I think everyone realizes that I thought Emoni got a raw deal all the way around, including EMU.

Legalese for those interested. [I think the technical term for Emoni's sentence was PBJ (not peanut butter and jelly) but Probation Before Judgment. The prosecutor has a lot of options how to handle a case and PBJ is one en leau of going to trial. Essentially both sides agree to it the deal and then Emoni will apply for expungement (which means the case is sealed from all eyes. Of course, Emoni has been 'convicted' in the public, because he is a public figure. If one of us had say a misdemeanor and could try to get a PBJ or nolle pros - the prosecutor decides not to prosecute - the record can be seal. How quickly depends if it is PBJ, nolle pros, or some type of conviction.

EDIT: On second thought I don't know if MI has PBJ or if it is the same in different states.. I think the essence is that probation is negotiated before the guilty plea is entered into. And there is the youthful offender stuff.

Note: If Emoni's basketball career was not on the line he could have fought the charge and probably won, esp. if it was a jury trial. Instead both the prosecutor and Emoni's legal team decided to negotiate a settlement.

So what happens in Alabama with their star MBB player (possible lottery pick). https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc...332092002/

Nothing. He plays on. Not suspended pending. Not charged yet. I have no idea how I feel about Emoni's case and this case. Different, but one element, a gun, is involved. To my read, both had some tangent relationship to a gun which was NOT THEIR gun. One was charged with a felony and the other suits up for the next MBB game.

Weird, but sometimes the law can be weird. Guys, the law is not black and white. So much gray.

That Brandon Miller was on the court the other night is a ******* disgrace.

(02-24-2023 09:07 AM)emu steve Wrote:  I think everyone realizes that I thought Emoni got a raw deal all the way around, including EMU.

Legalese for those interested. [I think the technical term for Emoni's sentence was PBJ (not peanut butter and jelly) but Probation Before Judgment. The prosecutor has a lot of options how to handle a case and PBJ is one en leau of going to trial. Essentially both sides agree to it the deal and then Emoni will apply for expungement (which means the case is sealed from all eyes. Of course, Emoni has been 'convicted' in the public, because he is a public figure. If one of us had say a misdemeanor and could try to get a PBJ or nolle pros - the prosecutor decides not to prosecute - the record can be seal. How quickly depends if it is PBJ, nolle pros, or some type of conviction.

EDIT: On second thought I don't know if MI has PBJ or if it is the same in different states.. I think the essence is that probation is negotiated before the guilty plea is entered into. And there is the youthful offender stuff.

Note: If Emoni's basketball career was not on the line he could have fought the charge and probably won, esp. if it was a jury trial. Instead both the prosecutor and Emoni's legal team decided to negotiate a settlement.

So what happens in Alabama with their star MBB player (possible lottery pick). https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc...332092002/

Nothing. He plays on. Not suspended pending. Not charged yet. I have no idea how I feel about Emoni's case and this case. Different, but one element, a gun, is involved. To my read, both had some tangent relationship to a gun which was NOT THEIR gun. One was charged with a felony and the other suits up for the next MBB game.

Weird, but sometimes the law can be weird. Guys, the law is not black and white. So much gray.

If the plea agreement is sealed and not subject to Freedom of Information or the public none of us except the parties to the plea agreement know the details what charges were dropped and against who. Whether is was fair or unfair is between the parties to decide. Whether a jury would have acquitted him is something we will never know unless the agreement is violated and it goes to trial. I am fairly certain that if either side "leaks" the details of the agreement it is null and void and they go to trial. Ultimately Emoni gets to attend classes and play basketball and maybe do community service and get this off his record. To me that seems fair for a first time offender and a big a win for him and his family. We can all debate if a non celebrity non athlete in the identical circumstances would have gotten the same deal. But that would be counting the number of angels on a pin head.

(02-24-2023 09:57 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 09:07 AM)emu steve Wrote:  I think everyone realizes that I thought Emoni got a raw deal all the way around, including EMU.

Legalese for those interested. [I think the technical term for Emoni's sentence was PBJ (not peanut butter and jelly) but Probation Before Judgment. The prosecutor has a lot of options how to handle a case and PBJ is one en leau of going to trial. Essentially both sides agree to it the deal and then Emoni will apply for expungement (which means the case is sealed from all eyes. Of course, Emoni has been 'convicted' in the public, because he is a public figure. If one of us had say a misdemeanor and could try to get a PBJ or nolle pros - the prosecutor decides not to prosecute - the record can be seal. How quickly depends if it is PBJ, nolle pros, or some type of conviction.

EDIT: On second thought I don't know if MI has PBJ or if it is the same in different states.. I think the essence is that probation is negotiated before the guilty plea is entered into. And there is the youthful offender stuff.

