(11-25-2022 08:49 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  

(11-24-2022 11:46 PM)TallTexan Wrote:  

(11-24-2022 12:52 PM)unalions Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 08:41 PM)TallTexan Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 06:29 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  There is NO rumor about this ANYWHERE else. Nothing about a WAC-ASUN merger-- not even a hint.

More proof please.

I haven't watched the interview, but I think they're talking Missouri Valley Football Conference level arrangement. Literally a football only league.

Yes, for now. But FBS doesn’t have football-only conferences. So, there’s also a story between the lines of what he’s saying.

I'll admit FBS is a jump. But logistics wise, it would just merge back into the WAC or ASUN when needed.

So you'd have the WAC conference sponsoring FBS football with 4 ASUN affiliates or vice versa.

FBS conferences require 8 playoff eligible full time members. This model works if the WAC can find two more current FCS teams who want to make the jump to FBS. McNeese comes immediately to mind.

Let’s try and look at the WAC schools objectively with FBS in mind.

Tarleton is ready and willing to go now. Enrollment and academics are shooting upwards.
ACU has an enrollment of a little over 5,000 and seems to be happy where they are currently.
SFA is in a downward spiral with enrollment (7.5% decrease last five years) and has become very stagnant with academics.
Utah Tech is treading upwards with enrollment and academics. Need to upgrade facilities.
SUU seems to be happy where they are currently with fairly even enrollment as I understand them.
UTRGV has football coming in 2025 and needs facility upgrades. Seem to have a plan to accomplish.

Realistically, I think there are only two or three at the most schools who have the potential to move up to FBS. I think the ASUN merger is by far the best option for everyone. If we were to lose a school going on it’s own to FBS, the WAC and ASUN schools will still flourish with the possible new format.

(11-25-2022 09:05 AM)TexanFan Wrote:  

(11-25-2022 08:49 AM)OscarWildeCat Wrote:  

(11-24-2022 11:46 PM)TallTexan Wrote:  

(11-24-2022 12:52 PM)unalions Wrote:  

(11-23-2022 08:41 PM)TallTexan Wrote:  I haven't watched the interview, but I think they're talking Missouri Valley Football Conference level arrangement. Literally a football only league.

Yes, for now. But FBS doesn’t have football-only conferences. So, there’s also a story between the lines of what he’s saying.

I'll admit FBS is a jump. But logistics wise, it would just merge back into the WAC or ASUN when needed.

So you'd have the WAC conference sponsoring FBS football with 4 ASUN affiliates or vice versa.

FBS conferences require 8 playoff eligible full time members. This model works if the WAC can find two more current FCS teams who want to make the jump to FBS. McNeese comes immediately to mind.

Let’s try and look at the WAC schools objectively with FBS in mind.

Tarleton is ready and willing to go now. Enrollment and academics are shooting upwards.
ACU has an enrollment of a little over 5,000 and seems to be happy where they are currently.
SFA is in a downward spiral with enrollment (7.5% decrease last five years) and has become very stagnant with academics.
Utah Tech is treading upwards with enrollment and academics. Need to upgrade facilities.
SUU seems to be happy where they are currently with fairly even enrollment as I understand them.
UTRGV has football coming in 2025 and needs facility upgrades. Seem to have a plan to accomplish.

Realistically, I think there are only two or three at the most schools who have the potential to move up to FBS. I think the ASUN merger is by far the best option for everyone. If we were to lose a school going on it’s own to FBS, the WAC and ASUN schools will still flourish with the possible new format.

ACU has adopted a 5 year strategic plan with objectives that would place us on par with a a typical FBS private institution, including a rather dramatic increase in enrollment from 5,500 to 8,800. This increase is likely to come from targeting select on-campus programs such as engineering or IT for increased enrollment as well as growth in our online offerings in line with today’s needs.

Other objectives are to achieve R2 research status and to increase our endowment from its present 650-700M to a billion dollars.

I believe SFA’s decision to join a ‘big daddy’ system is also part of a plan to increase enrollment and resources that will enable them to consider moving up.

