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RamyEMU Offline
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Post: #61
RE: NIL Deals
(04-25-2022 05:24 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  Realistically I think this is where it will end up. A top tier of "college" teams like Alabama, Ohio State, USC, etc. operating athletic programs as businesses, much like the NFL and NBA.

The lower tier can then operate much like before with academic scholarships being the primary reward for players and an opportunity to transfer to the big-time programs if their performance enables them to do so. It will enable a separate championship, not one like the CFP, but yet a viewable one that will generate some interest for guys like us. Certainly enough for an ESPN contract.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/...ar-AAWzwcc

Good article and thoughts, Jerry! I think you are right that this is the way things will unfold. D1 football already has two subdivisions between the championship series and the bowl series. Well, now there is going to be three subdivisions (miniNFL, bowl series, and championship series) OR the G5 programs will drop down.

I still think it is a shame though in the sense that the MAC closed a lot of gaps in football in recent years, with NIU and then WMU each breaking into the elite bowls and even EMU able to get wins against Big Ten opponents. With the way ESPN (excessively) proliferated, there was a lot of exposure for these programs which likely helped.

It is pretty clear that the liberal execution of NIL is likely to reverse those gains for EMU and the MAC. What is less clear at this point: is whatever interest people had in ESPN’s midweek MACtion going to completely go away? Are the mini-NFL programs going to play the MAC in out of conference or do we lose those essential payouts? Everything could come crashing down for us.

The GOOD NEWS is, EMU and MAC will have more access to the 3 star recruits- maybe even some 4 stars- as the mini-NFL programs will devote more effort and available slots to guaranteed production from proven transfers. We lose them after a couple years, but might be better overall better teams we have as well.

So still to be seen how this all pans out. What I really don’t know is how does this all impact the non-pay sports like track and field, swimming, etc…
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2022 08:42 AM by RamyEMU.)
04-26-2022 08:34 AM
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emu steve Offline
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Post: #62
RE: NIL Deals
Couple of thoughts:

1). Generally I agree with the themes you developed. Couple points of disagreement which I don't think have been made before...

2). First, and most importantly, NIL is the biggest threat to MBB. Why? Should be obvious that one or two star players is a 'game changer.' CFB isn't really dependent on one or two players, except say QB. MBB is say a rotation of say 8 players. CFB is a rotation of say 35 - 40 players (because of liberal substations esp. at DL, WR, RB, DB, etc.). And as discussed, MBB but not CFB, is kind of a 'plug and play' sport. There are a lot of advantages to a CFB not picking up and transferring every year or two.

3). Second, we need to be careful about all of these star rankings. 247sports probably inflates prospects by sometimes one star. Everyone loves these inflated ratings, just like most love inflated grades in school. The player feels good. The school loves to boast of all these 3-star recruits. Posters love it too. It feeds into their 'sunshine' narrative of their new recruits, much like we'll see this weekend with the NFL draft. Sad, in a sense, Rivals rates many/most 3-star 247sports prospects as 2-stars. and of course, who likes that except the 'purests?'

(note on grades: I don't believe SAT and ACT test scores have gone up over the years BUT grades have risen significantly in high school (and college). How do we explain it?
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2022 09:01 AM by emu steve.)
04-26-2022 08:55 AM
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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #63
RE: NIL Deals
(04-26-2022 08:34 AM)RamyEMU Wrote:  
(04-25-2022 05:24 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  Realistically I think this is where it will end up. A top tier of "college" teams like Alabama, Ohio State, USC, etc. operating athletic programs as businesses, much like the NFL and NBA.

The lower tier can then operate much like before with academic scholarships being the primary reward for players and an opportunity to transfer to the big-time programs if their performance enables them to do so. It will enable a separate championship, not one like the CFP, but yet a viewable one that will generate some interest for guys like us. Certainly enough for an ESPN contract.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/...ar-AAWzwcc

Good article and thoughts, Jerry! I think you are right that this is the way things will unfold. D1 football already has two subdivisions between the championship series and the bowl series. Well, now there is going to be three subdivisions (miniNFL, bowl series, and championship series) OR the G5 programs will drop down.

