Its tough to complain about a guy who has us on the brink of another MACC game, but for those who were around when AD Bohl made the tough decision to fire Simrell, does it feel like the same thing? Like we've hit our ceiling under the current HC. Granted the grass isn't always greener. WMU had high hopes for Lester and the mob isn't happy up there either.

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(11-09-2022 12:34 PM)falconplucker Wrote:  I think the bottom line for some is they would like to see a legitimately strong and respected program. This year feels like Toledo will win the West, because everyone else in the West stinks. Is there anyone in the West ranked above 100? Toledo beat Ball State last night, because of skill players on offense and the defensive coaching/play. Last night's offensive game plan seemed to be to throw it 30 yards down the field, run it up the middle for 2 yards, and occasionally utilize the tight end. That was about it. A solid offense and offensive coaching staff beats Ball State by at least 17. Ball State has a great running back, but that's it. Being happy happy, because Toledo is playing slightly better than the worst teams in the nation, seems empty.

This…

In talking about their RB Steele who is only a soph, other than BSU, he was lightly recruited as ESPN stated as a RB. ESPN stated he was Mr. Indiana Football coming out of HS. I wonder why UT did not take a good at him, or did they ?

(11-09-2022 07:29 PM)RangerRocket Wrote:  

(11-09-2022 12:34 PM)falconplucker Wrote:  I think the bottom line for some is they would like to see a legitimately strong and respected program. This year feels like Toledo will win the West, because everyone else in the West stinks. Is there anyone in the West ranked above 100? Toledo beat Ball State last night, because of skill players on offense and the defensive coaching/play. Last night's offensive game plan seemed to be to throw it 30 yards down the field, run it up the middle for 2 yards, and occasionally utilize the tight end. That was about it. A solid offense and offensive coaching staff beats Ball State by at least 17. Ball State has a great running back, but that's it. Being happy happy, because Toledo is playing slightly better than the worst teams in the nation, seems empty.

This…

So now winning the game isn't good enough! Winning the West Division isn't
good enough! 8-9 win season isn't good enough! MACC game isn't good enough!This isn't anywhere close to the Simeral (sp?) situation. Enough.

(11-01-2022 06:04 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  I'd take a badly coached game over a bye week anytime.

"His record against MAC Teams with a winning conference record over that stretch, including this season, is 3-10. "

Really? Someone show me those numbers are wrong. Only 3 wins over winning MAC teams since 2017? And people are debating he should still keep the job after contract is up?

Give it a rest......"including this year" there are only 3 other teams with winning records and we don't play 2 of them. (maybe another in the champ game) After this year he's getting an extension and likely a raise if he isn't pouched to the big conferences.

(11-09-2022 09:09 PM)magoo Wrote:  

(11-09-2022 07:29 PM)RangerRocket Wrote:  

(11-09-2022 12:34 PM)falconplucker Wrote:  I think the bottom line for some is they would like to see a legitimately strong and respected program. This year feels like Toledo will win the West, because everyone else in the West stinks. Is there anyone in the West ranked above 100? Toledo beat Ball State last night, because of skill players on offense and the defensive coaching/play. Last night's offensive game plan seemed to be to throw it 30 yards down the field, run it up the middle for 2 yards, and occasionally utilize the tight end. That was about it. A solid offense and offensive coaching staff beats Ball State by at least 17. Ball State has a great running back, but that's it. Being happy happy, because Toledo is playing slightly better than the worst teams in the nation, seems empty.

This…

So now winning the game isn't good enough! Winning the West Division isn't
good enough! 8-9 win season isn't good enough! MACC game isn't good enough!This isn't anywhere close to the Simeral (sp?) situation. Enough.

Good point. All the respected competition is in the past and those games were lost. 3-10 against winning MAC teams I think was the stat posted? Shockingly bad. 3-10 by the highest by far paid coach in the poorest performing league.

I think the only thing the MACC will do is get Coach Candle a chance for a small measure of redemption against a decent bowl opponent.

