David Jones
djones@pennlive

"Scott Dochterman of The Atlantic inferred quite logically that FOX is not at all interested in a new B1G West Division that would impede USC and UCLA from playing Big Ten East powers Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State more than once every four years. The TV folks want the big ratings splash games as often as possible."

(My two cents. Is this saying FOX does not want Oregon and Washington in B1G.....and that is why they weren't invited along with USC and UCLA? I am a bit confused on this.)

(07-07-2022 09:41 AM)Oklahoma Guy Wrote:  David Jones
djones@pennlive

"Scott Dochterman of The Atlantic inferred quite logically that FOX is not at all interested in a new B1G West Division that would impede USC and UCLA from playing Big Ten East powers Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State more than once every four years. The TV folks want the big ratings splash games as often as possible."

(My two cents. Is this saying FOX does not want Oregon and Washington in B1G.....and that is why they weren't invited along with USC and UCLA? I am a bit confused on this.)

could be. If that's the case my preference would be to take Oregon and Washington(along with maybe 3-4 from the pac) and take whatever small group of big12 schools our tv partners would view as the best fit in this scenario to match with those pac 12 schools and go from there.

I really think you could come up with a 10 team league in that scenario that would be best in the long run for those teams.

Would it compete with the sec and bigten? No.....but I think it might be a more attractive package going forward than the alternatives.

Another reality is that if the bigten makes it clear they are not going to take Oregon and Washington or any other teams from the pac, that conference has a great chance to stick together. But if oregon and washington could be convinced of the above idea, it's possible they go in that direction. I don't see them going in the direction of joining a conference with the yet to play additions.....

(07-07-2022 10:08 AM)okiestate1979 Wrote:  

(07-07-2022 09:41 AM)Oklahoma Guy Wrote:  David Jones
djones@pennlive

Another reality is that if the bigten makes it clear they are not going to take Oregon and Washington or any other teams from the pac, that conference has a great chance to stick together. But if oregon and washington could be convinced of the above idea, it's possible they go in that direction. I don't see them going in the direction of joining a conference with the yet to play additions.....

I agree. That is why the B12 needs to try and move quickly. The Pac like the B12 can make moves to protect itself, with or without adding B12 schools. The mwc has teams that could backfill. SD state, AF, Col state, and Boise come to mind. To be honest I think the idea of Pac going away is unlikely, just like it was with the B12. The leftover 4 to 6 schools will simply gut or asorb the mwc and keep the Pac name. It has value.

(07-07-2022 09:41 AM)Oklahoma Guy Wrote:  David Jones
djones@pennlive

"Scott Dochterman of The Atlantic inferred quite logically that FOX is not at all interested in a new B1G West Division that would impede USC and UCLA from playing Big Ten East powers Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State more than once every four years. The TV folks want the big ratings splash games as often as possible."

(My two cents. Is this saying FOX does not want Oregon and Washington in B1G.....and that is why they weren't invited along with USC and UCLA? I am a bit confused on this.)

My guess is this is more of a way to nudge the B1G to kill their divisions and go to a scheduling model where they protect a few rivalries and then rotate everyone else. If they do it right, they can have a USC/OSU or USC/PSU or USC/Michigan game almost every year along with their traditional big rivalries (Mich/MSU, OSU/Mich, PSU/OSU, etc.). I honestly don't think this has anything to do with Oregon or Washington.

If this is the case and same could be said for the SEC, then I see no reason for those 5 to hang in the PAC. I think right now we’re just awaiting actual TV revenue projections for the PAC (and they will look at all options, including new schools from the Big12 or G5.). Big12 is running actual projections by adding the PAC 6 too. If FOX doesn’t want a western division in the B10, then would it want one in the Big12? Maybe the Big12 are looking at higher figured with the 12 (per school) than by adding 6 more, per school. I truly think having UH, UCF, Cincy and WVU so far away are a factor in their decisions.

The B1G having a west division also n means more options for late Saturday night games. With just ucla and usc the late night game is guaranteed to be either of these two: higher profile brand than Oregon.

