(07-27-2022 03:49 PM)2017WithPep Wrote:  

(07-25-2022 08:27 AM)A Quest Called Tribe Wrote:  In theory the cost would be shared by some combination of private giving, student fees, the athletic department, and the school of music.

Minimal though it may be, the current pep band must have some sort of budget for travel, uniforms/instruments/equipment etc. How is it currently paid for? Member fees? University support? Private donors? All of the above? The point being, we may be starting from a low number, but not zero.

Marching bands are fun and imo hugely enhance the gameday experience. If there was a fundraising effort to start one, I would certainly open my wallet (whether moths subsequently flew out, well, that's none of your business).

(07-27-2022 11:05 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(07-26-2022 06:19 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  Student body and demographics definitely also play a role in this. For W&M to have a 500 person marching band, you'd need basically 10% of the student body to join, which just isn't feasible.

I was in a marching band in high school, and then pep band my freshman year. Even pep band wound up being too big of a time commitment for me - if a game started at 4pm we were probably starting to warm up around 1pm, would play at the tailgates, and then would stay until the end of the game, play some songs as everyone left, and by the time we were done it was well after 8pm. With how many entertainment options there were on campus that just wasn't worth it to me personally.

We don’t need a 500 person band, no one does. That’s just a mob with instruments.

A band in the 80 to 120 range would work. Lots of reasons on here why we don’t have one but I still don’t understand how nearly every high school in Virginia can support one and we can’t.

Somebody in the power circle needs to push for it and based on most of the current players in power positions at W&M, I doubt they see any benefit.

I agree with the need only for a smaller band - although JMU's band is legendary in marching band circles. Just like we don't want to match the size of JMU's student body (insert weight joke here), we don't need to match the size of the band.

With that said I really appreciate Scotty's perspective. Given my history degree I can't believe I didn't look back to just see how it worked before. The point about course credit as opposed to pay is possible. Especially if the students get an actual grade instead of just pass/fail. I would have loved a .1-.2 bump to my GPA.

I can give some insight into costs. As indicated by my name I graduated in 2017, so the information may be outdated:

Instruments were mostly brought by students, though some of the larger instruments were owned by the school. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean we could borrow all of those for marching band. It's one thing to borrow a handful for one evening a week and a Saturday afternoon. It's another to constantly need 15 for a whole semester. The little equipment we had, like the lyersto hold music, were bought with donations. I believe the one away football game and CAA tournament were covered by the school.

The rugbies were paid for by $40 membership dues the first year. Based on a quick search online, marching band uniforms can cost about $300 each. So take 300 and multiply by at least 50 to be conservative (although that is not necessarily a yearly cost, as they can be used multiple years). Add some expensive instruments, paying a band director, more equipment...you see how it adds up. Definitely not much compared to certain budgets, but still. I do get how it seems odd that high schools can somehow figure this out.

1. I concur with Pep’s assessment of the JMU marching “mob”. I’ll assume Sitting Bull has never seen or heard the Marching Royal Dukes. They’re impressive and much more than a mob.

2. If you’ve attended a football game at Elon you may remember they too have a marching band. Fancy uniforms, flag twirlers, all the stuff you’d expect to see...except they had fewer than 30 musicians. Very small band by any measure, and with around 6,000 undergrads very close to W&M numbers.

3. As for the “how do the high schools do it” question, most high school bands receive funding (beyond what the school provides, if any) from their band parents/boosters groups. Back in the day, at my school (and the others in our district) the band parents “owned” (i.e., not just staffed) the concession stands at football and basketball games. Big money because the labor was free. Band kids rarely had to pay for trips, and we usually had top-notch equipment. Fruit sales and holiday gift wrapping booths at the mall were other ways of raising funds…but that was a much different time.

(07-27-2022 05:16 PM)ScottyB757 Wrote:  

(07-27-2022 03:49 PM)2017WithPep Wrote:  

(07-25-2022 08:27 AM)A Quest Called Tribe Wrote:  In theory the cost would be shared by some combination of private giving, student fees, the athletic department, and the school of music.

