(01-03-2023 09:58 PM)emu79 Wrote:  

(01-03-2023 09:43 PM)emussuperfan Wrote:  Stay to pay attention to. First half 5 assist second half zero. BG had 10 uncontested layups.

Hey how are the concessions tonight?

They only had the regular two. Also cheesecake vendor which everyone should try at least once. Had a good crowd really, hardly any students.

The only emotion that I saw tonight was an EMU assistant coach who yelled "get the F--- back on defense" while the team was in a huddle during a time out loud enough for us to hear in the last row.

This team plays like they do not care.

Really considering skipping the Central game Saturday.

Once the losing sets in, things can really spiral out of control. And I think that is where we are at.

I don’t think Coach Heath is a bad coach. But the NBA style offense he tried to implement on the college ranks is a clear and abject failure. Probably because we don’t have an NBA team (outside of Emoni- I am sticking with that). It certainly is not fun basketball to watch and is really hard on the players. Those with the isolation have to work for every shot and those not isolated are bored out of the play. Need more movement without the ball to get these guys some easy baskets.

I do think Coach Heath has realized this in both years and started developing plays. But both years he has realized this too late, and once EMU gets a little success running some offensive plays for a few games the opposing coaches have figured it out for the next few games (as Bowling Green did today). Nonetheless, it does show me Coach Heath has can coach basketball, he is just executing it badly these last couple years.

Coach Heath will be here the next few years, and I will support him the whole time. But I am hoping he scraps the NBA style offense for a repertoire of the fundamentals- both offensive and defensive. It is fortunate that he does have very talented players likely coming back next year to utilize it with. This season so far is an EPIC failure which will be noticed even by those outside of EMU.

I just hope Coach Heath isn’t as stubbornly committed to the NBA offense as his predecessor was to the Zone Defense. It really is about next year at this point, but start laying the ground work now. And hopefully pick up some wins before the year is out to change the mood for the kids on this team.

(01-03-2023 09:57 PM)emu79 Wrote:  

(01-03-2023 09:17 PM)EMUGLORYDAYSthe90s Wrote:  

(01-03-2023 09:13 PM)emussuperfan Wrote:  Good the thing we made 17 more free throws or this would have really really ugly !

I said that earlier! Heath is the same category as Boone, who I thought was the worst coach in EMU history! Milton Barnes was significantly better! Charles Ramsey as well! Of those 3, they never had 2 players as good as these two! Heath hasn't performed well so far! I agree with EagleSam I miss Rob Murphy!

Murphy had little patience with younger players and yanked them in and out of games. He had zero offensive schemes. He also yelled and belittled players. His last two years here were ugly.

Agreed. I was done with Murphy after how his last two seasons went. But he would have a winning record right now with this roster, I’m fairly confident of that. He’d find a way to underachieve in MAC play though.

I would rather watch Murphy’s nonexistent offense than Heath’s communication-disaster of a defense. I’ve never seen so many easy layups off simple missed switches and then a complete lack of effort to close out for rebounds. Someone made the same sentiment in this thread…it’s like they’re not even trying.

Ramsey left a mess, and Murphy cleaned it up pretty quick. Murphy also left a mess, and Heath has somehow made it even worse. I’ve never been so disappointed in an EMU basketball season.

BTW, I think EMU really missed the developing defensive side of Billingsley today. Does anyone know why he was out?

(01-03-2023 10:07 PM)emussuperfan Wrote:  

(01-03-2023 09:58 PM)emu79 Wrote:  

(01-03-2023 09:43 PM)emussuperfan Wrote:  Stay to pay attention to. First half 5 assist second half zero. BG had 10 uncontested layups.

Hey how are the concessions tonight?

They only had the regular two. Also cheesecake vendor which everyone should try at least once. Had a good crowd really, hardly any students.

The crowd has actually dwindled compared to games earlier in the year. I had an easy time finding a parking spot today.

(01-03-2023 09:22 PM)EMUGLORYDAYSthe90s Wrote:  

(01-03-2023 09:08 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  It is all but over. Who would have thunk it? In retrospect, that ugly loss at Bradley told us a lot, but we chose to keep believing and hoping and it just never got better. Really, really disappointing state of affairs. I have no idea where EMU basketball goes from here.

Since we're from the same time at EMU, other then Braun who do believe was the 2nd best basketball coach......I can't remember who replaced Braun, he did okay!

