I'm WAY above my legal knowledge, but was Miller an accessory BEFORE the fact for delivering a weapon used in a murder?

The weapon was not being transported home for safe keeping.

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacodefull/...0indicted.

This happens to be Virginia law. Guess I could have looked for Al.

(02-24-2023 08:15 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 06:23 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  Everyone knows Nate Oats is a friggin scumbag.

So glad you are still with us, BobW! Thought you bolted.

Otherwise, yes Nate Oats seems to have some kind of reputation. This situation is somehow a low point for him.

oh no, just following along. You and Steve are nailing all the issues of which I agree 100%

(02-25-2023 07:07 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 08:15 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(02-24-2023 06:23 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  Everyone knows Nate Oats is a friggin scumbag.

So glad you are still with us, BobW! Thought you bolted.

Otherwise, yes Nate Oats seems to have some kind of reputation. This situation is somehow a low point for him.

oh no, just following along. You and Steve are nailing all the issues of which I agree 100%

I'm doing a quick pivot from the legal to sports, following Bob's lead... The Alabama team looks like a reform school.

IF I'm reading this article CORRECTLY, THREE (!!) Alabama players were, in some way, involved in this case. I see Miles, Miller and Bradley mentioned. That is say 20 - 25% of Alabama's team.

They should just shut down the program for 2022/3.

*************

Former UA forward Darius Miles and James Davis, a friend of Miles', have been charged with capital murder. Miller has not been charged with a crime. In a probable cause hearing Tuesday that advanced the case to a grand jury, a Tuscaloosa police detective testified that Miller received a text message from Miles just before the shooting, asking Miller to bring his gun, which was in the backseat of Miller's vehicle. According to Miller's attorney, Miller was already on the way to pick Miles up at the time he received that text. Per court documents, Miles admitted to police that he gave the gun to Davis, who then allegedly shot and killed Harris, who was sitting in a car with her boyfriend.

According to detective Branden Culpepper, UA freshman point guard Jaden Bradley was also at the scene of the crime. Like Miller, Bradley has not been charged, and per UA, police consider Miller and Bradley cooperating witnesses rather than suspects. Miles was dismissed from the team immediately. Miller has continued to play and scored a career-high 41 points against South Carolina on Wednesday in an overtime road win, 78-76, for the Crimson Tide (24-4, 14-1 SEC).

This is a horrible situation which shows how sports can get out of control if the leadership in place are not ethical, decent people. Does everyone remember the Dave Bliss Baylor basketball scandal?

Hey, according to Oats, Miller was merely "in the wrong spot at the wrong time." What in the hell? Beyond sickening. I had made the point earlier here, during one poster's many, many attacks on Stan Heath's coaching ability-- he was also praising Oats as some kind of savior at Buffalo and now Alabama, that Oats has some serious character issues. I feel comfortable in saying that while some may not agree with Heath's coaching acumen, we can all agree that he is a good man of high character.

Hopefully Bama does the right thing and fires Nate Oats. I don't know how they don't.

(02-25-2023 11:52 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  This is a horrible situation which shows how sports can get out of control if the leadership in place are not ethical, decent people. Does everyone remember the Dave Bliss Baylor basketball scandal?

Hey, according to Oats, Miller was merely "in the wrong spot at the wrong time." What in the hell? Beyond sickening. I had made the point earlier here, during one poster's many, many attacks on Stan Heath's coaching ability-- he was also praising Oats as some kind of savior at Buffalo and now Alabama, that Oats has some serious character issues. I feel comfortable in saying that while some may not agree with Heath's coaching acumen, we can all agree that he is a good man of high character.

Hopefully Bama does the right thing and fires Nate Oats. I don't know how they don't.

Bob, I saw Jay Bilas discussing it this a.m. on ESPN.

Jay is a lawyer and agreed the legal case is very weak, and that it is hard for the school to do something now to Miller what 5 weeks after the murder.

That said, I completely agree that we should wonder if AL is running a sleezy program ? As I indicated 3 of the basketball team members were in the situation. One delivered the gun; one used the gun; a third player was present.

If that happened at EMU this forum would be on fire!!

(02-25-2023 12:10 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(02-25-2023 11:52 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  This is a horrible situation which shows how sports can get out of control if the leadership in place are not ethical, decent people. Does everyone remember the Dave Bliss Baylor basketball scandal?

