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Louisiana played at Texas, at SMU. They also played Drake. That’s about as good a schedule as you can hope for at this level. They went 26-7 and they were not even on the bubble. They could have gone 28-5 and they still would have been left out. That’s the point. You don’t think Charleston tried to schedule some good games? Those power 5s too one look at that team and said hard pass. If it wasn’t for their own tournament they really would have played Nobody. 29 wins is pretty much the new goal in these three conferences (Sun Belt, CAA, CUSA). Someone please show me an example of the “right schedule”. Not cherry picking two games off the schedule. The entire schedule. Good luck cause it’s not there.

I said this before, and I'll say it again, but I believe that having Jeff Jones as the coach could be a reason why top schools won't schedule us. Despite what many ODU fans think of him, he is held in high regard in coaching circles. You can also hear it from the announcers of our opponents when we play on the road. And if you consider that he has 7 seasons at ODU with 18+ wins (including 4 at 25+), it may give other coaches pause to schedule us.

I am not saying it is a certainty, but it is a possibility if the "they don't want to schedule us" narrative is true. I know at one time, it was OUR decision to avoid guarantee games. I don't know for sure if that is the still the case.

We are always having discussions like this. I am always striving to understand the financial decisions that are made by the admin through my connections. While I have an understanding of some, I have many more questions.
For example:
What is the net cost of playing in an in-season tournament (2 or 3 games) vs. what the net cost would be to play 2 or 3 guarantee games? We all know the NET formula and road games are better than neutral court games (certainly more forgiving if we are going to lose).

Is playing UMES at home so important (to get to a certain number of home games) for season ticket sales that it outweighs guarantee money? Let's say we charge $10 less for season tickets for one less home game. Let's call that $35,000 less revenue (and let's say concessions and walk-up sales are a wash with game expenses). What is the amount of guarantee money we need to net $35k (Guarantee money minus travel expenses)? $50k? $55k? $60k?

(03-09-2023 07:47 AM)Prideofalion Wrote:  Louisiana played at Texas, at SMU. They also played Drake. That’s about as good a schedule as you can hope for at this level. They went 26-7 and they were not even on the bubble. They could have gone 28-5 and they still would have been left out. That’s the point. You don’t think Charleston tried to schedule some good games? Those power 5s too one look at that team and said hard pass. If it wasn’t for their own tournament they really would have played Nobody. 29 wins is pretty much the new goal in these three conferences (Sun Belt, CAA, CUSA). Someone please show me an example of the “right schedule”. Not cherry picking two games off the schedule. The entire schedule. Good luck cause it’s not there.

Good point. It would have been pretty sad if Charleston had won 30 games and not received an invitation.

(03-09-2023 07:31 AM)Prideofalion Wrote:  You can always find examples of a team playing a power 5 on the road. That doesn’t change the fact that the rest of their schedules are still garbage. You can’t schedule those games with regularity. The opportunities just aren’t there. JMU did manage to get UVA and UNC on the schedule. That’s impressive. But I think some of that is just because UVA agreed to open the JMU building last year and it’s just a return game. I don’t see that being a common thing. And the rest of JMUs schedule was terrible. They played like 3 or 4 non D1s.

We will (and should) have our share of cupcakes. There is no reason that we can't replicate the good part of JMU's schedule without the bad part.

It just takes someone to put forth the effort.

(03-09-2023 08:36 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(03-09-2023 07:31 AM)Prideofalion Wrote:  You can always find examples of a team playing a power 5 on the road. That doesn’t change the fact that the rest of their schedules are still garbage. You can’t schedule those games with regularity. The opportunities just aren’t there. JMU did manage to get UVA and UNC on the schedule. That’s impressive. But I think some of that is just because UVA agreed to open the JMU building last year and it’s just a return game. I don’t see that being a common thing. And the rest of JMUs schedule was terrible. They played like 3 or 4 non D1s.

We will (and should) have our share of cupcakes. There is no reason that we can't replicate the good part of JMU's schedule without the bad part.

It just takes someone to put forth the effort.

There are plenty of fair criticisms of the staff, but let's be honest, the idea that they aren't "putting forth the effort" is an unfounded allegation. JJ was pretty open on the podcast about how difficult scheduling is/was, especially this year.

I think you can say that you'd like to see a big name or two on the schedule (preferably home, but away if necessary), without accusing them of not trying.

