It is my understanding the state of Virginia allows FCS programs to fully fund athletic scholarships via student fees. That goes away with the move to FBS. I'm also under the impression all of the money raised by the Duke Club went to supplement coaches salaries and other projects within the athletics department. It's said by your AD that JMU lost $5.5 million in 2020 and I'm curious as to how that is being rectified. Even on the JMU athletic website for the Duke Club there is no mention of scholarships under the "What Is The Duke Club" banner. Inquiring minds want to know....

I don't have the details (someone else can dig them up), but we had to present the financials to the state legislature and our plan to get student fee reliance down to Virginia maximum limit for FBS schools. From what I remember of the presentation, we were already down to about the halfway point between the FCS and FBS limits with a conservative plan to get there within the next few years.

For the Duke Club question, here is what the FAQ section says:
"The “Proud and True” Fund is the root of our mission at the Duke Club. Your gift supports our student-athlete scholarships and general operating budget." Duke club has raised about $3 million unrestricted donations so far this year and is well on the way to setting a record.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

(07-02-2022 04:58 PM)703Duke2011 Wrote:  I don't have the details (someone else can dig them up), but we had to present the financials to the state legislature and our plan to get student fee reliance down to Virginia maximum limit for FBS schools. From what I remember of the presentation, we were already down to about the halfway point between the FCS and FBS limits with a conservative plan to get there within the next few years.

For the Duke Club question, here is what the FAQ section says:
"The “Proud and True” Fund is the root of our mission at the Duke Club. Your gift supports our student-athlete scholarships and general operating budget." Duke club has raised about $3 million unrestricted donations so far this year and is well on the way to setting a record.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

Thanks. How long has the Proud & True" Club been around? With scholarships costing JMU over $10 mil and you're at $3mil, well that's quite a hill to climb. Good luck.

Yeah pretty sure you're pretty far off the mark here. The state requires the total athletic budget to be under a certain percentage from student fees and the requirements are different for P5, G5, and FCS schools. If I remember correctly from Charlie King's presentation the wheels have been in motion for quite a while bringing JMU closer and closer to the G5 requirement and he certainly made it sound like it's not going to be an issue at all whatsoever. Especially with the difference in money coming from the conference in the media deal and the CFP payouts.

Lastly, as 703 pointed out, the Duke Club does go towards scholarships. We've all talked plenty about how donations do need to increase though, and it sounds like the SBC move has brought on a lot of increased donations and new donations.

(07-02-2022 11:06 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  It is my understanding the state of Virginia allows FCS programs to fully fund athletic scholarships via student fees. That goes away with the move to FBS. I'm also under the impression all of the money raised by the Duke Club went to supplement coaches salaries and other projects within the athletics department. It's said by your AD that JMU lost $5.5 million in 2020 and I'm curious as to how that is being rectified. Even on the JMU athletic website for the Duke Club there is no mention of scholarships under the "What Is The Duke Club" banner. Inquiring minds want to know....

I don’t know where you’re getting your information, but almost everything you wrote is basically wrong or a misstated reading of the simple facts.

The VA General Assembly set limitations on the % of student fees that can be used to support both FCS and FBS programs (higher for FCS, lower for FBS), however, there are no restrictions on how those student fees (once collected) can be used. The VA law is generally referred to as the “Cox Bill” so-named for the Republican Speaker of the House who crafted and oversaw the legislation’s introduction and passage. Speaker Cox was (still is) a JMU alum.

The one area where you post is correct is in stating that the Duke Club (JMU’s official athletic booster organization) raises donations that supplement the JMU varsity athletic programs. Duke Club donations are not just for football, however, as they are used to support all varsity programs.

The notion that JMU FB “lost” $5.5 million last year (or whatever you heard) is a fundamental misreading of the facts. First, by VA law, no varsity athletic program at any public college or university in VA can use general revenue (i.e. tax dollars from the legislature) to provide athletic scholarships, etc. This is not a new law, but has been in place since the beginning of time. Secondly, no athletic program can operate in the “red” (i.e. “lose” millions and continue to be in compliance with VA government accounting rules). What you’re likely misreading is that the expenses of the FB team vs. the income from FB ticket sales, sponsors, etc. ran at a deficit. That deficit (using the number of $5.5 mil you used) would then be covered (made whole) with an allocation from student fee revenue, which are considered auxiliary revenue income.

