(05-25-2023 09:25 AM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  Speaking of the NIL, I spoke to Cig for a while at the Caravan and he believes the NIL collective is more important than anything right now to keep the momentum of the football program.

The company line was to support the Duke Club scholarships first and then give additional money, if you can, to the NIL collective. Cig believes the NIL collective is more important at this time of JMU is going to retain good players. It isn’t the recruiting, it is the retention.

I just don't know how we can ever compete with the P5.

I guess if you're talking a backup at Ol Miss (perhaps a top 40 on their team) versus a top 2 on our team. Maybe a top 2 in the sunbelt can make more than a top 40 on a P5 team.

i think some of these numbers that get quoted for NIL are exagerrated.

You can't tell me Ole Miss collective is going to give a 1 year rental $400,000 and not take care of their "own" guys who may or may not have more than 1 year left at least that much.

if you figure at least 50 guys are getting NIL money on a P5 roster, some more than Ukwu, some less, but let's use him as an average.

that's $400,000 * 50 = $20,000,000 per year. On top of what these same boosters give to the regular school fund raiser.

I call BS. No way the money is that high. I think guys may be "promised" that much. but we all know how promises are.

wasn't it just a month or two ago that highly recruited QB was "promised" millions to go to Miami but then once he got there realized it was an empty promise. The money wasn't really there. I think he has since ended up at Georgia.

Carmax needs to use our players to advertise for them on national commercials.

(05-25-2023 09:25 AM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  Speaking of the NIL, I spoke to Cig for a while at the Caravan and he believes the NIL collective is more important than anything right now to keep the momentum of the football program.

The company line was to support the Duke Club scholarships first and then give additional money, if you can, to the NIL collective. Cig believes the NIL collective is more important at this time of JMU is going to retain good players. It isn’t the recruiting, it is the retention.

From last night's CC I got the sense they were saying they're both equally important, we appreciate what you give but will need both funds filled and we also need more people giving. Coach Cignetti should know his program has been well funded and facilities largely appropriate, the bigger difference is the NIL enticing his top talent.

(05-25-2023 09:48 AM)Dukester Wrote:  Carmax needs to use our players to advertise for them on national commercials.

Great idea! I also think the NIL collective should really be hitting the corporate sponsors hard. Those of us individuals giving to the Duke Club do so with the levels and relevant access in mind, that doesn't matter as much to the companies, their advertising expense is advertising expense whether it goes to the DC or MC.

Would be interesting to know how much each of the various Sunbelt NIL campaigns collect this year. Hope that information is available, although since it's separate from the schools the information will likely be hard to get in total. We'll likely hear about a couple individual NIL contracts....

(05-25-2023 08:03 AM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  Is that a guaranteed $250K or with incentives it could reach $250K?

Either way, you know they weren't making sure the student athlete understood the fine print before they signed.

(05-25-2023 09:45 AM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  i think some of these numbers that get quoted for NIL are exagerrated.

You can't tell me Ole Miss collective is going to give a 1 year rental $400,000 and not take care of their "own" guys who may or may not have more than 1 year left at least that much.

if you figure at least 50 guys are getting NIL money on a P5 roster, some more than Ukwu, some less, but let's use him as an average.

that's $400,000 * 50 = $20,000,000 per year. On top of what these same boosters give to the regular school fund raiser.

I call BS. No way the money is that high. I think guys may be "promised" that much. but we all know how promises are.

wasn't it just a month or two ago that highly recruited QB was "promised" millions to go to Miami but then once he got there realized it was an empty promise. The money wasn't really there. I think he has since ended up at Georgia.

One thing I do know is that I've worked long enough to know that employees talk to each other about what they make. All it takes is a one year transfer coming in and saying "they're paying me $400k!" and I promise you every player on that ole miss roster who is making $399,999 or less will be putting their name in the portal asap.

People always think they're not paid enough if their perceived peer is making more than them. They could be making a million a year, but johnny is making $2M so it's "not fair".

Coach Cignetti also mentioned that in 2024 the scholarships will be 4-year deals, no longer 1-year deals that are renewed. The 2 b-ball coaches each mentioned they've had players in the past they either nudged out or were happy were jumping into the portal.