To Glory: Barnes replaced Braun. Probably was the next best coach after Braun and Dutcher. I don’t think we realized it at the time because he was following up Braun.

To BobW: we fought the good fight believing up to now! You make a very profound statement above. Really captures an extremely unusual situation perfectly.

(01-03-2023 09:08 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  It is all but over. Who would have thunk it? In retrospect, that ugly loss at Bradley told us a lot, but we chose to keep believing and hoping and it just never got better. Really, really disappointing state of affairs. I have no idea where EMU basketball goes from here.

Insightful post Bob. Yes, I made scheduling excuses for this team's poor performance to date, but this team is horrible. Tonight, made that evident.

This is NOT a team in any sense of the word, we have a diva.

From a W-L standpoint, EMU probably killed this season when we signed Emoni Bates. Yes, I said that, as counterintuitive as it may seem.

Emoni is not that talented. While his game is incredibly soft and backcourt oriented, his height and subsequent lack of quickness there are liabilities.

Yes, he is 6'10", but he plays far much smaller. Notice how Geeter or Billingsley is assigned to the opening game jump ball and closest to the basket on free throws rather than the taller Emoni. He does not rebound or block shots like a player of his length might be expected to do, either.

On defense, let's just say he is unspectacular and largely uninterested. From jump in the second half tonight, the far smaller Elsasser pulled up and shot a 3-ball right over Emoni with zero contest. Ben Simmons, he is not. Passing, rebounding and shot blocking seem also to be activities that Emoni has zero passion for.

He got two senseless technical fouls in consecutive games this season. He appears un-engaged during timeouts with Coach Heath. One might surmise that the Emoni is just serving time until he is eligible for the NBA draft and only interested in personal point totals. His coach is his father who has only NBA eyes.

Finally check out the W-L record at Memphis last year. With Emoni they were 11-8. Once Bates got hurt, Memphis went 10-2 in the regular season. Just saying...

(01-03-2023 10:44 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(01-03-2023 10:07 PM)emussuperfan Wrote:  

(01-03-2023 09:58 PM)emu79 Wrote:  

(01-03-2023 09:43 PM)emussuperfan Wrote:  Stay to pay attention to. First half 5 assist second half zero. BG had 10 uncontested layups.

Hey how are the concessions tonight?

They only had the regular two. Also cheesecake vendor which everyone should try at least once. Had a good crowd really, hardly any students.

The crowd has actually dwindled compared to games earlier in the year. I had an easy time finding a parking spot today.

Agree Ramy, this was a "Murphy" crowd.

(01-03-2023 11:02 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(01-03-2023 09:08 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  It is all but over. Who would have thunk it? In retrospect, that ugly loss at Bradley told us a lot, but we chose to keep believing and hoping and it just never got better. Really, really disappointing state of affairs. I have no idea where EMU basketball goes from here.

Insightful post Bob. Yes, I made scheduling excuses for this team's poor performance to date, but this team is horrible. Tonight, made that evident.

This is NOT a team in any sense of the word, we have a diva.

From a W-L standpoint, EMU probably killed this season when we signed Emoni Bates. Yes, I said that, as counterintuitive as it may seem.

Emoni is not that talented. While his game is incredibly soft and backcourt oriented, his height and subsequent lack of quickness there are liabilities.

Yes, he is 6'10", but he plays far much smaller. Notice how Geeter or Billingsley is assigned to the opening game jump ball and closest to the basket on free throws rather than the taller Emoni. He does not rebound or block shots like a player of his length might be expected to do, either.

On defense, let's just say he is unspectacular and largely uninterested. From jump in the second half tonight, the far smaller Elsasser pulled up and shot a 3-ball right over Emoni with zero contest. Ben Simmons, he is not. Passing, rebounding and shot blocking seem also to be activities that Emoni has zero passion for.

He got two senseless technical fouls in consecutive games this season. He appears un-engaged during timeouts with Coach Heath. One might surmise that the Emoni is just serving time until he is eligible for the NBA draft and only interested in personal point totals. His coach is his father who has only NBA eyes.

Finally check out the W-L record at Memphis last year. With Emoni they were 11-8. Once Bates got hurt, Memphis went 10-2 in the regular season. Just saying...

With all the problems there are on this team, and you write an opinion laden dissertation exclusively on Emoni Bates? I don’t think those two technical fouls Emoni had like 6 or 7 games ago had much bearing on the season.

