Does anyone know how we are doing in the area of NIL money? I cannot believe that Doc Sander and Dr. Noland would not be engaged in this area. I am talking about similar schools with equivalent resources to ETSU.

(03-22-2023 02:59 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  Does anyone know how we are doing in the area of NIL money? I cannot believe that Doc Sander and Dr. Noland would not be engaged in this area. I am talking about similar schools with equivalent resources to ETSU.

The Portal and NIL money - geez. Complaining, of course, is a waste of time and will change nothing — except my interest in college football and basketball which is fading fast. Please NCAA, college athletic departments, et al — STOP calling these players student-athletes with all the accompanying pretentiousness. Irregardless, I wish coach Savage the best as he tries to hire a new team.

What equivalent schools are you comparing to ETSU.

Would the last player leaving please remember to turn the lights off on your way out?
Thanks!

(03-22-2023 05:11 PM)Buc76 Wrote:  What equivalent schools are you comparing to ETSU.

Western Carolina, Tennessee Tech, Austin Peay, UTC and other SoCon schools.

It begins…

I think I'm a bit more concerned than some here. I mean, a lot of those guys were giving him the benefit of the doubt for a bit, until they met with him - even attending his press conference. And some even speaking positively about getting to work with him. So, what did they hear, or feel, from him that pushed them into the portal? Or was it that they were gonna do that anyway, and were just waiting to see if he could preach some magic? Yes, no doubt that Savage can build *some* kind of team, but this is a harder rebuild than even Forbes had to do, and I just can't see Savage doing it quickly. Hope I'm wrong, and I'm not slamming him AT ALL. Just makes one wonder what they heard from him they didn't like, or *didn't* hear from him.

And yes, as Forbes said of the portal, "supply exceeds demand", but one has to wonder what kind of baggage each of those guys bring with them. Up to Savage to ferret that out, I guess. Maybe he can bring in McCray and Taylor. Certainly there's room for them now.

And speaking of transfers...............the Brewer brothers' newest team, UAB, knocked off Vandy tonight, to make the NIT semifinals.

(03-22-2023 11:08 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  I think I'm a bit more concerned than some here. I mean, a lot of those guys were giving him the benefit of the doubt for a bit, until they met with him - even attending his press conference. And some even speaking positively about getting to work with him. So, what did they hear, or feel, from him that pushed them into the portal? Or was it that they were gonna do that anyway, and were just waiting to see if he could preach some magic? Yes, no doubt that Savage can build *some* kind of team, but this is a harder rebuild than even Forbes had to do, and I just can't see Savage doing it quickly. Hope I'm wrong, and I'm not slamming him AT ALL. Just makes one wonder what they heard from him they didn't like, or *didn't* hear from him.

And yes, as Forbes said of the portal, "supply exceeds demand", but one has to wonder what kind of baggage each of those guys bring with them. Up to Savage to ferret that out, I guess. Maybe he can bring in McCray and Taylor. Certainly there's room for them now.


It will be interesting to see who Savage can bring into the fold. We need a lot of help.
And speaking of transfers...............the Brewer brothers' newest team, UAB, knocked off Vandy tonight, to make the NIT semifinals.

(03-22-2023 07:46 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  

(03-22-2023 05:11 PM)Buc76 Wrote:  What equivalent schools are you comparing to ETSU.

Western Carolina, Tennessee Tech, Austin Peay, UTC and other SoCon schools.

In other words — MONEY continues to define one’s place in the hierarchy of college athletics. Players — their agents, families, mentors, etc. are desiring a piece of this college sports money cow - not just money for the schools, their coaches, ADs, athletic departments, et al. And, the demand for more of the wealth will only grow. The big schools brought this all on culminating with the Portal and NIL. From here, the door is open for more sharing of the wealth. As for mid-majors depending on student fees for the bulk of their athletic budgets — things ain’t looking real good going forward.

