Crazy to think where we were just a few
years ago with Forbes. Now we only have 1 player that would've played on those teams (Haynes). Man have we fallen back! Oliver's days are numbered imo. This is a bad, bad product!

Lost number 16 today. Will we win 10? At this point — doesn’t matter. This season is obviously done. And, looking to next year - with this coach — no confidence!

Strothers and King should be embarrased at not being able to portray competent bball players with a mind on their shoulders.

The guard play with this team might be the ugliest display of basketball ever to be seen on the court. The failure of this team really falls only on their shoulders and Oliver's as well.

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The program deserves much better than what we have now. This is ridiculous. No way we should settle for this.

We are who we are at this point in the season. We've seen the best and we've seen the worst. If the shots aren't falling, we are bottom pack of the socon. If they are falling, we can win. It's a toss up as to which one we get each game. Haynes is the only consistent offense we have.

Most people i've ever seen in the Samford gym since we've been playing them. We are now 16-4 all-time against Samford in basketball. Time will tell how much that changes.

It is maddening to see the downfall, but I digress.

Looks like the 2nd half was bad based on the comments. My Boilermakers fell yesterday as well - not a great basketball day for me.
Just looking at the box score, the number that stands out is turnovers. FT% wasn't great either. Haynes contributed at a high level and Hairston and Smith contributed. I'm glad that Smith contributed, although the 20 minutes says that there may be something else going on.
Shooting percentage wise, overall we weren't that bad and Samford wasn't great.
On this team, King has to contribute offensively and 7 points just isn't enough. On the good side, 11 FGA tells me he wasn't forcing as many shots.
I'm trying to figure out how Strothers gets 34 minutes, scores no points and 4 turnovers but Smith gets 20 minutes. Are Smith and Coach that far apart that Smith can't get minutes?
The final thing I get from looking at the box score is that the rest of the bench pretty much only contributed fouls. Yuck.

(02-05-2023 06:52 AM)frankenheimer Wrote:  I'm trying to figure out how Strothers gets 34 minutes, scores no points and 4 turnovers but Smith gets 20 minutes. Are Smith and Coach that far apart that Smith can't get minutes?
The final thing I get from looking at the box score is that the rest of the bench pretty much only contributed fouls. Yuck.

I am still convinced that Smith is the most talented guard on the team, but his body language isn't good. Almost like he doesn't want to be playing, certainly not exhibiting any type of leadership on the court. Almost (though not as bad) similar to Lucas N'Guessan's body language during his first season here. N'Guessan turned it around and had a nice senior season, and hopefully if Smith decides that ETSU is still his best fit after this season, he and Oliver can get on the same page so that Smith can help the team. For the remainder of this season, I agree with Oliver's decision to give those minutes to Hairston who plays hard and seems to be more mature.

(02-05-2023 06:52 AM)frankenheimer Wrote:  On this team, King has to contribute offensively and 7 points just isn't enough. On the good side, 11 FGA tells me he wasn't forcing as many shots.
I'm trying to figure out how Strothers gets 34 minutes, scores no points and 4 turnovers but Smith gets 20 minutes. Are Smith and Coach that far apart that Smith can't get minutes?

Right, that King wasn't forcing as many shots - but part of that is that Samford had made the decision that King wasn't gonna beat them by scoring 20 or 30. Can't get this from the box score, but Samford's guard D was perhaps the best we've seen in the SoCon this year. Certainly among the top 3. They were smothering him. But it's to his credit that he indeed didn't take many ill-advised shots. Smith's just not a ballhandler, in the classic sense. He sometimes can take guys off the dribble in short moves, but he's just not excellent at bringing the ball up the court under pressure. And he realizes that about himself. And yes, as others have pointed out, there's just something in his body language that's off-putting. And we know about the blow-up he had with Hughley and Oliver, so "something" is going on there. He's talented, yes, and has a 'larger' game than any other guard we have, but (also as others have pointed out), he just disappears for some games, even when he's on the court. Further, yes, Hariston is eating some of his minutes because he's scoring, and making fewer mistakes.

Strothers gets 34 minutes because he's the best ballhandler we have, unfortunately. (And keep in mind he's a freshman.) When King has the handle, he just makes too many *un*forced turnovers. I bet 3 times yesterday he simply dribbled it off his knee or similar. We simply don't have a Sloan, Petey McClain, Pigram, or even a Sollazzo, Timmy, or Jarvis Jones, for just some examples. We have to make do with what we have. We actually miss Tipler somewhat in that regard (altho, yeah, he had other issues). But he certainly took some of the defensive pressure off of King and Smothers.

