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Soobahk40050 Offline
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Post: #1
Divisionless Scheduling
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsspor...tions/amp/

The main board has a thread on this already, but I thought it was worth reposting.

At 16 teams, 3 permanent rivals means rotating 6 home and home and play everyone twice every four years.

It also means no geographic oddities to keep Texas and A&M apart.

For my TN, it will be interesting to me who we wind up with. Do we lose Alabama and keep more eastern schools, do we keep Alabama? Alabama, KY, and Vandy? Then we lose Georgia and Florida.

Could also do 5-5 I guess.
05-02-2022 04:19 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Divisionless Scheduling
(05-02-2022 04:19 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsspor...tions/amp/

The main board has a thread on this already, but I thought it was worth reposting.

At 16 teams, 3 permanent rivals means rotating 6 home and home and play everyone twice every four years.

It also means no geographic oddities to keep Texas and A&M apart.

For my TN, it will be interesting to me who we wind up with. Do we lose Alabama and keep more eastern schools, do we keep Alabama? Alabama, KY, and Vandy? Then we lose Georgia and Florida.

Could also do 5-5 I guess.

All of this and more. You could have six annual rivals and rotate 3 a year and rotate through everyone in 3 years with the home and home cycle completed every 6.

The options are plentiful and it takes a cap off of expansion and opens up conference semis for the best 4.
05-02-2022 04:59 PM
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murrdcu Offline
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RE: Divisionless Scheduling
(05-02-2022 04:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-02-2022 04:19 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsspor...tions/amp/

The main board has a thread on this already, but I thought it was worth reposting.

At 16 teams, 3 permanent rivals means rotating 6 home and home and play everyone twice every four years.

It also means no geographic oddities to keep Texas and A&M apart.

For my TN, it will be interesting to me who we wind up with. Do we lose Alabama and keep more eastern schools, do we keep Alabama? Alabama, KY, and Vandy? Then we lose Georgia and Florida.

Could also do 5-5 I guess.

All of this and more. You could have six annual rivals and rotate 3 a year and rotate through everyone in 3 years with the home and home cycle completed every 6.

The options are plentiful and it takes a cap off of expansion and opens up conference semis for the best 4.

A six-three would do wonders honestly. Three or four permanent rivals seems like there are too many rivalries getting lost or pushed away. With the way the transfer portal works these days, having five or six permanent rivals and scheduled to play all the other schools is still over the currEnt structure.

Semifinals and an open table will make the entire season more meaningful and entertaining down the stretch. It’ll remind me of European soccer league formats minus the relegation.
05-02-2022 08:40 PM
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Crayton Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Divisionless Scheduling
Without this change, most folks were already talking about 'pods'. Pods can accomplish just about any divisionless scheduling system (except for probably one involving ONLY 3 permanent rivals). Divisions/Pods have the advantage of competing against teams with near-identical schedules for the championship.

I could see 4-team divisions AND a "top two" CCG being used. Rank within division would be the first tie-breaker if there is no head-to-head sweep. I think the SEC would prefer this to relying on the CFP committee rankings.
05-06-2022 10:09 AM
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GoBuckeyes1047 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Divisionless Scheduling
Here's a thought for SEC divisionless scheduling. If the SEC wants to a conference semifinal for the top 4 or to just stay at 8 conference games, use 4+1 protected rivals. 4 conference rivals are annual with a 5th rival played 4 times in 6 years. Everyone else is played home & home in 6 years.

The 9th conference game is 1 vs. 4 and 2 vs. 3 for the conference semi-finals with the 2 winners meeting in the CCG. For non-championship participates, teams are paired into either 5-8, 9-12, 13-16 groups or 5-10, 11-16 groups, and teams are matched up based on the groups with an emphasis on rivalry games missed.

Obviously, it would be tough with the ACC-SEC games thanksgiving weekend unless the ACC did something similar adding a conference semifinal with divisionless scheduling and all leagues with conference semis moved their traditional rivalry week to the weekend before Thanksgiving.