Another issue I just noticed looking at the box score is Luka was fourth in minutes with 23- after only playing sparingly all season. Why are we still trying to figure out the optimal rotation this late in the season???

(01-03-2023 10:41 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  Once the losing sets in, things can really spiral out of control. And I think that is where we are at.

I don’t think Coach Heath is a bad coach. But the NBA style offense he tried to implement on the college ranks is a clear and abject failure. Probably because we don’t have an NBA team (outside of Emoni- I am sticking with that). It certainly is not fun basketball to watch and is really hard on the players. Those with the isolation have to work for every shot and those not isolated are bored out of the play. Need more movement without the ball to get these guys some easy baskets.

I do think Coach Heath has realized this in both years and started developing plays. But both years he has realized this too late, and once EMU gets a little success running some offensive plays for a few games the opposing coaches have figured it out for the next few games (as Bowling Green did today). Nonetheless, it does show me Coach Heath has can coach basketball, he is just executing it badly these last couple years.

Coach Heath will be here the next few years, and I will support him the whole time. But I am hoping he scraps the NBA style offense for a repertoire of the fundamentals- both offensive and defensive. It is fortunate that he does have very talented players likely coming back next year to utilize it with. This season so far is an EPIC failure which will be noticed even by those outside of EMU.

I just hope Coach Heath isn’t as stubbornly committed to the NBA offense as his predecessor was to the Zone Defense. It really is about next year at this point, but start laying the ground work now. And hopefully pick up some wins before the year is out to change the mood for the kids on this team.

Coach Heath doesn't execute the schemes. The players do. Frankly I don't think they listen to Heath and just do their own thing on the floor. I don't see any chemistry between the players on this year's team.

Observation outside of Jihad I struggle to find one returning player from last year that I honestly can say has improved so far this season. My heart be still there was actually a Ballard sighting last night.

(01-03-2023 09:17 PM)EMUGLORYDAYSthe90s Wrote:  

(01-03-2023 09:13 PM)emussuperfan Wrote:  Good the thing we made 17 more free throws or this would have really really ugly !

I said that earlier! Heath is the same category as Boone, who I thought was the worst coach in EMU history! Milton Barnes was significantly better! Charles Ramsey as well! Of those 3, they never had 2 players as good as these two! Heath hasn't performed well so far! I agree with EagleSam I miss Rob Murphy!

F**k no on Rob Murphy! His awful brand of basketball set the program back light years. 9 years of unmitigated misery. I grew to despise his teams.

(01-03-2023 09:22 PM)EMUGLORYDAYSthe90s Wrote:  

(01-03-2023 09:08 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  It is all but over. Who would have thunk it? In retrospect, that ugly loss at Bradley told us a lot, but we chose to keep believing and hoping and it just never got better. Really, really disappointing state of affairs. I have no idea where EMU basketball goes from here.

Since we're from the same time at EMU, other then Braun who do believe was the 2nd best basketball coach......I can't remember who replaced Braun, he did okay!

Barnes got the keys to the Braun program and immediately underachieved. Second best coach? Damn, would it be Ramsey? Boyce brought in some great talent, results weren't great.

(01-03-2023 09:25 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  

(01-03-2023 07:51 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(01-01-2023 07:53 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(01-01-2023 11:39 AM)Luckeyone Wrote:  Exactly’79

This s no fault of Bates but the other transfers IMHO.

Billingsley - foot speed is too slow for D1 defense
Geeter - ditto
Emoni is a liability on defense but obviously the kid can score.

Acuff has the speed to excel offensively and defensively.
Lovejoy - arguably our best defenders.

Golson-where is he at? This guy should’ve been the starting PF from day one. The team may be disgruntled because we’re not winning.
Noah is playing out of position and sacrificing his game based on the request of Heath.

We’re sacrificing the development of Golson and Jihad for Billingsley and Geeter.

Starting lineup should be

PG Noah
SG Acuff
SF Bates
PF Golson
PF Jihad

6th man Lovejoy

Not D1 level???? You go to such extremes. These guys are a sophomore and a redshirt freshman, give them some time to develop. Big men usually take a little longer. And these guys are doing some good things already.