(07-09-2022 10:56 AM)Goldenbuc Wrote:  If this is the case and same could be said for the SEC, then I see no reason for those 5 to hang in the PAC.

I'll come out and say what a lot of our fans are saying on the Okstate boards:

*If*(and it's a big if) the pac12 can hang onto oregon and washington, that would be a conference we would be interested in joining perhaps.

Would be surprised if a few other big12 schools wouldn't feel the same way.

The more I think about it(and this is being repeated on a lot of boards....just musings of course but it seems to be practical and common sense), everything comes down to oregon and Washington.

-If Oregon and washington don't get a bigten invite and commit to the pac and that convinces the others(the arizonas, utah, colorado) to stay, then that's an appealing conference for us and 2-3 more others to join(have to think baylor and tcu would be 2 likely choices)

-If oregon and washington don't get a bigten invite and are in no-mans land and those other pac schools do defect to the big12, then finding a way to partner with oregon and washington and some other teams(still could be baylor, tcu, a couple ACCs) to make out a conference seems ideal.

I actually the first one is more likely if oregon and washington don't get the bigten invite.

A conference made up of teams like Utah, Oregon, Oklahoma State, Washington, maybe Tcu, baylor.....that's a good starting point. Still no anchor team of course and it won't come close to making up for not playing bedlam, but speaking as an OSU fan it's more appealing than what we have now.

I hate divisionless but when the USC/UCLA announcement happened, my first thought was that divisionless was coming.

Those 2 didn’t join to play Wisconsin and Iowa—they want to play Ohio St, Michigan, and Penn St.

Don’t be shocked if USC-Michigan and UCLA-Ohio St aren’t protected rivalries in this ND-less Big 10.

(07-09-2022 06:52 PM)okiestate1979 Wrote:  

(07-09-2022 10:56 AM)Goldenbuc Wrote:  If this is the case and same could be said for the SEC, then I see no reason for those 5 to hang in the PAC.

I'll come out and say what a lot of our fans are saying on the Okstate boards:

*If*(and it's a big if) the pac12 can hang onto oregon and washington, that would be a conference we would be interested in joining perhaps.

Would be surprised if a few other big12 schools wouldn't feel the same way.

The more I think about it(and this is being repeated on a lot of boards....just musings of course but it seems to be practical and common sense), everything comes down to oregon and Washington.

-If Oregon and washington don't get a bigten invite and commit to the pac and that convinces the others(the arizonas, utah, colorado) to stay, then that's an appealing conference for us and 2-3 more others to join(have to think baylor and tcu would be 2 likely choices)

-If oregon and washington don't get a bigten invite and are in no-mans land and those other pac schools do defect to the big12, then finding a way to partner with oregon and washington and some other teams(still could be baylor, tcu, a couple ACCs) to make out a conference seems ideal.

I actually the first one is more likely if oregon and washington don't get the bigten invite.

A conference made up of teams like Utah, Oregon, Oklahoma State, Washington, maybe Tcu, baylor.....that's a good starting point. Still no anchor team of course and it won't come close to making up for not playing bedlam, but speaking as an OSU fan it's more appealing than what we have now.

Problem with leaving the big 12 is the supposed $80M exit fee. The nPAC must make this much more, over the life of the contract, more than the nBig12 contract to make the move practical

(07-09-2022 07:00 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I hate divisionless but when the USC/UCLA announcement happened, my first thought was that divisionless was coming.

Those 2 didn’t join to play Wisconsin and Iowa—they want to play Ohio St, Michigan, and Penn St.

Don’t be shocked if USC-Michigan and UCLA-Ohio St aren’t protected rivalries in this ND-less Big 10.

Does anyone care about UCLA? They haven't won a PAC championship in over 20 years in football. They draw about 42K fans to their games which looks terrible in the Rose Bowl which seats 90-100K. Their record over the last 20 years has been rather "meh." They will fail miserably in the BIG. Kalifornians do not support losing teams. 20-25K fans in the Rose Bowl will be a terrible optic. Hopefully, Cronin has has his resume updated.