Hey, according to Oats, Miller was merely "in the wrong spot at the wrong time." What in the hell? Beyond sickening. I had made the point earlier here, during one poster's many, many attacks on Stan Heath's coaching ability-- he was also praising Oats as some kind of savior at Buffalo and now Alabama, that Oats has some serious character issues. I feel comfortable in saying that while some may not agree with Heath's coaching acumen, we can all agree that he is a good man of high character.

Hopefully Bama does the right thing and fires Nate Oats. I don't know how they don't.

Bob, I saw Jay Bilas discussing it this a.m. on ESPN.

Jay is a lawyer and agreed the legal case is very weak, and that it is hard for the school to do something now to Miller what 5 weeks after the murder.

That said, I completely agree that we should wonder if AL is running a sleezy program ? As I indicated 3 of the basketball team members were in the situation. One delivered the gun; one used the gun; a third player was present.

If that happened at EMU this forum would be on fire!!

If this happened here...I think it would be unanimous that we should suspend the season asap. I guess I don't understand why Bilas thinks that way. Why does it matter that it's 5 weeks after the murder? What does that matter? It's not a court of law, it is a university and students need to be protected and the school's reputation should be protected.

(02-25-2023 11:52 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  This is a horrible situation which shows how sports can get out of control if the leadership in place are not ethical, decent people. Does everyone remember the Dave Bliss Baylor basketball scandal?

Hey, according to Oats, Miller was merely "in the wrong spot at the wrong time." What in the hell? Beyond sickening. I had made the point earlier here, during one poster's many, many attacks on Stan Heath's coaching ability-- he was also praising Oats as some kind of savior at Buffalo and now Alabama, that Oats has some serious character issues. I feel comfortable in saying that while some may not agree with Heath's coaching acumen, we can all agree that he is a good man of high character.

Hopefully Bama does the right thing and fires Nate Oats. I don't know how they don't.

Excellent post! Especially the underlined.

You (and Sam) have such a talent to succinctly yet thoroughly convey a message. (This is a talent many of us on this board completely lack )

(02-25-2023 01:34 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(02-25-2023 12:10 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(02-25-2023 11:52 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  This is a horrible situation which shows how sports can get out of control if the leadership in place are not ethical, decent people. Does everyone remember the Dave Bliss Baylor basketball scandal?

Hey, according to Oats, Miller was merely "in the wrong spot at the wrong time." What in the hell? Beyond sickening. I had made the point earlier here, during one poster's many, many attacks on Stan Heath's coaching ability-- he was also praising Oats as some kind of savior at Buffalo and now Alabama, that Oats has some serious character issues. I feel comfortable in saying that while some may not agree with Heath's coaching acumen, we can all agree that he is a good man of high character.

Hopefully Bama does the right thing and fires Nate Oats. I don't know how they don't.

Bob, I saw Jay Bilas discussing it this a.m. on ESPN.

Jay is a lawyer and agreed the legal case is very weak, and that it is hard for the school to do something now to Miller what 5 weeks after the murder.

That said, I completely agree that we should wonder if AL is running a sleezy program ? As I indicated 3 of the basketball team members were in the situation. One delivered the gun; one used the gun; a third player was present.

If that happened at EMU this forum would be on fire!!

If this happened here...I think it would be unanimous that we should suspend the season asap. I guess I don't understand why Bilas thinks that way. Why does it matter that it's 5 weeks after the murder? What does that matter? It's not a court of law, it is a university and students need to be protected and the school's reputation should be protected.

Amen, and I think normally all schools try to stay away from such controversy- while ALSO protecting the reputation of the student athletes.

ie, that one player Steve was endlessly fantasizing about coming to EMU (I forgot his name). He was cleared to play after his heart issue but Florida did not want him to return given the allegation against him that was legally cleared. They did not say anything publicly about it which might hurt the student athletes reputation but sent him on his way to avoid damaging the university image or creating mixed messages of tolerable conduct. (Not saying that guy actually did anything, just the university is turning away an SEC player of the year in the case he may have).

With Mazzi and Miller, I am surprised this was so deliberately whitewashed by the coaches public statements and lack of any disciplinary action. And Miller’s case is SO MUCH worse than Mazzi. All in all, I think EMU handled Emoni’s (dui) case appropriately whether it hurt his legal case or not. In fairness to UA and UM, they were ranked # 2 in basketball and competing for a playoff berth, respectively, so much more tempting circumstances to try and sweep under the rug. Nonetheless, I am so proud of my alma mater given they handled Emoni’s (dui) case in a very responsible manner!!

