Kentucky 95 Ohio 86
- UK was beatable, as they aren't a good 3 point shooting team and their D is suspect. They lost earlier to Murray St when they only scored 44. Was tied at the half. Ohio tried, driving at will to get to the bucket often, and made a lot of their open threes, but the OU defense was not good, they got killed on the boards and just made too many mistakes in the end.

WVU 82 Miami 51
- WVU led by double digits the whole game, but Q4 was another disaster for MU as that went to WVU 25-7.

ND 85 WMU 57
- Was a game at the half, but ND scored the first 17 points of the 2nd half, and it was over. WMU did better than either NIU (40 point loss) or BSU (35 point loss).

IUPUI 85 NIU 72
- Recall that IUPUI beat Ohio, but lost to BSU, BG and EMU. The Jags shot lights out from three, 17-29 for 59%. IUPUI a 4-6 team coming in.

EMU 66 Wright St 54
- At the St Joe's tourney. Game was tied at the half.

Duke 70 Virginia 56
- UVA undefeated coming in although has not played a very strong schedule so far, but they did beat Penn St badly. Duke is now 10-1 and had a top 10 NET coming in.

Penn St 79 Cornell 48
- There are some good teams in the Ivy. Cornell is not one of them.

#18 Arizona 78 UT Arlington 59
- UTA got behind big right from the start, but after that, seemed to hang with the 'cats.

NKU 72 Cincy 52
- Yikes. What the heck is up with Cinci, they seem to be Dr Jeckyll-Mr Hyde team, you never know which one you are gonna get.

Missouri St 55 Little Rock 48

(12-21-2022 04:36 PM)northcoastRocket Wrote:  

(12-21-2022 04:27 PM)Lester Wrote:  How does Charlie Creme pick Bowling Green over the Rockets right now? That seems to me like someone who isn't paying attention. Bowling Green has beaten no one.

Well BG's NET right now is 43, while UT's is 56. True that BG hasn't beat anyone (best win is over NKU @ NET 136) but they haven't lost (except to Indiana) and are pounding those weak teams, which NET likes.

Yeah, NET likes blowouts, so I guess tonight helped the Rockets.

Non conference season mostly over, save a handful of games next week, the only one of those of consequence for the MAC is OU vs Columbia. So, let's take a look at NET rankings for MAC teams and UT opponents so far.

Team / NET / OpScs / OpNET / D1Rec / NC SOS
Duke / 11 / 70 / 121 / 11-1 / 85
Mich / 19 / 88 / 150 / 11-1 / 63
BGSU / 44 / 241 / 218 / 10-1 / 238
Toledo / 55 / 118 / 168 / 9-2 / 108
PennSt / 58 / 128 / 127 / 9-4 / 234
BallSt / 89 / 222 / 157 / 8-3 / 216
Kent / 96 / 71 / 131 / 5-3 / 67
Akron / 123 / 325 / 187 / 6-2 / 321
Cinci / 128 / 269 / 190 / 7-6 / 266
MizSt / 132 / 96 / 122 / 5-4 / 86
UTArl / 140 / 44 / 133 / 5-6 / 47
NIU / 152 / 228 / 224 / 8-3 / 221
EMU / 184 / 347 / 228 / 7-3 / 348
Oaklnd / 208 / 51 / 169 / 5-5 / 53
Buff / 210 / 331 / 226 / 4-3 / 327
WMU / 234 / 13 / 139 / 4-6 / 14
Dayton / 246 / 211 / 126 / 0-10 / 206
Miami / 254 / 299 / 166 / 4-8 / 296
Canis / 255 / 306 / 229 / 5-6 / 291
Ohio / 282 / 243 / 183 / 2-8 / 239
CMU / 299 / 159 / 139 / 1-9 / 152
LoyMd / 318 / 339 / 259 / 5-6 / 337
WriSt / 332 / 35 / 122 / 0-11 / 19

The BBall gods were not kind to UT in a lot of ways, but primarily because of the huge drop offs in Missouri St and Dayton this year. If those two teams had not lost their coaches and were at NETs similar to the end of last year (43 & 44) I think UT's NET would be better than 40, even if they had only won 1 of those 2 games. Of course, playing WSU and Loyola really hurt too. Canisius NET is helping a bit this year, as they are up about 80 spots from last season. Penn State's NET is also way up this year, although that may fall during the B10 season unless they can win more games than they did last year.