UTRGV has said from the get go they would prefer FBS.

Utah Tech is in a high population growth area. I’d expect their enrollment to increase yearly. I have no idea if they have FBS aspirations.

Southern Utah hasn’t said what their plans are re: FBS.

The merger into a FB only league could happen. The WACSUN (temporary name) would operate similar to the MVFC.

Going FBS as a full league is a whole different ballgame. VERY unlikely.

1st-- The WAC would have to re-qualify as an FBS league with the NCAA-- 8 members willing to go all in on FBS and quite a few NCAA regulations to pass.

2nd-- Unless the CFP Board of Directors -- a private LLC COMPANY approved access to the new playoff and ALSO a MONEY SHARE-- those wanting to move up as a league together would not even try-- since they could not afford to make the move without that yearly money stream guaranteed.

According to Matt Brown the FBS part of this is VERY unlikely.

(11-25-2022 03:31 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  The merger into a FB only league could happen. The WACSUN (temporary name) would operate similar to the MVFC.

Going FBS as a full league is a whole different ballgame. VERY unlikely.

1st-- The WAC would have to re-qualify as an FBS league with the NCAA-- 8 members willing to go all in on FBS and quite a few NCAA regulations to pass.

2nd-- Unless the CFP Board of Directors -- a private LLC COMPANY approved access to the new playoff and ALSO a MONEY SHARE-- those wanting to move up as a league together would not even try-- since they could not afford to make the move without that yearly money stream guaranteed.

According to Matt Brown the FBS part of this is VERY unlikely.

LOL!

(11-24-2022 12:45 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  

(11-24-2022 12:22 AM)Tmac13 Wrote:  As far as getting a small piece of the CFP pie? That isn't absolutely necessary, and even a small FBS media deal dwarfs anything that can be earned in FCS.

FWIW, ADs and conference leaders in the WAC and ASUN have specifically told me that it IS necessary. It's why New Mexico State took the Conference USA invite that they didn't really actually want. That money is going to be a bigger payout than TV, and given how much costs increase at FBS, it is completely impossible to move up without it.

This post brought over from the csnbbs realignment board.

Oh REALLY?! That's BREAKING NEWS if I ever heard it!

His "sources" are ADs and "conference leaders" lol. More like the local Las Cruces newspaper.

Matt Brown = Captain Obvious

(11-25-2022 02:34 PM)lion1983 Wrote:  The way I understand it is, because the WAC was FBS before, the NCAA will allow them back to FBS provided they show continuity.

The way it has been explained to me is, the WAC and ASUN put football schools together in FCS for a few years (also to my understanding, the past two seasons will count). When Tarleton and Utah Tech complete their transitions, the WAC will accept all ASUN football schools as full members. At that point, the non football schools in the WAC will have found homes in other conferences (some going to the ASUN) at that point, a few more schools will(should) join the WAC.

Also to my understanding, it has to be called the WAC the duration of FCS to continue continuity.

Of interest from the ASUN board this afternoon.

(11-25-2022 04:22 PM)unalions Wrote:  

(11-25-2022 02:34 PM)lion1983 Wrote:  The way I understand it is, because the WAC was FBS before, the NCAA will allow them back to FBS provided they show continuity.

The way it has been explained to me is, the WAC and ASUN put football schools together in FCS for a few years (also to my understanding, the past two seasons will count). When Tarleton and Utah Tech complete their transitions, the WAC will accept all ASUN football schools as full members. At that point, the non football schools in the WAC will have found homes in other conferences (some going to the ASUN) at that point, a few more schools will(should) join the WAC.

Also to my understanding, it has to be called the WAC the duration of FCS to continue continuity.

Of interest from the ASUN board this afternoon.