(11-09-2022 09:09 PM)magoo Wrote:  

(11-09-2022 07:29 PM)RangerRocket Wrote:  

(11-09-2022 12:34 PM)falconplucker Wrote:  I think the bottom line for some is they would like to see a legitimately strong and respected program. This year feels like Toledo will win the West, because everyone else in the West stinks. Is there anyone in the West ranked above 100? Toledo beat Ball State last night, because of skill players on offense and the defensive coaching/play. Last night's offensive game plan seemed to be to throw it 30 yards down the field, run it up the middle for 2 yards, and occasionally utilize the tight end. That was about it. A solid offense and offensive coaching staff beats Ball State by at least 17. Ball State has a great running back, but that's it. Being happy happy, because Toledo is playing slightly better than the worst teams in the nation, seems empty.

This…

So now winning the game isn't good enough! Winning the West Division isn't
good enough! 8-9 win season isn't good enough! MACC game isn't good enough!This isn't anywhere close to the Simeral (sp?) situation. Enough.

Some people just expect UT to be Alabama or Georgia every season…

(11-09-2022 09:29 PM)utpotts Wrote:  

(11-09-2022 09:09 PM)magoo Wrote:  

(11-09-2022 07:29 PM)RangerRocket Wrote:  

(11-09-2022 12:34 PM)falconplucker Wrote:  I think the bottom line for some is they would like to see a legitimately strong and respected program. This year feels like Toledo will win the West, because everyone else in the West stinks. Is there anyone in the West ranked above 100? Toledo beat Ball State last night, because of skill players on offense and the defensive coaching/play. Last night's offensive game plan seemed to be to throw it 30 yards down the field, run it up the middle for 2 yards, and occasionally utilize the tight end. That was about it. A solid offense and offensive coaching staff beats Ball State by at least 17. Ball State has a great running back, but that's it. Being happy happy, because Toledo is playing slightly better than the worst teams in the nation, seems empty.

This…

So now winning the game isn't good enough! Winning the West Division isn't
good enough! 8-9 win season isn't good enough! MACC game isn't good enough!This isn't anywhere close to the Simeral (sp?) situation. Enough.

Some people just expect UT to be Alabama or Georgia every season…

Some are happy if UT is .. oops, I was going to list the worst football to complete your metaphor but they're all in the MAC already and Coach Candle is struggling against them, lol.

(11-09-2022 09:09 PM)magoo Wrote:  

(11-09-2022 07:29 PM)RangerRocket Wrote:  

(11-09-2022 12:34 PM)falconplucker Wrote:  I think the bottom line for some is they would like to see a legitimately strong and respected program. This year feels like Toledo will win the West, because everyone else in the West stinks. Is there anyone in the West ranked above 100? Toledo beat Ball State last night, because of skill players on offense and the defensive coaching/play. Last night's offensive game plan seemed to be to throw it 30 yards down the field, run it up the middle for 2 yards, and occasionally utilize the tight end. That was about it. A solid offense and offensive coaching staff beats Ball State by at least 17. Ball State has a great running back, but that's it. Being happy happy, because Toledo is playing slightly better than the worst teams in the nation, seems empty.

This…

So now winning the game isn't good enough! Winning the West Division isn't
good enough! 8-9 win season isn't good enough! MACC game isn't good enough!This isn't anywhere close to the Simeral (sp?) situation. Enough.

I’ve been a student and fan for almost 25 years and in those years we have won a lot of football games. Hence, the fan base has been spoiled. When you consistently average 8-9 wins a season and perform well against P5 opponents, the expectations at some point will be raised.

I believe that is where the fan base is at this point and why a lot of us complain. Winning seasons don’t necessarily shock us anymore. Going to bowl games becomes a requirement. The only thing that hasn’t happened consistently is conference championships but we’ve still had a lot of success.

With Candle, we have expected 6-7 win seasons and bad bowl losses but he recruits well and has very little off the field problems so it’s hard to be too critical. Although why head coaches believe they make great OC’s befuddles me

Many of us desire or perhaps expect the program to reach a new level. A dream season of being ranked in the top 10. A streak of 10-11 win seasons that gets us top 25 exposure. Or maybe a NIU run of 3 MAC titles in 4 years. Something that puts us on a different level of respect.

If u feel Candle is that guy then fine. I don’t. The people I talk to don’t as well. Best case scenario is we win in Detroit and he is lured away. I hope that is the scenario that plays out

Let's see how we finish out. I think we are where we expected to be with just 1 MAC loss - even though that game should have been won. Should also have beat SDSU. But that happens in pretty much every season.

