MUST WATCH: Youtube...Wildcat Country Arizona 7-13-2022........John Canzano is Guest at 20:40......Also Wiki is saying that PAC-12 Network has contacts with DAZN for Canada. And Seven Network's 7 Plus in Australia. And vague mention of China and some European country's.......Am i thinking to BIG on what ESPN might do ?.....Does someone know about PAC-12 network reach overseas ?....I must be thinking to BIG on what ACC Network can get $$$$$. Will ESPN want to shoot the moon ?

Here's a link to the above mentioned Youtube channel ....

I haven't listened to this so it's not an endorsement, but figured if it was linked it'd be easier for others to hear it themselves.

Interesting interview.

If this Canzano guy is right ... and a partnership that ESPN "glues together" between the PAC10 and ACC can move the PAC's revenue closer to the $500 million they were expecting before USC and UCLA bolted .... what does that mean for the ACC schools?


I guess that's the million dollar question.

Listened to it twice. Canzano (I think an Oregon guy based on what Arizona guys said) presented his takes like a true professional. He came off to me as someone who has heard these things - whether true or not -he's being fed info.

Eric Cohen one of the Arizona podcast guys also made some good points about why he thinks the B12 is a better option for Arizona right now. Which seems to support a rumor out there that Arizona and ASU want to go to the B12 but will wait during this 30 day window with ESPN to see how the negotiations actually go.

Obviously the focus here was on the PAC and B12. Not much discussion about the ACC or why the ACC is even considering this outside a re-branded network that might mean a little more $$$ but somehow might be renamed to include PAC? Guess what is actually being proposed behind closed doors is not getting leaked quite yet.

Canzano is also under the belief that the PAC's 10 schools will not get the $50M each for 12 teams when USC/UCLA were in the conference that didn't include their network money (laughable as that has been) but they might get to or close to $40M each with the merged network beginning in 2025.

ACC's projections for 2025 are about the same per team. So not sure how the "merged" network will increase the ACC's share of this merged network significantly enough to get the conference within at least 65% of what the Power 2 are going to get in 2025 and beyond. There has got to be some carrot for the ACC that is not being shared as well.

Cheers,
Neil

ACC payouts may be around $40M, but TV is only about $20M of that. Getting the TV money to $40M would be huge.

(07-15-2022 11:03 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  ACC payouts may be around $40M, but TV is only about $20M of that. Getting the TV money to $40M would be huge.

Sounds like it is all coming together

I think DIRECTV knew this was coming. They put the BTN on channel 610. Then, they put the SECN on 611. Everyone expected them to save 612 for the P12N and put the ACCN on 613 or higher. However, they ended up putting the ACCN on 612 and never added the P12N. Now, if the network is used by both the ACC and Pac-12 in the future, that "12" from channel 612 makes total sense! :)

(07-16-2022 12:36 AM)Schema Wrote:  I think DIRECTV knew this was coming. They put the BTN on channel 610. Then, they put the SECN on 611. Everyone expected them to save 612 for the P12N and put the ACCN on 613 or higher. However, they ended up putting the ACCN on 612 and never added the P12N. Now, if the network is used by both the ACC and Pac-12 in the future, that "12" from channel 612 makes total sense! :)

I can see a monster 20+ team conference also forming. Makes more sense for the ACC to grab Big12 teams from TX then look at the best Pac10 brands

(07-16-2022 07:37 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(07-16-2022 12:36 AM)Schema Wrote:  I think DIRECTV knew this was coming. They put the BTN on channel 610. Then, they put the SECN on 611. Everyone expected them to save 612 for the P12N and put the ACCN on 613 or higher. However, they ended up putting the ACCN on 612 and never added the P12N. Now, if the network is used by both the ACC and Pac-12 in the future, that "12" from channel 612 makes total sense! :)

I can see a monster 20+ team conference also forming. Makes more sense for the ACC to grab Big12 teams from TX then look at the best Pac10 brands

Hmmm ... to get to 20 (need 6) -- my preference:

For sure:
Oregon
Washington
Utah
Oklahoma State
Baylor

Then ... at the 6th spot:

Who do you pick?

Stanford? -- Cali footprint. Academic powerhouse. geography w OR, WA, UT
Colorado? -- Growing Colorado markets.
West Virginia? -- Instant rivals with many ACC schools.
TCU? -- more Texas influence. Pair with Baylor.

or ..... radical thought ... Kansas? -- serious hoops addition - we're not P2, so who cares. Let's own hoops. Plus it gives everyone a cakewalk homecoming contest in football.


