(12-01-2022 12:44 PM)Buc76 Wrote:  [You are leaving out some very important differences between Forbes time and the current times, the rise of lower level FBS conferences, transfer [/align]portal and the NIL. He didn't have to deal with any of those major changes in recriuting and maintaing players.

In no way was that meant to be an exhaustive or complete analysis - or even a Forbes/Oliver comparison. At most, it was meant as a comment about Forbes's ability at that skill - vs. that still being unknown with Oliver. It was more commenting on the dynamics of the portal, and the challenge(s) of completing a team with "portalees" ().

In retrospect, we know that Forbes (and by extension, shay) "filtered" his players by not playing them and discouraging them - or encouraging them to go elsewhere. Myself and some others suspected that at the time. Oliver's "filtering" is of course of a different flavor, with a different set of pros and cons. WAY too early to tell how successful he'll be with all those factors. By March, we'll have *some* idea, but not 'til (the middle of?) next season can we even begin to make a fair comparison.

Buc76 stated — “Wofford, Furman, Samford, VMI, Citadel, etc are not our 'peers'. Dr. Noland has repeatedly stated his goal is to grow ETSU to 18,000 students. None of the SoCon schools have that goal and some cannot achieve any growth at all.”


Just saying — the Board of Trustees Meeting - November, 2022 - Strategic Agenda Update has these institutions listed as our PEERS using some sort of index rating system obviously not including athletics.

University of South Alabama
University of North Carolina at Greensboro
Marshall University
Northern Illinois University
Western Carolina University
University of Memphis
Wright State University - Main Campus
University of Louisiana at Lafayette
University of Tennessee - Chattanooga
East Carolina University
Central Michigan University
The University of Montana
Wichita State University
University of Missouri - Kansas City
Arkansas State University

Obviously —— as a regional state university, the ideal regional athletic conference for ETSU would be in a conference composed of an expanded Eastern Division of the SBC:


Coastal Carolina
James Madison
Marshall
App State
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
Old Dominion

With these additions:
ETSU
UTC
Eastern Kentucky
Jacksonville State
Western Carolina

Interestingly, the women's team is proving right now that you can win the very next year despite having major problems, controversy, and tons of losses. It's amazing to me that Coach Mock can come in, and with many of the same players, by December has already won more games than all of last year. And, beat a power 5 school on top of all that. It just shows that despite all the crap, if you put the right leader in place, you can win and fans will come watch.

(12-01-2022 04:24 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  Buc76 stated — “Wofford, Furman, Samford, VMI, Citadel, etc are not our 'peers'. Dr. Noland has repeatedly stated his goal is to grow ETSU to 18,000 students. None of the SoCon schools have that goal and some cannot achieve any growth at all.”


Just saying — the Board of Trustees Meeting - November, 2022 - Strategic Agenda Update has these institutions listed as our PEERS using some sort of index rating system obviously not including athletics.

University of South Alabama
University of North Carolina at Greensboro
Marshall University
Northern Illinois University
Western Carolina University
University of Memphis
Wright State University - Main Campus
University of Louisiana at Lafayette
University of Tennessee - Chattanooga
East Carolina University
Central Michigan University
The University of Montana
Wichita State University
University of Missouri - Kansas City
Arkansas State University

Obviously —— as a regional state university, the ideal regional athletic conference for ETSU would be in a conference composed of an expanded Eastern Division of the SBC:


Coastal Carolina
James Madison
Marshall
App State
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
Old Dominion

With these additions:
ETSU
UTC
Eastern Kentucky
Jacksonville State
Western Carolina

I'd like to see Charlotte & Liberty in there as well.

(12-02-2022 02:30 PM)squeak Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 04:24 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  Buc76 stated — “Wofford, Furman, Samford, VMI, Citadel, etc are not our 'peers'. Dr. Noland has repeatedly stated his goal is to grow ETSU to 18,000 students. None of the SoCon schools have that goal and some cannot achieve any growth at all.”


Just saying — the Board of Trustees Meeting - November, 2022 - Strategic Agenda Update has these institutions listed as our PEERS using some sort of index rating system obviously not including athletics.

University of South Alabama
University of North Carolina at Greensboro
Marshall University
Northern Illinois University
Western Carolina University
University of Memphis
Wright State University - Main Campus
University of Louisiana at Lafayette
University of Tennessee - Chattanooga
East Carolina University
Central Michigan University
The University of Montana
Wichita State University
University of Missouri - Kansas City
Arkansas State University

Obviously —— as a regional state university, the ideal regional athletic conference for ETSU would be in a conference composed of an expanded Eastern Division of the SBC:


Coastal Carolina
James Madison
Marshall
App State
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
Old Dominion

With these additions:
ETSU
UTC
Eastern Kentucky
Jacksonville State
Western Carolina

I'd like to see Charlotte & Liberty in there as well.