Minimal though it may be, the current pep band must have some sort of budget for travel, uniforms/instruments/equipment etc. How is it currently paid for? Member fees? University support? Private donors? All of the above? The point being, we may be starting from a low number, but not zero.

Marching bands are fun and imo hugely enhance the gameday experience. If there was a fundraising effort to start one, I would certainly open my wallet (whether moths subsequently flew out, well, that's none of your business).

(07-27-2022 11:05 AM)Sitting bull Wrote:  

(07-26-2022 06:19 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  Student body and demographics definitely also play a role in this. For W&M to have a 500 person marching band, you'd need basically 10% of the student body to join, which just isn't feasible.

I was in a marching band in high school, and then pep band my freshman year. Even pep band wound up being too big of a time commitment for me - if a game started at 4pm we were probably starting to warm up around 1pm, would play at the tailgates, and then would stay until the end of the game, play some songs as everyone left, and by the time we were done it was well after 8pm. With how many entertainment options there were on campus that just wasn't worth it to me personally.

We don’t need a 500 person band, no one does. That’s just a mob with instruments.

A band in the 80 to 120 range would work. Lots of reasons on here why we don’t have one but I still don’t understand how nearly every high school in Virginia can support one and we can’t.

Somebody in the power circle needs to push for it and based on most of the current players in power positions at W&M, I doubt they see any benefit.

I agree with the need only for a smaller band - although JMU's band is legendary in marching band circles. Just like we don't want to match the size of JMU's student body (insert weight joke here), we don't need to match the size of the band.

With that said I really appreciate Scotty's perspective. Given my history degree I can't believe I didn't look back to just see how it worked before. The point about course credit as opposed to pay is possible. Especially if the students get an actual grade instead of just pass/fail. I would have loved a .1-.2 bump to my GPA.

I can give some insight into costs. As indicated by my name I graduated in 2017, so the information may be outdated:

Instruments were mostly brought by students, though some of the larger instruments were owned by the school. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean we could borrow all of those for marching band. It's one thing to borrow a handful for one evening a week and a Saturday afternoon. It's another to constantly need 15 for a whole semester. The little equipment we had, like the lyersto hold music, were bought with donations. I believe the one away football game and CAA tournament were covered by the school.

The rugbies were paid for by $40 membership dues the first year. Based on a quick search online, marching band uniforms can cost about $300 each. So take 300 and multiply by at least 50 to be conservative (although that is not necessarily a yearly cost, as they can be used multiple years). Add some expensive instruments, paying a band director, more equipment...you see how it adds up. Definitely not much compared to certain budgets, but still. I do get how it seems odd that high schools can somehow figure this out.

1. I concur with Pep’s assessment of the JMU marching “mob”. I’ll assume Sitting Bull has never seen or heard the Marching Royal Dukes. They’re impressive and much more than a mob.

2. If you’ve attended a football game at Elon you may remember they too have a marching band. Fancy uniforms, flag twirlers, all the stuff you’d expect to see...except they had fewer than 30 musicians. Very small band by any measure, and with around 6,000 undergrads very close to W&M numbers.

3. As for the “how do the high schools do it” question, most high school bands receive funding (beyond what the school provides, if any) from their band parents/boosters groups. Back in the day, at my school (and the others in our district) the band parents “owned” (i.e., not just staffed) the concession stands at football and basketball games. Big money because the labor was free. Band kids rarely had to pay for trips, and we usually had top-notch equipment. Fruit sales and holiday gift wrapping booths at the mall were other ways of raising funds…but that was a much different time.

I never mentioned JMUs band. I think they are about 300. The comment was about a 500 member band. That’s just an absurd number and totally irrelevant to what W&M could or would do.

I don’t think size is the key anyway, not for me anyway. A good marching band has precision. Auburn is a great example. Another would be the Highty Tightys at Tech which IMO is a better marching band than the much larger Marching Virginians.

This is one of last years pregames at Lehigh. They even play our alma mater at the end.

This is more our speed, 97 members, hence the Marching 97. It sounds like they are traditional, student operated and provided a budget by the University.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-QRUrUTO0K8

Or you can dream really big. Auburn. Nobody does it better.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I69NNdYRORE