Three names that I believe we should keep an eye on...

Jay Butler (Head Coach - Virginia Union - D2)
Guy has won a lot of games, is a Virginia guy, has recruited the area, and has multiple conference championships. Coached WBB and Volleyball as well in the past, so he obviously is willing to go the extra mile and do extra work. Seems to be a guy that just wins and gets things done.

Ben Thompson (Head Coach - Emory & Henry - D2)
Fairly young guy who already has a conference championship as a head coach at SUNY Canton. They score a lot of points and play an up tempo style. They are high academic and in the midst of transition from D3 to D2, so I wouldn't imagine they have a ton of resources. Also a Virginia guy that has coached at Virginia Tech and VMI, so he knows the state. Was also the recruiting coordinator at VMI.

Tom Palombo (Head Coach - Guilford - D3)
Older guy of the group but has had a ton of success with multiple conference championships and without the resources and packaging that Randolph Macon, Hampden Sydney, Roanoke, CNU, Va Wesleyan have on a year in year out basis. 11 NCAA Tournaments and has been to the Elite 8 six times. He would be the more similar hire to Tony Shaver with a ton of experience. They play a slower pace, but a very good defensive and rebounding team. Also high academic and in the region.

A few random questions and thoughts:

1) I see several mentions of the College’s $1.3B endowment. Apart from the (small) sport-specific endowments, is revenue from that available at all for athletics, or is its use restricted to the academic side?

2) If restricted to academics, are there any funding needs in, say, the kinesiology department that might incidentally benefit athletics without breaking the rules?

3) I assume that, like most endowments, W&M has set a prudent annual spending rate of around 4-5% a year, so that means something like $50-65 million a year is spun off from the endowment. I expect most if not all of that money goes into the general College budget, so even if it’s possible to put it toward athletics, that would mean taking it away from something else. While there is undoubtedly fat that could be cut elsewhere, I don’t see the will to do so at W&M. Ever.

4) it’s dangerous to superimpose my own uninformed opinions on prospective coaches, but I do think Brian Mann is more appealing as a prospective boss and colleague than others I won’t name.

I think Mann realistically only has two options at the end of the season.

1) Fire Dane
2) Extend him for one more year

Letting him just play out his contract as a lame duck will not work and recruiting will likely go in the tank.

(01-21-2023 06:58 AM)Blow Gym rat Wrote:  A few random questions and thoughts:

1) I see several mentions of the College’s $1.3B endowment. Apart from the (small) sport-specific endowments, is revenue from that available at all for athletics, or is its use restricted to the academic side?

2) If restricted to academics, are there any funding needs in, say, the kinesiology department that might incidentally benefit athletics without breaking the rules?

3) I assume that, like most endowments, W&M has set a prudent annual spending rate of around 4-5% a year, so that means something like $50-65 million a year is spun off from the endowment. I expect most if not all of that money goes into the general College budget, so even if it’s possible to put it toward athletics, that would mean taking it away from something else. While there is undoubtedly fat that could be cut elsewhere, I don’t see the will to do so at W&M. Ever.

4) it’s dangerous to superimpose my own uninformed opinions on prospective coaches, but I do think Brian Mann is more appealing as a prospective boss and colleague than others I won’t name.

Dr Rowe is a very good President in many ways. I wish that she was more inclined or had someone on her staff to do the fiscal dirty work that Mitch Daniels did at Purdue University in cutting budgetary fat and focusing on core values for the College.


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(01-21-2023 10:32 AM)Tribester Wrote:  I think Mann realistically only has two options at the end of the season.

1) Fire Dane
2) Extend him for one more year

Letting him just play out his contract as a lame duck will not work and recruiting will likely go in the tank.

Sorry but I don’t understand why being a lame duck coach matters in today’s college basketball. With the transfer portal, a new coach can fill a roster the way he wants. We basically have a new team this year as far as minutes that are played minus Wight.

Just play it out like Mann did with Swanson and don’t renew and hit reset in April ‘24.

I wonder if Bobby Dwyer would come out of retirement to coach on an interim basis.

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(01-21-2023 04:09 PM)LeadBolt Wrote:  I wonder if Bobby Dwyer would come out of retirement to coach on an interim basis.

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You misspelled Charlie Woollum.

A true “For The Bold” attitude doesn’t retain this bland approach to a men’s basketball program another year.


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Mann could offer Dane an extension that only kicks in if the team meets certain objectives that way you announce an extension, but can parts ways after next season if the team still isn't improved

If Dane doesn't accept, then togh no extension

(01-21-2023 04:51 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  

(01-21-2023 04:09 PM)LeadBolt Wrote:  I wonder if Bobby Dwyer would come out of retirement to coach on an interim basis.

You misspelled Charlie Woollum.

You misspelled Tony Shaver….or Bruce Parkhill……or George Balanis.

(01-21-2023 11:54 AM)Touchdown Green and Gold Wrote:  

(01-21-2023 10:32 AM)Tribester Wrote:  I think Mann realistically only has two options at the end of the season.