Note: If Emoni's basketball career was not on the line he could have fought the charge and probably won, esp. if it was a jury trial. Instead both the prosecutor and Emoni's legal team decided to negotiate a settlement.

So what happens in Alabama with their star MBB player (possible lottery pick). https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc...332092002/

Nothing. He plays on. Not suspended pending. Not charged yet. I have no idea how I feel about Emoni's case and this case. Different, but one element, a gun, is involved. To my read, both had some tangent relationship to a gun which was NOT THEIR gun. One was charged with a felony and the other suits up for the next MBB game.

Weird, but sometimes the law can be weird. Guys, the law is not black and white. So much gray.

If the plea agreement is sealed and not subject to Freedom of Information or the public none of us except the parties to the plea agreement know the details what charges were dropped and against who. Whether is was fair or unfair is between the parties to decide. Whether a jury would have acquitted him is something we will never know unless the agreement is violated and it goes to trial. I am fairly certain that if either side "leaks" the details of the agreement it is null and void and they go to trial. Ultimately Emoni gets to attend classes and play basketball and maybe do community service and get this off his record. To me that seems fair for a first time offender and a big a win for him and his family. We can all debate if a non celebrity non athlete in the identical circumstances would have gotten the same deal. But that would be counting the number of angels on a pin head.

I didn't link the article I read about Emoni and expungement. Maybe I should have.

What ix expungement? Expungement is a process by which cases are 'sealed' or removed from public view, including law enforcement, government agencies, etc.

When does this happen? The quickest and easiest are if the prosecutor does not wish to prosecute (called nolle pros) the case (what lawyers call b*ll s*it cases) OR acquitted or found not guilty. The defense attorney files papers (I think it is considered a 'motion') to have the records sealed and the judge rules on it. That is quick and easy. The purpose, obviously, is to clear the defendant's name. Certain offenses can be career enders esp. for say teachers, medical professionals, clergy, etc.

The next type is where there is say PBJ. States determine how long the case is open to inspection until it can be expunged. I haven't looked, but I assume one could find Emoni case. It is public until the motion to expunge is granted. Of course, the problem with being famous is if you cough in public (does he have Covid????) the whole world knows. (P.S. I do NOT know if there are different rules under youthful offenders as compared to those of full adult age.)

Expungement is considered differently for a not guilty finding vs. say PBJ. Not guilty can be processed immediately. Think I read 18 months for Emoni's case (presumably PBJ).

In Emoni's case, anyone who would 'hire' him (e.g. NBA) can find the details of his case from his attorney, etc. If a teacher is charged with some B.S. case, and found not guilty, acquitted, nolle pros, etc. that still casts a shadow...

The problem with law is that it seems written for a computer:

Is there a gun present? (Y | N)

Is it registered to the person in possession (Y | N)?

Was it used in the commission of a crime (Y | N)?

Based on these questions (first "yes" rest "no") hard to distinguish Brandon Miller, Emoni and Al Capone.

The kicker here is Q2. Brandon Miller was conveying a gun to someone else. Emoni had passive possession of a gun in a vehicle which was borrowed within the family. Al Capone probably had intended to use it, if 'necessary."

(02-24-2023 10:17 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 09:57 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 09:07 AM)emu steve Wrote:  I think everyone realizes that I thought Emoni got a raw deal all the way around, including EMU.

Legalese for those interested. [I think the technical term for Emoni's sentence was PBJ (not peanut butter and jelly) but Probation Before Judgment. The prosecutor has a lot of options how to handle a case and PBJ is one en leau of going to trial. Essentially both sides agree to it the deal and then Emoni will apply for expungement (which means the case is sealed from all eyes. Of course, Emoni has been 'convicted' in the public, because he is a public figure. If one of us had say a misdemeanor and could try to get a PBJ or nolle pros - the prosecutor decides not to prosecute - the record can be seal. How quickly depends if it is PBJ, nolle pros, or some type of conviction.

EDIT: On second thought I don't know if MI has PBJ or if it is the same in different states.. I think the essence is that probation is negotiated before the guilty plea is entered into. And there is the youthful offender stuff.

Note: If Emoni's basketball career was not on the line he could have fought the charge and probably won, esp. if it was a jury trial. Instead both the prosecutor and Emoni's legal team decided to negotiate a settlement.

So what happens in Alabama with their star MBB player (possible lottery pick). https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc...332092002/

Nothing. He plays on. Not suspended pending. Not charged yet. I have no idea how I feel about Emoni's case and this case. Different, but one element, a gun, is involved. To my read, both had some tangent relationship to a gun which was NOT THEIR gun. One was charged with a felony and the other suits up for the next MBB game.