Now THERE is somebody that knows something! The WAC has been talking FBS since it kickstarted football again. It has had 3 years and floors of lawyers at its disposal to figure out how to get it done. The WAC-ASUN FCS scheduling partnership provides the qualified head count for FBS by 2024. It will take some time, but it must be done by 2024 to get those new CFP contract monies that Matt Brown was trying to regurgitate as news. Everything changes in 2024. I repeat: by the end of 2024, you're either in or you're OUT! I've been saying it for 2 years now. Sam and nmsu got restless and took the bird in hand with CUSA, which is the smart move. Tarleton wants to secure its inclusion either with or without the WAC/ASUN. Again, almost impossible to do while still in transition, but its the smart move to try. We're at least making sure we check all the boxes, and I applaud our Prez and AD for doing so.. I for one hope the WAC gets it done and we stay put. All they have to do is get the initial qualified headcount, then the conference can expand/retract as it sees fit.

The WAC itself will not qualify as an FBS conference unless/until it has at least 8 full-time all sports members who have each attained FBS status. SOME requirements of FBS status include full amount of scholarship sponsorship (FB) and scheduling of FBS opponents. Sixteen full sports and other FBS regulations.

(11-25-2022 06:35 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  The WAC itself will not qualify as an FBS conference unless/until it has at least 8 full-time all sports members who have each attained FBS status. SOME requirements of FBS status include full amount of scholarship sponsorship (FB) and scheduling of FBS opponents. Sixteen full sports and other FBS regulations.

Have you ever made a positive contribution to this board?

(11-25-2022 05:01 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  

(11-25-2022 04:22 PM)unalions Wrote:  

(11-25-2022 02:34 PM)lion1983 Wrote:  The way I understand it is, because the WAC was FBS before, the NCAA will allow them back to FBS provided they show continuity.

The way it has been explained to me is, the WAC and ASUN put football schools together in FCS for a few years (also to my understanding, the past two seasons will count). When Tarleton and Utah Tech complete their transitions, the WAC will accept all ASUN football schools as full members. At that point, the non football schools in the WAC will have found homes in other conferences (some going to the ASUN) at that point, a few more schools will(should) join the WAC.

Also to my understanding, it has to be called the WAC the duration of FCS to continue continuity.

Of interest from the ASUN board this afternoon.

Now THERE is somebody that knows something! The WAC has been talking FBS since it kickstarted football again. It has had 3 years and floors of lawyers at its disposal to figure out how to get it done. The WAC-ASUN FCS scheduling partnership provides the qualified head count for FBS by 2024. It will take some time, but it must be done by 2024 to get those new CFP contract monies that Matt Brown was trying to regurgitate as news. Everything changes in 2024. I repeat: by the end of 2024, you're either in or you're OUT! I've been saying it for 2 years now. Sam and nmsu got restless and took the bird in hand with CUSA, which is the smart move. Tarleton wants to secure its inclusion either with or without the WAC/ASUN. Again, almost impossible to do while still in transition, but its the smart move to try. We're at least making sure we check all the boxes, and I applaud our Prez and AD for doing so.. I for one hope the WAC gets it done and we stay put. All they have to do is get the initial qualified headcount, then the conference can expand/retract as it sees fit.

Why is Tarleton going to such great lengths to get themselves into the big leagues (fake attendance, stadium expansion, fake enrollment numbers) when they just turned down a CUSA invite like you alleged? If NMST and SHSU are smart, is Tarleton dumb? Lol!

This is a pipe dream. The same regurgitated BS from two years ago. The WAC will NOT be FBS, especially without their football flagship in SAM HOUSTON. When we left, so did any chance of using that silly clause. But enjoy your one bid hybrid league with North Alabama and Dixie State.

I'm no expert. The following are my educated GUESSES. I'm NOT a "know it all".

Now with those disclaimers out of the way...

What do we know?

The FBS component would be EXTREMELY difficult to complete.

I base this on facts, research, and opinions of people more knowledgeable than me.



The CFP Administration, LLC is a PRIVATE COMPANY and can choose members at its own discretion.[google: CollegeFootballPlayoff.com]

The college football playoff board of directors (all ten FBS leagues plus Notre Dame) would have to vote to allow access to an eleventh member, access to the playoff AND MONEY share for a new member.