I still think it is a shame though in the sense that the MAC closed a lot of gaps in football in recent years, with NIU and then WMU each breaking into the elite bowls and even EMU able to get wins against Big Ten opponents. With the way ESPN (excessively) proliferated, there was a lot of exposure for these programs which likely helped.

It is pretty clear that the liberal execution of NIL is likely to reverse those gains for EMU and the MAC. What is less clear at this point: is whatever interest people had in ESPN’s midweek MACtion going to completely go away? Are the mini-NFL programs going to play the MAC in out of conference or do we lose those essential payouts? Everything could come crashing down for us.

The GOOD NEWS is, EMU and MAC will have more access to the 3 star recruits- maybe even some 4 stars- as the mini-NFL programs will devote more effort and available slots to guaranteed production from proven transfers. We lose them after a couple years, but might be better overall better teams we have as well.

So still to be seen how this all pans out. What I really don’t know is how does this all impact the non-pay sports like track and field, swimming, etc…

P5 schools still play FCS schools. I dont see MAC payday games going away.
04-26-2022 09:28 AM
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Bob Wickersham Offline
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Post: #64
RE: NIL Deals
(04-26-2022 07:00 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(04-26-2022 06:45 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  
(04-25-2022 06:32 PM)Ypsitownie Wrote:  
(04-25-2022 04:05 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  
(04-25-2022 02:55 PM)Ypsitownie Wrote:  I suspect the reason coaching salaries are so out of control is because it's one of the few things college programs can actually spend money on. Most of them aren't worth much at all. Even many of the successful coaches are only successful because they're good recruiters or got lucky. Why hire a "top recruiter" for $10m/yr when you can hire a program manager and recruit with NIL? The new system is gross, but hopefully it will correct some of the power imbalance between exorbitantly paid coaches and broke college kids on scholie.

Remember the NIL is from rich donors who will disguise the agreements thru business contracts. The school “wink” has nothing to do with the NIzl offer.

The interesting thing here is a small school could attract big time athletes if there are some rich alumni from said school who are sports fans :-)

The $10m/yr is already coming from those rich alumni. There might be a total increase in spending, but a lot of that NIL money will just move from alumni donating and demanding the flavor-of-the-week coach to direct roster recruitment.

Back to the original topic. Long term I think the Kansas and Oklahomas of the league might be screwed. Between coaching salaries and facilities P5 football was expensive, but could only inflate so much. Essentially, there was a payroll cap of (obscene coach salary - $1) and that just got blown away. Moving forward, they have deep pocket alumni willing to donate payroll and call it a NIL endorsement with every car dealership in Lawrence or Norman. However, big market alumni can create an entire industry around it. The NIL for the star QB in LA or NY might actually be a sound investment even without the alumni buying wins angle. 2035 NC game will be UCLA v Rutgers. You heard it here first.
Except people in southern California and metro NYC are not college football crazy, rich donors would have no need to throw millions at kids where there is not a huge demand. Look for Texas to eventually dominate. Lots of rich alums and an insane high school/college football culture.

USC begs to differ
Nah. USC fans have bigger interests in life other than worshipping 18 year old athletes. Your over-the-top college football nutjobs are in the deep south (SEC), Texas, Columbus, OH, and rural Michigan (the dreaded Walmart Wolverine).
04-26-2022 05:09 PM
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Jerry Weaver Offline
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Post: #65
RE: NIL Deals
(04-26-2022 08:34 AM)RamyEMU Wrote:  
(04-25-2022 05:24 PM)Jerry Weaver Wrote:  Realistically I think this is where it will end up. A top tier of "college" teams like Alabama, Ohio State, USC, etc. operating athletic programs as businesses, much like the NFL and NBA.