The list of peers above have nothing to do with sports. They are academic peers. Salaries are compared to that peer base, amount of sponsored research and grants, etc.

Absolutely nothing to do with athletics.

(11-30-2022 09:03 AM)GoBucsGo Wrote:  Yeah, I don't see things quite as dire as most on this board.

First, the transfer portal can taketh away, but it can also provide. Case in point is our basketball team, made up mostly of transfers. I remember distinctly several posts on this board last year accusing Oliver of not using the portal, yet, he used it a lot. If he can get the team to play as a team, I think the team can still have a successful year, despite these 3 straight losses.

Football is the same way. I've never seen a message board with such short memories. Remember the 2019 football season? I guess not. Randy and the Bucs went 3-9. What did they do the following year? Quarterfinals of the FCS playoffs, won the league. I seem to remember many on here calling for his head in '19 too. Football can turn on a dime. I hope that Quarles uses the transfer portal, because I think there are plenty of good athletes in there that could help us on both sides of the ball next year. There are plenty of FBS players trying to find a place to play that we were not in the running for when those kids came out of high school. Also, everyone has pretty much ignored the fact we fired the OC Adam Neugebauer yesterday. So changes could be afoot, and I wouldn't just assume the team will suck. On the other hand, we could have had Tyler Roehl as our head coach, which sounds a lot better than Quarles. Roehl is the OC for ND State, and was a finalist for the head coaching job. Of course Scott went with someone he already knew. Regardless, I'm willing to have an ounce of patience for Quarles.I'm not a UT fan, after all. Lol. Firing him right now would be ignorant, and would set up a culture of "win now or else," and it would be awfully difficult to bring in a coach with that kind of set up at any level.

As far as long-term for athletics, we could easily expand the football stadium and move up to FBS when the time is right. Freedom Hall as is would be fine to go to the SunBelt. Travel would absolutely suck if we do that, we the exception of App State. However, the SoCon is not such a bad place to be for now, though, because 1) it's stable in terms of membership; 2) Travel isn't too expensive, and 3) it's a pretty solid league in its own right in both football & basketball, although we haven't been a part of that so far this year. In football, the league qualified two for the FCS playoffs, so that's good, In basketball, at least with the men, there are several teams that no one wants to play. Wofford, who isn't all that great, took LSU to the wire, and Furman whipped South Carolina by 19. Mercer played Florida State pretty tough, and there are other examples. So, I guess I don't see how the SoCon is "suffering" so much.

Finally, how about the mental toughness of our women's team? This is a team the coach didn't even recruit, and a staff that the coach had no role in choosing, yet they're sitting 6-2. They play hellish defense, they rebound, and they play hard as hell. They play much better as a team than the guys, and clearly, they're mentally tougher and have more mental intensity than the guys do. Basketball is all about mental toughness and intensity, doing the same thing over & over again the same way, and playing together. The guys aren't showing much of that at the moment.

I know I'm the pollyanna wide-eyed optimist here, so let me have it.

I agree with you. Sure, college sports are evolving but they always have. I really think we will be fine in mens basketball sooner rather than later. Quarles has his work cut out for him but we'll see what he is capable of this off season. He has a chance by hiring a good OC. I certainly hope he does.

(12-02-2022 07:42 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  

(12-02-2022 02:30 PM)squeak Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 04:24 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  Buc76 stated — “Wofford, Furman, Samford, VMI, Citadel, etc are not our 'peers'. Dr. Noland has repeatedly stated his goal is to grow ETSU to 18,000 students. None of the SoCon schools have that goal and some cannot achieve any growth at all.”


Just saying — the Board of Trustees Meeting - November, 2022 - Strategic Agenda Update has these institutions listed as our PEERS using some sort of index rating system obviously not including athletics.

University of South Alabama
University of North Carolina at Greensboro
Marshall University
Northern Illinois University
Western Carolina University
University of Memphis
Wright State University - Main Campus
University of Louisiana at Lafayette
University of Tennessee - Chattanooga
East Carolina University
Central Michigan University
The University of Montana
Wichita State University
University of Missouri - Kansas City
Arkansas State University

Obviously —— as a regional state university, the ideal regional athletic conference for ETSU would be in a conference composed of an expanded Eastern Division of the SBC:


Coastal Carolina
James Madison
Marshall
App State
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
Old Dominion

With these additions:
ETSU
UTC
Eastern Kentucky
Jacksonville State
Western Carolina

I'd like to see Charlotte & Liberty in there as well.

The list of peers above have nothing to do with sports. They are academic peers. Salaries are compared to that peer base, amount of sponsored research and grants, etc.