(Hoops with Kansas would be insane. UNC, Duke, Syracuse, Louisville, Virginia, and Kansas -- off the charts tradition. And Baylor winning a natty recently is icing. That'd be 7 very strong hoops programs out of 20 total.)


I don't know. All this shuffling is tiresome.

College football's chase of huge money is killing off what makes college football special --- it's regionality. No more East Coast, West Coast, Plains States, Mid West, South West, South East .... just "NFL Lite". With lots of casualties along the way.

They're killing the Golden Goose. And don't realize it.

(07-16-2022 06:50 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  Who do you pick?

To get to 20, I would go with...

(Arizona State or Colorado)
Oregon
Stanford
Utah
Washington
West Virginia

4 permanent opponents - rotate the other 15, 5 per year
The 5 teams in the West can have each other as their permanent opponents to keep a regional feel.

Assuming B1G and SEC are done and Notre Dame remains independent:

ACC
20 - Arizona, Arizona St, California, Oregon, Stanford, Washington
24 - Cincinnati, Houston, TCU, West Virginia

Trickle down…

XII (8) adds for 14: Colorado, Memphis, SMU, South Florida, Temple, Utah

AAC (10) adds for 14: Florida International, Louisiana Tech, Middle Tennessee St, Western Kentucky

CUSA (5) adds FCS call-ups

ACC
Atlantic: Duke, North Carolina, North Carolina St, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest
Coastal: Clemson, Florida Sf, Georgia Tech, Houston, Miami, TCU
Eastern: Boston College, Cincinnati, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia
Pacific: Arizona, Arizona St, California, Oregon, Stanford, Washington
^ Non-football: Notre Dame

Trickle down…

XIV
East: Central Florida, Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Memphis, South Florida, Temple
West: Baylor, BYU, Colorado, Oklahoma St, SMU, Texas Tech, Utah

AAC
East: Charlotte, East Carolina, Florida Atlantic, Florida International, Middle Tennessee St, UAB, Western Kentucky
West: Louisiana Tech, Navy*, North Texas, Rice, Tulane, Tulsa, UTSA
* Football-only
^ Non-football: Wichita St

CUSA: Jacksonville St, Liberty, New Mexico St, Sam Houston St, UTEP - ???

(07-16-2022 11:05 PM)Schema Wrote:  

(07-16-2022 06:50 PM)Pervis_Griffith Wrote:  Who do you pick?

To get to 20, I would go with...

(Arizona State or Colorado)
Oregon
Stanford
Utah
Washington
West Virginia

4 permanent opponents - rotate the other 15, 5 per year
The 5 teams in the West can have each other as their permanent opponents to keep a regional feel.

Let's assume for the moment the simplest idea regarding the merger of the PAC and ACC networks is dead in the water. Then the PAC looks bleak in terms of getting what they feel they need in a new TV contract and the current seeming solidarity between members leads to dissolution of the conference.

The natural inclination seems to be that Arizona and Arizona State would go to the Big 12. Colorado is caught betwixt and between but I suspect they might ultimately go to the Big 12 as well.

That still leaves 4 viable PAC programs, of which two are already considered by many as "brand" names in football or just on the cusp, 1 is a near-brand, and 1 is an up and comer with potential so - basically Oregon, Washington, Stanford, and Utah.

Now assuming all 4 are willing these are the possible options for the ACC:

Take those 4 and stop at 18 - (likelihood of happening - 55%)

Take those 4 and 2 others and stop at 20 - (likelihood of happening 30%)

Take those 4 and 6 others and stop at 24 - (likelihood of happening 10%)

But with the changing landscape going beyond 16 might not net the conference the full monetary value needed to ensure the football brands and the near football brands already in the conference as well as the 4 coming can stay reasonably competitive with the SEC

Perhaps the conference might need to make some hard and tough decisions. And perhaps consider having 2 of BC, SU, Duke, and Wake be members of the conference for all sports but football?

That gets the conference down to 12 football playing members and the addition of those 4 PAC programs would bring it to 16 for football and 19 for all other sports assuming ND is still in on a partial membership.

Likelihood of this happening - 5%

However, the option that wasn't mentioned up above is the conference tries the merger of the networks and it doesn't put a dent into what is needed to close the gap between the SEC and the B1G and the ACC stays pat in the hope some miracle will occur to save the conference out of nothing.

