Delaware Online/TNJ: See how Delaware football may look to move up to Football Bowl Subdivision

Kevin Tresolini's piece this morning linked above

Paywalled, unfortunately.

I went over to GoHens.net to check in on the mood of the fans a couple days ago. You might think JMU's FBS success this season would spur some discussion among UD fans, but I didn't see as much "let's go FBS" sentiment as I expected to find. I would have thought they would all be dying to make the jump.

The problem is geography. They are way north of the center of CUSA and the Sun Belt, and way east of the center of the Mid-American. I do not think the American (the best outside the Power 5) would accept a team from FCS without a step in between. It is possible to be an Independent in Football, and five of the seven Independents are within bus distance of Delaware. Notre Dame is 10:25 away according to Google Maps, and Connecticut, Massachusetts, Army, and Liberty are closer. The downside of being an Independent is that there are not bowl guarantees except for Notre Dame, which has a special status. Moving to a conference that is not a geographic fit means more expensive travel for all sports, and playing teams that your fans wouldn't have heard of or know where they are unless you join their conference.

If Delaware is committed to FBS, I think independence is probably the best route. Most bowl games do not really move the needle for moving up from FCS to FBS, it's more about peers and programs, and that's all built into the regular season. The difference for JMU has been that their fans are actually invested in the regular season this year, playing teams like App State, GA Southern, Marshall, and Old Dominion. They can't even play in a bowl this year, but in coming years I expect they won't care a ton about the bowl they play unless it's a NY6 or otherwise high-profile bowl.

Delaware doesn't have a built-in division with most of their peers the way that JMU had, but with independent scheduling you could get a schedule with Temple, Army, UConn, UMass, JMU, a few nearby P5's, and still keep the Villanova game. That's a pretty good slate for them.

Maybe the MAC expands from 12 to 16 by adding four new teams on eastern seaboard, then sets up East/West Divisions, eight teams in each. Maybe a couple CAA members join UD on the shift. It would have to be an all sports move though.

I don't think would ever happen, but I'd like to see an FBS version of the CAA.

UMass
UConn
Army
Buffalo
Albany
Stony Brook

Temple
UDel
Navy
JMU
William & Mary
ODU

(10-20-2022 10:10 AM)jcohen42 Wrote:  If Delaware is committed to FBS, I think independence is probably the best route. Most bowl games do not really move the needle for moving up from FCS to FBS, it's more about peers and programs, and that's all built into the regular season. The difference for JMU has been that their fans are actually invested in the regular season this year, playing teams like App State, GA Southern, Marshall, and Old Dominion. They can't even play in a bowl this year, but in coming years I expect they won't care a ton about the bowl they play unless it's a NY6 or otherwise high-profile bowl.

Delaware doesn't have a built-in division with most of their peers the way that JMU had, but with independent scheduling you could get a schedule with Temple, Army, UConn, UMass, JMU, a few nearby P5's, and still keep the Villanova game. That's a pretty good slate for them.

I agree that this is probably the best option. Can stay in the CAA for all other sports that way.

Probably best they talk to the AD at Montana.
Or better yet, UMass.

(10-13-2022 08:42 AM)JonP Wrote:  I went over to GoHens.net to check in on the mood of the fans a couple days ago. You might think JMU's FBS success this season would spur some discussion among UD fans, but I didn't see as much "let's go FBS" sentiment as I expected to find. I would have thought they would all be dying to make the jump.

I think by now there's a healthy appetite for it among a plurality of fans, at a minimum. Not all supporters of the concept of FBS on GoHens have a clear idea of obstacles/what it takes but do know its appeal in this "landscape." And they see that UD has a G5 degree of investment in athletics. The institutional willingness or lack thereof to pry itself from positive academic association with W&M and with the Richmond/Nova duo is another matter.

Here is Delaware head football coach Ryan Carty during today's NSD23 media availability when asked by Tresolini about the notion of recruits inquiring about FBS speculation:

"That's a good question. I honestly, it doesn't come up a ton. We do, obviously, lean heavy into the fact that we have the best facilities in the FCS. And that does kind of speak for itself. And the fact that we are obviously a forward-thinking administration and a forward-thinking university as far as who we want to become. And whether that's, you know, the best at this level or being capable of moving up if we had to, I'm sure those are all things that can be evidenced by the support and resources that we put into the program. And so, I think aspirationally, we wanna be the best football program that we can be at whatever level that is. Whatever conference they put us in, we're gonna go out there and fight. I think that's kind of who we wanna be as teammates, as coaches. And so, I think as long as we're selling the fact that, you know, we're going to compete for championships at whatever conference they tell us we're in, I think that's all that we really need to sell. Is the fact that we're going to put people in position to have the resources and support that they need, whatever decision that gets made over the course of who-knows-how-long, we're gonna make it with the student-athletes having the best experience in mind. ... It honestly wasn't a question that came up much. Maybe because there's a lot of evidence around here that we're going to put people in a position to be successful. I think that trust has to go kind of along the same lines of, 'If that [move up] happens to come in the future at some point, then we'll be in the right position.'"

