(01-05-2023 10:29 AM)ETSUfan1 Wrote:  I couldn't help but watch Dr. Noland and Dr. Sander watch the game in disgust together last night and chat with each other. They know this team is in the wrong hands. What can be done about it? I'm not sure. I feel like Haynes and Seymour bust their tails. Outside of that? Ehh. I was put off by Kings tweet congratulating himself on 1000 points. It seems like he and Tipler are just in it for themselves. At one point in the game, we just had nobody that could dribble the ball. Strothers was a turnover machine and he can't even shoot. Smith can't dribble. It's just sad.

I remember at one point we inbounded the ball under our goal and it was obvious there was no play and everyone was out of position and it was just a mess. Almost turned it over on that play just because it didn't look like anyone knew what they were doing. It's just night and day from the leadership we've had in the past with Forbes.

Also, I saw Smith and Oliver into it but I didn't see Hugley get involved? What happened there?

100% agree on everything you posted there. In fact, I said last night at least a couple of times "Strothers is a turnover machine." Interesting observation regarding Sander & Noland.

So when Smith came over to the bench, Hugley really got into him, was screaming at him, and he was talking back. They kept going back & forth for a bit. When the team huddled, Smith was out of the huddle with a towel around his neck, and then just sat there slumped on the bench non-engaged the rest of the game. His body english told the story. I'm hoping he doesn't end up in the portal by Saturday, and I'm not joking about that.

If Western can hire a good basketball coach we should be able to also.

Sandos tactfully brought that issue up in the post-game interview, without specifically asking about it. He said something along the lines of "Early on Smith [did blah, blah, blah].....but then he didn't see action the rest of the game." I thought that was a clever way to get Oliver to respond - which he did. He said something to the effect that Smith was a talented young man who's struggling a little bit - or something like that. THOSE ARE NOT DIRECT QUOTES - only my best attempt at paraphrasing. He was calm as he answered, clearly trying to minimize the blow-up.

I do not recall an ETSU game *ever* in which our guards simply had the ball swiped from them as many times. That said, WCU's guards (and all of them, actually) were extremely "hands-y" all night, and their experience and skill at that facet of D was ideally suited to disrupting our guards - of which we don't *really* have a great PG, as we all know. They smelled blood and went for it.

Coach mentioned, as someone else stated earlier, that our "locker room is splintered'. That's a wild thing to admit and not good at all.

(01-05-2023 11:59 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  Sandos tactfully brought that issue up in the post-game interview, without specifically asking about it. He said something along the lines of "Early on Smith [did blah, blah, blah].....but then he didn't see action the rest of the game." I thought that was a clever way to get Oliver to respond - which he did. He said something to the effect that Smith was a talented young man who's struggling a little bit - or something like that. THOSE ARE NOT DIRECT QUOTES - only my best attempt at paraphrasing. He was calm as he answered, clearly trying to minimize the blow-up.

I do not recall an ETSU game *ever* in which our guards simply had the ball swiped from them as many times. That said, WCU's guards (and all of them, actually) were extremely "hands-y" all night, and their experience and skill at that facet of D was ideally suited to disrupting our guards - of which we don't *really* have a great PG, as we all know. They smelled blood and went for it.

Very well said and I saw the same. Also Haynes either needs wider platform sneakers or try and avoid wet spots on the floor ( giving him the benefit of the doubt)

Very ugly statement or else looking for sympathy. We need to regroup again. All games will be tough this year it appears

(01-05-2023 12:33 PM)ETSUfan1 Wrote:  Coach mentioned, as someone else stated earlier, that our "locker room is splintered'. That's a wild thing to admit and not good at all.

AND - that happened last year. Locker room was splintered. Seems like a common theme dating back to last year, because that's what I was told last year, and the Brewers were the cause.

So, I just took a look at how the Brewer Brothers are doing down at UAB. LA is averaging 8.4, and Ty 7.2 ppg. Team is 12-2. They have wins over South Carolina and Georgia. Ty started last game, and LA was starting earlier in the season. He broke a bone in his hand, but could be back for tonight's game vs. FAU. Regardless, they don't look like cancers on that team.

