https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/statu..._&ref_url=

We could see a split on the basketball side that could lead to 1-A and 1-AA just like football.
The leagues that might make the cut:
ACC
Big East
B1G
Big 12
Pac-12
SEC
A-10
AAC
MVC
MW (Hawaii joins in all sports)
WCC
Ivy
CAA
Southern
C-USA
Sun Belt
MAC
WAC
MEAC
SWAC
Patriot

And then certain programs who may make the cut (mainly flagships):
Vermont
UNH
Maine
SDSU
NDSU
Montana
Montana State
Idaho
Iona

This would result in every state (bar Alaska) in Division 1.

(03-10-2022 11:28 AM)shizzle787 Wrote:  We could see a split on the basketball side that could lead to 1-A and 1-AA just like football.
The leagues that might make the cut:
ACC
Big East
B1G
Big 12
Pac-12
SEC
A-10
AAC
MVC
MW (Hawaii joins in all sports)
WCC
Ivy
CAA
Southern
C-USA
Sun Belt
MAC
WAC
MEAC
SWAC
Patriot

And then certain programs who may make the cut (mainly flagships):
Vermont
UNH
Maine
SDSU
NDSU
Montana
Montana State
Idaho
Iona

This would result in every state (bar Alaska) in Division 1.

How could some of those conferences make the cut and some others not?

So if requirements to move from fcs to fbs are elevated, making the move today will not allow a school to get around the new requirements that are still not rules. Doesn't sound legit.

(03-10-2022 11:40 AM)lion1983 Wrote:  

(03-10-2022 11:28 AM)shizzle787 Wrote:  We could see a split on the basketball side that could lead to 1-A and 1-AA just like football.
The leagues that might make the cut:
ACC
Big East
B1G
Big 12
Pac-12
SEC
A-10
AAC
MVC
MW (Hawaii joins in all sports)
WCC
Ivy
CAA
Southern
C-USA
Sun Belt
MAC
WAC
MEAC
SWAC
Patriot

And then certain programs who may make the cut (mainly flagships):
Vermont
UNH
Maine
SDSU
NDSU
Montana
Montana State
Idaho
Iona

This would result in every state (bar Alaska) in Division 1.

How could some of those conferences make the cut and some others not?

The top 11 are the major six basketball leagues and the five other perennial major mid majors. The Ivy and Patriot are the academic leagues (the Patriot includes Army and Navy as well). The SWAC and MEAC are the HBCUs. They won't be left behind. C-USA, the Sun Belt, and the MAC play 1-A football so it would make things easier if they played 1-A basketball. The CAA is a well-known name, and the Southern and the WAC are the two best basketball leagues left.

As long as the rest of the best schools make the cut in some way or form, the remaining leagues don't have much to offer:
Horizon
Big West (minus Hawaii)
MAAC (minus Iona)
A-Sun
Big Sky (minus Montana, Montana State, Idaho)
Summit (minus SDSU and NDSU)
OVC
America East (minus UNH, UVM, Maine)
Big South
NEC
Southland

Maybe just make certain sports a requirement and maybe more attendance requirements for the required sports. You need what 16 sports for D1? Maybe make 8 or 9(if football is a sport played) the sports could be M/W basketball, track and field, Baseball/softball, Lacrosse, and 4 other sports. Maybe you mandate attendance (like how FCS call-ups was supposed to do) maybe full ride scholarships compared to partial. Maybe have updated requirements for home venues.

Why would the say, Patriot/WAC/SWAC/MEAC get in instead of the America East and Big Sky?

Why automatically include G5 conferences if they have sub par basketball?

Why would you leave out the two largest (in number of sports offered, scholarships given, and budget) schools in the Big Sky? (Sac State and NAU)


Get ready for litigation.

What they are going to likely do is increase the number of sports/scholarships a school has to provide.

I could see a rule for minimum sports, and to be DI you must sponsor football. Also could have requirements on football, baseball and basketball arenas, size and standards.

(03-10-2022 11:47 AM)shizzle787 Wrote:  

(03-10-2022 11:40 AM)lion1983 Wrote:  

(03-10-2022 11:28 AM)shizzle787 Wrote:  We could see a split on the basketball side that could lead to 1-A and 1-AA just like football.
The leagues that might make the cut:
ACC
Big East
B1G
Big 12
Pac-12
SEC
A-10
AAC
MVC
MW (Hawaii joins in all sports)
WCC
Ivy
CAA
Southern
C-USA
Sun Belt
MAC
WAC
MEAC
SWAC
Patriot

And then certain programs who may make the cut (mainly flagships):
Vermont
UNH
Maine
SDSU
NDSU
Montana
Montana State
Idaho
Iona

This would result in every state (bar Alaska) in Division 1.

How could some of those conferences make the cut and some others not?