NCAA undergraduate transfer policy. For what it worth

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/eligibility_cent..._UG4YW.pdf

(03-22-2023 11:08 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  I think I'm a bit more concerned than some here. I mean, a lot of those guys were giving him the benefit of the doubt for a bit, until they met with him - even attending his press conference. And some even speaking positively about getting to work with him. So, what did they hear, or feel, from him that pushed them into the portal? Or was it that they were gonna do that anyway, and were just waiting to see if he could preach some magic? Yes, no doubt that Savage can build *some* kind of team, but this is a harder rebuild than even Forbes had to do, and I just can't see Savage doing it quickly. Hope I'm wrong, and I'm not slamming him AT ALL. Just makes one wonder what they heard from him they didn't like, or *didn't* hear from him.

And yes, as Forbes said of the portal, "supply exceeds demand", but one has to wonder what kind of baggage each of those guys bring with them. Up to Savage to ferret that out, I guess. Maybe he can bring in McCray and Taylor. Certainly there's room for them now.

And speaking of transfers...............the Brewer brothers' newest team, UAB, knocked off Vandy tonight, to make the NIT semifinals.

If he doesn't turn it around quickly, will Doc hold him to the same standard as Oliver? Would he pull the plug after year 2? If not, then you get into some dangerous territory and the racial discussion begins again.

(03-23-2023 11:40 AM)bailey472 Wrote:  

(03-22-2023 11:08 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  I think I'm a bit more concerned than some here. I mean, a lot of those guys were giving him the benefit of the doubt for a bit, until they met with him - even attending his press conference. And some even speaking positively about getting to work with him. So, what did they hear, or feel, from him that pushed them into the portal? Or was it that they were gonna do that anyway, and were just waiting to see if he could preach some magic? Yes, no doubt that Savage can build *some* kind of team, but this is a harder rebuild than even Forbes had to do, and I just can't see Savage doing it quickly. Hope I'm wrong, and I'm not slamming him AT ALL. Just makes one wonder what they heard from him they didn't like, or *didn't* hear from him.

And yes, as Forbes said of the portal, "supply exceeds demand", but one has to wonder what kind of baggage each of those guys bring with them. Up to Savage to ferret that out, I guess. Maybe he can bring in McCray and Taylor. Certainly there's room for them now.

And speaking of transfers...............the Brewer brothers' newest team, UAB, knocked off Vandy tonight, to make the NIT semifinals.

If he doesn't turn it around quickly, will Doc hold him to the same standard as Oliver? Would he pull the plug after year 2? If not, then you get into some dangerous territory and the racial discussion begins again.

Not necessarily. It was quite evident Coach Oliver had no control over certain aspects of his team. While I hope he would've been successful, not everyone is cut out to be a head coach. If that discussion again comes up, it's merely an engineered diversion to make people feel uncomfortable. If Coach Savage displays the same leadership and record after two years, of course, the AD should consider a change.

(03-22-2023 11:08 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  Yes, no doubt that Savage can build *some* kind of team, but this is a harder rebuild than even Forbes had to do, and I just can't see Savage doing it quickly. Hope I'm wrong, and I'm not slamming him AT ALL. Just makes one wonder what they heard from him they didn't like, or *didn't* hear from him.

Um, Savage is the one who did it when Forbes was here, so I would say he’ll figure it out.

(03-22-2023 11:08 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  I think I'm a bit more concerned than some here. I mean, a lot of those guys were giving him the benefit of the doubt for a bit, until they met with him - even attending his press conference. And some even speaking positively about getting to work with him. So, what did they hear, or feel, from him that pushed them into the portal? Or was it that they were gonna do that anyway, and were just waiting to see if he could preach some magic? Yes, no doubt that Savage can build *some* kind of team, but this is a harder rebuild than even Forbes had to do, and I just can't see Savage doing it quickly. Hope I'm wrong, and I'm not slamming him AT ALL. Just makes one wonder what they heard from him they didn't like, or *didn't* hear from him.