I'm a little fed up with this crap. Splintered locker room means a bad environment. What I observed last night screamed that. I can't believe that's not true now. I had said in an earlier post "what's the way forward?" or something to that effect. Can we afford a buyout of Oliver after this year? I kinda doubt it. But shew - this is gonna be a long haul.

Forbes had much better players, a stable, knowledgeable, veteran staff, no transfer portal and no NIL to deal with.

Good players make good coaches. Coaches cannot take lesser talented players and turn them into good players. Yes coaches can make a difference but the players must put in the time and effort to improve, they must follow the game plan, they must listen to coaches during game and they must play hard the entire time they are in the game and play as a team.. Unfortunately, I don't see the players doing what they have been coached to do. I know for a fact several players have been called out by the staff for not taking practice seriously and not making an effort to improve.

To constantly blame the coach or say they were out coached is just a talking head comment. The players must be held accountable as well as the coaches.

As others have said in earlier posts, how did they play so well in earlier games and play well for the first 12 min of last night's game and then implode. Did our coaches tell them to quit getting back on D, throw crazy passes the length of the floor, dribble into double teams, don't guard the 3pt line, completely lose your man on D, don't block out. I don't think so. This is why Oliver and Hughgley were so mad at some players. Some players went completely off script. How does a 5'9 point guard drive to the basket 3 times in second half and make an uncontested layup? How can the opponent shoot uncontested, 5 footers with not even a hand put up. How can the opponent shoot uncontested 3s the entire game. My take is the players lack of effort and not following the game plan just gave the game to Western.

Forbes and his staff had players doing the same things. Guess what, he replaced them. A couple bought in to the program and turned in to all league players.We saw this same senerio with the Brewer brothers, constantly going off script, reverting to playground, rec ball, destroying team concept. What's the result, everyone is affected in a negative way, frustration, the blame game and the end result everyone suffers. How do you solve the problem? Coaches must try as best they can to recruit high character, hard working athletes. ETSU is not going to to get the kinds of athletes they attracted before NIl, portal and the rise od lower level FBS and the formation of new FBS conferences.

ETSU, along with 100s of simular institutions has fallen to the bottom of the football and men's basketball athletes food chain.

The climate of College Athletics has drastically changed with the PORTAL NI and lower level FBS. It's all about money. The richer will get richer and the poor will get poorer. IMO, ETSU is in the poorer category.

(01-05-2023 01:48 PM)Buc76 Wrote:  Forbes had much better players, a stable, knowledgeable, veteran staff, no transfer portal and no NIL to deal with.

Good players make good coaches. Coaches cannot take lesser talented players and turn them into good players. Yes coaches can make a difference but the players must put in the time and effort to improve, they must follow the game plan, they must listen to coaches during game and they must play hard the entire time they are in the game and play as a team.. Unfortunately, I don't see the players doing what they have been coached to do. I know for a fact several players have been called out by the staff for not taking practice seriously and not making an effort to improve.

To constantly blame the coach or say they were out coached is just a talking head comment. The players must be held accountable as well as the coaches.

As others have said in earlier posts, how did they play so well in earlier games and play well for the first 12 min of last night's game and then implode. Did our coaches tell them to quit getting back on D, throw crazy passes the length of the floor, dribble into double teams, don't guard the 3pt line, completely lose your man on D, don't block out. I don't think so. This is why Oliver and Hughgley were so mad at some players. Some players went completely off script. How does a 5'9 point guard drive to the basket 3 times in second half and make an uncontested layup? How can the opponent shoot uncontested, 5 footers with not even a hand put up. How can the opponent shoot uncontested 3s the entire game. My take is the players lack of effort and not following the game plan just gave the game to Western.