The lower tier can then operate much like before with academic scholarships being the primary reward for players and an opportunity to transfer to the big-time programs if their performance enables them to do so. It will enable a separate championship, not one like the CFP, but yet a viewable one that will generate some interest for guys like us. Certainly enough for an ESPN contract.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/...ar-AAWzwcc

Good article and thoughts, Jerry! I think you are right that this is the way things will unfold. D1 football already has two subdivisions between the championship series and the bowl series. Well, now there is going to be three subdivisions (miniNFL, bowl series, and championship series) OR the G5 programs will drop down.

I still think it is a shame though in the sense that the MAC closed a lot of gaps in football in recent years, with NIU and then WMU each breaking into the elite bowls and even EMU able to get wins against Big Ten opponents. With the way ESPN (excessively) proliferated, there was a lot of exposure for these programs which likely helped.

It is pretty clear that the liberal execution of NIL is likely to reverse those gains for EMU and the MAC. What is less clear at this point: is whatever interest people had in ESPN’s midweek MACtion going to completely go away? Are the mini-NFL programs going to play the MAC in out of conference or do we lose those essential payouts? Everything could come crashing down for us.

The GOOD NEWS is, EMU and MAC will have more access to the 3 star recruits- maybe even some 4 stars- as the mini-NFL programs will devote more effort and available slots to guaranteed production from proven transfers. We lose them after a couple years, but might be better overall better teams we have as well.

So still to be seen how this all pans out. What I really don’t know is how does this all impact the non-pay sports like track and field, swimming, etc…

Ramy I think there will be a little money available to a select few of the Olympic sport athletes. Attractive females may show up in some advertisements. A 100 yard NCAA champ like Haisley Crawford could get some local endorsements. A local car dealer who may have been alumni wrestler may pump some money into a program. At the end of the day, however, I see NIL having only a minor impact on these programs. My take only.
04-26-2022 05:20 PM
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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #66
RE: NIL Deals
(04-26-2022 05:09 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  
(04-26-2022 07:00 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(04-26-2022 06:45 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  
(04-25-2022 06:32 PM)Ypsitownie Wrote:  
(04-25-2022 04:05 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  Remember the NIL is from rich donors who will disguise the agreements thru business contracts. The school “wink” has nothing to do with the NIzl offer.

The interesting thing here is a small school could attract big time athletes if there are some rich alumni from said school who are sports fans :-)

The $10m/yr is already coming from those rich alumni. There might be a total increase in spending, but a lot of that NIL money will just move from alumni donating and demanding the flavor-of-the-week coach to direct roster recruitment.

Back to the original topic. Long term I think the Kansas and Oklahomas of the league might be screwed. Between coaching salaries and facilities P5 football was expensive, but could only inflate so much. Essentially, there was a payroll cap of (obscene coach salary - $1) and that just got blown away. Moving forward, they have deep pocket alumni willing to donate payroll and call it a NIL endorsement with every car dealership in Lawrence or Norman. However, big market alumni can create an entire industry around it. The NIL for the star QB in LA or NY might actually be a sound investment even without the alumni buying wins angle. 2035 NC game will be UCLA v Rutgers. You heard it here first.
Except people in southern California and metro NYC are not college football crazy, rich donors would have no need to throw millions at kids where there is not a huge demand. Look for Texas to eventually dominate. Lots of rich alums and an insane high school/college football culture.

USC begs to differ
Nah. USC fans have bigger interests in life other than worshipping 18 year old athletes. Your over-the-top college football nutjobs are in the deep south (SEC), Texas, Columbus, OH, and rural Michigan (the dreaded Walmart Wolverine).

No but offering to hang out with celebrity fans is enough to entice a pretty good team - the ones from the early 00s for example.
04-27-2022 06:52 AM
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Bob Wickersham Offline
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Post: #67
RE: NIL Deals
(04-27-2022 06:52 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(04-26-2022 05:09 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  
(04-26-2022 07:00 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(04-26-2022 06:45 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  
(04-25-2022 06:32 PM)Ypsitownie Wrote:  The $10m/yr is already coming from those rich alumni. There might be a total increase in spending, but a lot of that NIL money will just move from alumni donating and demanding the flavor-of-the-week coach to direct roster recruitment.

