utah.

Other targets are from a variety of leagues: San Diego State and UNLV from the Mountain West; UConn, which is independent in football and in the Big East in basketball; and Memphis, from the American. There are others too, such as Colorado State, SMU and Fresno, but they seem further down the pecking order.

The Pac-12, meanwhile, discussed its own expansion possibilities: San Diego State and SMU.

“It could be an active summer,” says one administrator with knowledge of the discussions.

https://www.si.com/college/2023/05/15/co...onferences

I think the people at Baylor are pushing for Boise State to join. One of their leaders there used to be in the leadership at Baylor.

David,

What's going on here?

Quote:Within the meeting rooms, each league’s strategy unfolded ahead of their proverbial territorial battle. Just paces from the Pac-12’s gathering, Big 12 leaders discussed a list of expansion targets, four of them residing in the Pac-12: Colorado, Arizona, Arizona State and Utah.

Other targets are from a variety of leagues: San Diego State and UNLV from the Mountain West; UConn, which is independent in football and in the Big East in basketball; and Memphis, from the American. There are others, too, such as Colorado State, SMU and Fresno, but they seem further down the pecking order.

Mac Rhodes on 365 Sports last week mentioned a lot about Boise State still brings more to the table than other G5 schools left out their because they do still have the ratings. I think the writers wanted to leave Boise State out, and forced schools that will not get invited because they lack fan support like UNLV, Colorado, Colorado State and Arizona.

(05-15-2023 10:17 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(05-15-2023 09:06 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  One thing seems very clear, the Big 12 is intent on expanding, with (preferably) or without the Four Corners.

I'm still baffled as their media rights contract only guaranteed pro rata for P5 adds, but here's yet another source saying G5 schools are being considered.

I mean, they're talking about the possibilities of a former AQ conference current BB champ, BB runner up w/ new and adequate facilities in a sizable market, and the best combined FB/BB g5 program left... the networks might not wanna pay pro-rata for UConn/SDSU/Memphis, but they'll pay close enough to it to avoid expansion w/ OSU/WSU/WF/BC for a guaranteed pro-rata (at least on ESPNs side of the B12 contract)

(05-15-2023 12:12 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  I don’t see what is so revelatory about this piece other than the assertion that the cohort of ACC schools looking for an out is specifically 7, and that a new conference is a consideration.

The first part is not so earth-shattering because anyone could surmise that there would be a number somewhere between 2 and 12 looking for an out with better long term financial prospects outside the ACC.

The mention of a new conference is sort of intriguing. While some people have postulated that whichever M-level conference gets set up in the TV rights rodeo will eventually absorb the leftbehinds of the other M-level conferences, I think it’s clear that the PAC, B12, and ACC all carry some excess that wouldn’t make a “best-of” cut.

7 is clearly not enough for a new conference, but in this odd (and highly improbable) scenario, who else do the 7 associate with? As much fun as trying to guess the 7.

How about:
FSU, GT, Clemson, UNC, UVA, Pitt, Syracuse
UW, UO, Cal, Stanford, CU, UU, ASU.

Buy out the other 7 and push them to the B12 while turning the ACC into a balanced E-W conference with minimal market redundancy in order to maximize the costing ACCN distributions.

So Duke/Miami to B1G and NCSt/VT to SEC then? BC/WF/Louisville to B12?

(05-15-2023 01:28 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(05-15-2023 01:15 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  What is the earliest date someone could leave the B12 and not go bankrupt?

If you mean the Grant of Rights, that probably runs for the same term as the TV contract, through 2031.

Yep, the Big 12 schools are locked in, just like the ACC schools.