Hence the annual JMU athletic budget operates as a break-even ledger. Income from all sources, Duke Club, ticket sales, corporate sponsorships, media, gifts, = budgeted expenses. Like most non-P5 athletic programs, the revenue from media, ticket sales, etc. don’t cover the full cost of operating a legit, competitive D1 FB program. Gifts from booster clubs, and in JMU’s case, students fees, make up the difference. The ups and downs of the COVID seasons played havoc with FB and MBB ticket revenue, which no doubt required a larger than normal reallocation of student fee revenue, or perhaps even a draw-down of funds in a reserve account maintained by the athletic program. Again, the entire varsity athletic budget and operating expenses are distinct and separate from general revenues (tax dollars) used to operate JMU.

Hope this helps you better understand how the $50+ million JMU athletic budget is funded and accounted for as a “silo” unto itself.

(07-02-2022 05:54 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  Yeah pretty sure you're pretty far off the mark here. The state requires the total athletic budget to be under a certain percentage from student fees and the requirements are different for P5, G5, and FCS schools. If I remember correctly from Charlie King's presentation the wheels have been in motion for quite a while bringing JMU closer and closer to the G5 requirement and he certainly made it sound like it's not going to be an issue at all whatsoever. Especially with the difference in money coming from the conference in the media deal and the CFP payouts.

Lastly, as 703 pointed out, the Duke Club does go towards scholarships. We've all talked plenty about how donations do need to increase though, and it sounds like the SBC move has brought on a lot of increased donations and new donations.

Charlie King’s presentation to the legislative committee (whose approval was required so JMU could step-up to FBS FB) showed that JMU was already in compliance with the Cox Bill, or would be with distribution of anticipated revenue from ticket sales and SBC media rights. Compliance was not going to be a “years the making” promise. JMU already meets the rules as laid out by the Cox Bill.

(07-02-2022 11:06 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  It is my understanding the state of Virginia allows FCS programs to fully fund athletic scholarships via student fees. That goes away with the move to FBS. I'm also under the impression all of the money raised by the Duke Club went to supplement coaches salaries and other projects within the athletics department. It's said by your AD that JMU lost $5.5 million in 2020 and I'm curious as to how that is being rectified. Even on the JMU athletic website for the Duke Club there is no mention of scholarships under the "What Is The Duke Club" banner. Inquiring minds want to know....

If you got your information from that South Florida University poster that stalks the realignment board, it's crap fueled solely by his/her petty, misinformed righteous indignation. There is a group at JMU call the alpha dogs that does contribute to the football team, including uniforms. Not sure about supplementing coaching salaries, but it would be them if anyone, vs the Duke Club.

JMU, like most VA public schools, is pretty transparent about how much students are paying for athletics. Much of that has to do with the way the state reporting requirements, but I guess we all could have hid athletics costs buried in "tuition and other fees" like so many other schools.

Our hope is this conference move gets us on track to reduce the burden on students, and encourage more grads to pay if forward.

(07-02-2022 07:23 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(07-02-2022 11:06 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  It is my understanding the state of Virginia allows FCS programs to fully fund athletic scholarships via student fees. That goes away with the move to FBS. I'm also under the impression all of the money raised by the Duke Club went to supplement coaches salaries and other projects within the athletics department. It's said by your AD that JMU lost $5.5 million in 2020 and I'm curious as to how that is being rectified. Even on the JMU athletic website for the Duke Club there is no mention of scholarships under the "What Is The Duke Club" banner. Inquiring minds want to know....

I don’t know where you’re getting your information, but almost everything you wrote is basically wrong or a misstated reading of the simple facts.

The VA General Assembly set limitations on the % of student fees that can be used to support both FCS and FBS programs (higher for FCS, lower for FBS), however, there are no restrictions on how those student fees (once collected) can be used. The VA law is generally referred to as the “Cox Bill” so-named for the Republican Speaker of the House who crafted and oversaw the legislation’s introduction and passage. Speaker Cox was (still is) a JMU alum.

The one area where you post is correct is in stating that the Duke Club (JMU’s official athletic booster organization) raises donations that supplement the JMU varsity athletic programs. Duke Club donations are not just for football, however, as they are used to support all varsity programs.