Forbes and his staff had players doing the same things. Guess what, he replaced them. A couple bought in to the program and turned in to all league players.We saw this same senerio with the Brewer brothers, constantly going off script, reverting to playground, rec ball, destroying team concept. What's the result, everyone is affected in a negative way, frustration, the blame game and the end result everyone suffers. How do you solve the problem? Coaches must try as best they can to recruit high character, hard working athletes. ETSU is not going to to get the kinds of athletes they attracted before NIl, portal and the rise od lower level FBS and the formation of new FBS conferences.

ETSU, along with 100s of simular institutions has fallen to the bottom of the football and men's basketball athletes food chain.

The climate of College Athletics has drastically changed with the PORTAL NI and lower level FBS. It's all about money. The richer will get richer and the poor will get poorer. IMO, ETSU is in the poorer category.

But it cannot let the coaching staff not be responsible for the health of the program. WCU went out and hired a coach who had no problem dealing with all the NIL, etc problems and got the team playing great basketball. A smaller school with smaller funds and yet their coaches made our coaches look totally incompetent. It all gets back to hiring the the right coach and to replace that coach with a similarly good coach when he leaves and not a clunker who is going to wreck the program. It is all in getting the right coach.

Carter didn’t know what he was doing, just trying to be Tennessee Jr., and now we have a first-time head coach with none of the experience of building underdog championship teams. An assistant coach at a major program does not translate to dynamic mid-major head coach, lesson learned. Shay probably would be doing better if the kneeling meltdown had not happened. ETSU needs a smarter hire the next time around.

Please proceed to flame me and lob accusations of bias/racism, but it was a subtle Uncle Tom thing to bring Oliver in and have him talk down the kneeling after the white head coach didn’t know what to do and chose to side with the players. Now, 2 seasons in a row, we are watching bad chemistry at the hands of an inexperienced chemist. Rising coaches will look at this program as very risky, perhaps career suicide—having witnessed 2 before them cut short. Someone with some wisdom and poise, but not too old school mind you, will have to come in and rebuild over a 3 to 5 year period.

Believe me, I would love to move past the recent politics and return to pure basketball, even in spite of the portal patty cake game. We need an expert or a dynamo, neither of which Oliver seems to be. He’s apparently some stick in the mud that the players—half of whom he recruited—don’t respect enough to buy in.

P.S. Just hold on, it’s gonna be a rollercoaster year of wins and losses probably bottoming out with a ~.400 win season and either an abysmal SoCon tourney out or some ridiculous underdog championship finish. Kinda like that year Bartow stole the ASun tourney after finishing like 5th place and then we got blown out as a 16 seed. Except can only dream of a First Four play-in game this time. Still predicting Haynes, Smith and/or Taylor transfer.

Don't wanna hustle, hit the portal. Don't wanna listen, hit the portal. Don't get your way, hit the portal.

The portal doesn’t always work out as a lot will find out. Footballs Quinn Smith is an example. Just committed to his only offer, D2 Findlay.

The Bucs made Western look like a good team, not because they hired a better coach or handled the NIL better. The Bucs played horrible. Western has a losing record to some bad teams. As far as handling the NIL, there is very ittle if any any NIL money in the SoCon. Again making statements about coaches that are not backed up with facts.

(01-05-2023 05:50 PM)Buc76 Wrote:  The Bucs made Western look like a good team, not because they hired a better coach or handled the NIL better. The Bucs played horrible. Western has a losing record to some bad teams. As far as handling the NIL, there is very ittle if any any NIL money in the SoCon. Again making statements about coaches that are not backed up with facts.

Agreed 100%. Everyone keeps making a big deal about that, as if it only affects ETSU. For example, Alijah Huzzie, our defensive back, in football would have left no matter what, most likely, portal or not. Transferring from FCS to FBS never had a penalty of sitting out a year.

(01-05-2023 05:50 PM)Buc76 Wrote:  The Bucs made Western look like a good team, not because they hired a better coach or handled the NIL better. The Bucs played horrible. Western has a losing record to some bad teams. As far as handling the NIL, there is very ittle if any any NIL money in the SoCon. Again making statements about coaches that are not backed up with facts.

Exactly. The difference was coaching. All things being equal and they are for teams on our level, the difference is the coaching. And is the reason Western looked so much better.