(08-23-2022 08:13 AM)ShakeNBake Wrote:  No one is leaving the ACC anytime soon...if ever! All fantasy talk.

What is virtually certain is that some are. Neither the SEC nor the Big Ten are going to stop at 16 forever. The only questions are when and where.

What this thread demonstrates is that the ACC's GoR is, in fact, an obstacle in the way of further P2 realignment in the near future. The definition of "near future" is unclear. The Big Ten can add teams from the PAC without obstacle or serious opposition at any time. The cost to the SEC for future expansion is a lot more complicated, but the obstacles they have to overcome are not insurmountable.

(08-23-2022 11:05 AM)ken d Wrote:  What this thread demonstrates is that the ACC's GoR is, in fact, an obstacle in the way of further P2 realignment in the near future. The definition of "near future" is unclear. The Big Ten can add teams from the PAC without obstacle or serious opposition at any time. The cost to the SEC for future expansion is a lot more complicated, but the obstacles they have to overcome are not insurmountable.

I posit ...
lack of interest ...

WHAT’S THE HOLDUP

I see no way (minus ND, but we're content for now) for an ACC school to leave. I hope someone tries it( FSU) but it will be bloody.

I would love to toast marshmallows on the tirefire that is the ACC.

(08-24-2022 06:30 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  I see no way (minus ND, but we're content for now) for an ACC school to leave. I hope someone tries it( FSU) but it will be bloody.

I would love to toast marshmallows on the tirefire that is the ACC.

Just like northerners moving south to bask in the business friendly state laws and cheaper living, ruining a great thing. We’ve become the Atlantic Carpetbagger Conference, and your post perfectly sums up your ungrateful, pathetic attitude. Thanks again for another stellar contribution.

(08-24-2022 07:34 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(08-24-2022 06:30 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  I see no way (minus ND, but we're content for now) for an ACC school to leave. I hope someone tries it( FSU) but it will be bloody.

I would love to toast marshmallows on the tirefire that is the ACC.

Just like northerners moving south to bask in the business friendly state laws and cheaper living, ruining a great thing. We’ve become the Atlantic Carpetbagger Conference, and your post perfectly sums up your ungrateful, pathetic attitude. Thanks again for another stellar contribution.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ding, Ding, Ding.........we have a winner!

(08-24-2022 07:51 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-24-2022 07:34 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(08-24-2022 06:30 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  I see no way (minus ND, but we're content for now) for an ACC school to leave. I hope someone tries it( FSU) but it will be bloody.

I would love to toast marshmallows on the tirefire that is the ACC.

Just like northerners moving south to bask in the business friendly state laws and cheaper living, ruining a great thing. We’ve become the Atlantic Carpetbagger Conference, and your post perfectly sums up your ungrateful, pathetic attitude. Thanks again for another stellar contribution.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ding, Ding, Ding.........we have a winner!

XLance and esayem, I wouldn't lump all of us "northerners" in this basket. Many of us fans of the "norther tier" schools are very happy in the ACC and appreciative of our conference mates.
Unfortunately, there seems to be no shortage of entitled attitudes, quite often divorced from reality. You see it everywhere in society; this board being no exception to this.

I don't think that it is North v. South.

It is just that ND fans don't accept or even understand the concept of "loyalty" to a 501 ©(3) North Carolina corporation nor the concept of "conference mates".

It is a foreign idea that is resisted by ND fans.

Watching conference schools bail on long term conference relationships for more lucre only reinforces this. No one really has that much "loyalty" to a conference, do they?

(If there was no ACC GOR, how many "conference brethren" would run for the nearest exit?)

Loyalty to a conference or "conference pride" are alien, bizarre things to ND fans. Its been a football independent for 135 years, only a member of a conference for one year due to a pandemic.

(Basketball and baseball and other sports don't really count, not really a factor regarding mindset here. A conference is just somewhere to park these sports. Even then, ND basketball has only been in a conference for 27 of its 130 or so years)

Other fellow conference schools are viewed as athletic opponents and temporary business partners, that is the mindset. Not "brethren". This isn't a college fraternity or a combat unit under fire.

(Hell, Domer and I may be the only two ND fans who even come to this or any other ACC website. The rest don't even bother. Where are they ?)

We might end up at any time as adversaries. No reason to form close, personal relationships or any emotional loyalties.

Unlike other former Big East members, you don't see ND fans lamenting its demise nor dreamingly pine for those days.