And yes, as Forbes said of the portal, "supply exceeds demand", but one has to wonder what kind of baggage each of those guys bring with them. Up to Savage to ferret that out, I guess. Maybe he can bring in McCray and Taylor. Certainly there's room for them now.

And speaking of transfers...............the Brewer brothers' newest team, UAB, knocked off Vandy tonight, to make the NIT semifinals.

My sources tell me that at least in Jordy's case, his mind was already made up. I know these guys *seem* like they're truthful to the cameras, but they of course all have agendas. In Jalen's case, there's a decent chance he has to sit next year. Maybe he thinks he can get a waiver. If he doesn't, does Savage let him stick with the team if he wants to come back? We'll see. I do know this - I think he needs to get into better shape to be better and consistently effective. Jordy needs to learn defense.

I agree that Savage has more of a rebuild in terms of numbers, but it may be better in terms of attitude. Forbes said, for example, it took a year for AJ to buy in. He kept Petey McClain, Jurkin, Ike Banks, and of course Desonta from Bartow. But it may actually be better to have less in terms of numbers, that way you build the team you want, instead of trying to eke out what you can of the current stock. I don't think we'll miss Jordy or Jalen. I'm wish them the best, but I'm certainly ok with them moving on.

I'm curious to see if Savage can make Allen Strothers into an effective point guard, and somehow improve Justice Smith's attitude.

(03-23-2023 11:59 AM)squeak Wrote:  

(03-23-2023 11:40 AM)bailey472 Wrote:  

(03-22-2023 11:08 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  I think I'm a bit more concerned than some here. I mean, a lot of those guys were giving him the benefit of the doubt for a bit, until they met with him - even attending his press conference. And some even speaking positively about getting to work with him. So, what did they hear, or feel, from him that pushed them into the portal? Or was it that they were gonna do that anyway, and were just waiting to see if he could preach some magic? Yes, no doubt that Savage can build *some* kind of team, but this is a harder rebuild than even Forbes had to do, and I just can't see Savage doing it quickly. Hope I'm wrong, and I'm not slamming him AT ALL. Just makes one wonder what they heard from him they didn't like, or *didn't* hear from him.

And yes, as Forbes said of the portal, "supply exceeds demand", but one has to wonder what kind of baggage each of those guys bring with them. Up to Savage to ferret that out, I guess. Maybe he can bring in McCray and Taylor. Certainly there's room for them now.

And speaking of transfers...............the Brewer brothers' newest team, UAB, knocked off Vandy tonight, to make the NIT semifinals.

If he doesn't turn it around quickly, will Doc hold him to the same standard as Oliver? Would he pull the plug after year 2? If not, then you get into some dangerous territory and the racial discussion begins again.

Not necessarily. It was quite evident Coach Oliver had no control over certain aspects of his team. While I hope he would've been successful, not everyone is cut out to be a head coach. If that discussion again comes up, it's merely an engineered diversion to make people feel uncomfortable. If Coach Savage displays the same leadership and record after two years, of course, the AD should consider a change.

I mostly agree. Assuming Sanders is still here in two years, I think Savage will get a little more (not a lot more, but a little more) leeway, as Sanders hired him.

It's kinda(?) a moot point for the moment, but this stuff just kills me:

"On a team that struggled with consistency, ETSU coach Desmond Oliver found a way to maximize Haynes’ strengths. The Bucs’ big man made 58% of his shots from the field during the season, third in the SoCon, while averaging 14.6 points per game.

It was a transformational season from a player who came in from Virginia Tech after appearing in just nine games as a freshman with the Hokies.

“I learned a lot,” Haynes said. “Really being able to showcase what I can do with this being my first actual year playing, it was great. I learned what it is to be an actual college basketball player, take some losses down the road but also take some wins. It was a great experience. We’ll be coming back.”

