Aren’t all sports results oriented? I think that is the purpose of the scoreboard and the Standings for Win/Loss record.

Good discussion so far and I like to see the varying opinions.

I think that we all can agree that there is a point in time for all mid-major coaches where they get fired because they haven’t ever made the NCAA March Madness.
The difference is how much is enough for the AD to reach that point at each program.

Is it 4 years? 10 years? 20 years? 50 years?
How long can you go 0-fer and keep your job in a competitive industry where there are only 350 head coaching jobs?

(02-05-2023 09:42 AM)BirdofParadise Wrote:  

(02-04-2023 01:18 AM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  

(02-03-2023 01:19 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(02-03-2023 01:11 PM)BirdofParadise Wrote:  This has to be the dumbest thread I've seen here in a long time. I stopped with the criticism of Keith Richard. I'm sorry, but what a god-awful assumption this dude is making.

Yeah Hart's that way. He said he got told FU in the men's room during the basketball game in Norfolk last night for being a JMU fan. I don't doubt his account but there's a good chance that wasn't the reason

The end of your last sentence is wrong.

And this thread is good. The absolute line of demarcation for success as a mid-major coach is making the NCAA tourney.

Without knowing the Sun Belt history it would be interesting to know the ratio of coaches who got fired for not making the big dance vs the number that got hired away for making the big dance. Is the league a developmental league for coaches or a graveyard for coaches?

I could give you a bunch of examples of why you're wrong. But one will be enough.

Keith Richard is in his 13th season at ULM. That school underfunds all sports and that's why they seldom contend in the major sports. This guy does more with less than any coach I've ever seen. How does he have a job? ULM was getting ready to be in the worst APR mess in the country when he took over. He was told by the President at the time to just go get kids that were good in the classroom. He cleaned up that mess. Now players graduate.

You are a "results oriented" fan, and that's fine. But, as you said, you don't know much about SBC history.

No. Let me rephrase. You're not a fan, you're a critic.

They don't build statues for critics.

Have a good Sunday.

If Hart had his way half the SBC coaches would be fired this year, possibly including our own. Likely 1 out of 14 will make the tourney, and that would "save" their job for a couple years.

Hart is equally (or more) critical of JMU players, coaches, and schedules. He might be happy once we host and beat Bama and OSU. It gets to be a bit much at times.

It should also be pointed out that Richard has coached at the two schools with the smallest athletic budgets in the FBS..Louisiana Tech and ULM. Tech hasn't made the NCAA tournament since 1991.

(02-05-2023 06:04 PM)BirdofParadise Wrote:  It should also be pointed out that Richard has coached at the two schools with the smallest athletic budgets in the FBS..Louisiana Tech and ULM. Tech hasn't made the NCAA tournament since 1991.

Notable Events of 1991:

*“Bohemian Rhapsody” was re-released and reached number 1 in the UK

*Twenty paintings were stolen from the Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam

*Jason Alexander threatened to quit Seinfeld in the third season

*Jeffrey Dahmer was arrested on the 22nd of July 1991

*Kentucky Fried Chicken officially changed its name to KFC

*The Gulf War ended on the 28th of February 1991

*The USSR was officially disolved on the 25th of December 1991

*Terminator 2: Judgment Day was the biggest movie of 1991

*Metallica released their self-titled 5th album in August 1991

*Nirvana released Nevermind in September 1991

*Los Angeles police officers severely beat motorist Rodney King

*HP introduced the first colour scanner in 1991

JMURocks Wrote:If Hart had his way half the SBC coaches would be fired this year, possibly including our own. Likely 1 out of 14 will make the tourney, and that would "save" their job for a couple years.

Hart is equally (or more) critical of JMU players, coaches, and schedules. He might be happy once we host and beat Bama and OSU. It gets to be a bit much at times.

Don’t you agree there is a timeline for coaches to make the NCAA tournament? For you, how long must a mid major coach go 0-fer before being fired?