In the MAC, you can see BG's SOS is low, so we really don't know how good they are yet, but their D looks better this year, and when they shoot the three well, they can compete with most everyone. The best SOS's are WMU, Kent and UT. WMU has gotten blasted in all their tough games though, so not sure what to expect from them on January 4. Kent still a bit of a mystery, but may be very good, but that's what I thought last year. Ball State still has the potential to be really scary, but they also have a bad loss already to Tennessee Tech. Akron I think is over-ranked due to their weak schedule. EMU too. CMU played a tough schedule too and could win some games this year, if their freshmen can stay up to the task. NIU the big disappointment, with the really bad loss to SIUE and a squeaker by also-bad Detroit.

UT has a chance to have another really good MAC season, but there will be tests and it's hard to duplicate a 1 loss season. Need to come to play every night.

[quote='northcoastRocket' pid='18684919' dateline='1671736889']
Non conference season mostly over, save a handful of games next week, the only one of those of consequence for the MAC is OU vs Columbia. So, let's take a look at NET rankings for MAC teams and UT opponents so far.

Team / NET / OpScs / OpNET / D1Rec / NC SOS
Duke / 11 / 70 / 121 / 11-1 / 85
Mich / 19 / 88 / 150 / 11-1 / 63
BGSU / 44 / 241 / 218 / 10-1 / 238
Toledo / 55 / 118 / 168 / 9-2 / 108
PennSt / 58 / 128 / 127 / 9-4 / 234
BallSt / 89 / 222 / 157 / 8-3 / 216
Kent / 96 / 71 / 131 / 5-3 / 67
Akron / 123 / 325 / 187 / 6-2 / 321
Cinci / 128 / 269 / 190 / 7-6 / 266
MizSt / 132 / 96 / 122 / 5-4 / 86
UTArl / 140 / 44 / 133 / 5-6 / 47
NIU / 152 / 228 / 224 / 8-3 / 221
EMU / 184 / 347 / 228 / 7-3 / 348
Oaklnd / 208 / 51 / 169 / 5-5 / 53
Buff / 210 / 331 / 226 / 4-3 / 327
WMU / 234 / 13 / 139 / 4-6 / 14
Dayton / 246 / 211 / 126 / 0-10 / 206
Miami / 254 / 299 / 166 / 4-8 / 296
Canis / 255 / 306 / 229 / 5-6 / 291
Ohio / 282 / 243 / 183 / 2-8 / 239
CMU / 299 / 159 / 139 / 1-9 / 152
LoyMd / 318 / 339 / 259 / 5-6 / 337
WriSt / 332 / 35 / 122 / 0-11 / 19

The BBall gods were not kind to UT in a lot of ways, but primarily because of the huge drop offs in Missouri St and Dayton this year. If those two teams had not lost their coaches and were at NETs similar to the end of last year (43 & 44) I think UT's NET would be better than 40, even if they had only won 1 of those 2 games. Of course, playing WSU and Loyola really hurt too. Canisius NET is helping a bit this year, as they are up about 80 spots from last season. Penn State's NET is also way up this year, although that may fall during the B10 season unless they can win more games than they did last year.

In the MAC, you can see BG's SOS is low, so we really don't know how good they are yet, but their D looks better this year, and when they shoot the three well, they can compete with most everyone. The best SOS's are WMU, Kent and UT. WMU has gotten blasted in all their tough games though, so not sure what to expect from them on January 4. Kent still a bit of a mystery, but may be very good, but that's what I thought last year. Ball State still has the potential to be really scary, but they also have a bad loss already to Tennessee Tech. Akron I think is over-ranked due to their weak schedule. EMU too. CMU played a tough schedule too and could win some games this year, if their freshmen can stay up to the task. NIU the big disappointment, with the really bad loss to SIUE and a squeaker by also-bad Detroit.

UT has a chance to have another really good MAC season, but there will be tests and it's hard to duplicate a 1 loss season. Need to come to play every night.
[/quote

IMO BGSU is the most improved team in the league. Getting Fleming back is big but Dziekan (6-2) is much improved and gives them an effective backup in the middle. They also got a good transfer in Day (6-1) from Loyola who is averaging 9 points/game as a starter. Something must be going right when Kadie Hempfling, two-time 3rd team MaC player can't get meaningful minutes. She is down to around 9th on the rotation. So, for me, BGSU looks like the major competition to the rockets this year.