[edit: 4 TOs in 34 minutes, against that D, with the ball in your hands as much as it was yesterday, really isn't bad, imo. His mistakes don't appear egregious, for the most part.]

Samford man handled us and got away with a lot of calls. Haynes ( as good as he is) needs not to listen to fans or jaw with opposing players and also dont contest every foul called on him. Our team is playing frustrated and shows. Oliver needs to address this now. We still can play some quality games..... Go Bucs

IS THIS TEAM HEADED TO 22 — OR 23 AFTER FIRST ROUND OF SOCON?

2012-13
(10-22 overall, 8-10 in A-Sun) Seventh in A-Sun
Head Coach: Murry Bartow

This team should beat VMI and Citadel at home at the very least. They might be able to avoid a 20 loss season.

(02-05-2023 02:24 PM)jwfansince73 Wrote:  Samford man handled us and got away with a lot of calls. Haynes ( as good as he is) needs not to listen to fans or jaw with opposing players and also dont contest every foul called on him. Our team is playing frustrated and shows. Oliver needs to address this now. We still can play some quality games..... Go Bucs

Yes I really like Jalen and think he is the best front court player we have had in years and is one of the best if not the best in the SoCon. But the jawing is helping nothing and is hurting the team. Coaches need to take care of that.

(02-05-2023 05:09 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  

(02-05-2023 02:24 PM)jwfansince73 Wrote:  Samford man handled us and got away with a lot of calls. Haynes ( as good as he is) needs not to listen to fans or jaw with opposing players and also dont contest every foul called on him. Our team is playing frustrated and shows. Oliver needs to address this now. We still can play some quality games..... Go Bucs

Yes I really like Jalen and think he is the best front court player we have had in years and is one of the best if not the best in the SoCon. But the jawing is helping nothing and is hurting the team. Coaches need to take care of that.

At least he's an equal opportunity jawer - he jaws at the opposing fans, the opposing players, his own teammates, his own coaches, the officials - I wouldn't be surprised if Jay or Bruce got a little, too. It can be charming and quirky if you're winning, annoying when you're not. I wonder if it helps or hurts in getting calls. I'd say right now as a newby it hurts. When he's a senior and has a little credibility, it might help (although I'm not sure even then).

(02-05-2023 01:54 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  Strothers gets 34 minutes because he's the best ballhandler we have, unfortunately. (And keep in mind he's a freshman.) When King has the handle, he just makes too many *un*forced turnovers. I bet 3 times yesterday he simply dribbled it off his knee or similar. We simply don't have a Sloan, Petey McClain, Pigram, or even a Sollazzo, Timmy, or Jarvis Jones, for just some examples. We have to make do with what we have. We actually miss Tipler somewhat in that regard (altho, yeah, he had other issues). But he certainly took some of the defensive pressure off of King and Smothers.

[edit: 4 TOs in 34 minutes, against that D, with the ball in your hands as much as it was yesterday, really isn't bad, imo. His mistakes don't appear egregious, for the most part.]

So your thinking is that Strothers and King are getting minutes for ball handling so Smith isn't "competing" with Strothers, but with King, Hairston, and to some extent Seymour and Ilic. You may be right.

It's not guaranteed that Strothers will improve as a ball handler, but I think it likely that we'll like him next year or the year after. Big guys and point guards have it the roughest their first year or two. So I'm not down on him; I do wish we could consistently get 4-8 points from him; we just don't have enough offensive firepower to afford a starter that scores so little. I suppose Coach has to pick what he judges helps the most, and right now Strothers getting 30+ minutes is what he thinks is best. I do hope it pays off next year and the year after.

Does anyone know if Kordell Charles is injured?

(02-06-2023 07:49 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  Does anyone know if Kordell Charles is injured?

He is.

(02-06-2023 08:12 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  

(02-06-2023 07:49 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  Does anyone know if Kordell Charles is injured?

He is.

Thanks

(02-06-2023 06:48 PM)frankenheimer Wrote:  

(02-05-2023 01:54 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  Strothers gets 34 minutes because he's the best ballhandler we have, unfortunately. (And keep in mind he's a freshman.) When King has the handle, he just makes too many *un*forced turnovers. I bet 3 times yesterday he simply dribbled it off his knee or similar. We simply don't have a Sloan, Petey McClain, Pigram, or even a Sollazzo, Timmy, or Jarvis Jones, for just some examples. We have to make do with what we have. We actually miss Tipler somewhat in that regard (altho, yeah, he had other issues). But he certainly took some of the defensive pressure off of King and Smothers.