Good discussion.

And the key point in the comparison is that Bates did not do anything harmful to anyone, although he may have been driving poorly. The gun is question was not used in any way. It was simply present in the car and Bates volunteered that info to the officer-which is a scary thing to do as we've seen other cases of Black men killed by cops after telling them they were in possession of a firearm.

In the Alabama case the gun was used to kill someone, for no apparent real reason. It was transported to escalate a minor conflict into a deadly one. Miller may not have broken any Alabama laws, but he will live the knowledge that he facilitated a murder.

You also can't just dump all this on Oats. He does not seem to have covered anything up or promoted violence within the program. However, it does say something about the general character of his program that 3 of his players were involved in a senseless murder.

(02-25-2023 07:47 PM)pono Wrote:  Good discussion.

And the key point in the comparison is that Bates did not do anything harmful to anyone, although he may have been driving poorly. The gun is question was not used in any way. It was simply present in the car and Bates volunteered that info to the officer-which is a scary thing to do as we've seen other cases of Black men killed by cops after telling them they were in possession of a firearm.

In the Alabama case the gun was used to kill someone, for no apparent real reason. It was transported to escalate a minor conflict into a deadly one. Miller may not have broken any Alabama laws, but he will live the knowledge that he facilitated a murder.

You also can't just dump all this on Oats. He does not seem to have covered anything up or promoted violence within the program. However, it does say something about the general character of his program that 3 of his players were involved in a senseless murder.

Well stated.

(02-25-2023 07:47 PM)pono Wrote:  Good discussion.

And the key point in the comparison is that Bates did not do anything harmful to anyone, although he may have been driving poorly. The gun is question was not used in any way. It was simply present in the car and Bates volunteered that info to the officer-which is a scary thing to do as we've seen other cases of Black men killed by cops after telling them they were in possession of a firearm.

In the Alabama case the gun was used to kill someone, for no apparent real reason. It was transported to escalate a minor conflict into a deadly one. Miller may not have broken any Alabama laws, but he will live the knowledge that he facilitated a murder.

You also can't just dump all this on Oats. He does not seem to have covered anything up or promoted violence within the program. However, it does say something about the general character of his program that 3 of his players were involved in a senseless murder.

What he did wrong and continues to do wrong is allow an accessory to a murder remain on the team and to trivialize the tragedy. I'm not a lawyer, just a decent human being. There is NO WAY anyone involved in a murder would remain on my team. Not an earth shattering statement there. Think of coaches you admire: Chris Creighton, Tom Izzo, Ben Braun, Stan Heath. What would they do? Our sports culture is out of control, we have completely lost perspective.

(02-26-2023 08:22 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(02-25-2023 07:47 PM)pono Wrote:  Good discussion.

And the key point in the comparison is that Bates did not do anything harmful to anyone, although he may have been driving poorly. The gun is question was not used in any way. It was simply present in the car and Bates volunteered that info to the officer-which is a scary thing to do as we've seen other cases of Black men killed by cops after telling them they were in possession of a firearm.

In the Alabama case the gun was used to kill someone, for no apparent real reason. It was transported to escalate a minor conflict into a deadly one. Miller may not have broken any Alabama laws, but he will live the knowledge that he facilitated a murder.

You also can't just dump all this on Oats. He does not seem to have covered anything up or promoted violence within the program. However, it does say something about the general character of his program that 3 of his players were involved in a senseless murder.

What he did wrong and continues to do wrong is allow an accessory to a murder remain on the team and to trivialize the tragedy. I'm not a lawyer, just a decent human being. There is NO WAY anyone involved in a murder would remain on my team. Not an earth shattering statement there. Think of coaches you admire: Chris Creighton, Tom Izzo, Ben Braun, Stan Heath. What would they do? Our sports culture is out of control, we have completely lost perspective.

I think we are finally narrowing in on a moral if not legal question:

The gun was being transported from where to where? Why was it being transported?

What if Miller had been asked to take the gun home for safe keeping? Fair enough. No reckless or careless behavior. It become legally murky ala Emoni. (I'm stuck with the damn weapon in the car I'm driving).