(05-25-2023 11:20 AM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  Coach Cignetti also mentioned that in 2024 the scholarships will be 4-year deals, no longer 1-year deals that are renewed. The 2 b-ball coaches each mentioned they've had players in the past they either nudged out or were happy were jumping into the portal.

I'm aware of nudging for 3 decades at JMUs.

(05-25-2023 09:34 AM)Dukester Wrote:  

(05-25-2023 09:25 AM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  Speaking of the NIL, I spoke to Cig for a while at the Caravan and he believes the NIL collective is more important than anything right now to keep the momentum of the football program.

The company line was to support the Duke Club scholarships first and then give additional money, if you can, to the NIL collective. Cig believes the NIL collective is more important at this time of JMU is going to retain good players. It isn’t the recruiting, it is the retention.

I just don't know how we can ever compete with the P5.

I guess if you're talking a backup at Ol Miss (perhaps a top 40 on their team) versus a top 2 on our team. Maybe a top 2 in the sunbelt can make more than a top 40 on a P5 team.

I don't think the current goal is to compete against P5 for new transfers (solely on NIL).

I think main goal is to get the Ukwu types $ABC so when a P5 comes around with $ABC x3 or x4, we can get up to $ABC x2 and hopefully retain them because of other factors outweigh the higher NIL.

Prior to that point, hopefully $ABC keeps them out of the portal from the start. Ukwu, Juice, and DTD knew they would get more than $0, but what was the amount that would have kept them from ever looking and can we offer that?

5+ years ago a JMU fundraiser was direct when I asked about competing options for donations b/w general fund and endowment, "Give to the general fund yearly until you hit $X (I honestly forget maybe it was $10k?) and then give amounts above that to endowment." It would be nice to know Bourne and coaches thoughts for what is best and how that may shift in next year or so (i.e., I bet they prefer NIL money the next few months so they can start getting it into athlete's pockets ASAP).

(05-25-2023 09:58 AM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(05-25-2023 09:48 AM)Dukester Wrote:  Carmax needs to use our players to advertise for them on national commercials.

Great idea! I also think the NIL collective should really be hitting the corporate sponsors hard. Those of us individuals giving to the Duke Club do so with the levels and relevant access in mind, that doesn't matter as much to the companies, their advertising expense is advertising expense whether it goes to the DC or MC.

How does the 501c3 status comes into play with corporates? Carmax isn't going to risk giving to a 501c3 and having the IRS come say "whoaaa that's advertising spend, not a donation." Perhaps they give to a 501c3 and don't try to claim it so the non-profit status doesn't really matter.

(05-25-2023 11:59 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(05-25-2023 09:58 AM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(05-25-2023 09:48 AM)Dukester Wrote:  Carmax needs to use our players to advertise for them on national commercials.

Great idea! I also think the NIL collective should really be hitting the corporate sponsors hard. Those of us individuals giving to the Duke Club do so with the levels and relevant access in mind, that doesn't matter as much to the companies, their advertising expense is advertising expense whether it goes to the DC or MC.

How does the 501c3 status comes into play with corporates? Carmax isn't going to risk giving to a 501c3 and having the IRS come say "whoaaa that's advertising spend, not a donation." Perhaps they give to a 501c3 and don't try to claim it so the non-profit status doesn't really matter.

My guess/take would be corporates could donate, but if they receive services of value in exchange, it likely falls outside the scope of a non-profit entity, or at least that transaction would seem to not be tax deductible to the corporate. That doesn't mean such deals could not occur otherwise.

There may possibly be a gray area here - there are nonprofits like goodwill who do sell things to the public. I'm not clear what the boundaries are of nonprofits.

There's a good chance it would have to happen outside of, or parallel to the current NIL collective. Not a lawyer, but the NIL has a law team involved, and I'm sure they'll steer clear of any trouble.

(05-25-2023 11:20 AM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  Coach Cignetti also mentioned that in 2024 the scholarships will be 4-year deals, no longer 1-year deals that are renewed. The 2 b-ball coaches each mentioned they've had players in the past they either nudged out or were happy were jumping into the portal.

Curious if this is now a JMU policy, a Sun Belt policy, or something adopted FBS wide in NCAA? At one time, 4 year guaranteed deals was specific to certain P5 conferences. Does it apply to all sports?