(07-09-2022 08:32 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Does anyone care about UCLA? They haven't won a PAC championship in over 20 years in football. They draw about 42K fans to their games which looks terrible in the Rose Bowl which seats 90-100K. Their record over the last 20 years has been rather "meh." They will fail miserably in the BIG. Kalifornians do not support losing teams. 20-25K fans in the Rose Bowl will be a terrible optic. Hopefully, Cronin has has his resume updated.

This.

I've wondered since all this talk of the LA schools going to the B1G why people seemed to think the Pac-12 was dead w/out both USC and UCLA. I 100% get USC but no one in LA really cares about UCLA unless they're an alum. Going by the viewership numbers TxPoke published in a different thread, UCLA draws just a little more viewers on average than Indiana. So congrats on that I guess?

To be honest, LA doesn't really care about USC unless they are winning. However, they still pull a national audience given their blue blood status so I get how devastating it is losing them and why the B1G would want them. But I still don't get how all of a sudden people are acting like losing UCLA is just as bad as losing USC.

Admitting my bias, y'all should be thinking adding SDSU as a plus to your conference here is what I think about your PAC options:

Washington: "Velma, I said get me on the phone with Warren and don't take "no" for an answer." Waddaya mean they're saying "no?"

WSU: Please take us, anyone!

Oregon: "You kidding me, a step down? No way, Jose! NIKE money you MoFo!" The B12? Really?

OSU: Please take us, anyone.

Cal: We don't need anyone, we're Cal! Hey, why are my checks being bounced?

Stanford: We don't need anyone, we're Stanford!

Utah: Really? We just went to the Rose Bowl despite losing last year to SDSU and BYU. I think we were on the phone when the BIG was calling. We should be hearing from them soon.

Colorado: We have more to offer than CSU and they are, huh, they are in the MWC? We were just on the phone with Utah at the same time the BIG was calling or so I've been told..

UofA: We love being in a conference with our SoCal mates USC and UCLA. Huh? What??? They went where???

ASU: Despite not being a great academic university, we party hard and have our big brother UofA sponsor us. Thank God we have USC and UCLA to fall back on. Huh? What??? They went where???

(07-09-2022 10:14 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Admitting my bias, y'all should be thinking adding SDSU as a plus to your conference here is what I think about your PAC options:

Washington: "Velma, I said get me on the phone with Warren and don't take "no" for an answer." Waddaya mean they're saying "no?"

WSU: Please take us, anyone!

Oregon: "You kidding me, a step down? No way, Jose! NIKE money you MoFo!" The B12? Really?

Cal: We don't need anyone, we're Cal! Hey, why are my checks being bounced?

Stanford: We don't need anyone, we're Stanford!

Utah: Really? We just went to the Rose Bowl despite losing last year to SDSU and BYU. I think we were on the phone when the BIG was calling. We should be hearing from them soon.

Colorado: We have more to offer than CSU and they are, huh, they are in the MWC? We were just on the phone with Utah at the same time the BIG was calling or so I've been told..

UofA: We love being in a conference with our SoCal mates USC and UCLA. Huh? What??? They went where???

ASU: Despite not being a great academic university, we party hard and have our big brother UofA sponsor us. Thank God we have USC and UCLA to fall back on. Huh? What??? They went where???

many of the pac12 forums aren't looking at it(although it may end up happening) as the big12 'poaching' a few pac schools.

Instead they are wondering when a tornado comes through a rips through your conference, how can the remnants be put together to make the best of it for the most relevant parties?

And the reality is the tornado that ripped through the big12 *at this point*(at least until oregon leaves) was worse than the one slicing through the pac.

The big12 lost two giant/elite programs. The pac12 lost one. Sure it was their only giant/elite program, but the big12 lost their only two as well.