The top 11 are the major six basketball leagues and the five other perennial major mid majors. The Ivy and Patriot are the academic leagues (the Patriot includes Army and Navy as well). The SWAC and MEAC are the HBCUs. They won't be left behind. C-USA, the Sun Belt, and the MAC play 1-A football so it would make things easier if they played 1-A basketball. The CAA is a well-known name, and the Southern and the WAC are the two best basketball leagues left.

As long as the rest of the best schools make the cut in some way or form, the remaining leagues don't have much to offer:
Horizon
Big West (minus Hawaii)
MAAC (minus Iona)
A-Sun
Big Sky (minus Montana, Montana State, Idaho)
Summit (minus SDSU and NDSU)
OVC
America East (minus UNH, UVM, Maine)
Big South
NEC
Southland

You are leaving out the two largest budgets, which includes the only Big Sky school ever to win a DI championship (5 of them, btw).

IMO some of these comments are reading things into the NCAA statement that are not there.

The key part is "those that may be contemplating reclassification to Division I or movement within the Division I membership".

That's meant to change the rules to move D-II to D-I, or FCS to FBS. Not to kick out anyone who is already in D-I or FBS.

The changes might even be in response to the recent Supreme Court case, and its suggestion that there are many NCAA rules that are illegally anticompetitive. If that's the case, the changes might even make it *easier* to move, to try to insulate the NCAA from more lawsuits.

To use an example mentioned in another thread here recently: The requirement for a 4-year transition period when moving into Division I is ridiculous. That requirement could easily be eliminated, as could any transition period for FCS-to-FBS movers.

Been talking about this for months. This isn't about moving whole leagues up, down or out of D-I, but about adjusting the FCS->FBS or D-II-->D-I process. The entire dang constitution is getting rewritten, and virtually every bylaw or rule about what it means to be a conference, participate in a tournament, etc, is going to be redone.

I do not think there will be an out and out pause on reclassification but I would expect the "floor" to join D-I or FBS will rise. I write about this stuff a lot.

(03-10-2022 12:10 PM)Wedge Wrote:  IMO some of these comments are reading things into the NCAA statement that are not there.

The key part is "those that may be contemplating reclassification to Division I or movement within the Division I membership".

That's meant to change the rules to move D-II to D-I, or FCS to FBS. Not to kick out anyone who is already in D-I or FBS.

The changes might even be in response to the recent Supreme Court case, and its suggestion that there are many NCAA rules that are illegally anticompetitive. If that's the case, the changes might even make it *easier* to move, to try to insulate the NCAA from more lawsuits.

To use an example mentioned in another thread here recently: The requirement for a 4-year transition period when moving into Division I is ridiculous. That requirement could easily be eliminated, as could any transition period for FCS-to-FBS movers.

There isn't a justification for the FCS>FBS. The reason for the DII>DI is that in the past, DII had different entrance requirements for athletes, so a DII program could come with athletes that would not have been eligible in DI. A case for a shortened transition could be made, if the D2 schools was recruiting/admitting with DI rules to begin with

(03-10-2022 12:10 PM)Wedge Wrote:  IMO some of these comments are reading things into the NCAA statement that are not there.

The key part is "those that may be contemplating reclassification to Division I or movement within the Division I membership".

That's meant to change the rules to move D-II to D-I, or FCS to FBS. Not to kick out anyone who is already in D-I or FBS.

The changes might even be in response to the recent Supreme Court case, and its suggestion that there are many NCAA rules that are illegally anticompetitive. If that's the case, the changes might even make it *easier* to move, to try to insulate the NCAA from more lawsuits.

To use an example mentioned in another thread here recently: The requirement for a 4-year transition period when moving into Division I is ridiculous. That requirement could easily be eliminated, as could any transition period for FCS-to-FBS movers.

That's a good point.

I could see a proverbial splitting of the baby: requiring the sponsorship of more sports with higher funding levels on the one hand (which sets the competitive bar for Division I higher), but not have arbitrary rules beyond those requirements (e.g. the transition period, having to find a D-I conference home or really any type of requirement outside of the requisite number of sports and funding). Essentially, the NCAA could set a higher bar for getting into Division I, but it's truly a straight-line bar. If you meet those requirements, then you can be Division I (even if your only option is to be an independent in all sports - that should be completely the prerogative of the applicable school). It's when you start adding in arbitrary requirements where whether you get into Division I can depend upon small "p" political moves or items that can be easily manipulated and/or don't really reflect financial strength (and I'd actually put attendance requirements in that category at this point), that's where the NCAA gets into trouble.

In essence, make the truly substantive requirements for moving up to Division I harder, but simultaneously remove the non-substantive requirements for moving up to Division I.

I was struck by the statement that trying to move up now ahead of changes to requirements will not circumvent the new requirements. What's not clear to me is whether that statement will apply to the most recent moves that have already been announced. And how "recent" is "recent"?

I could easily see a compromise being proposed in which it would be easier for schools to be classified D-I, but without any guarantee that they would have an automatic path to the NCAA basketball tournament. But there are roughly 200 current D-I schools that would fight that tooth and nail.