Columbia 81 Ohio 59
- This was waaay closer than I expected, as it was a 5 point game early in Q4. Columbia is 10-2, #2 in the mid-major poll, and getting top 25 votes. And Ohio was down 1 starter (Pope who was reportedly out injured) and lost another (Dennis) during the 1st half when she took an inadvertent elbow to the mouth and was rushed off to the locker room as they cleaned blood off the court. (She was on the bench in the 2nd half holding an ice bag on her chin.) Despite all that, Columbia had a hard time putting the 2-8 Bobcats away, until Q4 when they finally seemed to get in sync and started burying threes. Rebounds 51-26 in favor of the Lions.

(12-28-2022 03:10 PM)northcoastRocket Wrote:  Columbia 81 Ohio 59
- This was waaay closer than I expected, as it was a 5 point game early in Q4. Columbia is 10-2, #2 in the mid-major poll, and getting top 25 votes. And Ohio was down 1 starter (Pope who was reportedly out injured) and lost another (Dennis) during the 1st half when she took an inadvertent elbow to the mouth and was rushed off to the locker room as they cleaned blood off the court. (She was on the bench in the 2nd half holding an ice bag on her chin.) Despite all that, Columbia had a hard time putting the 2-8 Bobcats away, until Q4 when they finally seemed to get in sync and started burying threes. Rebounds 51-26 in favor of the Lions.

Interesting that Columbia is a mid major WBB power. They are generally terrible in sports across the board.

(12-28-2022 06:59 PM)pono Wrote:  

(12-28-2022 03:10 PM)northcoastRocket Wrote:  Columbia 81 Ohio 59
- This was waaay closer than I expected, as it was a 5 point game early in Q4. Columbia is 10-2, #2 in the mid-major poll, and getting top 25 votes. And Ohio was down 1 starter (Pope who was reportedly out injured) and lost another (Dennis) during the 1st half when she took an inadvertent elbow to the mouth and was rushed off to the locker room as they cleaned blood off the court. (She was on the bench in the 2nd half holding an ice bag on her chin.) Despite all that, Columbia had a hard time putting the 2-8 Bobcats away, until Q4 when they finally seemed to get in sync and started burying threes. Rebounds 51-26 in favor of the Lions.

Interesting that Columbia is a mid major WBB power. They are generally terrible in sports across the board.

Only since the current coach, who was a long-time assistant at Princeton, and it took her about 4 seasons to get them to start winning.

EMU 76 DII Hillsdale 61
- Looks like a fairly big win, but the game was tied with a minute left in Q3. Then, inexplicably, Hillsdale got a T for inserting a player who was not listed on the scorecard. For whatever reason, that changed the whole game and EMU scored the next 14 points. For more context, Hillsdale lost earlier this year to Ohio Dominican, another DII team that lost by 30 to Wright St for WSU's only win this season.

Michigan 76 Nebraska 59
- UM keeps winning. Game was on B10 Network, and Nebraska couldn't hit a shot - three, jumper, uncontested layup, it didn't matter - missed them with equal measure. And Nebraska has 2 wins over top 20 teams this year.

NKU 73 Wright St 50
- WSU 0-12 now against DI teams.

Watching Duke play #6 NC State on ACC Network, and the commentator just said, basically, that Toledo was the only good win Duke has in the OOC schedule. Interesting. They also beat Oregon St, FGCU, so interesting that they know about Toledo.

Anyway, game is 13-10 NCSt after 1, as they hit a half-court heave at the buzzer. Duke has missed like 6-8 bunnies or wide-open jumpers, or they would probably be up double digits, and the ACC refs are calling all kinds of fouls on Duke, 7 fouls to 2 on NCSt

(12-29-2022 08:23 PM)northcoastRocket Wrote:  Watching Duke play #6 NC State on ACC Network, and the commentator just said, basically, that Toledo was the only good win Duke has in the OOC schedule. Interesting. They also beat Oregon St, FGCU, so interesting that they know about Toledo.