(05-25-2023 12:31 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(05-25-2023 11:20 AM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  Coach Cignetti also mentioned that in 2024 the scholarships will be 4-year deals, no longer 1-year deals that are renewed. The 2 b-ball coaches each mentioned they've had players in the past they either nudged out or were happy were jumping into the portal.

Curious if this is now a JMU policy, a Sun Belt policy, or something adopted FBS wide in NCAA? At one time, 4 year guaranteed deals was specific to certain P5 conferences. Does it apply to all sports?

I believe it is NCAA-wide; originally extended to those in the portal, but as of next year will be for all players.

https://www.ncaa.org/news/2022/8/31/medi...rules.aspx

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committ...Report.pdf

(05-25-2023 12:48 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(05-25-2023 12:31 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(05-25-2023 11:20 AM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  Coach Cignetti also mentioned that in 2024 the scholarships will be 4-year deals, no longer 1-year deals that are renewed. The 2 b-ball coaches each mentioned they've had players in the past they either nudged out or were happy were jumping into the portal.

Curious if this is now a JMU policy, a Sun Belt policy, or something adopted FBS wide in NCAA? At one time, 4 year guaranteed deals was specific to certain P5 conferences. Does it apply to all sports?

I believe it is NCAA-wide; originally extended to those in the portal, but as of next year will be for all players.

https://www.ncaa.org/news/2022/8/31/medi...rules.aspx

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/committ...Report.pdf

Wonder if we will see a shift by a lot of schools to take more transfers than incoming freshmen as a result of this. If a team is "committed" to that scholarship, it seems like the transfers are a more known quantity in terms of performance.

Of course, 4 year scholarships didn't prevent Sanders from encouraging a large percentage of the team to transfer out. Think only 4 stayed as students? So maybe not much will change in practice.

(05-25-2023 12:59 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  Wonder if we will see a shift by a lot of schools to take more transfers than incoming freshmen as a result of this. If a team is "committed" to that scholarship, it seems like the transfers are a more known quantity in terms of performance.

Of course, 4 year scholarships didn't prevent Sanders from encouraging a large percentage of the team to transfer out. Think only 4 stayed as students? So maybe not much will change in practice.

While what he did has drawn a lot of negative backlash, his decision to purge the roster when he came on, and before they get locked in as fully guaranteed, might make sense. The team was terrible, the new coach has a roster full of guys that may not be up to that caliber of ball and soon those scholarships lock in guaranteed college career length deals. So he encourages them to jump ship and backfill with kids that he and his coaches are at least vouching for.

(05-25-2023 01:13 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  

(05-25-2023 12:59 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  Wonder if we will see a shift by a lot of schools to take more transfers than incoming freshmen as a result of this. If a team is "committed" to that scholarship, it seems like the transfers are a more known quantity in terms of performance.

Of course, 4 year scholarships didn't prevent Sanders from encouraging a large percentage of the team to transfer out. Think only 4 stayed as students? So maybe not much will change in practice.

While what he did has drawn a lot of negative backlash, his decision to purge the roster when he came on, and before they get locked in as fully guaranteed, might make sense. The team was terrible, the new coach has a roster full of guys that may not be up to that caliber of ball and soon those scholarships lock in guaranteed college career length deals. So he encourages them to jump ship and backfill with kids that he and his coaches are at least vouching for.

In Colorado's case, they were already locked in 4 year scholarships due to PAC rules. Maybe it works out well for Colorado to start fresh. Just saying I'm not sure the new rules will prevent coaches from "encouraging" transfers out.

One of the other interesting nuggets that coaches talked about was tiering NIL payments based on the class. I.e, seniors get more than juniors who get more than sophomores etc

That likely gives you the best chance to keep your top players while also providing a reasonable rationale for lowerclassmen to accept lower payments while looking forward to a pay raise each year.

(05-25-2023 01:49 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  One of the other interesting nuggets that coaches talked about was tiering NIL payments based on the class. I.e, seniors get more than juniors who get more than sophomores etc

That likely gives you the best chance to keep your top players while also providing a reasonable rationale for lowerclassmen to accept lower payments while looking forward to a pay raise each year.

You just have to get them used to the american workforce now and make sure their annual increases aren't keeping up with inflation.