The notion that JMU FB “lost” $5.5 million last year (or whatever you heard) is a fundamental misreading of the facts. First, by VA law, no varsity athletic program at any public college or university in VA can use general revenue (i.e. tax dollars from the legislature) to provide athletic scholarships, etc. This is not a new law, but has been in place since the beginning of time. Secondly, no athletic program can operate in the “red” (i.e. “lose” millions and continue to be in compliance with VA government accounting rules). What you’re likely misreading is that the expenses of the FB team vs. the income from FB ticket sales, sponsors, etc. ran at a deficit. That deficit (using the number of $5.5 mil you used) would then be covered (made whole) with an allocation from student fee revenue, which are considered auxiliary revenue income.

Hence the annual JMU athletic budget operates as a break-even ledger. Income from all sources, Duke Club, ticket sales, corporate sponsorships, media, gifts, = budgeted expenses. Like most non-P5 athletic programs, the revenue from media, ticket sales, etc. don’t cover the full cost of operating a legit, competitive D1 FB program. Gifts from booster clubs, and in JMU’s case, students fees, make up the difference. The ups and downs of the COVID seasons played havoc with FB and MBB ticket revenue, which no doubt required a larger than normal reallocation of student fee revenue, or perhaps even a draw-down of funds in a reserve account maintained by the athletic program. Again, the entire varsity athletic budget and operating expenses are distinct and separate from general revenues (tax dollars) used to operate JMU.

Hope this helps you better understand how the $50+ million JMU athletic budget is funded and accounted for as a “silo” unto itself.

Hold on there big fella. Calm your paws down. If you stop being so defensive for a minute and look at my post it obviously came from my inquiring and asking for clarity. As in my phraseology of "It's my understanding". As far as you losing $5.5 million I clearly stated in 2020, not last year. Once again, slow down and actually put some reading comprehension into what I said. If you still need proof here is the link on the loses in 2020 as headlined in JMU's own student newspaper.

https://www.breezejmu.org/sports/jmu-ath...5fd5c.html

I got my info from several folks I know who live in Virginia and follow sports up there pretty closely. So, ease up, welcome to the SB and stop being so dang sensitive.

(07-03-2022 07:09 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(07-02-2022 07:23 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(07-02-2022 11:06 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  It is my understanding the state of Virginia allows FCS programs to fully fund athletic scholarships via student fees. That goes away with the move to FBS. I'm also under the impression all of the money raised by the Duke Club went to supplement coaches salaries and other projects within the athletics department. It's said by your AD that JMU lost $5.5 million in 2020 and I'm curious as to how that is being rectified. Even on the JMU athletic website for the Duke Club there is no mention of scholarships under the "What Is The Duke Club" banner. Inquiring minds want to know....

I don’t know where you’re getting your information, but almost everything you wrote is basically wrong or a misstated reading of the simple facts.

The VA General Assembly set limitations on the % of student fees that can be used to support both FCS and FBS programs (higher for FCS, lower for FBS), however, there are no restrictions on how those student fees (once collected) can be used. The VA law is generally referred to as the “Cox Bill” so-named for the Republican Speaker of the House who crafted and oversaw the legislation’s introduction and passage. Speaker Cox was (still is) a JMU alum.

The one area where you post is correct is in stating that the Duke Club (JMU’s official athletic booster organization) raises donations that supplement the JMU varsity athletic programs. Duke Club donations are not just for football, however, as they are used to support all varsity programs.

The notion that JMU FB “lost” $5.5 million last year (or whatever you heard) is a fundamental misreading of the facts. First, by VA law, no varsity athletic program at any public college or university in VA can use general revenue (i.e. tax dollars from the legislature) to provide athletic scholarships, etc. This is not a new law, but has been in place since the beginning of time. Secondly, no athletic program can operate in the “red” (i.e. “lose” millions and continue to be in compliance with VA government accounting rules). What you’re likely misreading is that the expenses of the FB team vs. the income from FB ticket sales, sponsors, etc. ran at a deficit. That deficit (using the number of $5.5 mil you used) would then be covered (made whole) with an allocation from student fee revenue, which are considered auxiliary revenue income.

Hence the annual JMU athletic budget operates as a break-even ledger. Income from all sources, Duke Club, ticket sales, corporate sponsorships, media, gifts, = budgeted expenses. Like most non-P5 athletic programs, the revenue from media, ticket sales, etc. don’t cover the full cost of operating a legit, competitive D1 FB program. Gifts from booster clubs, and in JMU’s case, students fees, make up the difference. The ups and downs of the COVID seasons played havoc with FB and MBB ticket revenue, which no doubt required a larger than normal reallocation of student fee revenue, or perhaps even a draw-down of funds in a reserve account maintained by the athletic program. Again, the entire varsity athletic budget and operating expenses are distinct and separate from general revenues (tax dollars) used to operate JMU.