This is just a cold, calculating business arrangement that works until it doesn't. Nothing more. A contractual arrangement. A transaction.

No need to re-fight the Civil War.

North v. South is irrelevant to Domer's comments. Its merely an ND thing, due to history and experiences.

It may be ACC specific for Domer, but for most ND fans it doesn't matter which conference is involved. All are alien, third party things.

IF ND joins the Big Ten, there will be similar thought processes involved.

This is one big reason that I keep saying that ND is not a "good fit' for any conference at all. History matters.

(08-24-2022 08:50 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(08-24-2022 07:51 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-24-2022 07:34 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(08-24-2022 06:30 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  I see no way (minus ND, but we're content for now) for an ACC school to leave. I hope someone tries it( FSU) but it will be bloody.

I would love to toast marshmallows on the tirefire that is the ACC.

Just like northerners moving south to bask in the business friendly state laws and cheaper living, ruining a great thing. We’ve become the Atlantic Carpetbagger Conference, and your post perfectly sums up your ungrateful, pathetic attitude. Thanks again for another stellar contribution.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ding, Ding, Ding.........we have a winner!

XLance and esayem, I wouldn't lump all of us "northerners" in this basket. Many of us fans of the "norther tier" schools are very happy in the ACC and appreciative of our conference mates.
Unfortunately, there seems to be no shortage of entitled attitudes, quite often divorced from reality. You see it everywhere in society; this board being no exception to this.

BC has to cling onto the corpse of the ACC, otherwise off to the MAC for you. Shocking you would be happy.

IMO, the thing that makes Notre Dame special IS its independence. Once that's gone they are just another private school in Indiana with a decent football team (and don't think for one minute the Irish will continue to recruit nationally as well as they do if they're in the Big Ten - those Southern players won't be as easy to sign when they know they'll never play in front of their home town friends).

You be you, ND - the ACC will set fire to the football world this season without you.

(08-24-2022 09:01 AM)TerryD Wrote:  I don't think that it is North v. South.

It is just that ND fans don't accept or even understand the concept of "loyalty" to a 501 ©(3) North Carolina corporation nor the concept of "conference mates".

It is a foreign idea that is resisted by ND fans.

Watching conference schools bail on long term conference relationships for more lucre only reinforces this. No one really has that much "loyalty" to a conference, do they?

(If there was no ACC GOR, how many "conference brethren" would run for the nearest exit?)

Loyalty to a conference or "conference pride" are alien, bizarre things to ND fans. Its been a football independent for 135 years, only a member of a conference for one year due to a pandemic.

(Basketball and baseball and other sports don't really count, not really a factor regarding mindset here. A conference is just somewhere to park these sports. Even then, ND basketball has only been in a conference for 27 of its 130 or so years)

Other fellow conference schools are viewed as athletic opponents and temporary business partners, that is the mindset. Not "brethren". This isn't a college fraternity or a combat unit under fire.

(Hell, Domer and I may be the only two ND fans who even come to this or any other ACC website. The rest don't even bother. Where are they ?)

We might end up at any time as adversaries. No reason to form close, personal relationships or any emotional loyalties.

This is just a cold, calculating business arrangement that works until it doesn't. Nothing more. A contractual arrangement. A transaction.

No need to re-fight the Civil War.

North v. South is irrelevant to Domer's comments. Its merely an ND thing, due to history and experiences.

It may be ACC specific for Domer, but for most ND fans it doesn't matter which conference is involved. All are alien, third party things.

IF ND joins the Big Ten, there will be similar thought processes involved.

This is one big reason that I keep saying that ND is not a "good fit' for any conference at all. History matters.

I just figured Notre Dame fans would be grateful they can:

A) Keep on playing as a football Independent

B) Play in the best basketball conference on the East coast

C) Garner bowl tie-ins

D) Play traditional powers of the south, like Clemson, Florida State, and Miami, exposing their program to recruits

E) Be members of an excellent Olympic sports conference with like-minded institutions for non-revenue sports



I'm not fighting a civil war; my northern brother-in-law is a HUGE Notre Dame fan and loves ACC basketball, even attending the tournament in Greensboro with me. He and other fans I've met enjoy the arrangement and see its benefits.

Maybe it's just the ND fans here, because it doesn't seem to be an issue with any others I've met. They don't like the Big Ten and this deal works in keeping with that tradition.