(07-09-2022 07:45 PM)Huan Wrote:  

(07-09-2022 06:52 PM)okiestate1979 Wrote:  

(07-09-2022 10:56 AM)Goldenbuc Wrote:  If this is the case and same could be said for the SEC, then I see no reason for those 5 to hang in the PAC.

I'll come out and say what a lot of our fans are saying on the Okstate boards:

*If*(and it's a big if) the pac12 can hang onto oregon and washington, that would be a conference we would be interested in joining perhaps.

Would be surprised if a few other big12 schools wouldn't feel the same way.

The more I think about it(and this is being repeated on a lot of boards....just musings of course but it seems to be practical and common sense), everything comes down to oregon and Washington.

-If Oregon and washington don't get a bigten invite and commit to the pac and that convinces the others(the arizonas, utah, colorado) to stay, then that's an appealing conference for us and 2-3 more others to join(have to think baylor and tcu would be 2 likely choices)

-If oregon and washington don't get a bigten invite and are in no-mans land and those other pac schools do defect to the big12, then finding a way to partner with oregon and washington and some other teams(still could be baylor, tcu, a couple ACCs) to make out a conference seems ideal.

I actually the first one is more likely if oregon and washington don't get the bigten invite.

A conference made up of teams like Utah, Oregon, Oklahoma State, Washington, maybe Tcu, baylor.....that's a good starting point. Still no anchor team of course and it won't come close to making up for not playing bedlam, but speaking as an OSU fan it's more appealing than what we have now.

Problem with leaving the big 12 is the supposed $80M exit fee. The nPAC must make this much more, over the life of the contract, more than the nBig12 contract to make the move practical

point taken, and that is a factor. But where there's a will, there's a way.....

And more importantly, where there is a group of lawyers and a coutroom, there is a way to **** things up to the point of muddying the waters when doing so may gain some leverage....a lot of times these things aren't as clear as they seem.

(07-09-2022 08:32 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(07-09-2022 07:00 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I hate divisionless but when the USC/UCLA announcement happened, my first thought was that divisionless was coming.

Those 2 didn’t join to play Wisconsin and Iowa—they want to play Ohio St, Michigan, and Penn St.

Don’t be shocked if USC-Michigan and UCLA-Ohio St aren’t protected rivalries in this ND-less Big 10.

Does anyone care about UCLA? They haven't won a PAC championship in over 20 years in football. They draw about 42K fans to their games which looks terrible in the Rose Bowl which seats 90-100K. Their record over the last 20 years has been rather "meh." They will fail miserably in the BIG. Kalifornians do not support losing teams. 20-25K fans in the Rose Bowl will be a terrible optic. Hopefully, Cronin has has his resume updated.

UC in the last 4 years kicked the crap out of UCLA home and away.

(07-09-2022 11:06 PM)okiestate1979 Wrote:  

(07-09-2022 10:14 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Admitting my bias, y'all should be thinking adding SDSU as a plus to your conference here is what I think about your PAC options:

Washington: "Velma, I said get me on the phone with Warren and don't take "no" for an answer." Waddaya mean they're saying "no?"

WSU: Please take us, anyone!

Oregon: "You kidding me, a step down? No way, Jose! NIKE money you MoFo!" The B12? Really?

Cal: We don't need anyone, we're Cal! Hey, why are my checks being bounced?

Stanford: We don't need anyone, we're Stanford!

Utah: Really? We just went to the Rose Bowl despite losing last year to SDSU and BYU. I think we were on the phone when the BIG was calling. We should be hearing from them soon.

Colorado: We have more to offer than CSU and they are, huh, they are in the MWC? We were just on the phone with Utah at the same time the BIG was calling or so I've been told..

UofA: We love being in a conference with our SoCal mates USC and UCLA. Huh? What??? They went where???

ASU: Despite not being a great academic university, we party hard and have our big brother UofA sponsor us. Thank God we have USC and UCLA to fall back on. Huh? What??? They went where???

many of the pac12 forums aren't looking at it(although it may end up happening) as the big12 'poaching' a few pac schools.