Now if there was no conference semi-final games for the SEC with a 9 game conference schedule, then I would agree that the SEC needs 6 protected rivals while rotating everyone else home & home every 6 years.
05-09-2022 08:56 PM
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Porcine Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Divisionless Scheduling
(05-09-2022 08:56 PM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  Here's a thought for SEC divisionless scheduling. If the SEC wants to a conference semifinal for the top 4 or to just stay at 8 conference games, use 4+1 protected rivals. 4 conference rivals are annual with a 5th rival played 4 times in 6 years. Everyone else is played home & home in 6 years.

The 9th conference game is 1 vs. 4 and 2 vs. 3 for the conference semi-finals with the 2 winners meeting in the CCG. For non-championship participates, teams are paired into either 5-8, 9-12, 13-16 groups or 5-10, 11-16 groups, and teams are matched up based on the groups with an emphasis on rivalry games missed.

Obviously, it would be tough with the ACC-SEC games thanksgiving weekend unless the ACC did something similar adding a conference semifinal with divisionless scheduling and all leagues with conference semis moved their traditional rivalry week to the weekend before Thanksgiving.

Now if there was no conference semi-final games for the SEC with a 9 game conference schedule, then I would agree that the SEC needs 6 protected rivals while rotating everyone else home & home every 6 years.

We could moved all the big rivalry games to week 1. Kentucky and Louisville did that before that last weekend was cookie-cuttered.
(This post was last modified: 05-09-2022 09:43 PM by Porcine.)
05-09-2022 09:29 PM
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Post: #7
RE: Divisionless Scheduling
(05-09-2022 09:29 PM)Porcine Wrote:  
(05-09-2022 08:56 PM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  Here's a thought for SEC divisionless scheduling. If the SEC wants to a conference semifinal for the top 4 or to just stay at 8 conference games, use 4+1 protected rivals. 4 conference rivals are annual with a 5th rival played 4 times in 6 years. Everyone else is played home & home in 6 years.

The 9th conference game is 1 vs. 4 and 2 vs. 3 for the conference semi-finals with the 2 winners meeting in the CCG. For non-championship participates, teams are paired into either 5-8, 9-12, 13-16 groups or 5-10, 11-16 groups, and teams are matched up based on the groups with an emphasis on rivalry games missed.

Obviously, it would be tough with the ACC-SEC games thanksgiving weekend unless the ACC did something similar adding a conference semifinal with divisionless scheduling and all leagues with conference semis moved their traditional rivalry week to the weekend before Thanksgiving.

Now if there was no conference semi-final games for the SEC with a 9 game conference schedule, then I would agree that the SEC needs 6 protected rivals while rotating everyone else home & home every 6 years.

We could moved all the big rivalry games to week 1. Kentucky and Louisville did that before that last weekend was cookie-cuttered.


True on Kentucky-Louisville, but there was no way Georgia-Tech, Clemson-South Carolina, and Florida-Florida State were going to do that. A lot of tradition in all three of those games.
05-10-2022 12:40 AM
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Porcine Offline
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RE: Divisionless Scheduling
(05-10-2022 12:40 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(05-09-2022 09:29 PM)Porcine Wrote:  
(05-09-2022 08:56 PM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  Here's a thought for SEC divisionless scheduling. If the SEC wants to a conference semifinal for the top 4 or to just stay at 8 conference games, use 4+1 protected rivals. 4 conference rivals are annual with a 5th rival played 4 times in 6 years. Everyone else is played home & home in 6 years.

The 9th conference game is 1 vs. 4 and 2 vs. 3 for the conference semi-finals with the 2 winners meeting in the CCG. For non-championship participates, teams are paired into either 5-8, 9-12, 13-16 groups or 5-10, 11-16 groups, and teams are matched up based on the groups with an emphasis on rivalry games missed.

Obviously, it would be tough with the ACC-SEC games thanksgiving weekend unless the ACC did something similar adding a conference semifinal with divisionless scheduling and all leagues with conference semis moved their traditional rivalry week to the weekend before Thanksgiving.

Now if there was no conference semi-final games for the SEC with a 9 game conference schedule, then I would agree that the SEC needs 6 protected rivals while rotating everyone else home & home every 6 years.