1) Fire Dane
2) Extend him for one more year

Letting him just play out his contract as a lame duck will not work and recruiting will likely go in the tank.

Sorry but I don’t understand why being a lame duck coach matters in today’s college basketball. With the transfer portal, a new coach can fill a roster the way he wants. We basically have a new team this year as far as minutes that are played minus Wight.

Just play it out like Mann did with Swanson and don’t renew and hit reset in April ‘24.

The downside is that if you don't want Fischer back but 2024 is a really good season, you end up in a spot where you have to bring him back or else you get killed. If Mann thinks Fischer ain't it, he needs to pass the hat, run bake sales, etc. to get the money he needs to make the move.

(01-21-2023 07:52 PM)Rocco Wrote:  

(01-21-2023 11:54 AM)Touchdown Green and Gold Wrote:  

(01-21-2023 10:32 AM)Tribester Wrote:  I think Mann realistically only has two options at the end of the season.

1) Fire Dane
2) Extend him for one more year

Letting him just play out his contract as a lame duck will not work and recruiting will likely go in the tank.

Sorry but I don’t understand why being a lame duck coach matters in today’s college basketball. With the transfer portal, a new coach can fill a roster the way he wants. We basically have a new team this year as far as minutes that are played minus Wight.

Just play it out like Mann did with Swanson and don’t renew and hit reset in April ‘24.

The downside is that if you don't want Fischer back but 2024 is a really good season, you end up in a spot where you have to bring him back or else you get killed. If Mann thinks Fischer ain't it, he needs to pass the hat, run bake sales, etc. to get the money he needs to make the move.

Here’s a problem I’m not losing sleep over

(01-21-2023 07:52 PM)Rocco Wrote:  The downside is that if you don't want Fischer back but 2024 is a really good season, you end up in a spot where you have to bring him back or else you get killed. If Mann thinks Fischer ain't it, he needs to pass the hat, run bake sales, etc. to get the money he needs to make the move.

Anyone who is not firing Dane at the end of the year is doing so because they believe he's capable of moving in the right direction and has the pieces to do so. If you believe that, there's no issue if 2024 is good; you simply renew at that point. That said, I don't know that there's a ton of foreseeable optimism for next year that this team could rocket past .500.

Let's be optimistic and say that no one wants out; what are you looking at next year? Dorsey is your centerpiece, although not really an isolation creator. Wight is maddeningly inconsistent, problems are very coachable but has an inherent ceiling to his game. Lemond has a great profile but it's very rare that a freshman is an impact player on a good team.

Everyone else is *far* from being an impact player and deserves minutes that are in pencil, not pen. Collier and Karasinski would be the other two presumed starters with presumably the highest ceilings but they're simply not productive players yet (today's game notwithstanding). And I liked what Williams showed but I need to see more than four games.

That leaves the staff with two scholarships for the portal (or one, if they and Ayesa have mutual interest in a fifth year). Maybe they can bring in an immediately-ready guy or two. But if you're the AD who has to make this decision in March, are you really waiting to see how that plays out? The roster is already full of his guys and for the last three years all you've seen is mediocrity or worse.

Certainly an unorthodox move in today's college athletics environment, but what stops Mann from making the change and reoffering the job to Shaver for next year? Wouldn't blame Tony for laughing and turning away, but since part of the termination agreement required Tony to seek other positions, couldn't that constitute a reason for voiding that last year, as it would in most unemployment compensation when you turn down re-employment? Four years of a free salary, though deserved, is enough.

Huge is gone, so, Brian may be a very good or tolerable working relationship for Tony. If Tony does not want to continue to coach beyond one year, it could provide an attractive mode for a planned transition for the future (including Aldrich to succeed his mentor.) It would, also, give Tony the opportunity to put a positive note on his career and mend, and would certainly be a feather in Brian's resume for orchestrating a tough situation on many levels.

Dane will find other staff opportunities, and the year separation salary is certainly a solid cushion. Hell, all peace and utopia could ascend, and Tony could be encouraged/decide to retain Dane on his staff which would help with player/recruit retention.

These are good men who are secure enough to put egos aside and provide quality leadership to some good, young athletes. Wouldn't that be old school, refreshing, and reinvigorate the "W&M way"...... Just sayin?

I am not so sure Dane will find any other opportunities after this year, at least on the D1 level. Maybe a bottom tier conference will want him as an assistant coach. Even going back to his assistant years at George Mason, they never had any strong years compared to what they are used to historically. They have shown more promise since firing Paulsen. No D1 team will want Fischer as a head coach.

I do feel back for Julian Boatner and hope he will find another D1 job if Fischer isn't retained after this year. He is still at the point in his coaching career where he can still be a promising coach, but some programs might unfairly judge him based on the poor records of Fischer's teams.