Back to the original topic. Long term I think the Kansas and Oklahomas of the league might be screwed. Between coaching salaries and facilities P5 football was expensive, but could only inflate so much. Essentially, there was a payroll cap of (obscene coach salary - $1) and that just got blown away. Moving forward, they have deep pocket alumni willing to donate payroll and call it a NIL endorsement with every car dealership in Lawrence or Norman. However, big market alumni can create an entire industry around it. The NIL for the star QB in LA or NY might actually be a sound investment even without the alumni buying wins angle. 2035 NC game will be UCLA v Rutgers. You heard it here first.
Except people in southern California and metro NYC are not college football crazy, rich donors would have no need to throw millions at kids where there is not a huge demand. Look for Texas to eventually dominate. Lots of rich alums and an insane high school/college football culture.

USC begs to differ
Nah. USC fans have bigger interests in life other than worshipping 18 year old athletes. Your over-the-top college football nutjobs are in the deep south (SEC), Texas, Columbus, OH, and rural Michigan (the dreaded Walmart Wolverine).

No but offering to hang out with celebrity fans is enough to entice a pretty good team - the ones from the early 00s for example.
I guess. The Reggie Bush years when USC was NIL before NIL was a thing.
04-27-2022 06:59 AM
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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #68
RE: NIL Deals
(04-27-2022 06:59 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  
(04-27-2022 06:52 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(04-26-2022 05:09 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  
(04-26-2022 07:00 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(04-26-2022 06:45 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  Except people in southern California and metro NYC are not college football crazy, rich donors would have no need to throw millions at kids where there is not a huge demand. Look for Texas to eventually dominate. Lots of rich alums and an insane high school/college football culture.

USC begs to differ
Nah. USC fans have bigger interests in life other than worshipping 18 year old athletes. Your over-the-top college football nutjobs are in the deep south (SEC), Texas, Columbus, OH, and rural Michigan (the dreaded Walmart Wolverine).

No but offering to hang out with celebrity fans is enough to entice a pretty good team - the ones from the early 00s for example.
I guess. The Reggie Bush years when USC was NIL before NIL was a thing.

USC is a sleeping giant.
04-27-2022 07:31 AM
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Bob Wickersham Offline
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Post: #69
RE: NIL Deals
(04-27-2022 07:31 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(04-27-2022 06:59 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  
(04-27-2022 06:52 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(04-26-2022 05:09 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  
(04-26-2022 07:00 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  USC begs to differ
Nah. USC fans have bigger interests in life other than worshipping 18 year old athletes. Your over-the-top college football nutjobs are in the deep south (SEC), Texas, Columbus, OH, and rural Michigan (the dreaded Walmart Wolverine).

No but offering to hang out with celebrity fans is enough to entice a pretty good team - the ones from the early 00s for example.
I guess. The Reggie Bush years when USC was NIL before NIL was a thing.

USC is a sleeping giant.
Agree. Lots of untapped potential...UCLA should also be much better in today's climate.
04-27-2022 05:12 PM
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Luckeyone Offline
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Post: #70
RE: NIL Deals
I’m not a big fan of these coaches making this ridiculous amount of money. Call it sour grapes or whatever you want but I think these salaries have gotten out of hand. Certainly a good coach institutes many factors into his program to WIN but let’s face it, great players play an even larger role i basketball. I guess this is the reason why players deserve NIL deals.

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiECQ...id=US%3Aen

In fact since coaches can change schools annually, we might as well as let players too providing they have the credit hours.
05-01-2022 12:57 PM
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Jerry Weaver Offline
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Post: #71
RE: NIL Deals
(05-01-2022 12:57 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  I’m not a big fan of these coaches making this ridiculous amount of money. Call it sour grapes or whatever you want but I think these salaries have gotten out of hand. Certainly a good coach institutes many factors into his program to WIN but let’s face it, great players play an even larger role i basketball. I guess this is the reason why players deserve NIL deals.

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiECQ...id=US%3Aen

In fact since coaches can change schools annually, we might as well as let players too providing they have the credit hours.