Absolutely nothing to do with athletics.

100% correct. Has nothing to do with athletics. I’m a faculty here on campus and this is discussed incessantly, and by the way, those peer lists change depending on what the admin is trying to argue for. That’s not unique to ETSU, that’s everywhere.

And sorry, but in athletics or anything else, I sure hope Liberty is never a peer. Outside of the obvious (they’re a private Christian university with very little if any strong scholarly activity), Ian McCaw is their athletic director, and he came from Baylor. He managed the mess that was Baylor with all the sexual harassment accusations. I want nothing to do with them.

Liberty acts like a christian school while their president is a pervert and they hire a football coach who paid for prostitutes (hugh freeze at ole miss).

The epitome of hypocrisy. Can't stand that school

(12-03-2022 11:40 AM)Buced_Up Wrote:  Liberty acts like a christian school while their president is a pervert and they hire a football coach who paid for prostitutes (hugh freeze at ole miss).

The epitome of hypocrisy. Can't stand that school

Thank goodness the morality police are here to set me straight. Just because the preacher is erring doesn't mean the congregation is aberrant.

(12-02-2022 07:42 PM)BucDoctor Wrote:  

(12-02-2022 02:30 PM)squeak Wrote:  

(12-01-2022 04:24 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  Buc76 stated — “Wofford, Furman, Samford, VMI, Citadel, etc are not our 'peers'. Dr. Noland has repeatedly stated his goal is to grow ETSU to 18,000 students. None of the SoCon schools have that goal and some cannot achieve any growth at all.”


Just saying — the Board of Trustees Meeting - November, 2022 - Strategic Agenda Update has these institutions listed as our PEERS using some sort of index rating system obviously not including athletics.

University of South Alabama
University of North Carolina at Greensboro
Marshall University
Northern Illinois University
Western Carolina University
University of Memphis
Wright State University - Main Campus
University of Louisiana at Lafayette
University of Tennessee - Chattanooga
East Carolina University
Central Michigan University
The University of Montana
Wichita State University
University of Missouri - Kansas City
Arkansas State University

Obviously —— as a regional state university, the ideal regional athletic conference for ETSU would be in a conference composed of an expanded Eastern Division of the SBC:


Coastal Carolina
James Madison
Marshall
App State
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
Old Dominion

With these additions:
ETSU
UTC
Eastern Kentucky
Jacksonville State
Western Carolina

I'd like to see Charlotte & Liberty in there as well.

The list of peers above have nothing to do with sports. They are academic peers. Salaries are compared to that peer base, amount of sponsored research and grants, etc.

Absolutely nothing to do with athletics.

Yep, read it again, I said, “obviously not including athletics”.

Lol not calling you out squeak. Just saying I don’t like the school. We should be playing all the schools you mentioned on a regular basis. I wish we would play Charlotte more for sure

(12-03-2022 08:19 PM)Buced_Up Wrote:  Lol not calling you out squeak. Just saying I don’t like the school. We should be playing all the schools you mentioned on a regular basis. I wish we would play Charlotte more for sure

Desperately need to get this athletic mess in football and men’s basketball fixed before even thinking about who we are playing. There’s no excuse for this crap!!

(12-03-2022 09:22 AM)GoBucsGo Wrote:  [quote='BucDoctor' pid='18636533' dateline='1670028129']
[quote='squeak' pid='18635800' dateline='1670009425']
[quote='Buc66' pid='18633484' dateline='1669929880']
Buc76 stated — “Wofford, Furman, Samford, VMI, Citadel, etc are not our 'peers'. Dr. Noland has repeatedly stated his goal is to grow ETSU to 18,000 students. None of the SoCon schools have that goal and some cannot achieve any growth at all.”



And sorry, but in athletics or anything else, I sure hope Liberty is never a peer. Outside of the obvious (they’re a private Christian university with very little if any strong scholarly activity), Ian McCaw is their athletic director, and he came from Baylor. He managed the mess that was Baylor with all the sexual harassment accusations. I want nothing to do with them.

Agreed. Liberty is a cesspool, from academics to athletics.

The Womens team did what they where supposed to against cupcake Lynchburg today, improving to 8-2 on the season. Next Sunday promises to be the biggest game of the season so far when the women host MAC team Bowling Green, at team currently at 6-1, with their only loss to date being then #12 Indiana. Near as I can tell, unlike ETSU, the Bowling Green womens team didn't play in any of the mini tournaments around Thanksgiving.

The season is still young, but Bowling Green may be the biggest test to date to determine where exactly the women are right now. Far as I can tell there is no midweek game either, so this will give time for players to rest up, and hopefully give Coach Brown time to make any necessary adjustments she thinks could help.