The WAC is NOT "grandfathered in" as a CFP member. The agreement governing the CFP is a PRIVATE contract among the existing FBS conferences. They have no incentive/obligation to bring the WAC into the contract even IF the WAC regains status as an FBS conference. The NCAA and the CFP are separate entities.The NCAA has NO control over the CFP LLC-- a private COMPANY.

IMHO---chances of the CFP Administration giving the WAC any money, etc. are next to ZERO.

And without the money and playoff access schools would not attempt an FBS move---

EXCEPT as individual entities to an existing FBS conference.


I AGREE with SammyH's post #371.

If they (new WAC) --even if FBS-- are not a part of the CFP contract, they don't get anything. Once the deal is signed, a new conference can't insist on being a part. And these are long term contracts

(11-25-2022 06:59 PM)SammyH Wrote:  

(11-25-2022 05:01 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  

(11-25-2022 04:22 PM)unalions Wrote:  

(11-25-2022 02:34 PM)lion1983 Wrote:  The way I understand it is, because the WAC was FBS before, the NCAA will allow them back to FBS provided they show continuity.

The way it has been explained to me is, the WAC and ASUN put football schools together in FCS for a few years (also to my understanding, the past two seasons will count). When Tarleton and Utah Tech complete their transitions, the WAC will accept all ASUN football schools as full members. At that point, the non football schools in the WAC will have found homes in other conferences (some going to the ASUN) at that point, a few more schools will(should) join the WAC.

Also to my understanding, it has to be called the WAC the duration of FCS to continue continuity.

Of interest from the ASUN board this afternoon.

Now THERE is somebody that knows something! The WAC has been talking FBS since it kickstarted football again. It has had 3 years and floors of lawyers at its disposal to figure out how to get it done. The WAC-ASUN FCS scheduling partnership provides the qualified head count for FBS by 2024. It will take some time, but it must be done by 2024 to get those new CFP contract monies that Matt Brown was trying to regurgitate as news. Everything changes in 2024. I repeat: by the end of 2024, you're either in or you're OUT! I've been saying it for 2 years now. Sam and nmsu got restless and took the bird in hand with CUSA, which is the smart move. Tarleton wants to secure its inclusion either with or without the WAC/ASUN. Again, almost impossible to do while still in transition, but its the smart move to try. We're at least making sure we check all the boxes, and I applaud our Prez and AD for doing so.. I for one hope the WAC gets it done and we stay put. All they have to do is get the initial qualified headcount, then the conference can expand/retract as it sees fit.

Why is Tarleton going to such great lengths to get themselves into the big leagues (fake attendance, stadium expansion, fake enrollment numbers) when they just turned down a CUSA invite like you alleged? If NMST and SHSU smart, is Tarleton dumb? Lol!

This is a pipe dream. The same regurgitated BS from two years ago. The WAC will NOT be FBS, especially without their football flagship in SAM HOUSTON. When we left, so did any chance of using that silly clause. But enjoy your one bid hybrid league with North Alabama and Dixie State.

Oh quite the contrary, bucko. The Texas WAC schools see that scam houston somehow weaseled its way into a FBS conference when they're about as FBS ready as Seattle. We know sam will fail miserably at the next level because their foundation is weak. As in non-existent. No support, no facilities, no fanbase, nothing but the prison yard and that football "title" during Covid year to hang its hat on. And that was after 50+ years of winning jack squat in the SLC. Hey, it worked, so good for sam! Their moving up only gives the real FBS-ready schools in Texas more incentive. Whatever sam can do Tarleton/SFA/ACU can (and will) do better. Facts.

(11-25-2022 07:08 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  I'm no expert. The following are my educated GUESSES. I'm NOT a "know it all".

Now with those disclaimers out of the way...

What do we know?

The FBS component would be EXTREMELY difficult to complete.

I base this on facts, research, and opinions of people more knowledgeable than me.