Weird, but sometimes the law can be weird. Guys, the law is not black and white. So much gray.

If the plea agreement is sealed and not subject to Freedom of Information or the public none of us except the parties to the plea agreement know the details what charges were dropped and against who. Whether is was fair or unfair is between the parties to decide. Whether a jury would have acquitted him is something we will never know unless the agreement is violated and it goes to trial. I am fairly certain that if either side "leaks" the details of the agreement it is null and void and they go to trial. Ultimately Emoni gets to attend classes and play basketball and maybe do community service and get this off his record. To me that seems fair for a first time offender and a big a win for him and his family. We can all debate if a non celebrity non athlete in the identical circumstances would have gotten the same deal. But that would be counting the number of angels on a pin head.

I didn't link the article I read about Emoni and expungement. Maybe I should have.

What ix expungement? Expungement is a process by which cases are 'sealed' or removed from public view, including law enforcement, government agencies, etc.

When does this happen? The quickest and easiest are if the prosecutor does not wish to prosecute (called nolle pros) the case (what lawyers call b*ll s*it cases) OR acquitted or found not guilty. The defense attorney files papers (I think it is considered a 'motion') to have the records sealed and the judge rules on it. That is quick and easy. The purpose, obviously, is to clear the defendant's name. Certain offenses can be career enders esp. for say teachers, medical professionals, clergy, etc.

The next type is where there is say PBJ. States determine how long the case is open to inspection until it can be expunged. I haven't looked, but I assume one could find Emoni case. It is public until the motion to expunge is granted. Of course, the problem with being famous is if you cough in public (does he have Covid????) the whole world knows. (P.S. I do NOT know if there are different rules under youthful offenders as compared to those of full adult age.)

Expungement is considered differently for a not guilty finding vs. say PBJ. Not guilty can be processed immediately. Think I read 18 months for Emoni's case (presumably PBJ).

In Emoni's case, anyone who would 'hire' him (e.g. NBA) can find the details of his case from his attorney, etc. If a teacher is charged with some B.S. case, and found not guilty, acquitted, nolle pros, etc. that still casts a shadow...

To quote a poster on this board: None of us know what we don't know. Sound familiar?

After the events at MSU and around the country I want those who fail to register their firearms or make their guns untraceable or deal in untraceable weapons prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

(02-24-2023 11:11 AM)emu79 Wrote:  After the events at MSU and around the country I want those who fail to register their firearms or make their guns untraceable or deal in untraceable weapons prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

I have a question:

Status of the gun used in E. Lansing: Wasn't it legally purchased???

As we all know, all to well, there are so many shooting it is hard to keep track of the details.

Unfortunately, too many killings today take place with legally purchased fire arms.

(02-24-2023 09:57 AM)emu79 Wrote:  If the plea agreement is sealed and not subject to Freedom of Information or the public none of us except the parties to the plea agreement know the details what charges were dropped and against who. Whether is was fair or unfair is between the parties to decide. Whether a jury would have acquitted him is something we will never know unless the agreement is violated and it goes to trial. I am fairly certain that if either side "leaks" the details of the agreement it is null and void and they go to trial. Ultimately Emoni gets to attend classes and play basketball and maybe do community service and get this off his record. To me that seems fair for a first time offender and a big a win for him and his family. We can all debate if a non celebrity non athlete in the identical circumstances would have gotten the same deal. But that would be counting the number of angels on a pin head.

We literally saw the whole video of what happened. It was posted on TMZ- remember? A jury would have convicted him of a misdemeanor of DUI, except that he was not charged with that. A jury would have acquited him of the gun charges. Nothing is certain except death and taxes and Emoni’s innocence of gun charges..

Brandon Miller supplying a gun used in a homicide and blocking the victims car with his own is 1000 times worse than anything bates did.

(02-24-2023 11:11 AM)emu79 Wrote:  After the events at MSU and around the country I want those who fail to register their firearms or make their guns untraceable or deal in untraceable weapons prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

I don’t own a gun, never have owned a gun, and never want to own a gun. I want every civilian who owns a gun for “protection” registered or otherwise to disown their guns (i don’t consider them a defensive weapon at all, but rather an offensive or counter-offensive weapon only). But no one is ever going to disown their guns and I have no right to judge anyone for their decisions if there are no intended victims.

Also, I feel like you are trying to invoke emotions based on the recent MSU tragedy in order to sway opinion towards your argument.

(02-24-2023 04:04 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  Brandon Miller supplying a gun used in a homicide and blocking the victims car with his own is 1000 times worse than anything bates did.