(08-24-2022 09:37 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  IMO, the thing that makes Notre Dame special IS its independence. Once that's gone they are just another private school in Indiana with a decent football team and dreary weather FIFY (and don't think for one minute the Irish will continue to recruit nationally as well as they do if they're in the Big Ten - those Southern players won't be as easy to sign when they know they'll never play in front of their home town friends).

You be you, ND - the ACC will set fire to the football world this season without you.

COULDN’T RESIST

(08-24-2022 08:50 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(08-24-2022 07:51 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-24-2022 07:34 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(08-24-2022 06:30 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  I see no way (minus ND, but we're content for now) for an ACC school to leave. I hope someone tries it( FSU) but it will be bloody.

I would love to toast marshmallows on the tirefire that is the ACC.

Just like northerners moving south to bask in the business friendly state laws and cheaper living, ruining a great thing. We’ve become the Atlantic Carpetbagger Conference, and your post perfectly sums up your ungrateful, pathetic attitude. Thanks again for another stellar contribution.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ding, Ding, Ding.........we have a winner!

XLance and esayem, I wouldn't lump all of us "northerners" in this basket. Many of us fans of the "norther tier" schools are very happy in the ACC and appreciative of our conference mates.
Unfortunately, there seems to be no shortage of entitled attitudes, quite often divorced from reality. You see it everywhere in society; this board being no exception to this.

My post was dripping with melodrama and was quite tongue in cheek, I wouldn't lump any one group together.

Except Duke fans. And possibly Michigan fans. They're all terrible.

(08-24-2022 09:46 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(08-24-2022 09:01 AM)TerryD Wrote:  I don't think that it is North v. South.

It is just that ND fans don't accept or even understand the concept of "loyalty" to a 501 ©(3) North Carolina corporation nor the concept of "conference mates".

It is a foreign idea that is resisted by ND fans.

Watching conference schools bail on long term conference relationships for more lucre only reinforces this. No one really has that much "loyalty" to a conference, do they?

(If there was no ACC GOR, how many "conference brethren" would run for the nearest exit?)

Loyalty to a conference or "conference pride" are alien, bizarre things to ND fans. Its been a football independent for 135 years, only a member of a conference for one year due to a pandemic.

(Basketball and baseball and other sports don't really count, not really a factor regarding mindset here. A conference is just somewhere to park these sports. Even then, ND basketball has only been in a conference for 27 of its 130 or so years)

Other fellow conference schools are viewed as athletic opponents and temporary business partners, that is the mindset. Not "brethren". This isn't a college fraternity or a combat unit under fire.

(Hell, Domer and I may be the only two ND fans who even come to this or any other ACC website. The rest don't even bother. Where are they ?)

We might end up at any time as adversaries. No reason to form close, personal relationships or any emotional loyalties.

This is just a cold, calculating business arrangement that works until it doesn't. Nothing more. A contractual arrangement. A transaction.

No need to re-fight the Civil War.

North v. South is irrelevant to Domer's comments. Its merely an ND thing, due to history and experiences.

It may be ACC specific for Domer, but for most ND fans it doesn't matter which conference is involved. All are alien, third party things.

IF ND joins the Big Ten, there will be similar thought processes involved.

This is one big reason that I keep saying that ND is not a "good fit' for any conference at all. History matters.

I just figured Notre Dame fans would be grateful they can:

A) Keep on playing as a football Independent

B) Play in the best basketball conference on the East coast

C) Garner bowl tie-ins

D) Play traditional powers of the south, like Clemson, Florida State, and Miami, exposing their program to recruits

E) Be members of an excellent Olympic sports conference with like-minded institutions for non-revenue sports



I'm not fighting a civil war; my northern brother-in-law is a HUGE Notre Dame fan and loves ACC basketball, even attending the tournament in Greensboro with me. He and other fans I've met enjoy the arrangement and see its benefits.

Maybe it's just the ND fans here, because it doesn't seem to be an issue with any others I've met. They don't like the Big Ten and this deal works in keeping with that tradition.

I live two hours from Greensboro and have never had any interest in attending the ACC basketball tournament.

I have little interest in non-ND ACC sporting events. I rarely watch them. To be fair, I don't understand non-ND ACC fans wanting to watch an ND game, either.

I only watch ND games on the ACC Network. Nothing else. I watched Packer & Durham in 2020, but only because they talked about ND then.

I am a lifelong conference agnostic. I stop by here because the topics may involve or affect ND.