(03-09-2023 08:40 AM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(03-09-2023 08:36 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(03-09-2023 07:31 AM)Prideofalion Wrote:  You can always find examples of a team playing a power 5 on the road. That doesn’t change the fact that the rest of their schedules are still garbage. You can’t schedule those games with regularity. The opportunities just aren’t there. JMU did manage to get UVA and UNC on the schedule. That’s impressive. But I think some of that is just because UVA agreed to open the JMU building last year and it’s just a return game. I don’t see that being a common thing. And the rest of JMUs schedule was terrible. They played like 3 or 4 non D1s.

We will (and should) have our share of cupcakes. There is no reason that we can't replicate the good part of JMU's schedule without the bad part.

It just takes someone to put forth the effort.

There are plenty of fair criticisms of the staff, but let's be honest, the idea that they aren't "putting forth the effort" is an unfounded allegation. JJ was pretty open on the podcast about how difficult scheduling is/was, especially this year.

I think you can say that you'd like to see a big name or two on the schedule (preferably home, but away if necessary), without accusing them of not trying.

I'm not sure how much influence JJ has on scheduling itself. Maybe it's not effort. Maybe it's thar ODU is still held in too high regard for P5s to schedule. The A10 certainly doesn’t think so.

In that case, those who put the schedule together should reach out to our conference mates to figure out what their tricks are. If we have to pay to play, sobeit. It's obvious that the status Quo isn't working.

(03-09-2023 06:59 AM)mac Wrote:  

(03-08-2023 03:44 PM)Monarchist13 Wrote:  I just want a nearby ACC road game to attend. Syracuse was great but give us a trip a lot of our fans can make like NCSU, Duke, UNC or Wake.

That would be great!

Keep reading on here and elsewhere something like “ they won’t play us”, yet I see JMU at North Carolina AND Virginia and teams way south getting teams like LSU etc on their schedules. Radford and Longwood can even get some nice games.

We need someone new working on the schedules cause ours is weak, just like the program is.

Our schedule was wayyyyyy tougher than JMU.

(03-09-2023 07:47 AM)Prideofalion Wrote:  Louisiana played at Texas, at SMU. They also played Drake. That’s about as good a schedule as you can hope for at this level. They went 26-7 and they were not even on the bubble. They could have gone 28-5 and they still would have been left out. That’s the point. You don’t think Charleston tried to schedule some good games? Those power 5s too one look at that team and said hard pass. If it wasn’t for their own tournament they really would have played Nobody. 29 wins is pretty much the new goal in these three conferences (Sun Belt, CAA, CUSA). Someone please show me an example of the “right schedule”. Not cherry picking two games off the schedule. The entire schedule. Good luck cause it’s not there.

You are exactly right. Charleston had 30 wins and scheduled VT, UNC, Richmond, Davidson, Colorado State, Kent State (top 100) and still needed to win the conference tourney to get in.

FAU might be the one outlier and thats bc they were lucky to have 2 other teams in the conference that were top 60. They are probably locks with 28 wins with more possibly coming in the tourney. They also played Ole Miss, Florida, and South Alabama. Nothing crazy difficult and a schedule that was on par with ours.

The committee is not looking for ways to get mid majors in the tourney, they are looking for ways to keep them out. If you are a mid, you better win at least 28-30 games and that may still not be enough.

(03-09-2023 09:03 AM)Stat Geek Wrote:  

(03-09-2023 06:59 AM)mac Wrote:  

(03-08-2023 03:44 PM)Monarchist13 Wrote:  I just want a nearby ACC road game to attend. Syracuse was great but give us a trip a lot of our fans can make like NCSU, Duke, UNC or Wake.

That would be great!

Keep reading on here and elsewhere something like “ they won’t play us”, yet I see JMU at North Carolina AND Virginia and teams way south getting teams like LSU etc on their schedules. Radford and Longwood can even get some nice games.

We need someone new working on the schedules cause ours is weak, just like the program is.

Our schedule was wayyyyyy tougher than JMU.

Granted. But that's not what we are discussing. The fact that their schedule is so weak despite having 2 top ACC teams is another issue.

What we are pointing out is that they got two top ACC teams.

(03-09-2023 08:36 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(03-09-2023 07:31 AM)Prideofalion Wrote:  You can always find examples of a team playing a power 5 on the road. That doesn’t change the fact that the rest of their schedules are still garbage. You can’t schedule those games with regularity. The opportunities just aren’t there. JMU did manage to get UVA and UNC on the schedule. That’s impressive. But I think some of that is just because UVA agreed to open the JMU building last year and it’s just a return game. I don’t see that being a common thing. And the rest of JMUs schedule was terrible. They played like 3 or 4 non D1s.