What concerns me is the very tight wins against not so talented teams in EMU and BSU. On the other hand, winning those games shows me a lot more positive things about this team. That tends to improve confidence that the "team" will find a way to win. Just quit with the penalties that puts us in positions where we have to test our ability to come from behind to win.

(11-09-2022 11:22 PM)Rocket_Fanatic Wrote:  

(11-09-2022 09:09 PM)magoo Wrote:  

(11-09-2022 07:29 PM)RangerRocket Wrote:  

(11-09-2022 12:34 PM)falconplucker Wrote:  I think the bottom line for some is they would like to see a legitimately strong and respected program. This year feels like Toledo will win the West, because everyone else in the West stinks. Is there anyone in the West ranked above 100? Toledo beat Ball State last night, because of skill players on offense and the defensive coaching/play. Last night's offensive game plan seemed to be to throw it 30 yards down the field, run it up the middle for 2 yards, and occasionally utilize the tight end. That was about it. A solid offense and offensive coaching staff beats Ball State by at least 17. Ball State has a great running back, but that's it. Being happy happy, because Toledo is playing slightly better than the worst teams in the nation, seems empty.

This…

So now winning the game isn't good enough! Winning the West Division isn't
good enough! 8-9 win season isn't good enough! MACC game isn't good enough!This isn't anywhere close to the Simeral (sp?) situation. Enough.

I’ve been a student and fan for almost 25 years and in those years we have won a lot of football games. Hence, the fan base has been spoiled. When you consistently average 8-9 wins a season and perform well against P5 opponents, the expectations at some point will be raised.

I believe that is where the fan base is at this point and why a lot of us complain. Winning seasons don’t necessarily shock us anymore. Going to bowl games becomes a requirement. The only thing that hasn’t happened consistently is conference championships but we’ve still had a lot of success.

With Candle, we have expected 6-7 win seasons and bad bowl losses but he recruits well and has very little off the field problems so it’s hard to be too critical. Although why head coaches believe they make great OC’s befuddles me

Many of us desire or perhaps expect the program to reach a new level. A dream season of being ranked in the top 10. A streak of 10-11 win seasons that gets us top 25 exposure. Or maybe a NIU run of 3 MAC titles in 4 years. Something that puts us on a different level of respect.

If u feel Candle is that guy then fine. I don’t. The people I talk to don’t as well. Best case scenario is we win in Detroit and he is lured away. I hope that is the scenario that plays out

Being top ten in the country would be nice, but it makes no sense to fire a coach for not reaching that lofty goal - or, for that matter, to fire a coach for failing to dominate the conference. Every team would like to dominate the conference year in and year out, but that generally doesn't happen. If we fire Candle, there's no reason to think that we somehow land a coach who will make your dreams come true.

(11-10-2022 06:23 AM)Lester Wrote:  

(11-09-2022 11:22 PM)Rocket_Fanatic Wrote:  

(11-09-2022 09:09 PM)magoo Wrote:  

(11-09-2022 07:29 PM)RangerRocket Wrote:  

(11-09-2022 12:34 PM)falconplucker Wrote:  I think the bottom line for some is they would like to see a legitimately strong and respected program. This year feels like Toledo will win the West, because everyone else in the West stinks. Is there anyone in the West ranked above 100? Toledo beat Ball State last night, because of skill players on offense and the defensive coaching/play. Last night's offensive game plan seemed to be to throw it 30 yards down the field, run it up the middle for 2 yards, and occasionally utilize the tight end. That was about it. A solid offense and offensive coaching staff beats Ball State by at least 17. Ball State has a great running back, but that's it. Being happy happy, because Toledo is playing slightly better than the worst teams in the nation, seems empty.

This…

So now winning the game isn't good enough! Winning the West Division isn't
good enough! 8-9 win season isn't good enough! MACC game isn't good enough!This isn't anywhere close to the Simeral (sp?) situation. Enough.

I’ve been a student and fan for almost 25 years and in those years we have won a lot of football games. Hence, the fan base has been spoiled. When you consistently average 8-9 wins a season and perform well against P5 opponents, the expectations at some point will be raised.

I believe that is where the fan base is at this point and why a lot of us complain. Winning seasons don’t necessarily shock us anymore. Going to bowl games becomes a requirement. The only thing that hasn’t happened consistently is conference championships but we’ve still had a lot of success.