[edit: 4 TOs in 34 minutes, against that D, with the ball in your hands as much as it was yesterday, really isn't bad, imo. His mistakes don't appear egregious, for the most part.]

So your thinking is that Strothers and King are getting minutes for ball handling so Smith isn't "competing" with Strothers, but with King, Hairston, and to some extent Seymour and Ilic. You may be right.

Oh, absolutely. Since you can't watch many games, Sandos wouldn't likely describe that dynamic. But (as I assume you know) Smith is 6'6"; he's not built to be a traditional handle guy. He's more akin to Tommy Hubbard, or A.J. Merriweather, or even a Ben Rhoda, altho not the equal of any of those, skill-wise. Yes, he is listed as a guard, but he's more a tweener. 8-10+ years ago, he'd be a "small forward", and truly he fits that role better. An even better description would be "roamer" like Merriweather, but witihout his speed and leaping ability. And like those players I just named, he *can* help bring the ball upcourt, but would not be able to do that safely over many possessions. Better to think of him as the safety outlet. Rarely (imo) would Oliver call a play just for him. He has to find his spots, and try to be a "do whatever I can" guy.
I don't *quite* say he's competing with Seymour, but possibly somewhat with Ilic. Probably moreso with Hairston - and as I noted in my previous post, Hairston is playing over Smith right now because he's hitting shots, esp. the 3-ball (47% the last 5 games, I think I heard). But Hairston is also not a ballhandler. (In fact, even less so than Smith.) He's somewhat hampered by being (mostly) a spot-up shooter, and needs time to get it off. Don't be surprised if scouting reports upcoming tighten down a bit on Hairston.

In summary...............Strothers and Smith are not remotely interchangeable parts. King and Smith overlap a bit, but not so much, ultimately. Our ballhandlers are Strothers, King, and (formerly) Tipler.

P.S. -- Don't forget I mentioned a month or so ago to not be surprised if Strothers shoots more next year, and successfully. He hit a very nice-looking 3 recently. He's got a pretty shot, with great form. I just think he needs a) more reps; b) more confidence which will come; and c) more confidence from Oliver to let him look for shots in the flow of the game. Also remember his father's a coach, so he's got gym access all year, so I'll think he'll get those 900 or more shots this summer. Maybe more like 5000.

(02-04-2023 04:42 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  

(02-04-2023 04:35 PM)shampoo Wrote:  Samford’s pretty good but not THAT good. The 2023 SoCon would not be competitive against the top SoCon teams of recent memory. That’s what makes this so frustrating to watch.

That's all pretty accurate. Weakest I can remember the SoCon.

We should also be cognizant of the decimated head coaching ranks in the SoCon recently. A partial list would include Nico Medved, Mike Young, Forbes, Parish, Hoffman, Prosser, Wes Miller, and likely some I'm forgetting. (Ignoring the VMI --> Chatt transition.) No, of course that doesn't explain it all - but the coaching turnover has been absolutely excessive. And yes, that comes with the territory - especially if any of those coaches are successful - which many of them were. No way that lack of continuity wouldn't hurt the teams on the floor.

(02-07-2023 04:36 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  

(02-04-2023 04:42 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  

(02-04-2023 04:35 PM)shampoo Wrote:  Samford’s pretty good but not THAT good. The 2023 SoCon would not be competitive against the top SoCon teams of recent memory. That’s what makes this so frustrating to watch.

That's all pretty accurate. Weakest I can remember the SoCon.

We should also be cognizant of the decimated head coaching ranks in the SoCon recently. A partial list would include Nico Medved, Mike Young, Forbes, Parish, Hoffman, Prosser, Wes Miller, and likely some I'm forgetting. (Ignoring the VMI --> Chatt transition.) No, of course that doesn't explain it all - but the coaching turnover has been absolutely excessive. And yes, that comes with the territory - especially if any of those coaches are successful - which many of them were. No way that lack of continuity wouldn't hurt the teams on the floor.

Of course coaches move to more money. But, addiding to this now - the Portal where players are moving in large numbers - some perhaps for money (NIL) as well. If this trend continues - the SoCon and like leagues could eventually go by the wayside.