Likelihood of THAT happening over any of the other options - 90%

Which makes the % prediction of going with any of the first 4 options - 10%

Hope I'm proven wrong. I think I like the going to 20 option the best.

Cheers,
Neil

The caps for the headline...

With that said, I think our best bet is to look at inventory and see which schools make the best sense from a potential matchup standpoint. The big thing with Oregon and Washington is that their politics ARE going to get involved. Gov. Kate Brown already hinted at this, I'm sure that Tina Kotek (assuming she wins) will as well. When I look at B1G vs SEC moves, the big thing is that the B1G is really looking at markets first and the SEC is looking at inventory, not to say that markets aren't influencing the SEC's moves. With Texas and Oklahoma, both have existing rivalries in the SEC, enough for a SWC/Big 8 type division within the SEC. Can't really say the same about USC and UCLA or Rutgers, Maryland and Penn State. All of those schools are just there.

That's the big issue with just jumping west. Will people care about Oklahoma St vs Oregon once the novelty wears off? Or how about Washington vs Kansas? Perhaps the people and ESPN ultimately disagrees with me, but my move to 20 would be 5 former PAC 12 North Schools plus Arizona. Then to get to 24 I'm adding Cincinnati, WVU, Kansas, and Oklahoma State.

PAC: Washington, Washington St, Oregon, Oregon St, Stanford, Arizona

Flyover: Pitt, WVU, Louisville, Cincinnati, Kansas, Oklahoma St.

Mix the remaining 12 into 2 divisions of 6 however you may wish. Western Championship in Vegas, Eastern in Charlotte... PAClantic Championship rotates between Vegas and Charlotte every other year.

The PAC isn't going to do anything until the PAC and later the XII get their new contract offers from ESPN.


This is where ESPN has all the power. If they want to kill off one or both, they will simply lowball and move the properties they want to retain over to the ACC....just as they did with OU and Texas to the SEC.

I feel confident the XII is going away. In a sense, FOX did ESPN a favor by destabilizing the PAC as that will make it easier for ESPN to rearrange the deck chairs west of the Mississippi.

The jury is still out on the PAC.

(07-17-2022 06:22 AM)GoWulfPak Wrote:  The PAC isn't going to do anything until the PAC and later the XII get their new contract offers from ESPN.


This is where ESPN has all the power. If they want to kill off one or both, they will simply lowball and move the properties they want to retain over to the ACC....just as they did with OU and Texas to the SEC.

I feel confident the XII is going away. In a sense, FOX did ESPN a favor by destabilizing the PAC as that will make it easier for ESPN to rearrange the deck chairs west of the Mississippi.

The jury is still out on the PAC.

BIG12 is Fox & CBS

(07-17-2022 06:22 AM)GoWulfPak Wrote:  The PAC isn't going to do anything until the PAC and later the XII get their new contract offers from ESPN.


This is where ESPN has all the power. If they want to kill off one or both, they will simply lowball and move the properties they want to retain over to the ACC....just as they did with OU and Texas to the SEC.

I feel confident the XII is going away. In a sense, FOX did ESPN a favor by destabilizing the PAC as that will make it easier for ESPN to rearrange the deck chairs west of the Mississippi.

The jury is still out on the PAC.

It's my understanding BOTH ESPN and FOX still have an interest in the B12. The conferences last couple of years of decent success in football (taking into account the newbies) likely means they will be okay.

On the other hand, it appears only ESPN has expressed any true interest in the PAC at this point. Since FOX has a close connection with the B1G they may have abandoned the PAC believing that eventually the B1G will come calling for two or all three of the following - Oregon, Washington and Stanford.

I am skeptical of just a network connection between the ACC and PAC will be enough to calm the waters with the Arizona schools. All it will take is for two decent programs to bail on the PAC and it's likely toast.

Big 12 looks more stable in terms of TV contract, they have Texas markets for recruiting, and have had recent success in both football and basketball. I'd be shock if the Arizona schools don't bolt.

I have been known to be wrong before.

Cheers,
Neil

I don’t know if people realized how serious the current situation is, but the next couple of months will be very critical. The Pac is in the weakest position but its schools would want to look at all the options before making any move.

The proxy war between Fox and ESPN doesn’t stop at P2 level. What does Fox want for the other weaker power conferences? Fox is in the 30 day exclusive window with the Pac but it appeas that it’s not showing much interest. Instead the (Fox controlled) B12 aggressively pursues Pac schools. If the B12 is succsessful in getting the Pac schools and becomes the BigPac or B20, that move would definitely marginalize the ACC.