With Candle, we have expected 6-7 win seasons and bad bowl losses but he recruits well and has very little off the field problems so it’s hard to be too critical. Although why head coaches believe they make great OC’s befuddles me

Many of us desire or perhaps expect the program to reach a new level. A dream season of being ranked in the top 10. A streak of 10-11 win seasons that gets us top 25 exposure. Or maybe a NIU run of 3 MAC titles in 4 years. Something that puts us on a different level of respect.

If u feel Candle is that guy then fine. I don’t. The people I talk to don’t as well. Best case scenario is we win in Detroit and he is lured away. I hope that is the scenario that plays out

Being top ten in the country would be nice, but it makes no sense to fire a coach for not reaching that lofty goal - or, for that matter, to fire a coach for failing to dominate the conference. Every team would like to dominate the conference year in and year out, but that generally doesn't happen. If we fire Candle, there's no reason to think that we somehow land a coach who will make your dreams come true.

and yet winning programs do it all the time. 3-10 against MAC teams with winning records isn't what you expected from the highest paid coach in the conference, is it?

Different programs, different expectations. Using the word "dominate" isn't even in the conversation. He's not even generally going into the last game at risk of winning the division, let alone the conference.

Yes of course he's paid to "dominate" the conference. What has the hackles up isn't the losing, it's the poor performances. It's the disorganization during game. The poor clock management. The massive number of unforced penalties. Everything indicates a good recruiter. Nothing indicates a good HC. The "dis-continue" Candle side has a much better argument than the keep him forever regardless side.

I'm not sure that there is a "keep him forever regardless" side.

(11-10-2022 07:38 AM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(11-10-2022 06:23 AM)Lester Wrote:  

(11-09-2022 11:22 PM)Rocket_Fanatic Wrote:  

(11-09-2022 09:09 PM)magoo Wrote:  

(11-09-2022 07:29 PM)RangerRocket Wrote:  This…

So now winning the game isn't good enough! Winning the West Division isn't
good enough! 8-9 win season isn't good enough! MACC game isn't good enough!This isn't anywhere close to the Simeral (sp?) situation. Enough.

I’ve been a student and fan for almost 25 years and in those years we have won a lot of football games. Hence, the fan base has been spoiled. When you consistently average 8-9 wins a season and perform well against P5 opponents, the expectations at some point will be raised.

I believe that is where the fan base is at this point and why a lot of us complain. Winning seasons don’t necessarily shock us anymore. Going to bowl games becomes a requirement. The only thing that hasn’t happened consistently is conference championships but we’ve still had a lot of success.

With Candle, we have expected 6-7 win seasons and bad bowl losses but he recruits well and has very little off the field problems so it’s hard to be too critical. Although why head coaches believe they make great OC’s befuddles me

Many of us desire or perhaps expect the program to reach a new level. A dream season of being ranked in the top 10. A streak of 10-11 win seasons that gets us top 25 exposure. Or maybe a NIU run of 3 MAC titles in 4 years. Something that puts us on a different level of respect.

If u feel Candle is that guy then fine. I don’t. The people I talk to don’t as well. Best case scenario is we win in Detroit and he is lured away. I hope that is the scenario that plays out

Being top ten in the country would be nice, but it makes no sense to fire a coach for not reaching that lofty goal - or, for that matter, to fire a coach for failing to dominate the conference. Every team would like to dominate the conference year in and year out, but that generally doesn't happen. If we fire Candle, there's no reason to think that we somehow land a coach who will make your dreams come true.

and yet winning programs do it all the time. 3-10 against MAC teams with winning records isn't what you expected from the highest paid coach in the conference, is it?

Different programs, different expectations. Using the word "dominate" isn't even in the conversation. He's not even generally going into the last game at risk of winning the division, let alone the conference.

Yes of course he's paid to "dominate" the conference. What has the hackles up isn't the losing, it's the poor performances. It's the disorganization during game. The poor clock management. The massive number of unforced penalties. Everything indicates a good recruiter. Nothing indicates a good HC. The "dis-continue" Candle side has a much better argument than the keep him forever regardless side.