The CFP Administration, LLC is a PRIVATE COMPANY and can choose members at its own discretion.[google: CollegeFootballPlayoff.com]

The college football playoff board of directors (all ten FBS leagues plus Notre Dame) would have to vote to allow access to an eleventh member, access to the playoff AND MONEY share for a new member.

The WAC is NOT "grandfathered in" as a CFP member. The agreement governing the CFP is a PRIVATE contract among the existing FBS conferences. They have no incentive/obligation to bring the WAC into the contract even IF the WAC regains status as an FBS conference. The NCAA and the CFP are separate entities.The NCAA has NO control over the CFP LLC-- a private COMPANY.

IMHO---chances of the CFP Administration giving the WAC any money, etc. are next to ZERO.

And without the money and playoff access schools would not attempt an FBS move---

EXCEPT as individual entities to an existing FBS conference.


I AGREE with SammyH's post #371.

So, you're saying a private entity cannot be sued? Get a grip, man.

(11-25-2022 07:32 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  

(11-25-2022 07:08 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  I'm no expert. The following are my educated GUESSES. I'm NOT a "know it all".

Now with those disclaimers out of the way...

What do we know?

The FBS component would be EXTREMELY difficult to complete.

I base this on facts, research, and opinions of people more knowledgeable than me.



The CFP Administration, LLC is a PRIVATE COMPANY and can choose members at its own discretion.[google: CollegeFootballPlayoff.com]

The college football playoff board of directors (all ten FBS leagues plus Notre Dame) would have to vote to allow access to an eleventh member, access to the playoff AND MONEY share for a new member.

The WAC is NOT "grandfathered in" as a CFP member. The agreement governing the CFP is a PRIVATE contract among the existing FBS conferences. They have no incentive/obligation to bring the WAC into the contract even IF the WAC regains status as an FBS conference. The NCAA and the CFP are separate entities.The NCAA has NO control over the CFP LLC-- a private COMPANY.

IMHO---chances of the CFP Administration giving the WAC any money, etc. are next to ZERO.

And without the money and playoff access schools would not attempt an FBS move---

EXCEPT as individual entities to an existing FBS conference.


I AGREE with SammyH's post #371.

So, you're saying a private entity cannot be sued? Get a grip, man.

Sure, anybody can be sued at anytime for almost anything.

But-- as long as the CFP contract is legal and in effect-- the party bringing suit would have to have "grounds" for legal action.

CFP is a business and is within their discretion to determine membership.

Anti-trust? Good luck proving that since membership includes 131 different schools across the country; public, private, large budget, small budget, religious, large, and small enrollment. Hardly a monopoly.

AND already has in place a system to add new members at the free choice of the ten FBS conferences.

(11-25-2022 08:01 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  

(11-25-2022 07:32 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  

(11-25-2022 07:08 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  I'm no expert. The following are my educated GUESSES. I'm NOT a "know it all".

Now with those disclaimers out of the way...

What do we know?

The FBS component would be EXTREMELY difficult to complete.

I base this on facts, research, and opinions of people more knowledgeable than me.



The CFP Administration, LLC is a PRIVATE COMPANY and can choose members at its own discretion.[google: CollegeFootballPlayoff.com]

The college football playoff board of directors (all ten FBS leagues plus Notre Dame) would have to vote to allow access to an eleventh member, access to the playoff AND MONEY share for a new member.

The WAC is NOT "grandfathered in" as a CFP member. The agreement governing the CFP is a PRIVATE contract among the existing FBS conferences. They have no incentive/obligation to bring the WAC into the contract even IF the WAC regains status as an FBS conference. The NCAA and the CFP are separate entities.The NCAA has NO control over the CFP LLC-- a private COMPANY.

IMHO---chances of the CFP Administration giving the WAC any money, etc. are next to ZERO.

And without the money and playoff access schools would not attempt an FBS move---

EXCEPT as individual entities to an existing FBS conference.


I AGREE with SammyH's post #371.