"Just hearing him say those words “We’ll be coming back” has to be comforting to ETSU fans. In this day and age of the transfer portal, any mid-major star with two years of eligibility remaining has to be asked the question.

“I’ll say for me personally, I will be coming back,” Haynes said. “And for the guys that are coming back and the recruits that are coming, I know it’s going be a great season.”

Haynes has some help returning in the Bucs’ frontcourt. Underclassmen Jaden Seymour and Josh Taylor have both proven to be capable running mates at the forward position.

“The majority of us are coming back so we just have to stay healthy and to learn, just try to find ways to win a championship,” said guard Jordan King, who averaged 15.6 points per game."
-------------------------------------------

And yeah, I know they've each got their "agendas" and so on, but: a) what changed after they met with Savage?; and b) could this be a case of "When NIL talks, people listen". In any event, the radical turnaround raises my eyebrows. Not that I know what it all means, but makes we wonder what part of this we're missing. And we may never know, but I'm betting we're not seeing the whole picture here.

(03-24-2023 04:54 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  It's kinda(?) a moot point for the moment, but this stuff just kills me:

"On a team that struggled with consistency, ETSU coach Desmond Oliver found a way to maximize Haynes’ strengths. The Bucs’ big man made 58% of his shots from the field during the season, third in the SoCon, while averaging 14.6 points per game.

It was a transformational season from a player who came in from Virginia Tech after appearing in just nine games as a freshman with the Hokies.

“I learned a lot,” Haynes said. “Really being able to showcase what I can do with this being my first actual year playing, it was great. I learned what it is to be an actual college basketball player, take some losses down the road but also take some wins. It was a great experience. We’ll be coming back.”

"Just hearing him say those words “We’ll be coming back” has to be comforting to ETSU fans. In this day and age of the transfer portal, any mid-major star with two years of eligibility remaining has to be asked the question.

“I’ll say for me personally, I will be coming back,” Haynes said. “And for the guys that are coming back and the recruits that are coming, I know it’s going be a great season.”

Haynes has some help returning in the Bucs’ frontcourt. Underclassmen Jaden Seymour and Josh Taylor have both proven to be capable running mates at the forward position.

“The majority of us are coming back so we just have to stay healthy and to learn, just try to find ways to win a championship,” said guard Jordan King, who averaged 15.6 points per game."
-------------------------------------------

And yeah, I know they've each got their "agendas" and so on, but: a) what changed after they met with Savage?; and b) could this be a case of "When NIL talks, people listen". In any event, the radical turnaround raises my eyebrows. Not that I know what it all means, but makes we wonder what part of this we're missing. And we may never know, but I'm betting we're not seeing the whole picture here.

Perhaps Coach Savage suggested they may be a good fit elsewhere? That's certainly one possibility.
I certainly have no gripe with Haynes and King leaving after they said they wouldn't. The terms of the contract, so to speak, changed.

(03-24-2023 05:45 AM)frankenheimer Wrote:  

(03-24-2023 04:54 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  It's kinda(?) a moot point for the moment, but this stuff just kills me:

"On a team that struggled with consistency, ETSU coach Desmond Oliver found a way to maximize Haynes’ strengths. The Bucs’ big man made 58% of his shots from the field during the season, third in the SoCon, while averaging 14.6 points per game.

It was a transformational season from a player who came in from Virginia Tech after appearing in just nine games as a freshman with the Hokies.

“I learned a lot,” Haynes said. “Really being able to showcase what I can do with this being my first actual year playing, it was great. I learned what it is to be an actual college basketball player, take some losses down the road but also take some wins. It was a great experience. We’ll be coming back.”

"Just hearing him say those words “We’ll be coming back” has to be comforting to ETSU fans. In this day and age of the transfer portal, any mid-major star with two years of eligibility remaining has to be asked the question.

“I’ll say for me personally, I will be coming back,” Haynes said. “And for the guys that are coming back and the recruits that are coming, I know it’s going be a great season.”