Indeed it is. But stating such is somehow going to incite members of this board to defend Miller or at least to further demonize Bates. Some on this board want to win an argument at all costs.

(02-24-2023 04:24 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 04:04 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  Brandon Miller supplying a gun used in a homicide and blocking the victims car with his own is 1000 times worse than anything bates did.

Indeed it is. But stating such is somehow going to incite members of this board to defend Miller or at least to further demonize Bates. Some on this board want to win an argument at all costs.

Its ******* disgraceful

(02-24-2023 04:27 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 04:24 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 04:04 PM)dansplaining Wrote:  Brandon Miller supplying a gun used in a homicide and blocking the victims car with his own is 1000 times worse than anything bates did.

Indeed it is. But stating such is somehow going to incite members of this board to defend Miller or at least to further demonize Bates. Some on this board want to win an argument at all costs.

Its ******* disgraceful

Indeed it is, again. Very bizarre even.

What even happened to cause the homocide. At first I thought it was a bar room brawl that got out of hand. But the victim was a female?

(02-24-2023 04:45 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  What even happened to cause the homocide. At first I thought it was a bar room brawl that got out of hand. But the victim was a female?

This is from the Tuscaloosa newspaper:

"https://www.tuscaloosanews.com/story/sports/college/basketball/2023/02/24/alabama-basketball-brandon-miller-nate-oats-criticism-not-suspended-darius-miles-capital-murder/69940924007/

Former UA forward Darius Miles and James Davis, a friend of Miles', have been charged with capital murder. Miller has not been charged with a crime. In a probable cause hearing Tuesday that advanced the case to a grand jury, a Tuscaloosa police detective testified that Miller received a text message from Miles just before the shooting, asking Miller to bring his gun, which was in the backseat of Miller's vehicle. According to Miller's attorney, Miller was already on the way to pick Miles up at the time he received that text. Per court documents, Miles admitted to police that he gave the gun to Davis, who then allegedly shot and killed Harris, who was sitting in a car with her boyfriend.

According to detective Branden Culpepper, UA freshman point guard Jaden Bradley was also at the scene of the crime. Like Miller, Bradley has not been charged, and per UA, police consider Miller and Bradley cooperating witnesses rather than suspects. Miles was dismissed from the team immediately. Miller has continued to play and scored a career-high 41 points against South Carolina on Wednesday in an overtime road win, 78-76, for the Crimson Tide (24-4, 14-1 SEC).


Byrne spoke Wednesday on the ESPN College GameDay podcast and noted that UA was unaware of the text message that Miles sent Miller until Tuesday's hearing. Byrne said the university's decision to maintain Miller's eligibility has included communication with UA President Dr. Stuart Bell.

"It was ongoing (conversation) from the get-go when the incident happened. A conversation between myself and Nate Oats. Conversation between myself and the (school) president," Byrne said. "We have legal counsel involved from the university, (and) different offices within the university that are at least aware of it. Collectively, we decided that Brandon was able to play."

Alabama plays host to Arkansas Saturday at 1 p.m. (ESPN2).

Reach Chase Goodbread at cgoodbread@gannett.com. Follow on Twitter @chasegoodbread.

So to button up three, not two, stories.

Brandon Miller, Mazi Smith and Emoni Bates. One really got the shaft.

Alabama couldn't even suspend Miller for 5 games for violation of some university student conduct rule?

Let me try to connect a few more dots:

1). The gun in the vehicle that Emoni was driving was not his. Neither the gun or vehicle belonged to Emoni. I use the term 'passive possession.'

2). The gun in the vehicle Brandon Miller was driving was not his but was in his possession It was being conveyed. I use the term 'active possession.'

How does one get charged with a felony and the other walk????

Everyone knows Nate Oats is a friggin scumbag.

(02-24-2023 06:23 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  Everyone knows Nate Oats is a friggin scumbag.

So glad you are still with us, BobW! Thought you bolted.

Otherwise, yes Nate Oats seems to have some kind of reputation. This situation is somehow a low point for him.

(02-24-2023 04:45 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  What even happened to cause the homocide. At first I thought it was a bar room brawl that got out of hand. But the victim was a female?

I am going to reply to my own post, since Steve’s response is making the fabric of the CSNbbs universe warp. Anyway…

From another article, I understand there were two cars that trapped the car with Harris and her boyfriend. But no mention of the boyfriend being injured or who was the intended target. And why were there 2 cars with a beef with Harris and/or her boyfriend. It is a very strange/disgusting situation, since Harris/HerBoyfriend obviously posed no threat of the are trying to leave in their car. Did one of them steal from the attacking party? So gross on so many levels.