…they were able to convince Gonzaga, St Mary’s and San Francisco to join them? That’s a pretty stellar league and for scheduling you could do divisions:

Pacific: St Mary’s, San Francisco, San Jose St, Fresno St, San Diego St, Nevada, UNLV

Mountain: Gonzaga, Boise St, Utah St, Wyoming, Colorado St, AFA, UNM

San Francisco has 1 NCAA Tournament in 24 years and is probably about to lose their coach.

Saint Mary’s is the only non-Gonzaga school to consistently make March Madness, and it’s all under one coach.

Gonzaga has already turned down the MWC.

WCC schools love the WCC institutional fit.

MWC schools love schools who increase their FB value - unless it’s Gonzaga, who already turned them down.

(03-14-2022 02:31 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  …they were able to convince Gonzaga, St Mary’s and San Francisco to join them? That’s a pretty stellar league and for scheduling you could do divisions:

Pacific: St Mary’s, San Francisco, San Jose St, Fresno St, San Diego St, Nevada, UNLV

Mountain: Gonzaga, Boise St, Utah St, Wyoming, Colorado St, AFA, UNM

Probably 6 or 7 this season, unless you assume adding St. Mary's, USF, and Gonzaga would've caused additional losses for Wyoming, CSU, Boise, and SDSU that kept one or more of them out of the tournament, or vice-versa for the current WCC teams. Wyoming was one of the last 4 in so I could see them getting bumped in that scenario. I don't think that new MWC would likely get 6 teams in annually though.

(03-14-2022 02:38 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  San Francisco has 1 NCAA Tournament in 24 years and is probably about to lose their coach.

Saint Mary’s is the only non-Gonzaga school to consistently make March Madness, and it’s all under one coach.

Gonzaga has already turned down the MWC.

WCC schools love the WCC institutional fit.

MWC schools love schools who increase their FB value - unless it’s Gonzaga, who already turned them down.

Who would you say the most consistent #3 WCC school is then?

(03-14-2022 02:31 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  …they were able to convince Gonzaga, St Mary’s and San Francisco to join them? That’s a pretty stellar league and for scheduling you could do divisions:

Pacific: St Mary’s, San Francisco, San Jose St, Fresno St, San Diego St, Nevada, UNLV

Mountain: Gonzaga, Boise St, Utah St, Wyoming, Colorado St, AFA, UNM

Gonzaga has it made in the WCC. The last thing they want to do is move into a football league where they have limited influence. Any scenario with Gonzaga going to the MWC will not work, starting with their close relationship with ESPN. The MWC is with Fox and CBS. There is no incentive for Gonzaga to leave and for St. Mary's and USF to follow.

The MWC has had a nice season, I am a little suspicious of how good they really are. San Diego State lost by 14 at Ann Arbor to Michigan, to 15 to USC on a neutral court and by six to BYU in Provo. They did beat St. Mary's by ten on a neutral court and beat Arizona State by two at home. Wyoming lost by 29 at Arizona. They trailed by 31 at halftime. Arizona has a great team, but that game was not close to being competitive.

Boise State lost 46-39 at home to Cal State Bakersfield, a team that went 8-19 and had a 278 Net Ranking. That is difficult to explain. Colorado State lost twice in conference to UNLV, at home by 14 and on the road by 21. Losses that hard to explain. UCLA beat UNLV be 22 in Las Vegas. I just think the MWC has to continue to get better in basketball to even consider inviting a school like Gonzaga. They need to prove that they can consistently get four schools in the tournament and win in the tournament. If you are Gonzaga, you are the No. 1 overall seed in college basketball playing in the WCC. Why leave?

(03-14-2022 04:54 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(03-14-2022 02:38 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  San Francisco has 1 NCAA Tournament in 24 years and is probably about to lose their coach.

Saint Mary’s is the only non-Gonzaga school to consistently make March Madness, and it’s all under one coach.

Gonzaga has already turned down the MWC.

WCC schools love the WCC institutional fit.

MWC schools love schools who increase their FB value - unless it’s Gonzaga, who already turned them down.

Who would you say the most consistent #3 WCC school is then?

I don’t think there is one. They’re all cyclical. San Francisco is really good this year. San Diego was really good in 2008. Pacific was really good as a Big West team in the 2000s.