Haynes has some help returning in the Bucs’ frontcourt. Underclassmen Jaden Seymour and Josh Taylor have both proven to be capable running mates at the forward position.

“The majority of us are coming back so we just have to stay healthy and to learn, just try to find ways to win a championship,” said guard Jordan King, who averaged 15.6 points per game."
-------------------------------------------

And yeah, I know they've each got their "agendas" and so on, but: a) what changed after they met with Savage?; and b) could this be a case of "When NIL talks, people listen". In any event, the radical turnaround raises my eyebrows. Not that I know what it all means, but makes we wonder what part of this we're missing. And we may never know, but I'm betting we're not seeing the whole picture here.

Perhaps Coach Savage suggested they may be a good fit elsewhere? That's certainly one possibility.
I certainly have no gripe with Haynes and King leaving after they said they wouldn't. The terms of the contract, so to speak, changed.

Or, perhaps Savage wouldn’t agree to give into their demands. After all, the game is being turned over to the players in that they now have the Portal and NIL as leverage.

(03-24-2023 04:54 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  It's kinda(?) a moot point for the moment, but this stuff just kills me:

"On a team that struggled with consistency, ETSU coach Desmond Oliver found a way to maximize Haynes’ strengths. The Bucs’ big man made 58% of his shots from the field during the season, third in the SoCon, while averaging 14.6 points per game.

It was a transformational season from a player who came in from Virginia Tech after appearing in just nine games as a freshman with the Hokies.

“I learned a lot,” Haynes said. “Really being able to showcase what I can do with this being my first actual year playing, it was great. I learned what it is to be an actual college basketball player, take some losses down the road but also take some wins. It was a great experience. We’ll be coming back.”

"Just hearing him say those words “We’ll be coming back” has to be comforting to ETSU fans. In this day and age of the transfer portal, any mid-major star with two years of eligibility remaining has to be asked the question.

“I’ll say for me personally, I will be coming back,” Haynes said. “And for the guys that are coming back and the recruits that are coming, I know it’s going be a great season.”

Haynes has some help returning in the Bucs’ frontcourt. Underclassmen Jaden Seymour and Josh Taylor have both proven to be capable running mates at the forward position.

“The majority of us are coming back so we just have to stay healthy and to learn, just try to find ways to win a championship,” said guard Jordan King, who averaged 15.6 points per game."
-------------------------------------------

And yeah, I know they've each got their "agendas" and so on, but: a) what changed after they met with Savage?; and b) could this be a case of "When NIL talks, people listen". In any event, the radical turnaround raises my eyebrows. Not that I know what it all means, but makes we wonder what part of this we're missing. And we may never know, but I'm betting we're not seeing the whole picture here.

Well, to me this is obvious. First, as I already said, I have a good source that said Jordy's mind was already made up.

Second, Haynes said all of that when he thought Oliver was going to be the coach, so everything you highlighted is pretty much moot. Did you happen to see our offense in Asheville? On our first however many possessions who touched the ball? King & Haynes - that's it - and we were down 20-4 by the first timeout (or so - I'm not going to go look it up, I was there, no need to relive that, it was ugly). So to me, this is obvious. Haynes knew his role with Oliver - he was going to be central. With Savage? An unknown. He may have asked Savage "are you going to bring any other centers in?" Savage may have said 'yes' and that was all he needed to say. As you said - we will likely never know, but I don't really get why this is so concerning. Team went 12-20. 20 losses. This team lost more home games than Forbes & company did in 5 years (or close to it). Haynes (and King) were *critical* pieces on a bad team. Critical to what exactly???

Maybe they could be salvaged, maybe not, but I think we can do better than those two in terms of consistency, team play, and playing DEFENSE. Just my opinion.

We might as well start putting their name on the front of the uniform, and ETSU on the back. Let's celebrate those players who are committed to staying, who'll work hard for bettering the program, then walk away with an education.