So, you're saying a private entity cannot be sued? Get a grip, man.

Sure, anybody can be sued at anytime for almost anything.

But-- as long as the CFP contract is legal and in effect-- the party bringing suit would have to have "grounds" for legal action.

CFP is a business and is within their discretion to determine membership.

Anti-trust? Good luck proving that since membership includes 131 different schools across the country; public, private, large budget, small budget, religious, large, and small enrollment.

Even if it went the WAC's way the best they could be told would be to re-apply when the next contract expires around 2034-36.

We shall see....

(11-25-2022 08:06 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  

(11-25-2022 08:01 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  

(11-25-2022 07:32 PM)Itinerant Texan Wrote:  

(11-25-2022 07:08 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  I'm no expert. The following are my educated GUESSES. I'm NOT a "know it all".

Now with those disclaimers out of the way...

What do we know?

The FBS component would be EXTREMELY difficult to complete.

I base this on facts, research, and opinions of people more knowledgeable than me.



The CFP Administration, LLC is a PRIVATE COMPANY and can choose members at its own discretion.[google: CollegeFootballPlayoff.com]

The college football playoff board of directors (all ten FBS leagues plus Notre Dame) would have to vote to allow access to an eleventh member, access to the playoff AND MONEY share for a new member.

The WAC is NOT "grandfathered in" as a CFP member. The agreement governing the CFP is a PRIVATE contract among the existing FBS conferences. They have no incentive/obligation to bring the WAC into the contract even IF the WAC regains status as an FBS conference. The NCAA and the CFP are separate entities.The NCAA has NO control over the CFP LLC-- a private COMPANY.

IMHO---chances of the CFP Administration giving the WAC any money, etc. are next to ZERO.

And without the money and playoff access schools would not attempt an FBS move---

EXCEPT as individual entities to an existing FBS conference.


I AGREE with SammyH's post #371.

So, you're saying a private entity cannot be sued? Get a grip, man.

Sure, anybody can be sued at anytime for almost anything.

But-- as long as the CFP contract is legal and in effect-- the party bringing suit would have to have "grounds" for legal action.

CFP is a business and is within their discretion to determine membership.

Anti-trust? Good luck proving that since membership includes 131 different schools across the country; public, private, large budget, small budget, religious, large, and small enrollment.

Even if it went the WAC's way the best they could be told would be to re-apply when the next contract expires around 2034-36.

We shall see....

No, no we won’t see. G5 schools like Sam Houston, worthy of playing big time football, moved into the FBS precisely to align themselves with peer schools and to get away from the insignificant, over ambitious JUCOs that are flooding the once great FCS landscape. Sorry, the CFP administrators will NOT be expanding upon their current contract to give money and playoff access to a hybrid league including small time schools like Tarleton State, North Alabama and Dixie State. It’s not worth it.

Sorry. No matter how many legal loopholes or grandfather clauses Tarleton claims to try and sneak their way into FBS, they’ll never be important enough to actually get in. If they were, they’d be on their way to CUSA right now.

Now, SammyH is going to go enjoy club FBS! IlliterateTexan, the bouncer said you’re not on the list!

(11-25-2022 03:56 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  

(11-24-2022 12:45 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  

(11-24-2022 12:22 AM)Tmac13 Wrote:  As far as getting a small piece of the CFP pie? That isn't absolutely necessary, and even a small FBS media deal dwarfs anything that can be earned in FCS.

FWIW, ADs and conference leaders in the WAC and ASUN have specifically told me that it IS necessary. It's why New Mexico State took the Conference USA invite that they didn't really actually want. That money is going to be a bigger payout than TV, and given how much costs increase at FBS, it is completely impossible to move up without it.

This post brought over from the csnbbs realignment board.

Matt Brown has been spot on with everything. But to say NMSU took a CUSA invite they really didn’t want is ridiculous. NMSU would have taken the first FBS invite they got even if all the schools were in Guatemala.

If this WAC-FBS dream were to become reality, would NMSU and Sam Houston consider coming back?