We will (and should) have our share of cupcakes. There is no reason that we can't replicate the good part of JMU's schedule without the bad part.

It just takes someone to put forth the effort.

There are plenty of criticisms to go around, but you are off your medicine if you don't think the program doesn't put the effort into scheduling.

This year, we were supposed to have Richmond, VCU, and Maryland...along with a tough in season tournament. They lost all 3 of those games were were still albe to conjure up a schedule that is consistent with what our schedule has been for the last 30 years.

(03-09-2023 09:09 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(03-09-2023 09:03 AM)Stat Geek Wrote:  

(03-09-2023 06:59 AM)mac Wrote:  

(03-08-2023 03:44 PM)Monarchist13 Wrote:  I just want a nearby ACC road game to attend. Syracuse was great but give us a trip a lot of our fans can make like NCSU, Duke, UNC or Wake.

That would be great!

Keep reading on here and elsewhere something like “ they won’t play us”, yet I see JMU at North Carolina AND Virginia and teams way south getting teams like LSU etc on their schedules. Radford and Longwood can even get some nice games.

We need someone new working on the schedules cause ours is weak, just like the program is.

Our schedule was wayyyyyy tougher than JMU.

Granted. But that's not what we are discussing. The fact that their schedule is so weak despite having 2 top ACC teams is another issue.

What we are pointing out is that they got two top ACC teams.

We were supposed to have an ACC team and a Big 10 team (always forget about Maryland) on the schedule as well. Trust me, if we had the opportunity to schedule any ACC teams, they would do so. Its not like we are the ones backing out of agreements with Maryland.

(03-09-2023 08:18 AM)JJMonarch Wrote:  

(03-09-2023 07:47 AM)Prideofalion Wrote:  Louisiana played at Texas, at SMU. They also played Drake. That’s about as good a schedule as you can hope for at this level. They went 26-7 and they were not even on the bubble. They could have gone 28-5 and they still would have been left out. That’s the point. You don’t think Charleston tried to schedule some good games? Those power 5s too one look at that team and said hard pass. If it wasn’t for their own tournament they really would have played Nobody. 29 wins is pretty much the new goal in these three conferences (Sun Belt, CAA, CUSA). Someone please show me an example of the “right schedule”. Not cherry picking two games off the schedule. The entire schedule. Good luck cause it’s not there.

Good point. It would have been pretty sad if Charleston had won 30 games and not received an invitation.

Just more reason to fire Jeff Jones then. If the entire regular season is worthless no matter what, then the only thing that matters is winning the 3 (or 4) games in the conference tournament. Jeff Jones is usually at his absolute worst in tournament environments. May as well just have open scrimmages from October to March.

I want JJ gone as much as the next fan. But to blame him and the staff for the landscape of mid major basketball scheduling is just lazy. Every team at this level is struggling with an uneven playing ground in terms of scheduling. The A10 and AAC have been instructed not to schedule with these conferences. And now the Power 5 plays 20 conf games and throw in a 3 game tournament, There’s only about 7 games left on the schedule for them. They aren’t knocking on ODUs door, or Middle Tenn, or Charlotte, or Marshall. Not going to happen. Gonna have to put together a veteran team and run the table so to speak ala FAU or Charleston. JMU getting both those ACC teams on the schedule is an anomaly. It only happened because they were opening a new building with the UVA contract. That won’t be the norm going forward.

And I’m not saying they can’t improve the schedule a little bit. I think we could get a Power 5 on the road possibly, like in the past. But going to have to capitalize on a neutral court tournament and just avoid scheduling 3 MEAC teams. But there is no way in hell teams at our level can put together a schedule good enough to win 26 games and get into the dance with an at large. The losses are too damaging with the new metrics, even if there’s only 7 or 8 of them. Maybe if u win a neutral court tournament and beat 3 good teams possibly…

(03-09-2023 09:12 AM)Stat Geek Wrote:  

(03-09-2023 08:36 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(03-09-2023 07:31 AM)Prideofalion Wrote:  You can always find examples of a team playing a power 5 on the road. That doesn’t change the fact that the rest of their schedules are still garbage. You can’t schedule those games with regularity. The opportunities just aren’t there. JMU did manage to get UVA and UNC on the schedule. That’s impressive. But I think some of that is just because UVA agreed to open the JMU building last year and it’s just a return game. I don’t see that being a common thing. And the rest of JMUs schedule was terrible. They played like 3 or 4 non D1s.