Anyway, game is 13-10 NCSt after 1, as they hit a half-court heave at the buzzer. Duke has missed like 6-8 bunnies or wide-open jumpers, or they would probably be up double digits, and the ACC refs are calling all kinds of fouls on Duke, 7 fouls to 2 on NCSt

Duke wins 72-58 at #6 North Carolina State.

Buffalo 58 St Bonny 49
- The Bonnies were 3-11 and had already lost to BG and Kent by slightly bigger margins, and to Canisius by 38. Rebounding the big difference in the stats, 42-21 UB, despite UB ranking 286th in the nation in rebounding this year.

Akron 85 Coppin St 76 OT
- Akron needed OT to beat 3-10 Coppin St whose best win so far this year is over St Francis PA (ranked 344th out of 361 teams.) This Akron team reminds me a bit of some of Kest's Akron teams that were just run-and-gun tossing up threes at any whim, although this team puts some effort in on D. They're 7-2 now, but their SOS is in the bottom 10% of all DI teams, so will have to see how they'll stack up in MAC play.

Duke 72 #6 NC St 58
- Announcers kept talking about how people didn't think Duke was for real because of their "weak" OOC schedule - aside from the "good win" at Toledo. NC St was without their starting PG, but still. Duke handled them pretty easily, on the road, despite turning the ball over unforced at numerous critical points, and missing so many easy shots. But they shot 64% from three, and their D held the Wolfpack to their lowest point total of the season.
- Also interesting that UNC, last week's #6 that had lost to Michigan, lost again to FSU today 78-71, which takes a bit of a shine off the UM win. Also #7 VaTech lost to Clemson, so the ACC is already turned all upside down.

Missouri St 71 Indiana St 62
- Recall that ISU beat CMU, but lost to WMU and Ohio by 10 & 12 respectively and of course, UT beat MSU by 28. MSU a surprising 6-4 right now, but based on comparisons they would seem to slot in as a bottom-half MAC team this year so far.

Green Bay 64 Oakland 42
- Oakland playing more like I expected before the season started. Makes you wonder about those three MAC teams that they beat.

Manhattan 73 Canisius 68
- Canisius was up by 10 at the half, and still led after three. Rebounding the difference - how many games does that prove to be true.

Cal Baptist 67 UT Arlington 61
- CBU has had some good teams in recent years but came into this game at 4-7. UTA not helping the UT SOS at this rate.

Dayton 94 DII Cedarville 58
- Well Dayton found a team they can beat. Too bad it doesn't count for rankings since it's a non-DI win.

DEC 30th NET:
7 Duke
16 Michigan
46 BG
54 UT
57 PSU
90 Ball State
95 Kent
126 Cincy
132 Missouri St
134 Akron
142 UT Arlington
150 NIU

BG 92 DII Findlay 51
- Unsurprising score. Fleming did not play - don't know if that was just to rest her or there is some issue.

Ball St 119 Chicago St 53
- As I said when WMU played them, Chicago St is probably the worst team in DI for going on 6-8 years, and to make things worse, they only had 7 players dressed for this game. Ball St shot lights out, making 17 threes and shooting 65% overall. On the other hand, they still had some starters playing in Q4 when they were already up 40 at the half.

Penn St 90 Rutgers 72
- PSU gets their 1st B10 win, over a Rutgers team whose best win so far is over Hampton.

Wichita St 61 Cinci 49
- Wichita was 10-3 coming in and near the top 100 somehow, despite only playing 2 teams ranked better than 175 and having a bad loss to #283 Omaha. Cinci went about 10 minutes straight without scoring in the middle of the game and shot 30% overall. UT should have been able to beat Cinci by 30 points, based on their play since the Rockets' game.

Loyola MD 61 Colgate 54
- LMD gets to .500 on the year. This is their best win of the season, even though Colgate was ranked #229.

Kent 72 Coppin St 69 OT
- Well, just like Akron, Kent needs OT to beat, now 3-13 Coppin St. Coppin St was up 1 with about a minute left in OT and missed 2 FTs. Kent came down and hit a three, and that took care of things. For the game, Kent shot better from 3 than from 2.

Miami 80 DII Tiffin 31
- Another DII blowout. Miami only played 9 players, so perhaps they are having injury issues, but when Cluse and Wolf both play 33+ minutes in a 50 point blowout, that's not a good look, IMO.