(03-10-2022 11:56 AM)Usajags Wrote:  I could see a rule for minimum sports, and to be DI you must sponsor football. Also could have requirements on football, baseball and basketball arenas, size and standards.

This 100% isn’t happening. There are a lot of schools without football who invest more into athletics than some schools with football. And they’re not putting D1 membership requirements for baseball - which isn’t sponsored by quite a few schools who invest a lot in athletics.

(03-10-2022 11:56 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  Why would the say, Patriot/WAC/SWAC/MEAC get in instead of the America East and Big Sky?

Why automatically include G5 conferences if they have sub par basketball?

Why would you leave out the two largest (in number of sports offered, scholarships given, and budget) schools in the Big Sky? (Sac State and NAU)


Get ready for litigation.

What they are going to likely do is increase the number of sports/scholarships a school has to provide.

About some of the above - IMO it would be politically touchy to attempt to downgrade any of the HBCU conferences.

(03-10-2022 12:20 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  Been talking about this for months. This isn't about moving whole leagues up, down or out of D-I, but about adjusting the FCS->FBS or D-II-->D-I process. The entire dang constitution is getting rewritten, and virtually every bylaw or rule about what it means to be a conference, participate in a tournament, etc, is going to be redone.

I do not think there will be an out and out pause on reclassification but I would expect the "floor" to join D-I or FBS will rise. I write about this stuff a lot.

That's the sense I get from this memo as well, what with the wording that rushing to reclassify now won't allow a school to avoid the higher requirements. As "Ken-D" said, that is a striking thing to say, and I'm not sure how I would fully interpret it.

But I do feel confident that I can interpret it to mean the floor is likely rising. Sounds like a shot across the bow.

I hate to burst shizzle's bubble. But UC Santa Barbara's Division 1 future is secure if we want it. Recent facility upgrades, a recent NCAA hoops bid. In a sense, given our success in multiple olympic sports, we're one of the poster children who say "no football? no problem."

Sponsoring 19 sports is nice too.

(03-10-2022 12:32 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-10-2022 12:10 PM)Wedge Wrote:  IMO some of these comments are reading things into the NCAA statement that are not there.

The key part is "those that may be contemplating reclassification to Division I or movement within the Division I membership".

That's meant to change the rules to move D-II to D-I, or FCS to FBS. Not to kick out anyone who is already in D-I or FBS.

The changes might even be in response to the recent Supreme Court case, and its suggestion that there are many NCAA rules that are illegally anticompetitive. If that's the case, the changes might even make it *easier* to move, to try to insulate the NCAA from more lawsuits.

To use an example mentioned in another thread here recently: The requirement for a 4-year transition period when moving into Division I is ridiculous. That requirement could easily be eliminated, as could any transition period for FCS-to-FBS movers.

That's a good point.

I could see a proverbial splitting of the baby: requiring the sponsorship of more sports with higher funding levels on the one hand (which sets the competitive bar for Division I higher), but not have arbitrary rules beyond those requirements (e.g. the transition period, having to find a D-I conference home or really any type of requirement outside of the requisite number of sports and funding). Essentially, the NCAA could set a higher bar for getting into Division I, but it's truly a straight-line bar. If you meet those requirements, then you can be Division I (even if your only option is to be an independent in all sports - that should be completely the prerogative of the applicable school). It's when you start adding in arbitrary requirements where whether you get into Division I can depend upon small "p" political moves or items that can be easily manipulated and/or don't really reflect financial strength (and I'd actually put attendance requirements in that category at this point), that's where the NCAA gets into trouble.

In essence, make the truly substantive requirements for moving up to Division I harder, but simultaneously remove the non-substantive requirements for moving up to Division I.

I think the dropping the requirement to be sponsored by a conference is a non-starter. That would in theory allow 10-12 schools from the same region to all move up at the same time and in theory form a conference and then cry about not getting an AQ bid until they get one. It will lead to an already bloated D-1 getting bigger.

If the following leagues (who have no legitimate reason for being Division 1) dropped out (with the better schools finding homes in other D-1 leagues), the NCAA tournament could go back to 64 and actually gain 3 at-large bids:

OVC (Morehead State might find a home somewhere)
MAAC (Iona, Siena, Fairfield, and Quinnipiac might find homes)
Big South (Winthrop might find a home)
A-Sun (FGCU might find a home)
Horizon
NEC (Bryant/Wagner might find homes)
Southland

(03-10-2022 01:37 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  I hate to burst shizzle's bubble. But UC Santa Barbara's Division 1 future is secure if we want it. Recent facility upgrades, a recent NCAA hoops bid. In a sense, given our success in multiple olympic sports, we're one of the poster children who say "no football? no problem."

Sponsoring 19 sports is nice too.

I rethought this I would keep the Big West as Hawaii is in the league and Santa Barbera, Davis, and Irvine are public Ivys. I also kept the Big Sky, AEC, and Summit due to having flagships.