Hope this helps you better understand how the $50+ million JMU athletic budget is funded and accounted for as a “silo” unto itself.

Hold on there big fella. Calm your paws down. If you stop being so defensive for a minute and look at my post it obviously came from my inquiring and asking for clarity. As in my phraseology of "It's my understanding". As far as you losing $5.5 million I clearly stated in 2020, not last year. Once again, slow down and actually put some reading comprehension into what I said. If you still need proof here is the link on the loses in 2020 as headlined in JMU's own student newspaper.

https://www.breezejmu.org/sports/jmu-ath...5fd5c.html

I got my info from several folks I know who live in Virginia and follow sports up there pretty closely. So, ease up, welcome to the SB and stop being so dang sensitive.

You’ve obviously misread my response. It wasn’t intended to be read as sensitive or defensive in tone, because it wasn’t. It was a response born out of frustration in the misstatement of fact as imbedded in the original question you posed.

The info I shared was applicable whether it was 2020, or in any other year regarding budgeting of JMU athletics. Hopefully the response I provided clarified things for you.

As for where your info came from, I can guarantee that I’m better sourced about JMU financials then those in VA who “follow sports” closely. The facts are as I’ve shared.

(07-03-2022 08:16 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(07-03-2022 07:09 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(07-02-2022 07:23 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(07-02-2022 11:06 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  It is my understanding the state of Virginia allows FCS programs to fully fund athletic scholarships via student fees. That goes away with the move to FBS. I'm also under the impression all of the money raised by the Duke Club went to supplement coaches salaries and other projects within the athletics department. It's said by your AD that JMU lost $5.5 million in 2020 and I'm curious as to how that is being rectified. Even on the JMU athletic website for the Duke Club there is no mention of scholarships under the "What Is The Duke Club" banner. Inquiring minds want to know....

I don’t know where you’re getting your information, but almost everything you wrote is basically wrong or a misstated reading of the simple facts.

The VA General Assembly set limitations on the % of student fees that can be used to support both FCS and FBS programs (higher for FCS, lower for FBS), however, there are no restrictions on how those student fees (once collected) can be used. The VA law is generally referred to as the “Cox Bill” so-named for the Republican Speaker of the House who crafted and oversaw the legislation’s introduction and passage. Speaker Cox was (still is) a JMU alum.

The one area where you post is correct is in stating that the Duke Club (JMU’s official athletic booster organization) raises donations that supplement the JMU varsity athletic programs. Duke Club donations are not just for football, however, as they are used to support all varsity programs.

The notion that JMU FB “lost” $5.5 million last year (or whatever you heard) is a fundamental misreading of the facts. First, by VA law, no varsity athletic program at any public college or university in VA can use general revenue (i.e. tax dollars from the legislature) to provide athletic scholarships, etc. This is not a new law, but has been in place since the beginning of time. Secondly, no athletic program can operate in the “red” (i.e. “lose” millions and continue to be in compliance with VA government accounting rules). What you’re likely misreading is that the expenses of the FB team vs. the income from FB ticket sales, sponsors, etc. ran at a deficit. That deficit (using the number of $5.5 mil you used) would then be covered (made whole) with an allocation from student fee revenue, which are considered auxiliary revenue income.

Hence the annual JMU athletic budget operates as a break-even ledger. Income from all sources, Duke Club, ticket sales, corporate sponsorships, media, gifts, = budgeted expenses. Like most non-P5 athletic programs, the revenue from media, ticket sales, etc. don’t cover the full cost of operating a legit, competitive D1 FB program. Gifts from booster clubs, and in JMU’s case, students fees, make up the difference. The ups and downs of the COVID seasons played havoc with FB and MBB ticket revenue, which no doubt required a larger than normal reallocation of student fee revenue, or perhaps even a draw-down of funds in a reserve account maintained by the athletic program. Again, the entire varsity athletic budget and operating expenses are distinct and separate from general revenues (tax dollars) used to operate JMU.

Hope this helps you better understand how the $50+ million JMU athletic budget is funded and accounted for as a “silo” unto itself.