The ESPN has a different idea. I guess there are three scenarios for the ESPN:

1. Broker the ACC/Pac media partnership. The payment for Pac schools has to be at least comparable with what the Pac schools would receive in the B12.
2. Move B12 schools to the ACC. That would weaken the B12. Maybe Pac schools can add TTU or some other B12 schools especially if the Pac payment is bumped thanks to the media partership.
3. Move B12 schools and Pac schools to the ACC. The ACC will be the third Power.

Personally I prefer the second or the third outcome. It seems like the best defense here is offense (i.e. expansion).

Obviously, in the end what matters the most for this battle is who has a deeper pocket between Fox and ESPN. But in the situation like this where things can go either way, I think the leadership matters. Hopefully Phillips is working real hard behind the scene.

(07-17-2022 10:37 AM)OrangeDude Wrote:  

(07-17-2022 06:22 AM)GoWulfPak Wrote:  The PAC isn't going to do anything until the PAC and later the XII get their new contract offers from ESPN.


This is where ESPN has all the power. If they want to kill off one or both, they will simply lowball and move the properties they want to retain over to the ACC....just as they did with OU and Texas to the SEC.

I feel confident the XII is going away. In a sense, FOX did ESPN a favor by destabilizing the PAC as that will make it easier for ESPN to rearrange the deck chairs west of the Mississippi.

The jury is still out on the PAC.

It's my understanding BOTH ESPN and FOX still have an interest in the B12. The conferences last couple of years of decent success in football (taking into account the newbies) likely means they will be okay.

On the other hand, it appears only ESPN has expressed any true interest in the PAC at this point. Since FOX has a close connection with the B1G they may have abandoned the PAC believing that eventually the B1G will come calling for two or all three of the following - Oregon, Washington and Stanford.

I am skeptical of just a network connection between the ACC and PAC will be enough to calm the waters with the Arizona schools. All it will take is for two decent programs to bail on the PAC and it's likely toast.

Big 12 looks more stable in terms of TV contract, they have Texas markets for recruiting, and have had recent success in both football and basketball. I'd be shock if the Arizona schools don't bolt.

I have been known to be wrong before.

Cheers,
Neil

Correct, ESPN wants to maintain the ESPN+ B-12 relationship and they want the BYU contract to stay in place through the 2026. Not sure if that is considered Tier2 or Teir3 rights. However ESPN is not spending a ton on the B-12 going fwd, that would be FOX or CBS, or both! For example the BYU and ESPN renewed their contract in 2020 through the 2026 season and the agreement calls for ESPN to broadcast at least four games on ESPN or one of its affiliate networks like ESPN2 each season. I believe that is the type of agreement that ESPN wants to maintain with the BIG12.

“They (BYU) have told us that they intend to defer to us,” Bowlsby said. “I think eventually we’ll roll their ESPN package into the Big 12 package. We haven’t had those discussions yet, but we will. We’ve had them with BYU, but we haven’t with ESPN. We’ll have those. It really is not very material, one way or the other.” - Commish Bob Bowlsby

My take is that Bob just told us that their will be no increase in monies.

link
https://kslsports.com/487454/byu-big-12-...%20rights.

College realignment is as simple as opportunistic back stabbers making their move when someone gives the wink that the coast is clear.

Nobody predicted Pitt & Syracuse. Nobody predicted OU and Texas. Nobody predicted USC and UCLA.

Now George Costanza is breaking this news? Come on. It's noting but click bait.

And nobody predicted an ACC& PAC Media Merger: Have you ever stopped and thought about the possibility of a unified Pac-12/ACC and what it does for ESPN and the TV network power struggle.

The biggest selling point here for ESPN is their existing relationship with the ACC. If the Pac-12 somehow merges with them, they are now in control of two power conferences (SEC and Pac-12/ACC). Fox would only be in control of one (Big Ten) which is a significant shift in all of this.

It is also important to look at what we all believe to be the end game here which is maximizing TV dollars. If ESPN has the ACC and Pac-12 in their control, that means they can eventually carve things out as they see fit and the Big Ten wouldn’t really be able to do much about it.

I think the important thing to understand here is a Pac-12/ACC alliance (with a written and signed contract, obviously) opens a world of possibilities for ESPN that they like and that the ACC and Pac-12 would ultimately be happy with too. Your move, Big Ten & Fox!