(10-24-2022 02:07 PM)NJcollegehoopsGUY Wrote:  I don't think would ever happen, but I'd like to see an FBS version of the CAA.

UMass
UConn
Army
Buffalo
Albany
Stony Brook

Temple
UDel
Navy
JMU
William & Mary
ODU

I think if you replace JMU with Villanova - and possibly Towson for ODU - it could be more likely. In that scenario, 6 of the members in this proposed league are already in the CAA.

Why would teams leave the American Athletic to be with teams new to FBS?

(02-09-2023 01:09 PM)EvanJ Wrote:  Why would teams leave the American Athletic to be with teams new to FBS?

Well first, it’s hypothetical and I don’t see it happening today - even though it’s a tight, rational league for football.

You could also ask why would Navy leave the CAA to join the Patriot League for all sports years ago when the CAA was and still is a considerably better league for men’s basketball? I think I know the answer - they wanted a home with solid opportunities and heightened their ability to compete and win. Neither service academy will tolerate being consistent losers.

A lot depends on what happens to P5. If Navy and Army (same really for UMass, Temple, etc) were shifted out of the big boy club, their sights will realign. A coastal G5 option would not be improbable.

(02-10-2023 08:55 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(02-09-2023 01:09 PM)EvanJ Wrote:  Why would teams leave the American Athletic to be with teams new to FBS?

Well first, it’s hypothetical and I don’t see it happening today - even though it’s a tight, rational league for football.

You could also ask why would Navy leave the CAA to join the Patriot League for all sports years ago when the CAA was and still is a considerably better league for men’s basketball? I think I know the answer - they wanted a home with solid opportunities and heightened their ability to compete and win. Neither service academy will tolerate being consistent losers.

A lot depends on what happens to P5. If Navy and Army (same really for UMass, Temple, etc) were shifted out of the big boy club, their sights will realign. A coastal G5 option would not be improbable.

An East Coast G5 has been discussed for decades. Indeed, the CAA was even trying to organize an FBS league back in the days before VCU left.

It has never gotten off the ground for various reasons. With JMU leaving for the SBC, I don't see any catalyst behind it now.

(02-10-2023 09:16 AM)JMU2004 Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 08:55 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(02-09-2023 01:09 PM)EvanJ Wrote:  Why would teams leave the American Athletic to be with teams new to FBS?

Well first, it’s hypothetical and I don’t see it happening today - even though it’s a tight, rational league for football.

You could also ask why would Navy leave the CAA to join the Patriot League for all sports years ago when the CAA was and still is a considerably better league for men’s basketball? I think I know the answer - they wanted a home with solid opportunities and heightened their ability to compete and win. Neither service academy will tolerate being consistent losers.

A lot depends on what happens to P5. If Navy and Army (same really for UMass, Temple, etc) were shifted out of the big boy club, their sights will realign. A coastal G5 option would not be improbable.

An East Coast G5 has been discussed for decades. Indeed, the CAA was even trying to organize an FBS league back in the days before VCU left.

It has never gotten off the ground for various reasons. With JMU leaving for the SBC, I don't see any catalyst behind it now.

No offense but I don’t think JMU is in any way a lynchpin to a potential coastal G5 league - and the need for one - in the CAA footprint. Even if one were come to creation, I still think JMU would be a better fit in the Sunbelt.

The catalyst are the schools lost outside P5 because of geography and that’s basically the schools mentioned. All it would take would be a solid core of CAA schools who could be faced with the option of a new alignment where non P5 gets realigned. In that case, I would see the CAA, Big Sky and MV moving into that mid tier.

(10-24-2022 02:09 PM)NJcollegehoopsGUY Wrote:  

(10-20-2022 10:10 AM)jcohen42 Wrote:  If Delaware is committed to FBS, I think independence is probably the best route. Most bowl games do not really move the needle for moving up from FCS to FBS, it's more about peers and programs, and that's all built into the regular season. The difference for JMU has been that their fans are actually invested in the regular season this year, playing teams like App State, GA Southern, Marshall, and Old Dominion. They can't even play in a bowl this year, but in coming years I expect they won't care a ton about the bowl they play unless it's a NY6 or otherwise high-profile bowl.

Delaware doesn't have a built-in division with most of their peers the way that JMU had, but with independent scheduling you could get a schedule with Temple, Army, UConn, UMass, JMU, a few nearby P5's, and still keep the Villanova game. That's a pretty good slate for them.