Hold on there big fella. Calm your paws down. If you stop being so defensive for a minute and look at my post it obviously came from my inquiring and asking for clarity. As in my phraseology of "It's my understanding". As far as you losing $5.5 million I clearly stated in 2020, not last year. Once again, slow down and actually put some reading comprehension into what I said. If you still need proof here is the link on the loses in 2020 as headlined in JMU's own student newspaper.

https://www.breezejmu.org/sports/jmu-ath...5fd5c.html

I got my info from several folks I know who live in Virginia and follow sports up there pretty closely. So, ease up, welcome to the SB and stop being so dang sensitive.

You’ve obviously misread my response. It wasn’t intended to be read as sensitive or defensive in tone, because it wasn’t. It was a response born out of frustration in the misstatement of fact as imbedded in the original question you posed.

The info I shared was applicable whether it was 2020, or in any other year regarding budgeting of JMU athletics. Hopefully the response I provided clarified things for you.

As for where your info came from, I can guarantee that I’m better sourced about JMU financials then those in VA who “follow sports” closely. The facts are as I’ve shared.

That's fine, I took no exception to it. It just appeared you were lashing out a bit. BTW, some of the info came from a Duke Clubber and former board member. I'll just leave it at that.

(07-05-2022 02:08 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(07-03-2022 08:16 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(07-03-2022 07:09 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(07-02-2022 07:23 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(07-02-2022 11:06 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  It is my understanding the state of Virginia allows FCS programs to fully fund athletic scholarships via student fees. That goes away with the move to FBS. I'm also under the impression all of the money raised by the Duke Club went to supplement coaches salaries and other projects within the athletics department. It's said by your AD that JMU lost $5.5 million in 2020 and I'm curious as to how that is being rectified. Even on the JMU athletic website for the Duke Club there is no mention of scholarships under the "What Is The Duke Club" banner. Inquiring minds want to know....

I don’t know where you’re getting your information, but almost everything you wrote is basically wrong or a misstated reading of the simple facts.

The VA General Assembly set limitations on the % of student fees that can be used to support both FCS and FBS programs (higher for FCS, lower for FBS), however, there are no restrictions on how those student fees (once collected) can be used. The VA law is generally referred to as the “Cox Bill” so-named for the Republican Speaker of the House who crafted and oversaw the legislation’s introduction and passage. Speaker Cox was (still is) a JMU alum.

The one area where you post is correct is in stating that the Duke Club (JMU’s official athletic booster organization) raises donations that supplement the JMU varsity athletic programs. Duke Club donations are not just for football, however, as they are used to support all varsity programs.

The notion that JMU FB “lost” $5.5 million last year (or whatever you heard) is a fundamental misreading of the facts. First, by VA law, no varsity athletic program at any public college or university in VA can use general revenue (i.e. tax dollars from the legislature) to provide athletic scholarships, etc. This is not a new law, but has been in place since the beginning of time. Secondly, no athletic program can operate in the “red” (i.e. “lose” millions and continue to be in compliance with VA government accounting rules). What you’re likely misreading is that the expenses of the FB team vs. the income from FB ticket sales, sponsors, etc. ran at a deficit. That deficit (using the number of $5.5 mil you used) would then be covered (made whole) with an allocation from student fee revenue, which are considered auxiliary revenue income.

Hence the annual JMU athletic budget operates as a break-even ledger. Income from all sources, Duke Club, ticket sales, corporate sponsorships, media, gifts, = budgeted expenses. Like most non-P5 athletic programs, the revenue from media, ticket sales, etc. don’t cover the full cost of operating a legit, competitive D1 FB program. Gifts from booster clubs, and in JMU’s case, students fees, make up the difference. The ups and downs of the COVID seasons played havoc with FB and MBB ticket revenue, which no doubt required a larger than normal reallocation of student fee revenue, or perhaps even a draw-down of funds in a reserve account maintained by the athletic program. Again, the entire varsity athletic budget and operating expenses are distinct and separate from general revenues (tax dollars) used to operate JMU.

Hope this helps you better understand how the $50+ million JMU athletic budget is funded and accounted for as a “silo” unto itself.