#3 OSU 66 #14 Michigan 57
- Both teams shot awfully. UM missed 11 FTs and had 27 turnovers, and still it was a 2 point game midway thru Q4. Unfortunate UM couldn't pull off another big win.

Missouri St 73 Evansville 61
- Evansville had blown out Miami earlier in the season. MSU is 2-0 in MVC play.

Milwaukee 65 Oakland 49
- Oakland hasn't broken 50 in 3 straight games after scoring 82 against Miami.

UT Arlington 92 Tarleton 68
- UTA handily beats a team that took Ball St to OT in Puerto Rico.

CMU 80 Chicago St 62
- Chicago St is the team that Ball St beat by 66, and was playing on a 2 day turnaround, with travel, and with only 7 available players. So, CMU gets a win, but not something to hang a resume on.

Duke 63 Louisville 56
- Duke keeps on winning, is now 12-1

Dayton 70 George Mason 66
- Dayton gets their 1st DI win of the season. Dayton recently got back one of their injured players in Arianna Smith, who had been recovering from a knee injury. Mason should have won easily, but shot 19-37 from the line, leaving 18 points on the floor.

Siena 72 Canisius 62
- Siena is coached by former long-time Dayton HC, Jim Jabir, who was recently placed under investigation by the school due to accusations of him using abusive and racist language with the team. Team being coached by one of their assistants in the mean time. Siena beat Oakland earlier this year.

IUPUI 85 Wright St 69
- WSU is 0-13


And so ends the MAC non-conference season. Most all, if not all, other conferences are already at least a week into conference play. Don't know why the MAC delays the start of the season more than the other conferences.

Here are the NET standings after the MAC OOC season:

Team / NET / OpScs / OpNET / D1Rec / NC SOS
Duke / 8 / 25 / 108 / 13-1 / 84
Mich / 16 / 24 / 133 / 12-2 / 57
BGSU / 48 / 235 / 223 / 10-1 / 233
Toledo / 52 / 100 / 165 / 9-2 / 96
PennSt / 60 / 154 / 133 / 10-4 / 228
BallSt / 81 / 224 / 171 / 9-3 / 223
KentSt / 108 / 80 / 145 / 6-3 / 78
MizSt / 123 / 151 / 147 / 7-4 / 98
UTArl / 131 / 60 / 139 / 6-7 / 37
Cinci / 132 / 255 / 182 / 7-7 / 260
Akron / 133 / 332 / 199 / 7-2 / 329
NIU / 151 / 210 / 223 / 8-3 / 217
EMU / 191 / 351 / 230 / 7-3 / 349
Buff / 211 / 339 / 239 / 5-3 / 334
Dayton / 219 / 186 / 131 / 1-10 / 165
WMU / 234 / 14 / 136 / 4-6 / 13
Oaklnd / 235 / 63 / 161 / 5-7 / 48
Miami / 254 / 309 / 174 / 4-8 / 307
Canis / 263 / 321 / 236 / 5-8 / 294
Ohio / 275 / 134 / 168 / 2-9 / 126
LoyMd / 295 / 341 / 252 / 6-6 / 337
CMU / 304 / 196 / 160 / 2-9 / 207
WriSt / 334 / 54 / 127 / 0-13 / 18

Toledo gained some on BG due, I presume, some wins by Duke and others this past week. Kent dropped out of the top 100 after their OT win over Coppin St, but they still have the 2nd best SOS after WMU. UT's is third of the MAC schools. The only other MAC school with a decent SOS is Ohio. Akron, EMU, Buffalo are all > 300, which likely contributed to their winning records.

Bg hasn't played anyone worth a damn...How are they so high???

(01-02-2023 01:04 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Bg hasn't played anyone worth a damn...How are they so high???

A lot of blowout wins. The NET rewards running up the score.

(01-02-2023 03:23 PM)Lester Wrote:  

(01-02-2023 01:04 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Bg hasn't played anyone worth a damn...How are they so high???

A lot of blowout wins. The NET rewards running up the score.

Yeah. The NCAA won't actually release the NET algorithm, and they say that they cap wins at 10 points for the W/L part of the formula, but the other part is points per possession differential, which obviously is much better in a 40 point win than a 10 point win.

Michigan 82 Penn St 72
- From the box score, looks like it was a tie game with about 7 minutes left. Both teams shot well from three, but UM dominated the boards and got to the line 19 more times.