College degree value plummets as woke insanity spikes
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/college-...ity-spikes

Am sure coming from Fox News, some might object — but the content speaks of a real problem in higher education — escalating costs, worthless degrees, and unmanageable debt. How does this tie into college athletics? Well, at the mid-major and below levels, the dependency on student fees to pay for athletics is going to collide with this reality at some point. Of course, on the academic side, colleges are going to be facing a reckoning with relation to their decreasing enrollment, their degree programs, and the real job market. Just for fun.

(12-06-2022 07:39 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  College degree value plummets as woke insanity spikes
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/college-...ity-spikes

Am sure coming from Fox News, some might object — but the content speaks of a real problem in higher education — escalating costs, worthless degrees, and unmanageable debt. How does this tie into college athletics? Well, at the mid-major and below levels, the dependency on student fees to pay for athletics is going to collide with this reality at some point. Of course, on the academic side, colleges are going to be facing a reckoning with relation to their decreasing enrollment, their degree programs, and the real job market. Just for fun.

I looked up the writer of that story - it was actually an opinion piece, not a story - and learned that most of her columns of the year fall between "false" and "pants on fire" by potifact. Just thought I'd throw that in there, since you posted it.

(12-07-2022 09:31 PM)kevster Wrote:  

(12-06-2022 07:39 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  College degree value plummets as woke insanity spikes
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/college-...ity-spikes

Am sure coming from Fox News, some might object — but the content speaks of a real problem in higher education — escalating costs, worthless degrees, and unmanageable debt. How does this tie into college athletics? Well, at the mid-major and below levels, the dependency on student fees to pay for athletics is going to collide with this reality at some point. Of course, on the academic side, colleges are going to be facing a reckoning with relation to their decreasing enrollment, their degree programs, and the real job market. Just for fun.

I looked up the writer of that story - it was actually an opinion piece, not a story - and learned that most of her columns fall between "false" and "pants on fire" by politifact. Just thought I'd throw that in there, since you posted it.

What is true, and has been mentioned by Dr. Noland publicly in presentations, is that many people do not perceive a college degree to be worth the cost anymore, and there is a political element to that.

I get it. As a parent to a soon to be college student, I won't be paying for certain types of degrees and I will be somewhat selective in what types of institutions I send my children to. The cost and debt is indeed increasing over time, there are many degrees that do not seem to have an economic payoff, and the concern about instructor indoctrination is legitimate among many parents. I won't get into a prolonged discussion of this since this is supposed to be sports forum, but it doesn't take a fact-checker to know that many people have these concerns and that they have the potential to influence all aspects of a university's budget- including athletics.

Kinda hate to put this item here, as it may likely get lost, but oh well.........this seems to be the most recent thread in which this stuff is being discussed. This was a story that was on WCYB tonight, in which Sander was interviewed, and also Seth Greenberg and Debbie Antonelli, another ESPN analyst. Not clear where/when these interviews were conducted, altho I suspect maybe the latter two were at the SoCon media day in Asheville? Looks like that court. Kinda has the feel of a story that percolated for awhile. Not really any 'news', but I have to say Sander didn't seem happy at all. Almost discouraged and concerned. Made the point that mid-majors need to play each other - which of course we already well know. Mentioned NIL, but didn't really elaborate.

Sander, Greenberg, etc. discuss challenges of mid-majors vs. P%

Go to the 15:47 mark. It's about 2-3 minutes. They don't seem to have a separate link to just this story.

(12-07-2022 09:32 PM)kevster Wrote:  

(12-07-2022 09:31 PM)kevster Wrote:  

(12-06-2022 07:39 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  College degree value plummets as woke insanity spikes
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/college-...ity-spikes

Am sure coming from Fox News, some might object — but the content speaks of a real problem in higher education — escalating costs, worthless degrees, and unmanageable debt. How does this tie into college athletics? Well, at the mid-major and below levels, the dependency on student fees to pay for athletics is going to collide with this reality at some point. Of course, on the academic side, colleges are going to be facing a reckoning with relation to their decreasing enrollment, their degree programs, and the real job market. Just for fun.

I looked up the writer of that story - it was actually an opinion piece, not a story - and learned that most of her columns fall between "false" and "pants on fire" by politifact. Just thought I'd throw that in there, since you posted it.

Rising college costs, rising student debt, and degrees that don’t land jobs sufficient to repay these debts is not an opinion. As for college athletics in all this — my point, since student fees, as part of these rising costs and debts, fund mid-major college sports, how long can this be sustained? The big boys get it, actually got it years ago, and have cornered TV revenue and are now consolidating that to pay their way. Mid-major college sports must find other revenue sources and/or completely restructure in order to cut costs unless colleges find ways to cut student tuition and other costs.