He is NOT the highest paid coach in the MAC. Look at cmu

(11-10-2022 08:53 AM)magoo Wrote:  

(11-10-2022 07:38 AM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(11-10-2022 06:23 AM)Lester Wrote:  

(11-09-2022 11:22 PM)Rocket_Fanatic Wrote:  

(11-09-2022 09:09 PM)magoo Wrote:  So now winning the game isn't good enough! Winning the West Division isn't
good enough! 8-9 win season isn't good enough! MACC game isn't good enough!This isn't anywhere close to the Simeral (sp?) situation. Enough.

I’ve been a student and fan for almost 25 years and in those years we have won a lot of football games. Hence, the fan base has been spoiled. When you consistently average 8-9 wins a season and perform well against P5 opponents, the expectations at some point will be raised.

I believe that is where the fan base is at this point and why a lot of us complain. Winning seasons don’t necessarily shock us anymore. Going to bowl games becomes a requirement. The only thing that hasn’t happened consistently is conference championships but we’ve still had a lot of success.

With Candle, we have expected 6-7 win seasons and bad bowl losses but he recruits well and has very little off the field problems so it’s hard to be too critical. Although why head coaches believe they make great OC’s befuddles me

Many of us desire or perhaps expect the program to reach a new level. A dream season of being ranked in the top 10. A streak of 10-11 win seasons that gets us top 25 exposure. Or maybe a NIU run of 3 MAC titles in 4 years. Something that puts us on a different level of respect.

If u feel Candle is that guy then fine. I don’t. The people I talk to don’t as well. Best case scenario is we win in Detroit and he is lured away. I hope that is the scenario that plays out

Being top ten in the country would be nice, but it makes no sense to fire a coach for not reaching that lofty goal - or, for that matter, to fire a coach for failing to dominate the conference. Every team would like to dominate the conference year in and year out, but that generally doesn't happen. If we fire Candle, there's no reason to think that we somehow land a coach who will make your dreams come true.

and yet winning programs do it all the time. 3-10 against MAC teams with winning records isn't what you expected from the highest paid coach in the conference, is it?

Different programs, different expectations. Using the word "dominate" isn't even in the conversation. He's not even generally going into the last game at risk of winning the division, let alone the conference.

Yes of course he's paid to "dominate" the conference. What has the hackles up isn't the losing, it's the poor performances. It's the disorganization during game. The poor clock management. The massive number of unforced penalties. Everything indicates a good recruiter. Nothing indicates a good HC. The "dis-continue" Candle side has a much better argument than the keep him forever regardless side.

He is NOT the highest paid coach in the MAC. Look at cmu

Yes he is. I don't know where some of those articles are getting salary numbers, but on base salary+media compensation, Candle makes about $400K more than any of the other coaches in the MAC, including McElwain. There are benefits and performance bonuses on top of that, but those don't add up to anywhere near the amount that some articles imply, and this year Candle will probably get more bonus $ than any other MAC west coach.

I started this thread the very first game of the season and it is interesting to me that the thread still has legs…

(11-10-2022 09:45 AM)RangerRocket Wrote:  I started this thread the very first game of the season and it is interesting to me that the thread still has legs…

You gave us an opportunity to beatch and potts an opportunity to beatch at the beatchers and you're surprised the thread has legs, why?

(11-10-2022 10:08 AM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(11-10-2022 09:45 AM)RangerRocket Wrote:  I started this thread the very first game of the season and it is interesting to me that the thread still has legs…

You gave us an opportunity to beatch and potts an opportunity to beatch at the beatchers and you're surprised the thread has legs, why?

I believe the term is STIR THE POT.

Well done.

I still answer yes even with the fear of the Cross effect.

My guess is Candle's contract extension (which is all but a done deal at this point given making the MACCG) will have an astronomical amount of incentives with a much lower base salary. That's the only way the AD could possibly navigate the fiscal waters while keeping him on at a number he doesn't deserve.

(11-10-2022 01:47 PM)indianasniff Wrote:  

(11-10-2022 10:08 AM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(11-10-2022 09:45 AM)RangerRocket Wrote:  I started this thread the very first game of the season and it is interesting to me that the thread still has legs…

You gave us an opportunity to beatch and potts an opportunity to beatch at the beatchers and you're surprised the thread has legs, why?

I believe the term is STIR THE POT.

Well done.

I still answer yes even with the fear of the Cross effect.

Born to live a long life?