(03-14-2022 02:31 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  …they were able to convince Gonzaga, St Mary’s and San Francisco to join them? That’s a pretty stellar league and for scheduling you could do divisions:

Pacific: St Mary’s, San Francisco, San Jose St, Fresno St, San Diego St, Nevada, UNLV

Mountain: Gonzaga, Boise St, Utah St, Wyoming, Colorado St, AFA, UNM

Probably the same number they would get if those schools didn't join. Those schools would just increase the number of losses existing members suffer, and with the possible exception of the Zags the other newbies would also have more losses than they have now in the WCC.

I think MWC with Gonzaga is a better conference than the current WCC, and certainly better than the WCC when BYU leaves, but I'm not sure it's better enough to make sense for Gonzaga. They have a pretty ideal situation for themselves in the WCC, and the quality of the WCC has generally been improving, though the bottom of the conference is still pretty bad.

Gonzaga will seriously consider the MWC once the following items happen.

1) The 1 million per year in NCAAT back payments from the MWC dry up, slated yet for a few more seasons.

2) A point in time when Gonzaga stops become a regular #1 or #2 seed and drops back to a #4 to #7 type program.

3) When Mark Few retires.

It's something Gonzaga I believe could entertain again in 5-10 years time once the WCC well runs dry.

(03-14-2022 04:54 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(03-14-2022 02:38 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  San Francisco has 1 NCAA Tournament in 24 years and is probably about to lose their coach.

Saint Mary’s is the only non-Gonzaga school to consistently make March Madness, and it’s all under one coach.

Gonzaga has already turned down the MWC.

WCC schools love the WCC institutional fit.

MWC schools love schools who increase their FB value - unless it’s Gonzaga, who already turned them down.

Who would you say the most consistent #3 WCC school is then?

There really is none.
Since 2013, only Gonzaga, StM, and BYU have earned berths. SF in 2022. So it would be BYU but they are leaving.

This year both the MWC and WCC had relatively good years (MWC 4 bids, WCC 3 bids) so I don't think Gonzaga to the MWC affects either conference's # of bids this season. It might affect the seeding. Unless Gonzaga had scheduled St. Mary's OOC, St. Mary's doesn't have that win over Gonzaga but almost certainly has the WCC regular season and tournament titles. Boise State loses the MWC regular season title and tournament title but might have gotten a crack at Gonzaga in Boise.

I think long term it would increase the level of MWC men's basketball and decrease the level of the WCC's. I don't know the effect of SOS is on the NET if any at all but we all know Quad 1 wins are important after Rutgers made the field. You give MWC teams an extra chance or two to beat Gonzaga that will help and there's a big difference between beating Gonzaga and beating say Wyoming on the road.

I don't know if the Selection Committee feels the same way but it isn't just that Rutgers won six Quad 1 games, three of those were vs. Purdue, Illinois, and Wisconsin (on the road), teams seeded on the top 4 lines in the NCAA Tournament. Notre Dame only won two Quad 1 games but one of them was Kentucky. Wyoming did make the NCAA Tournament but the reason I didn't have them in my Schmolik 64 was because while they had four Quad 1 wins the four Quad 1 wins were Colorado State, Boise State, Utah State, and Fresno State, the last two teams didn't even make the NCAA Tournament. I'm not impressed. I didn't have Notre Dame or Rutgers in my field either but this is saying Rutgers's ceiling is Purdue, Notre Dame's ceiling is Kentucky, and Wyoming's ceiling is Colorado State and Boise State. This is why the MWC could use Gonzaga and why the WCC would be hurt by losing them.

(03-14-2022 02:38 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  San Francisco has 1 NCAA Tournament in 24 years and is probably about to lose their coach.

Saint Mary’s is the only non-Gonzaga school to consistently make March Madness, and it’s all under one coach.

Gonzaga has already turned down the MWC.

WCC schools love the WCC institutional fit.

MWC schools love schools who increase their FB value - unless it’s Gonzaga, who already turned them down.

Excellent rebuttal. Totally agree with everything. Besides the MWC is a 4-bid league without the WCC institutions who would rather stay where they are. Adding the WCC schools wouldn't guarantee more bids anyway as the newcomers and the original MWC schools would start beating up on each other in conference play knocking them out of tournament contention with higher losing records and a reduction in their winning column too.

The real question is how many wins will the MWC get? I’m guessing zero.