I agree that this is probably the best option. Can stay in the CAA for all other sports that way.

Football Indy is no longer desirable in FBS unless your name is Notre Dame. Would not be surprised to see UMass/UConn try again to join an existing conference. Forming a new FBS conference is also unlikely without getting CFP access. The imaginary conference tossed out here is a pipe dream. Navy/temple aren’t leaving AAC (massive buyout) for anything short of a P5 invite. JMU/ODU also aren’t leaving SBC for this.

My guess is Delaware may angle for a MAC invite.

(02-10-2023 12:13 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(10-24-2022 02:09 PM)NJcollegehoopsGUY Wrote:  

(10-20-2022 10:10 AM)jcohen42 Wrote:  If Delaware is committed to FBS, I think independence is probably the best route. Most bowl games do not really move the needle for moving up from FCS to FBS, it's more about peers and programs, and that's all built into the regular season. The difference for JMU has been that their fans are actually invested in the regular season this year, playing teams like App State, GA Southern, Marshall, and Old Dominion. They can't even play in a bowl this year, but in coming years I expect they won't care a ton about the bowl they play unless it's a NY6 or otherwise high-profile bowl.

Delaware doesn't have a built-in division with most of their peers the way that JMU had, but with independent scheduling you could get a schedule with Temple, Army, UConn, UMass, JMU, a few nearby P5's, and still keep the Villanova game. That's a pretty good slate for them.

I agree that this is probably the best option. Can stay in the CAA for all other sports that way.

Football Indy is no longer desirable in FBS unless your name is Notre Dame. Would not be surprised to see UMass/UConn try again to join an existing conference. Forming a new FBS conference is also unlikely without getting CFP access. The imaginary conference tossed out here is a pipe dream. Navy/temple aren’t leaving AAC (massive buyout) for anything short of a P5 invite. JMU/ODU also aren’t leaving SBC for this.

My guess is Delaware may angle for a MAC invite.

I think it’s more than a pipe dream the way things are moving. It would depend on how the AAC shakes out but for football, given the departures and additions, it’s not the AAC that Navy and Temple first joined. Next year the league welcomes Charlotte, Florida Atlantic and a few other less notable names. The AAC has a couple more that could move to P5 (SDSU, SMU) - if that happens, I don’t see Navy or Temple all that committed vs an option with proposed group (inc Army).

And no offense again but I’m not even sure the interest would be all that high - or need to be - to include JMU and ODU. The league as perceived wouldn’t go south of W&M.

Also, the MAC would be a dead end for UD and I think they know it. They stand a better chance of getting a couple partners (like W&M and Villanova) to create something.

(02-10-2023 01:25 PM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 12:13 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(10-24-2022 02:09 PM)NJcollegehoopsGUY Wrote:  

(10-20-2022 10:10 AM)jcohen42 Wrote:  If Delaware is committed to FBS, I think independence is probably the best route. Most bowl games do not really move the needle for moving up from FCS to FBS, it's more about peers and programs, and that's all built into the regular season. The difference for JMU has been that their fans are actually invested in the regular season this year, playing teams like App State, GA Southern, Marshall, and Old Dominion. They can't even play in a bowl this year, but in coming years I expect they won't care a ton about the bowl they play unless it's a NY6 or otherwise high-profile bowl.

Delaware doesn't have a built-in division with most of their peers the way that JMU had, but with independent scheduling you could get a schedule with Temple, Army, UConn, UMass, JMU, a few nearby P5's, and still keep the Villanova game. That's a pretty good slate for them.

I agree that this is probably the best option. Can stay in the CAA for all other sports that way.

Football Indy is no longer desirable in FBS unless your name is Notre Dame. Would not be surprised to see UMass/UConn try again to join an existing conference. Forming a new FBS conference is also unlikely without getting CFP access. The imaginary conference tossed out here is a pipe dream. Navy/temple aren’t leaving AAC (massive buyout) for anything short of a P5 invite. JMU/ODU also aren’t leaving SBC for this.

My guess is Delaware may angle for a MAC invite.

I think it’s more than a pipe dream the way things are moving. It would depend on how the AAC shakes out but for football, given the departures and additions, it’s not the AAC that Navy and Temple first joined. Next year the league welcomes Charlotte, Florida Atlantic and a few other less notable names. The AAC has a couple more that could move to P5 (SDSU, SMU) - if that happens, I don’t see Navy or Temple all that committed vs an option with proposed group (inc Army).

And no offense again but I’m not even sure the interest would be all that high - or need to be - to include JMU and ODU. The league as perceived wouldn’t go south of W&M.