Grateful? Its all just business. The ACC didn't offer ND because it cared about the Irish or their goals.

The ACC got something in return in these bilateral contracts. ND played the ACC off against the Big Ten to stay independent. The same with 2020, it as a good business deal for both sides.

Both sides got something. It was a good deal. I just don't get the emotional attachment other people have for conferences. Its all just business and conferences are fungible. One collapses, form or join another one, if necessary.

For the record, I have despised the Big Ten with a white hot passion since the mid-Sixties. I won't be any more interested in the Big Ten even if ND joins.

I won't have any warm feelings for the Big Ten even if ND is a member and will ignore all non-ND Big Ten games. I won't mind if the Big Ten collapses if ND joins. Its just another conference.

(08-24-2022 09:46 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(08-24-2022 09:01 AM)TerryD Wrote:  I don't think that it is North v. South.

It is just that ND fans don't accept or even understand the concept of "loyalty" to a 501 ©(3) North Carolina corporation nor the concept of "conference mates".

It is a foreign idea that is resisted by ND fans.

Watching conference schools bail on long term conference relationships for more lucre only reinforces this. No one really has that much "loyalty" to a conference, do they?

(If there was no ACC GOR, how many "conference brethren" would run for the nearest exit?)

Loyalty to a conference or "conference pride" are alien, bizarre things to ND fans. Its been a football independent for 135 years, only a member of a conference for one year due to a pandemic.

(Basketball and baseball and other sports don't really count, not really a factor regarding mindset here. A conference is just somewhere to park these sports. Even then, ND basketball has only been in a conference for 27 of its 130 or so years)

Other fellow conference schools are viewed as athletic opponents and temporary business partners, that is the mindset. Not "brethren". This isn't a college fraternity or a combat unit under fire.

(Hell, Domer and I may be the only two ND fans who even come to this or any other ACC website. The rest don't even bother. Where are they ?)

We might end up at any time as adversaries. No reason to form close, personal relationships or any emotional loyalties.

This is just a cold, calculating business arrangement that works until it doesn't. Nothing more. A contractual arrangement. A transaction.

No need to re-fight the Civil War.

North v. South is irrelevant to Domer's comments. Its merely an ND thing, due to history and experiences.

It may be ACC specific for Domer, but for most ND fans it doesn't matter which conference is involved. All are alien, third party things.

IF ND joins the Big Ten, there will be similar thought processes involved.

This is one big reason that I keep saying that ND is not a "good fit' for any conference at all. History matters.

I just figured Notre Dame fans would be grateful they can:

A) Keep on playing as a football Independent

B) Play in the best basketball conference on the East coast

C) Garner bowl tie-ins

D) Play traditional powers of the south, like Clemson, Florida State, and Miami, exposing their program to recruits

E) Be members of an excellent Olympic sports conference with like-minded institutions for non-revenue sports



I'm not fighting a civil war; my northern brother-in-law is a HUGE Notre Dame fan and loves ACC basketball, even attending the tournament in Greensboro with me. He and other fans I've met enjoy the arrangement and see its benefits.

Maybe it's just the ND fans here, because it doesn't seem to be an issue with any others I've met. They don't like the Big Ten and this deal works in keeping with that tradition.

maybe it’s just me ...
I like those guys you speak of ...

CAN DO NO WRONG

(08-24-2022 06:30 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  I see no way (minus ND, but we're content for now) for an ACC school to leave. I hope someone tries it( FSU) but it will be bloody.

I would love to toast marshmallows on the tirefire that is the ACC.

For better or worse, the ACC is enabling Notre Dame’s football independence. It’s contradictory to state that Notre Dame “is content for now”, while simultaneously wanting to tear apart the ACC. These statements may make sense if you disagree with ND’s football independence and really want ND in the B1G.

(08-24-2022 09:54 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(08-24-2022 09:46 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(08-24-2022 09:01 AM)TerryD Wrote:  I don't think that it is North v. South.

It is just that ND fans don't accept or even understand the concept of "loyalty" to a 501 ©(3) North Carolina corporation nor the concept of "conference mates".

It is a foreign idea that is resisted by ND fans.

Watching conference schools bail on long term conference relationships for more lucre only reinforces this. No one really has that much "loyalty" to a conference, do they?

(If there was no ACC GOR, how many "conference brethren" would run for the nearest exit?)