HOWEVER, to transport the weapon to a place/environment where people are gathered, alcohol being served, etc. etc. raise questions that something just might happen. It is the argument about not allowing weapons in bars, etc. where things could happen... (not far fetched at all).

(02-26-2023 08:31 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(02-26-2023 08:22 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(02-25-2023 07:47 PM)pono Wrote:  Good discussion.

And the key point in the comparison is that Bates did not do anything harmful to anyone, although he may have been driving poorly. The gun is question was not used in any way. It was simply present in the car and Bates volunteered that info to the officer-which is a scary thing to do as we've seen other cases of Black men killed by cops after telling them they were in possession of a firearm.

In the Alabama case the gun was used to kill someone, for no apparent real reason. It was transported to escalate a minor conflict into a deadly one. Miller may not have broken any Alabama laws, but he will live the knowledge that he facilitated a murder.

You also can't just dump all this on Oats. He does not seem to have covered anything up or promoted violence within the program. However, it does say something about the general character of his program that 3 of his players were involved in a senseless murder.

What he did wrong and continues to do wrong is allow an accessory to a murder remain on the team and to trivialize the tragedy. I'm not a lawyer, just a decent human being. There is NO WAY anyone involved in a murder would remain on my team. Not an earth shattering statement there. Think of coaches you admire: Chris Creighton, Tom Izzo, Ben Braun, Stan Heath. What would they do? Our sports culture is out of control, we have completely lost perspective.

I think we are finally narrowing in on a moral if not legal question:

The gun was being transported from where to where? Why was it being transported?

What if Miller had been asked to take the gun home for safe keeping? Fair enough. No reckless or careless behavior. It become legally murky ala Emoni. (I'm stuck with the damn weapon in the car I'm driving).

HOWEVER, to transport the weapon to a place/environment where people are gathered, alcohol being served, etc. etc. raise questions that something just might happen. It is the argument about not allowing weapons in bars, etc. where things could happen... (not far fetched at all).

In Michigan, if you have a CPL so can carry a gun legally, you can't carry in a facility that does more than half its business based on the sales of alcohol (typical bar or night club), and can't carry with a BAC of .02 or above. The act of taking a gun to someone who has been drinking and is at a bar/nightclub would pretty much put you in a position of helping to break some laws.

(02-26-2023 08:22 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(02-25-2023 07:47 PM)pono Wrote:  Good discussion.

And the key point in the comparison is that Bates did not do anything harmful to anyone, although he may have been driving poorly. The gun is question was not used in any way. It was simply present in the car and Bates volunteered that info to the officer-which is a scary thing to do as we've seen other cases of Black men killed by cops after telling them they were in possession of a firearm.

In the Alabama case the gun was used to kill someone, for no apparent real reason. It was transported to escalate a minor conflict into a deadly one. Miller may not have broken any Alabama laws, but he will live the knowledge that he facilitated a murder.

You also can't just dump all this on Oats. He does not seem to have covered anything up or promoted violence within the program. However, it does say something about the general character of his program that 3 of his players were involved in a senseless murder.

What he did wrong and continues to do wrong is allow an accessory to a murder remain on the team and to trivialize the tragedy. I'm not a lawyer, just a decent human being. There is NO WAY anyone involved in a murder would remain on my team. Not an earth shattering statement there. Think of coaches you admire: Chris Creighton, Tom Izzo, Ben Braun, Stan Heath. What would they do? Our sports culture is out of control, we have completely lost perspective.

Bob, you present a compelling argument that cannot be denied. Sports have become dominated by W-L records, morals be damned. Urban Meyer won two Natl Championships at Florida recruiting "hitmen" like Aaron Hernandez. Good talent recruiting beats great coaching every time.

You did, however, mention four coaches and only one of them ever reached the level that Nate Oats is at now, Tom Izzo. He also has had his problems, ESPN not that long ago, did an expose' about the misbehaviors of MSU athletes. His players may have not been murderers, but they were hardly model citizens.

At the end of the day, an NCAA coach like Creighton is presented with an option. Play by the rules, run a clean program and stay where you are. Or view the guidelines as gray and push the envelope to higher success and subsequent salary.

Houston is now ranked number one in the Natl polls. They are coached by Kelvin Sampson who previously put not one but TWO basketball programs on NCAA probation. That in essence, validates your argument.

Lot of SEC athletes are...

https://twitter.com/MySportsUpdate/statu...45728?s=20