We will (and should) have our share of cupcakes. There is no reason that we can't replicate the good part of JMU's schedule without the bad part.

It just takes someone to put forth the effort.

There are plenty of criticisms to go around, but you are off your medicine if you don't think the program doesn't put the effort into scheduling.

This year, we were supposed to have Richmond, VCU, and Maryland...along with a tough in season tournament. They lost all 3 of those games were were still albe to conjure up a schedule that is consistent with what our schedule has been for the last 30 years.

Ive been critical of the schedule, and do think covering Jeff by adding some assumed cupcakes (that wound up being better than normal) was a consideration. But you do make a good point that we lost three of our best games at the last minute and had to scramble. Thats why I'll give them a pass for the past season. Now, there's no excuses. We know the A10 teams won't play us. We know we're wasting our time with most P5s. So go after a strong tournament, and as many of the best MAC, AAC, CUSA, CAA, MVC teams we can. We play enough weaker teams in the SB. No need to pad the schedule with MEAC,ASUN types unless its NSU. And please, no more regular season non-D1 games. Lets hope as the A10 continues its slow decline, they won't be able to schedule P5s either and will have to get back to playing other mid conferences.

Id like to see a schedule with Temple, ECU, Charlotte, WM, Charleston, Liberty, Hampton, UNCW, USF, Ohio, Toledo, WKU, Tulane, UAB... teams like that.

(03-09-2023 09:43 AM)monarx Wrote:  So go after a strong tournament, and as many of the best MAC, AAC, CUSA, CAA, MVC teams we can. We play enough weaker teams in the SB. No need to pad the schedule with MEAC,ASUN types unless its NSU. And please, no more regular season non-D1 games. Lets hope as the A10 continues its slow decline, they won't be able to schedule P5s either and will have to get back to playing other mid conferences.

Id like to see a schedule with Temple, ECU, Charlotte, WM, Charleston, Liberty, Hampton, UNCW, USF, Ohio, Toledo, WKU, Tulane, UAB... teams like that.

As noted in post 1 of this thread, they already have the tournament booked.

Diamond Head Classic in Honolulu over Christmas (3 of TCU, Saint Mary’s, Temple, UMass, Nevada, Georgia Tech and Hawaii)

I think the non-D1s are here to stay. We played the fewest amount of them in the league. And it's really a choice between them and a low major that will come on the road for that small of a guarantee. So it's either CNU or Virginia Wesleyan or a sub-300 team who will impact our NET negatively.

What does our NET matter at all anymore? Like, we ain't getting an at large. We can't even get a conf tourney win

I refuse to believe that a DII team is so much cheaper than getting games vs teams fans, if not care about, at least actually recognize. Radford, Longwood, VMI, Towson, Campbell, NCAT, UNCW, UNCG, UNCA, Chattanooga would all be better than having DII squads outside of an exhibition.

(03-09-2023 12:34 PM)Blue_Trombone Wrote:  I refuse to believe that a DII team is so much cheaper than getting games vs teams fans, if not care about, at least actually recognize. Radford, Longwood, VMI, Towson, Campbell, NCAT, UNCW, UNCG, UNCA, Chattanooga would all be better than having DII squads outside of an exhibition.

You can refuse to believe it all you want, but that doesn't make it so.

Someday I believe season ticket and walk up sales will reflect the fans diminished interest in an inferior product.

The savings in scheduling D-11, D-111 teams will be more than off set by decreased ticket sales.

Just hope I'm still alive to see it. At this point I didn't renew season tix for this past year and certainly won't for next.

Only went to 3 home games this year. Good chance I'll stay home entirely next year. Once you lose an old timer, he's gone forever.

Honestly, Id rather not play a regular season game against non D1 competition at all. Just play fewer games then. Play Hampton home and home in the same season or something. Exhibitions are fine. Its just embarrassing to have our program, which should regularly be in the top 100 D1 schools in the country, be associated with these D3 teams as if our programs were peers. The A10 won't even play Sun Belt schools, yet Sun Belt schools are supposed to embrace playing ODAC schools? As our President would say... "C'mon man".