Hold on there big fella. Calm your paws down. If you stop being so defensive for a minute and look at my post it obviously came from my inquiring and asking for clarity. As in my phraseology of "It's my understanding". As far as you losing $5.5 million I clearly stated in 2020, not last year. Once again, slow down and actually put some reading comprehension into what I said. If you still need proof here is the link on the loses in 2020 as headlined in JMU's own student newspaper.

https://www.breezejmu.org/sports/jmu-ath...5fd5c.html

I got my info from several folks I know who live in Virginia and follow sports up there pretty closely. So, ease up, welcome to the SB and stop being so dang sensitive.

You’ve obviously misread my response. It wasn’t intended to be read as sensitive or defensive in tone, because it wasn’t. It was a response born out of frustration in the misstatement of fact as imbedded in the original question you posed.

The info I shared was applicable whether it was 2020, or in any other year regarding budgeting of JMU athletics. Hopefully the response I provided clarified things for you.

As for where your info came from, I can guarantee that I’m better sourced about JMU financials then those in VA who “follow sports” closely. The facts are as I’ve shared.

That's fine, I took no exception to it. It just appeared you were lashing out a bit. BTW, some of the info came from a Duke Clubber and former board member. I'll just leave it at that.

It’s not the first time (nor will it be the last) that a Duke Club member will wax on about subjects they have no real understanding, especially when it comes to financials. The Breeze (JMU’s student newspaper) has a well-earned reputation among JMU faithful of getting stories about half-right. Neither of these factors are capital offenses, however, their contributions to spreading misunderstandings get tiresome.

The recently published info concerning revenues/expense for athletic programs reported to the U.S. Department of Education, illustrating JMU is #1 in revenues amongst SBC schools, should further help clarify the situation. JMU’s athletic revenue stream was no doubt impacted by COVID, but talk of a multi-million dollar “deficit” is akin to debating whether a glass is half-full or half-empty. Both can be right, but JMU doesn’t run deficits. The correct “take” is JMU’s athletics did not realize as much in revenues as it was expecting. That’s not really the same as running a deficit.

And that truly is the place to leave this discussion.

We sell drugs to the ODU sorority girls hanging out on the street corners in Norfolk. I thought this was common knowledge.

(07-06-2022 12:15 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(07-05-2022 02:08 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(07-03-2022 08:16 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(07-03-2022 07:09 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(07-02-2022 07:23 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  I don’t know where you’re getting your information, but almost everything you wrote is basically wrong or a misstated reading of the simple facts.

The VA General Assembly set limitations on the % of student fees that can be used to support both FCS and FBS programs (higher for FCS, lower for FBS), however, there are no restrictions on how those student fees (once collected) can be used. The VA law is generally referred to as the “Cox Bill” so-named for the Republican Speaker of the House who crafted and oversaw the legislation’s introduction and passage. Speaker Cox was (still is) a JMU alum.

The one area where you post is correct is in stating that the Duke Club (JMU’s official athletic booster organization) raises donations that supplement the JMU varsity athletic programs. Duke Club donations are not just for football, however, as they are used to support all varsity programs.

The notion that JMU FB “lost” $5.5 million last year (or whatever you heard) is a fundamental misreading of the facts. First, by VA law, no varsity athletic program at any public college or university in VA can use general revenue (i.e. tax dollars from the legislature) to provide athletic scholarships, etc. This is not a new law, but has been in place since the beginning of time. Secondly, no athletic program can operate in the “red” (i.e. “lose” millions and continue to be in compliance with VA government accounting rules). What you’re likely misreading is that the expenses of the FB team vs. the income from FB ticket sales, sponsors, etc. ran at a deficit. That deficit (using the number of $5.5 mil you used) would then be covered (made whole) with an allocation from student fee revenue, which are considered auxiliary revenue income.

Hence the annual JMU athletic budget operates as a break-even ledger. Income from all sources, Duke Club, ticket sales, corporate sponsorships, media, gifts, = budgeted expenses. Like most non-P5 athletic programs, the revenue from media, ticket sales, etc. don’t cover the full cost of operating a legit, competitive D1 FB program. Gifts from booster clubs, and in JMU’s case, students fees, make up the difference. The ups and downs of the COVID seasons played havoc with FB and MBB ticket revenue, which no doubt required a larger than normal reallocation of student fee revenue, or perhaps even a draw-down of funds in a reserve account maintained by the athletic program. Again, the entire varsity athletic budget and operating expenses are distinct and separate from general revenues (tax dollars) used to operate JMU.

Hope this helps you better understand how the $50+ million JMU athletic budget is funded and accounted for as a “silo” unto itself.