I do agree that Golson should be getting more playing time, as he clearly plays the quickest offensively. BUT, he does not facilitate offensively (pass) as well as Geeter and I think Billingsley is emerging as the best defensive forward we have (0.7 bpg is really needed in the post). So hard to say who of the 3 should be the starters. And I like the development that Jihad is showing- though would not have him competing for the start just yet.

Wait. So Bates is "back" to starting? What changed? Just slow down the hot takes and observe, let things play out for awhile in MAC play, assess.

Bob, like you, I have been on patience bandwagon. Until tonight. This is a very undersized and slow team that compensates for its lack of length with a lack of hustle and some very passive coaching.

I see very few hi-fives or attaboys from teammates on the court. Our most talented player sits at the end of the bench during timeouts leaning away from the coach, showing an incredible lack of engagement in the TEAM. The pre-season rankings may have been too optimistic, this team is REALLY bad.

Jerry, I think you are right. I just don't see how this can get turned around.

(01-03-2023 09:55 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  I’m actually not surprised on what happened today because we coached, schemed, had the same players on the floor to open MAC play as we did for out of conference.

At some point reality has got to set in that Heath has lost his college coaching techniques. This is the worst defensive team in the country and the offense is barely better with no improvement. Heath has LOST this team. I would be very surprised if we win 8 games. To Ramys point in an earlier thread, Heath will Not be able to recruit future highly sought after players because coaches will suggest to these players that if Heath can not win with two 5 stars how will he win with you?? He can’t!

Moreover, I don’t care about any draft magazines because Emoni is not playing in the league next year. He doesn’t have the foot speed to play defense against SG, or SFs. Maybe if he gained 25 LBs he could be a stretch 4. He is a defensive liability and his man scores easily. However I would probably play him because he is a scoring option but I may not start him.

Geeter - not enough foot speed to be a starting D1 PF. You can not coach speed, you either have it or you don’t and Geeter doesn’t.
Billingsley - ditto Geeter comments.
While on defense, I watched BG spread the floor and while the ball was on one side of the court, I saw our weak side defender (Acuff) guard his man without the ball like he was his shadow. LOL hasn’t Heath ever heard of playing weak side defenders in the paint for help defense. There was a layup drill underway the whole game because we guarded the ball 1 on 1 too closely and got beat off the dribble for layups with no help defense.

I stand by my proposed lineup.

Finally, I do NOT miss Murphy and EMU will have to find money to get rid of Heath.

You stand by which proposed lineup? The one where Emoni starts or the one where he doesn't? I do agree with you that I don't miss Murphy either.

(01-03-2023 10:57 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(01-03-2023 09:22 PM)EMUGLORYDAYSthe90s Wrote:  

(01-03-2023 09:08 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  It is all but over. Who would have thunk it? In retrospect, that ugly loss at Bradley told us a lot, but we chose to keep believing and hoping and it just never got better. Really, really disappointing state of affairs. I have no idea where EMU basketball goes from here.

Since we're from the same time at EMU, other then Braun who do believe was the 2nd best basketball coach......I can't remember who replaced Braun, he did okay!

To Glory: Barnes replaced Braun. Probably was the next best coach after Braun and Dutcher. I don’t think we realized it at the time because he was following up Braun.

To BobW: we fought the good fight believing up to now! You make a very profound statement above. Really captures an extremely unusual situation perfectly.

Ramy, kudos to you. You have been steady and reasonable the whole time. In sports, we've seen it our whole lives; talent usually wins out, new teams get acclimated and improve and in the end, good things happen UNLESS the team is dysfunctional. I will still watch but my expectations are really low. At this point, I am rooting for the team to not give up or embarrass themselves.

It looked Bowling Green had a simple but effective two prong strategy. One is to double team Bates and force the other EMU players to beat them. The second was by double teaming Bates they would limit his deadly outside 3s and force him to drive to the basket and get only 2s. I would not be surprised to see other MAC teams employ a similar strategy after watching film of this game.

Loss to BG was awful.

Wanted to see Heath try to have his players force opponents to shoot fewer three's and shoot a lower percentage. I've said that repeatedly here. That's not happening and will not happen.

As BG shot 10-23 on three's. That's 5 more three's and 15 more points than BG should have been allowed to score. If BG had scored just 5 three's they would have scored in the 70's. and not the 91-points that they did.

Nor does Heath station anyone to defend the rim. Until Heath gets a decent defensive system there's no reason to discuss the quality of EMU's players. It's a waste of time. Nor does EMU have any chance to succeed in conference play.