I think an indication for a coach and how well he is doing could be things like is the coach in the top half of the conference? Or if your paying more than most members are, is the coach winning more or less games than other teams in that salary range. Or you could compare the rankings for the team. I think teams now days are just too quick on firing coaches. And yes I said this view last year as well before our coach who did poorly the last few years has gone on a crazy win streak.

Saying a coach needs to be the 1/14 coach or he's gone is just unreasonable. If we as a conference can continue to slowly improve we hopefully eventually get to that 2 or more bid spots. I don't think firing coaches quickly is the way to get there. As I said on this thread there is a lot more going into the team than just the head coach. It really is a team effort.

(02-05-2023 07:25 PM)Eagleyed Wrote:  I think an indication for a coach and how well he is doing could be things like is the coach in the top half of the conference? Or if your paying more than most members are, is the coach winning more or less games than other teams in that salary range. Or you could compare the rankings for the team. I think teams now days are just too quick on firing coaches. And yes I said this view last year as well before our coach who did poorly the last few years has gone on a crazy win streak.

Saying a coach needs to be the 1/14 coach or he's gone is just unreasonable. If we as a conference can continue to slowly improve we hopefully eventually get to that 2 or more bid spots. I don't think firing coaches quickly is the way to get there. As I said on this thread there is a lot more going into the team than just the head coach. It really is a team effort.

I think 9 years and never winning the regular season and making the NCAAs once with a generational player (Elmore) that he had 3.5 years is not enough at any price. Want to be competing at the top of the conference with a shot at winning it every year, understanding that we won't win it every year. But look at GSU. Or WKU when they were here. Every year you knew it was gonna be a pain to beat those guys and unseat them. GSU is down but I'm talking overall program.

We usually do just enough to get the die-hards all giddy and then muck it up. We're the Cincinnati Reds of college basketball. But one good tournament in 9 years and not any other hardware in the trophy case just doesn't cut it. We've had a real string of keeping coaches too long. I'm all for giving them 4-5 years to see results in the form of championships, but after that it's time to move on. And after they get one they better be able to sustain it or it's a fluke and it's time to move on. We've steadily declined since the 2018 tournament with a good bump this year due to a weak schedule. And we have no future bench to replace key losses. It's just time.

And our coach has stated he won't take a portal kid unless he has 3 years left. F-ing stupid. If someone can help now, take the help. There are no guarantees anyone will even be around in 3 years, coach or player. You can't be rigid anymore as a recruiter. You have to be dynamic and recruit for the next season. No guarantees past that.

(02-03-2023 01:11 PM)BirdofParadise Wrote:  This has to be the dumbest thread I've seen here in a long time. I stopped with the criticism of Keith Richard. I'm sorry, but what a god-awful assumption this dude is making.

His threads are generally the worst. It’s best to ignore him if you can. His favorite bit is to point out long-defunct school and mascot names. He is hilarious in his own mind.

(02-05-2023 07:10 PM)Hart Foundation Wrote:  

JMURocks Wrote:If Hart had his way half the SBC coaches would be fired this year, possibly including our own. Likely 1 out of 14 will make the tourney, and that would "save" their job for a couple years.

Hart is equally (or more) critical of JMU players, coaches, and schedules. He might be happy once we host and beat Bama and OSU. It gets to be a bit much at times.

Don’t you agree there is a timeline for coaches to make the NCAA tournament? For you, how long must a mid major coach go 0-fer before being fired?

In this league, if it's all about making the NCAA tournament, then the regular season is meaningless and only games in Pensacola mean anything.

I will never subscribe to that.

I do think at a certain point it gets there. When William & Mary fired Tony Shaver it felt like I was about the only one who thought it was the right move... But if you ask me, even when it's somewhere that's hard to win the goal is still making the tournament. He was in one place for 17 years and never made it, at that point you've gotta say "this isn't good enough" and take your chances on the next guy getting over the hump or possibly going downhill imo.

That's one place for 17 years though. That's very different from saying a guy's failed because he went like 0 for 4ish at one job then 0 for 4ish at another. Especially if one or both of those jobs required a big turnaround or at least was taking over where the last guy was fired instead of where the last guy was successful and got hired away.