Hold on there big fella. Calm your paws down. If you stop being so defensive for a minute and look at my post it obviously came from my inquiring and asking for clarity. As in my phraseology of "It's my understanding". As far as you losing $5.5 million I clearly stated in 2020, not last year. Once again, slow down and actually put some reading comprehension into what I said. If you still need proof here is the link on the loses in 2020 as headlined in JMU's own student newspaper.

https://www.breezejmu.org/sports/jmu-ath...5fd5c.html

I got my info from several folks I know who live in Virginia and follow sports up there pretty closely. So, ease up, welcome to the SB and stop being so dang sensitive.

You’ve obviously misread my response. It wasn’t intended to be read as sensitive or defensive in tone, because it wasn’t. It was a response born out of frustration in the misstatement of fact as imbedded in the original question you posed.

The info I shared was applicable whether it was 2020, or in any other year regarding budgeting of JMU athletics. Hopefully the response I provided clarified things for you.

As for where your info came from, I can guarantee that I’m better sourced about JMU financials then those in VA who “follow sports” closely. The facts are as I’ve shared.

That's fine, I took no exception to it. It just appeared you were lashing out a bit. BTW, some of the info came from a Duke Clubber and former board member. I'll just leave it at that.

It’s not the first time (nor will it be the last) that a Duke Club member will wax on about subjects they have no real understanding, especially when it comes to financials. The Breeze (JMU’s student newspaper) has a well-earned reputation among JMU faithful of getting stories about half-right. Neither of these factors are capital offenses, however, their contributions to spreading misunderstandings get tiresome.

The recently published info concerning revenues/expense for athletic programs reported to the U.S. Department of Education, illustrating JMU is #1 in revenues amongst SBC schools, should further help clarify the situation. JMU’s athletic revenue stream was no doubt impacted by COVID, but talk of a multi-million dollar “deficit” is akin to debating whether a glass is half-full or half-empty. Both can be right, but JMU doesn’t run deficits. The correct “take” is JMU’s athletics did not realize as much in revenues as it was expecting. That’s not really the same as running a deficit.

And that truly is the place to leave this discussion.

Just as a curiosity, can you provide a link for the US Dept of Ed report?

(07-06-2022 09:42 PM)Dukes94 Wrote:  We sell drugs to the ODU sorority girls hanging out on the street corners in Norfolk. I thought this was common knowledge.

Ha. Now that's funny. We all know no one from ODU would even think to buy the dirt schwag JMU folks are selling. Thanks for the laugh.

(07-08-2022 12:16 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(07-06-2022 12:15 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(07-05-2022 02:08 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(07-03-2022 08:16 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(07-03-2022 07:09 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  Hold on there big fella. Calm your paws down. If you stop being so defensive for a minute and look at my post it obviously came from my inquiring and asking for clarity. As in my phraseology of "It's my understanding". As far as you losing $5.5 million I clearly stated in 2020, not last year. Once again, slow down and actually put some reading comprehension into what I said. If you still need proof here is the link on the loses in 2020 as headlined in JMU's own student newspaper.

https://www.breezejmu.org/sports/jmu-ath...5fd5c.html

I got my info from several folks I know who live in Virginia and follow sports up there pretty closely. So, ease up, welcome to the SB and stop being so dang sensitive.

You’ve obviously misread my response. It wasn’t intended to be read as sensitive or defensive in tone, because it wasn’t. It was a response born out of frustration in the misstatement of fact as imbedded in the original question you posed.

The info I shared was applicable whether it was 2020, or in any other year regarding budgeting of JMU athletics. Hopefully the response I provided clarified things for you.

As for where your info came from, I can guarantee that I’m better sourced about JMU financials then those in VA who “follow sports” closely. The facts are as I’ve shared.

That's fine, I took no exception to it. It just appeared you were lashing out a bit. BTW, some of the info came from a Duke Clubber and former board member. I'll just leave it at that.

It’s not the first time (nor will it be the last) that a Duke Club member will wax on about subjects they have no real understanding, especially when it comes to financials. The Breeze (JMU’s student newspaper) has a well-earned reputation among JMU faithful of getting stories about half-right. Neither of these factors are capital offenses, however, their contributions to spreading misunderstandings get tiresome.