Lucky great players do win the games, but the coaches build the programs that repeatedly get great players. Alabama has been the epitome of success in college football for the past 14 years. No player, however, has spent more than four seasons there, the common denominator of success is clearly Nick Saban and I suspect that Alabama would regard the money they are paying him as dollars well spent.

If the NCAA is going to allow the procession of its athletes into a quasi-pro like state, why not do the same for coaches? An NFL coach under contract, cannot leave his current team like Brian Kelly and Lincoln Riley did this year with a simple contract buyout. Bill Belichick, Bill Parcells, Jon Guden, Herm Edwards and Mike Holmgren left NFL teams to another, but compensation was required for them to do so. Why not require Alabama to pay Buffalo $2M or so besides buying out his contract, to snare Nate Oats to coach basketball? NCAA coaches have had it too good, for too long. Oats had a "safety net" when he signed an extension with Buffalo, he was in a no-lose situation. That needs to change in my opinion.

Now I'm going to get kinda crazy. Why not offer athletes a defined term of scholarship? Yes, a contract of sorts as we are emulating the pro sports model. EMU recruits a Mo Njie and offers him a one-year scholarship. He then is free to transfer immediately after his first season. If EMU, however, signs him to four years, Mo would need to sit out a season before he transfers, the price of breaking his contract. Of course, if Mo is a dud, EMU is obligated to provide him with eight semesters of scholarship benefits.

Hey, I'm not embracing the relaxed transfer rules and NIL, I'm just thinking how to live equitably within them.
05-01-2022 05:34 PM
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Luckeyone Offline
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Post: #72
RE: NIL Deals
Looks like Prime is with the rest of the mid majors


https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiZ2h...id=US%3Aen
05-03-2022 01:31 PM
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Luckeyone Offline
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Post: #73
RE: NIL Deals
This is interesting, there’s an app for athletes to help them with NiL deals.

https://www.mlive.com/sports/2022/05/how...utType=amp
05-04-2022 02:14 PM
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emu steve Offline
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RE: NIL Deals
05-05-2022 09:19 PM
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Luckeyone Offline
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RE: NIL Deals
05-06-2022 05:57 AM
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dansplaining Offline
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Post: #76
RE: NIL Deals
(05-05-2022 09:19 PM)emu steve Wrote:  https://twitter.com/RossDellenger/status...D0VL_UF-eQ

watch the NCAA get promptly get sued for this
05-06-2022 07:01 AM
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RamyEMU Offline
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Post: #77
RE: NIL Deals
(05-06-2022 07:01 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(05-05-2022 09:19 PM)emu steve Wrote:  https://twitter.com/RossDellenger/status...D0VL_UF-eQ

watch the NCAA get promptly get sued for this

If so, watch the NCAA win this time around… It is good that these amateur athletes have rights to their NILs. It does not mean boosters have a free for all to influence the recruiting process.
05-06-2022 08:20 AM
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Luckeyone Offline
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Post: #78
RE: NIL Deals
(05-06-2022 08:20 AM)RamyEMU Wrote:  
(05-06-2022 07:01 AM)dansplaining Wrote:  
(05-05-2022 09:19 PM)emu steve Wrote:  https://twitter.com/RossDellenger/status...D0VL_UF-eQ

watch the NCAA get promptly get sued for this

If so, watch the NCAA win this time around… It is good that these amateur athletes have rights to their NILs. It does not mean boosters have a free for all to influence the recruiting process.

Good post Ramy! I listened to Hunter Dickinson interview on 1050 am yesterday and he stated several of his friends at neighboring schools are inticing recruits to sign with them based on NIL. I believe the NCAA does not have enough attorneys to stomp out the sketchy recruiting that is underway.
05-06-2022 09:09 AM
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RE: NIL Deals
05-12-2022 12:52 PM
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Luckeyone Offline
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Post: #80
RE: NIL Deals
SMU showing that G5 schools can uplift their athletic programs using NIL

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEKY...id=US%3Aen
05-26-2022 11:05 PM
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