We could moved all the big rivalry games to week 1. Kentucky and Louisville did that before that last weekend was cookie-cuttered.


True on Kentucky-Louisville, but there was no way Georgia-Tech, Clemson-South Carolina, and Florida-Florida State were going to do that. A lot of tradition in all three of those games.

I don't think they would either, but there have been more than a few no ways happening, lately. The off-season would get a lot more interesting.
05-10-2022 07:16 AM
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chester Offline
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RE: Divisionless Scheduling

Please, please, please let it be divisionlessnessness
(This post was last modified: 05-11-2022 04:25 PM by chester.)
05-11-2022 04:23 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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RE: Divisionless Scheduling
According to this article, virtually every conference could do away with divisions.

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05-11-2022 10:54 PM
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Soobahk40050 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Divisionless Scheduling
(05-09-2022 08:56 PM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  Here's a thought for SEC divisionless scheduling. If the SEC wants to a conference semifinal for the top 4 or to just stay at 8 conference games, use 4+1 protected rivals. 4 conference rivals are annual with a 5th rival played 4 times in 6 years. Everyone else is played home & home in 6 years.

The 9th conference game is 1 vs. 4 and 2 vs. 3 for the conference semi-finals with the 2 winners meeting in the CCG. For non-championship participates, teams are paired into either 5-8, 9-12, 13-16 groups or 5-10, 11-16 groups, and teams are matched up based on the groups with an emphasis on rivalry games missed.

Obviously, it would be tough with the ACC-SEC games thanksgiving weekend unless the ACC did something similar adding a conference semifinal with divisionless scheduling and all leagues with conference semis moved their traditional rivalry week to the weekend before Thanksgiving.

Now if there was no conference semi-final games for the SEC with a 9 game conference schedule, then I would agree that the SEC needs 6 protected rivals while rotating everyone else home & home every 6 years.

I like the concept here, but I think that even with a 5-10 and 11-16 group it disadvantages (can I use that as a verb?) the 5 team.

Say 1 v. 4 is a blowout. 2 vs. 3 is close, and the favorites win. That means that the 5 seed could make a case for being the third best team in the SEC, and in a 12 team playoff, that could mean a spot. But playing the 10th ranked team doesn't really help them make their case.

It would get super complicated quick, but I'd like to see a "next highest seeded team not already played." So if 5 has already played 6, they get 7. That's not a pushover, at the very least.

On the other hand, setting opponents at the last minute for what I assume would be on-campus games would be a challenge. Would semi's that count as postseason games at neutral sites work better? Would adding that extra game be allowed. That could put the National Champion at 12 + conference semi + conference final + national semi + national final (16 games, 17 if they use the Hawaii rule).
05-12-2022 02:22 PM
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Crayton Offline
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RE: Divisionless Scheduling
For now, "semis" would be splitting into 2 football conferences (maybe they'll buy the MEAC out) and sending both to the playoff with no guarantee they play each other. You can't really do "semis" as 12th games without either relocating games the last week or having teams other than the Top 4 playing in them. A note about relocating games is that MOST teams could know their opponents weeks ahead of time, only the top teams might switch at the last moment.

Schools are fiscally dependent on knowing how many and when their home games will be.

Years ago I sketched out a proposal for the Big Ten to have the games the week BEFORE rivalry week as "flexible" games to try and get top teams who missed each other a chance to play one another and reduce (greatly) the chance that tie-breakers rely on any ranking system. The games had pre-determined home teams with visiting teams determined by algorithm 14 days ahead. There was also 2 more "visiting" teams than "home" teams and often the best two visiting teams played at a neutral site. I have the sim data somewhere, but it was something like 99% of tie-breakers were determined by head-to-head (though that, was 9 conference games with 14 teams, not 8 with 16).
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2022 08:04 PM by Crayton.)
05-12-2022 08:01 PM
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Crayton Offline
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RE: Divisionless Scheduling
A note that the regular season doesn’t technically end until Army-Navy weekend. The SEC could do their flex/semi week the first weekend of December and their Championship on Army-Navy. The SEC likely won’t consider it until after the current playoff contract expires and likely wouldn’t pull the trigger unless the next format includes an automatic spot for their champ in NYD semis.
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2022 07:16 AM by Crayton.)
05-18-2022 07:15 AM
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Soobahk40050 Offline
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RE: Divisionless Scheduling
(05-18-2022 07:15 AM)Crayton Wrote:  A note that the regular season doesn’t technically end until Army-Navy weekend. The SEC could do their flex/semi week the first weekend of December and their Championship on Army-Navy. The SEC likely won’t consider it until after the current playoff contract expires and likely wouldn’t pull the trigger unless the next format includes an automatic spot for their champ in NYD semis.