Loyalty to a conference or "conference pride" are alien, bizarre things to ND fans. Its been a football independent for 135 years, only a member of a conference for one year due to a pandemic.

(Basketball and baseball and other sports don't really count, not really a factor regarding mindset here. A conference is just somewhere to park these sports. Even then, ND basketball has only been in a conference for 27 of its 130 or so years)

Other fellow conference schools are viewed as athletic opponents and temporary business partners, that is the mindset. Not "brethren". This isn't a college fraternity or a combat unit under fire.

(Hell, Domer and I may be the only two ND fans who even come to this or any other ACC website. The rest don't even bother. Where are they ?)

We might end up at any time as adversaries. No reason to form close, personal relationships or any emotional loyalties.

This is just a cold, calculating business arrangement that works until it doesn't. Nothing more. A contractual arrangement. A transaction.

No need to re-fight the Civil War.

North v. South is irrelevant to Domer's comments. Its merely an ND thing, due to history and experiences.

It may be ACC specific for Domer, but for most ND fans it doesn't matter which conference is involved. All are alien, third party things.

IF ND joins the Big Ten, there will be similar thought processes involved.

This is one big reason that I keep saying that ND is not a "good fit' for any conference at all. History matters.

I just figured Notre Dame fans would be grateful they can:

A) Keep on playing as a football Independent

B) Play in the best basketball conference on the East coast

C) Garner bowl tie-ins

D) Play traditional powers of the south, like Clemson, Florida State, and Miami, exposing their program to recruits

E) Be members of an excellent Olympic sports conference with like-minded institutions for non-revenue sports



I'm not fighting a civil war; my northern brother-in-law is a HUGE Notre Dame fan and loves ACC basketball, even attending the tournament in Greensboro with me. He and other fans I've met enjoy the arrangement and see its benefits.

Maybe it's just the ND fans here, because it doesn't seem to be an issue with any others I've met. They don't like the Big Ten and this deal works in keeping with that tradition.

I live two hours from Greensboro and have never had any interest in attending the ACC basketball tournament.

I have little interest in non-ND ACC sporting events. I rarely watch them. It is just two non-ND teams playing.

I only watch ND games on the ACC Network. I am a lifelong conference agnostic.

Grateful? Its all just business. The ACC got something in return in these bilateral contracts. ND played the ACC off against the Big Ten to stay independent. It was a business move.

Both sides got something. It just may have run its course.

For the record, I have despised the Big Ten with a white hot passion since the mid-Sixties. I won't be any more interested in the Big Ten even if ND joins.

I won't have any warm feelings for the Big Ten even if ND is a member and will ignore all non-ND Big Ten games. I won't mind if the Big Ten collapses.

So you are a Notre Dame fan and not a sports fan. Got it.

(08-24-2022 10:04 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(08-24-2022 06:30 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  I see no way (minus ND, but we're content for now) for an ACC school to leave. I hope someone tries it( FSU) but it will be bloody.

I would love to toast marshmallows on the tirefire that is the ACC.

For better or worse, the ACC is enabling Notre Dame’s football independence. It’s contradictory to state that Notre Dame “is content for now”, while simultaneously wanting to tear apart the ACC. These statements may make sense if you disagree with ND’s football independence and really want ND in the B1G.

Case closed.

(08-24-2022 10:04 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(08-24-2022 06:30 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  I see no way (minus ND, but we're content for now) for an ACC school to leave. I hope someone tries it( FSU) but it will be bloody.

I would love to toast marshmallows on the tirefire that is the ACC.

For better or worse, the ACC is enabling Notre Dame’s football independence. It’s contradictory to state that Notre Dame “is content for now”, while simultaneously wanting to tear apart the ACC. These statements may make sense if you disagree with ND’s football independence and really want ND in the B1G.

Big East. The ACC deserves it's fate, much like the Pac. Bad leadership equals bad reaults.

(08-24-2022 10:10 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(08-24-2022 10:04 AM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  

(08-24-2022 06:30 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  I see no way (minus ND, but we're content for now) for an ACC school to leave. I hope someone tries it( FSU) but it will be bloody.

I would love to toast marshmallows on the tirefire that is the ACC.

For better or worse, the ACC is enabling Notre Dame’s football independence. It’s contradictory to state that Notre Dame “is content for now”, while simultaneously wanting to tear apart the ACC. These statements may make sense if you disagree with ND’s football independence and really want ND in the B1G.

Case closed.

Case re-opened. Give me the Big East!