The recently published info concerning revenues/expense for athletic programs reported to the U.S. Department of Education, illustrating JMU is #1 in revenues amongst SBC schools, should further help clarify the situation. JMU’s athletic revenue stream was no doubt impacted by COVID, but talk of a multi-million dollar “deficit” is akin to debating whether a glass is half-full or half-empty. Both can be right, but JMU doesn’t run deficits. The correct “take” is JMU’s athletics did not realize as much in revenues as it was expecting. That’s not really the same as running a deficit.

And that truly is the place to leave this discussion.

Just as a curiosity, can you provide a link for the US Dept of Ed report?

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/

Knock yourself out.

(07-08-2022 01:37 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(07-08-2022 12:16 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(07-06-2022 12:15 AM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(07-05-2022 02:08 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(07-03-2022 08:16 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  You’ve obviously misread my response. It wasn’t intended to be read as sensitive or defensive in tone, because it wasn’t. It was a response born out of frustration in the misstatement of fact as imbedded in the original question you posed.

The info I shared was applicable whether it was 2020, or in any other year regarding budgeting of JMU athletics. Hopefully the response I provided clarified things for you.

As for where your info came from, I can guarantee that I’m better sourced about JMU financials then those in VA who “follow sports” closely. The facts are as I’ve shared.

That's fine, I took no exception to it. It just appeared you were lashing out a bit. BTW, some of the info came from a Duke Clubber and former board member. I'll just leave it at that.

It’s not the first time (nor will it be the last) that a Duke Club member will wax on about subjects they have no real understanding, especially when it comes to financials. The Breeze (JMU’s student newspaper) has a well-earned reputation among JMU faithful of getting stories about half-right. Neither of these factors are capital offenses, however, their contributions to spreading misunderstandings get tiresome.

The recently published info concerning revenues/expense for athletic programs reported to the U.S. Department of Education, illustrating JMU is #1 in revenues amongst SBC schools, should further help clarify the situation. JMU’s athletic revenue stream was no doubt impacted by COVID, but talk of a multi-million dollar “deficit” is akin to debating whether a glass is half-full or half-empty. Both can be right, but JMU doesn’t run deficits. The correct “take” is JMU’s athletics did not realize as much in revenues as it was expecting. That’s not really the same as running a deficit.

And that truly is the place to leave this discussion.

Just as a curiosity, can you provide a link for the US Dept of Ed report?

https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/

Knock yourself out.

Thanks.

DG, I suggested a few months back when they were being mentioned as a possible future SBC member, that JMU would have to fundamentally change the way they operate and find their program, and I got hammered for it just like you are.

We shall see 3-5 years from now who is right

(07-09-2022 04:51 PM)TheOriginalBigApp Wrote:  DG, I suggested a few months back when they were being mentioned as a possible future SBC member, that JMU would have to fundamentally change the way they operate and find their program, and I got hammered for it just like you are.

We shall see 3-5 years from now who is right

From what I gather(based on this thread), they don’t have to “fundamentally” change at all….they simply have to shift revenue streams and make sure it still balances. Not really any more complicated than that.

(07-09-2022 05:05 PM)wwwyzzrd Wrote:  

(07-09-2022 04:51 PM)TheOriginalBigApp Wrote:  DG, I suggested a few months back when they were being mentioned as a possible future SBC member, that JMU would have to fundamentally change the way they operate and find their program, and I got hammered for it just like you are.

We shall see 3-5 years from now who is right

From what I gather(based on this thread), they don’t have to “fundamentally” change at all….they simply have to shift revenue streams and make sure it still balances. Not really any more complicated than that.

Bingo.

The revenue “streams” won’t change, however, only the percentages of where the revenue is coming from.

The increased income from SBC media rights/distribution, higher ticket prices and greater booster donations will mean that the % of revenue from student fees will simply decrease as JMU moves forward. The revenue from student fees will still be there as presently set as there are no plans to change them or increase them, nor is there any external or internal pressure to adjust them. So long as JMU conforms to VA law (i.e. the so-called “Cox” Bill), JMU’s collection of student fees to support the varsity athletic program will continue.

It’s important to note that student fees at JMU also support the university recreation and intermural facilities (UREC and Sentara Park), which are quite large and very popular.

Just a question on the VA schools overall budget numbers.

But is it true that every thing even remotely connected to athletics in included in the accounting books? Thongs that other state schools put under other deparrments. Which is what makes your budgets look much higher. I thought this was discussed back when ODU moved up and JMU was a possible add to an FBS conference.