There are some options there, but I think trying to play at the same time as Army-Navy would not go over well, and as it has traditionally been the last game of the regular season, playing after it might not either. Playing before puts it at a weird time slot, unless it became a Friday night game, which also seems weird.

But traditions are going by the wayside left and right.
05-18-2022 09:33 AM
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RE: Divisionless Scheduling
(05-11-2022 10:54 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  According to this article, virtually every conference could do away with divisions.

The Spun

I Iike the idea of divisionless scheduling. As with broadcast media, matchups need to be compelling. However, most programs want clearly "beatable" opponents in the scheduling mix, and don't desire a scheduled slate comparatively more difficult than their peers.

That said, each school having a consistent "core" of scheduled opponents looks preferable. Compatibility is important, even if some conference members have comparatively softer slates. Members such as Vanderbilt, for example, need a reasonable "chance" to win a few. There's the challenge.
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2022 11:13 AM by OdinFrigg.)
05-18-2022 11:13 AM
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Crayton Offline
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RE: Divisionless Scheduling
(05-18-2022 11:13 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  
(05-11-2022 10:54 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  According to this article, virtually every conference could do away with divisions.

The Spun

I Iike the idea of divisionless scheduling. As with broadcast media, matchups need to be compelling. However, most programs want clearly "beatable" opponents in the scheduling mix, and don't desire a scheduled slate comparatively more difficult than their peers.

That said, each school having a consistent "core" of scheduled opponents looks preferable. Compatibility is important, even if some conference members have comparatively softer slates. Members such as Vanderbilt, for example, need a reasonable "chance" to win a few. There's the challenge.

I think they’ll give teams 3 permanent rivals (likely in a 4-team division) and then play 4 of the other 12 (likely all from a paired 4-team division). This way, Alabama and Vanderbilt will share 7/8ths of a schedule each year.

That leaves 1 game to be played against a team of equitable strength. Like the ACC conversation, the pairing rights to this game could be sold to ESPN. The SEC could insist that 1 or 2 of those 8 “8th” games be Auburn-Georgia and maybe A&M-Texas. The others (LSU vs. Bama/Florida/Oklahoma?) could be given to ESPN to choose.
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2022 02:24 PM by Crayton.)
05-18-2022 02:22 PM
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RE: Divisionless Scheduling
I’m sure I’m not the first with this idea, but I like a pod and group setup.

Football - 9 total games.

Play each team on your line (pod) every year.

2 from each other pod by Group. Alternate groups each year

Basketball - 18 games. Home and away. Play the opposite groupings as in football (e.g., if you play Group A in football, you play Group B in hoops).

Pod Group A - Group B
1. USC, FL - GA, TN
2. AL, Vandy - AUB, KY
3. LSU, Miss - Miss St, aTm
4. Tex, Miz - Ark, OU

That way you play 3 major rivals in both football and basketball every year. You play EVERYONE in either football or basketball every year.

You play everyone in each sport at least every other year. States with 2 schools are split across groups so you get to play someone from AL, MS, TN, and TX every season. Both groups have BIG brands attractive to TV.