Instead they are wondering when a tornado comes through a rips through your conference, how can the remnants be put together to make the best of it for the most relevant parties?

And the reality is the tornado that ripped through the big12 *at this point*(at least until oregon leaves) was worse than the one slicing through the pac.

The big12 lost two giant/elite programs. The pac12 lost one. Sure it was their only giant/elite program, but the big12 lost their only two as well.

You're right, the PAC lost just one big school, USC. UCLA? Sorry, they don't bring anything other than a UC status. They haven't won a conference championship in football in over 20 years. The PAC can stay together and continue a decent brand.

When it comes down to it, there will be the SEC and the BIG and if you aren't in that club you are fighting for table scraps. Personally, within 5 years I see a "college" football league of no more than 40 teams, independent from the NCAA, where they can pay players and poach players routinely from other college football teams. The NFL will allow drafting of younger players as well. Major college football will become a semi-pro league whose only job is to make ESPN and FOX money while supplying the NFL with new meat. That's all these kids are, meat. Many won't even have a college degree to fall back on after their short stint in professional football. The networks won't care a whit.

Dupe post.

(07-10-2022 01:22 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  

(07-09-2022 11:06 PM)okiestate1979 Wrote:  

(07-09-2022 10:14 PM)Aztecgolfer Wrote:  Admitting my bias, y'all should be thinking adding SDSU as a plus to your conference here is what I think about your PAC options:

Washington: "Velma, I said get me on the phone with Warren and don't take "no" for an answer." Waddaya mean they're saying "no?"

WSU: Please take us, anyone!

Oregon: "You kidding me, a step down? No way, Jose! NIKE money you MoFo!" The B12? Really?

Cal: We don't need anyone, we're Cal! Hey, why are my checks being bounced?

Stanford: We don't need anyone, we're Stanford!

Utah: Really? We just went to the Rose Bowl despite losing last year to SDSU and BYU. I think we were on the phone when the BIG was calling. We should be hearing from them soon.

Colorado: We have more to offer than CSU and they are, huh, they are in the MWC? We were just on the phone with Utah at the same time the BIG was calling or so I've been told..

UofA: We love being in a conference with our SoCal mates USC and UCLA. Huh? What??? They went where???

ASU: Despite not being a great academic university, we party hard and have our big brother UofA sponsor us. Thank God we have USC and UCLA to fall back on. Huh? What??? They went where???

many of the pac12 forums aren't looking at it(although it may end up happening) as the big12 'poaching' a few pac schools.

Instead they are wondering when a tornado comes through a rips through your conference, how can the remnants be put together to make the best of it for the most relevant parties?

And the reality is the tornado that ripped through the big12 *at this point*(at least until oregon leaves) was worse than the one slicing through the pac.

The big12 lost two giant/elite programs. The pac12 lost one. Sure it was their only giant/elite program, but the big12 lost their only two as well.

You're right, the PAC lost just one big school, USC. UCLA? Sorry, they don't bring anything other than a UC status. They haven't won a conference championship in football in over 20 years. The PAC can stay together and continue a decent brand.

When it comes down to it, there will be the SEC and the BIG and if you aren't in that club you are fighting for table scraps. Personally, within 5 years I see a "college" football league of no more than 40 teams, independent from the NCAA, where they can pay players and poach players routinely from other college football teams. The NFL will allow drafting of younger players as well. Major college football will become a semi-pro league whose only job is to make ESPN and FOX money while supplying the NFL with new meat. That's all these kids are, meat. Many won't even have a college degree to fall back on after their short stint in professional football. The networks won't care a whit.

I will then treat them the same as USFL. A no care.

Just put UCLA and USC in a division with O$U, Michigan, Penn St. Wisonsin, Iowa and MSU.

Then make a division with Rutgers, Maryland, Northwestern, Indiana, Illinois, Nebraska, Purdue and Minnesota.

That B1G championship game would be colossal.