There's just some very, very weird stuff about Dane that tells me that he's not a fit for a head coaching slot. What's up with never letting the team play 5x5 all summer instead focusing on fitness and letting them get to know each other? Isn't that stuff what your supposed to do OUTSIDE OF THE ORGANIZED ACTIVITIES? Why is Rice your starting point guard heading into the season and then becomes that last member of the bench (not counting walk ons) in conference play? How is it even possible to evalute your team that poorly? How come he never tries to manipulate the refs? This one just blows my mind, especially in home games when he can get the crowed involved. He just seems like he doesn't really care about anything. No emotion. A little smirk here and there when on camera. If nothing else he is a complete embarrassment to the college and the fan based.

Compare Fischer to London if you want a real good image.

(01-22-2023 07:24 AM)Tribe32 Wrote:  There's just some very, very weird stuff about Dane that tells me that he's not a fit for a head coaching slot. What's up with never letting the team play 5x5 all summer instead focusing on fitness and letting them get to know each other? Isn't that stuff what your supposed to do OUTSIDE OF THE ORGANIZED ACTIVITIES? Why is Rice your starting point guard heading into the season and then becomes that last member of the bench (not counting walk ons) in conference play? How is it even possible to evalute your team that poorly? How come he never tries to manipulate the refs? This one just blows my mind, especially in home games when he can get the crowed involved. He just seems like he doesn't really care about anything. No emotion. A little smirk here and there when on camera. If nothing else he is a complete embarrassment to the college and the fan based.

Compare Fischer to London if you want a real good image.

The Rice situation is similar to the how Dane handled Quin Blair last year. Dane sure seems to have a "penalty box" at the end of the bench.

I realize that the bring Tony back option, probably won't be tried, but that would be about the only thing that would get me "All In" or should I say "Back In."

(01-22-2023 07:53 AM)NC Tribe Wrote:  The Rice situation is similar to the how Dane handled Quin Blair last year. Dane sure seems to have a "penalty box" at the end of the bench.

Different situations. I don't know the level of personal animus involved in either case, but Blair was a senior on a five-win team and even though he was one of the better players in those situations outside of respect/sense of obligation, there was no strategic reason to play him over the young guys.

This team is trying to be competitive and Rice has not only not earned minutes, but actually been sufficiently bad as to question his future here. It would've been coaching malpractice to leave him in serious games, so although the staff gets some credit for the quick hook on him (and the fact that Dane surely knows he's coaching for his job no doubt contributed to that), they deserve more criticism for the fact that he looks wildly unprepared for the role they put him in.

But again, if he can show strides and he and the staff can stomach each other, I think there's a logical place for him here going forward. This team is going to need a backup PG one way or the other.

(01-22-2023 12:16 PM)FauqDawg10 Wrote:  

(01-22-2023 07:53 AM)NC Tribe Wrote:  The Rice situation is similar to the how Dane handled Quin Blair last year. Dane sure seems to have a "penalty box" at the end of the bench.

Different situations. I don't know the level of personal animus involved in either case, but Blair was a senior on a five-win team and even though he was one of the better players in those situations outside of respect/sense of obligation, there was no strategic reason to play him over the young guys.

The strategic reason to playing Blair would have been trying to win! I can only hope Blair was limited due to the hyperextended knee early on. My intuition tells me it was Dane's "strategy" but it made no sense. He was our best player in every category and he rode pine. Last year was bizarre. 2020-21, as much as it was a waste of a season, was spent having Yuri as the backup ball handler. That team was 7-11. Then 21-22 rolls around and Yuri is coming off the bench and when Rice isn't bringing it up, Lewis is. No wonder Yuri left, he spent two years proving himself to no avail.

(01-22-2023 02:44 AM)Tribeheart Wrote:  Certainly an unorthodox move in today's college athletics environment, but what stops Mann from making the change and reoffering the job to Shaver for next year? Wouldn't blame Tony for laughing and turning away, but since part of the termination agreement required Tony to seek other positions, couldn't that constitute a reason for voiding that last year, as it would in most unemployment compensation when you turn down re-employment? Four years of a free salary, though deserved, is enough.

Huge is gone, so, Brian may be a very good or tolerable working relationship for Tony. If Tony does not want to continue to coach beyond one year, it could provide an attractive mode for a planned transition for the future (including Aldrich to succeed his mentor.) It would, also, give Tony the opportunity to put a positive note on his career and mend, and would certainly be a feather in Brian's resume for orchestrating a tough situation on many levels.

Dane will find other staff opportunities, and the year separation salary is certainly a solid cushion. Hell, all peace and utopia could ascend, and Tony could be encouraged/decide to retain Dane on his staff which would help with player/recruit retention.

These are good men who are secure enough to put egos aside and provide quality leadership to some good, young athletes. Wouldn't that be old school, refreshing, and reinvigorate the "W&M way"...... Just sayin?

Griff isn't coming to Williamsburg, at least not to coach. He probably has the best situation right now in the Big South and is winning with a new arena on the way with an AD that he previously worked under at UMBC. He isn't coming to W&M; it's just not going to happen.