Also, the MAC would be a dead end for UD and I think they know it. They stand a better chance of getting a couple partners (like W&M and Villanova) to create something.

Any exit for an AAC team (especially Navy/Temple) to another G5 FBS conference is simply not viable. They would be walking away from $7M/year payout plus owe the conference a massive exit fee/buyout. That only works if they are joining a P5 league.

It would take a small miracle to convince UMass, UConn, Army, and Buffalo to join this new conference and obtain CFP access. And as the rules stand today, you need 8 existing FBS teams with all sports membership to get it off the ground.

(02-10-2023 12:13 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  Would not be surprised to see UMass/UConn try again to join an existing conference.

UConn had a tradeoff between Football and Men's Basketball. When the Big East broke up and the AAC was created, they ended up in the AAC, which meant less money, much more travel, and worse athletes willing to play for them. They were desperate to get better at Men's Basketball by rejoining the Big East (which previously had only private schools, and Butler is the only nonreligious one). The AAC should not let them get the best of both worlds by playing in the AAC only for Football. UConn is the only Big East school with FBS Football. The Big East schools with FCS Football are Villanova (CAA), Georgetown (Patriot), and Butler (Pioneer, which is for teams around the country that do not give Football scholarships).

(02-10-2023 08:50 PM)EvanJ Wrote:  

(02-10-2023 12:13 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  Would not be surprised to see UMass/UConn try again to join an existing conference.

UConn had a tradeoff between Football and Men's Basketball. When the Big East broke up and the AAC was created, they ended up in the AAC, which meant less money, much more travel, and worse athletes willing to play for them. They were desperate to get better at Men's Basketball by rejoining the Big East (which previously had only private schools, and Butler is the only nonreligious one). The AAC should not let them get the best of both worlds by playing in the AAC only for Football. UConn is the only Big East school with FBS Football. The Big East schools with FCS Football are Villanova (CAA), Georgetown (Patriot), and Butler (Pioneer, which is for teams around the country that do not give Football scholarships).

UMass was in a similar tradeoff situation with the A10 and MAC. They had the option to go all sports in MAC, but their football was kicked out of MAC because they wanted to keep basketball and other sports in the A10.

There was talk of UMass/UConn becoming football only members of CUSA. The rumor I saw was UConn wanted no part of that, and temporarily tanked that option. I still think they may both end up somewhere, Indy is a tough road, and with the CFP it is much more desirable to be in a conference now.

Alright so my thoughts on this have changed in recent weeks as the college football landscape has started shifting again (SMU and SDSU to the Pac-12 AND the WAC/ASUN FBS jump).

Some points I want to make:

1) If the WAC/ASUN FBS conference is allowed, all bets are off in regards to what schools can and cannot do in regards to affiliations.

Could open the door for a Northeast based FBS conference to be made easier. What could stop UMass, UConn, Temple, UDel, Army, Navy, etc. from making a similar arrangement?

2) The future dominos of Pac-12, AAC, Big 12, and MWC expansion.

What would CAAF schools like UDel do if the other top FCS schools from the MVFC and Big Sky make the jump? I am not sure what CAAF schools would do, BUT I think future G5 realignment might include FCS call-ups (the remaining FCS "Blue-Bloods") and that make staying at the FCS level very unattractive.

Also, if SMU (and eventually Memphis and USF) find themselves leaving the AAC in the next few seasons, the AAC value plummets. To me, Temple (and to a larger extend ECU) are only in the remaining AAC because of the $$$. What happens when the $7/yr/school figure is no longer? That deal was signed when: UConn, Cinci, Houston, UCF, SMU, USF, and Memphis were all members. No shot it is worth an 1/8th of that when the AAC dissolves into the C-USA 3.0. With this being said, joining the A-10 for Temple in hoops and going Indy in football seems best.

3) Not sure if there is a good option for CAAF schools in the future. If 1 and 2 occur, CAAF schools are in a tough spot. Either stay in the FCS and rack up National Championships against the very hollowed out remaining FCS conferences, or jump up to a Bowl-Bound FBS level with like minded schools. Tough choice, but if I am UDel, I make the jump.

4) Regardless of what happens with the ASUN/WAC thing, if the American really gets weakened and Temple and Navy leave, I think a scheduling agreement among independent Northeast schools would be ideal and set the bed rock for something bigger potentially. I know I would be interested in an FBS scheduling alliance of: UMass, UConn, Temple, UDel, Army, Navy. Everyone gets a guaranteed 5 games (only 3 less than what being in the MAC would be), and its potentially some good rivalries. As mentioned before, Temple moves basketball and olympic sports to A-10, UDel stays in CAA, and everyone else stays put too.

Thoughts? Would UDel fans like this more than being in the FCS?