I suspect that as an outsider I’m overlooking an annual matchup that some fan bases really value. But I do think that this is a good way to get maximum exposure, lots of good games every year, and even if you don’t see a key rival every year in football, you’d at least get them in basketball.
05-18-2022 07:19 PM
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GoBuckeyes1047 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Divisionless Scheduling
I forget who once suggested it on the main realignment forum, but someone suggested dividing the teams into their 4 pods of 4 teams, you play those 3 teams annually. Then each team gets a protected rival from each of the other 3 pods annually. After that, rotate the pods every year or 2 as suggested for 9 conference games.
05-19-2022 07:55 AM
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Soobahk40050 Offline
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RE: Divisionless Scheduling
(05-19-2022 07:55 AM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  I forget who once suggested it on the main realignment forum, but someone suggested dividing the teams into their 4 pods of 4 teams, you play those 3 teams annually. Then each team gets a protected rival from each of the other 3 pods annually. After that, rotate the pods every year or 2 as suggested for 9 conference games.

That would mean rotating through the league once every 6 years, right? I would think that the simple 3-6 which rotates through the league every 4 years (home and away) would be better.

Also, based on games played (which I know is biased because of divisions), TN's top 3 are: Vandy, KY, Alabama... and Ole Miss is four and Auburn is 5. I forgot how many of TN's "rivals" were the western schools.
05-19-2022 11:34 AM
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Crayton Offline
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RE: Divisionless Scheduling
(05-18-2022 07:19 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  I’m sure I’m not the first with this idea, but I like a pod and group setup.

Football - 9 total games.

Play each team on your line (pod) every year.

2 from each other pod by Group. Alternate groups each year

Basketball - 18 games. Home and away. Play the opposite groupings as in football (e.g., if you play Group A in football, you play Group B in hoops).

Pod Group A - Group B
1. USC, FL - GA, TN
2. AL, Vandy - AUB, KY
3. LSU, Miss - Miss St, aTm
4. Tex, Miz - Ark, OU

That way you play 3 major rivals in both football and basketball every year. You play EVERYONE in either football or basketball every year.

You play everyone in each sport at least every other year. States with 2 schools are split across groups so you get to play someone from AL, MS, TN, and TX every season. Both groups have BIG brands attractive to TV.

I suspect that as an outsider I’m overlooking an annual matchup that some fan bases really value. But I do think that this is a good way to get maximum exposure, lots of good games every year, and even if you don’t see a key rival every year in football, you’d at least get them in basketball.

It is new to me. I think it can be generalized to allow more rivalry flexibility. Your main parameters seem to have been (a) 9 games, (b) maintain A & B round-robins, © geographic spread of play.

© unimportant. The Gators will play in Mississippi every other year regardless of if they play Ole Miss and Miss St on the same years or on opposite years.

(a) sure, let us presume 9

(b) this one is interesting because it wasn't until I rolled your model in my head a bit that I realized it could be done with 4 "lines"; I had previously thought 3 was the max. Here are some generalizations that can be made:

(1) Every team's 3 rivals do not need to be on the same line, they can be from anywhere provided they still play everyone on their "half" of the line and rivalries form a mirror with the other half of their line. For example, say USC and FL play each other and, for their other 4 rivalries, play a team in 1B, 1B, 2B, and 4A. This means GA and TN must, collectively, have rivals in 1A, 1A, 2A, and 4B.

(2) The pod/line halves need not all be 2 teams, though they do need to be even between A and B. They can be as big as 4 teams (all with each other as rivals) or as small as 1 team. There is a rivalry caveat when a half-line is as small as 1 team, that they must have a pair of rivals from opposite halves of the same line (1A, 1A, 3B is not acceptable but 1A, 1B, 3B is).

Here is another stab with your model using a few of the above tweaks and attempting to conform a popular SEC matrix to it. External rivals in parentheses.

Pod Group A - Group B
1. Tex(A&M),Okl(Miz),Ark(Miz) - A&M(Tex),LSU(MS),MSU(MS)
2. Miz(Okl,Ark),KY(Ala,Vdy) - MS(MSU,LSU),Vdy(KY,Ten)
3. Ala(Ten,KY),Aub(UF,UGA) - Ten(Ala,Vdy),USC(UF,UGA)
4. UF(Aub,USC,UGA) - UGA(Aub,USC,UF)

Get most (all?) of the big ones with this. And no possibility of 3+ undefeated teams. Also get my preferred 3 rivals for Florida.
(This post was last modified: 05-28-2022 01:28 PM by Crayton.)
05-20-2022 05:38 AM
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