(02-28-2022 06:01 PM)Midwestan Wrote:  According to the Ivy League website, Cornell has already clinched the #4 seed in the conference tournament. If the Big Red end up 6-8 along with Harvard and/or Brown, Cornell holds the tie-breaker. Dartmouth is also eliminated from contention, as is Columbia, which you mentioned.

Also, it's not known which teams will occupy the 9 to 12 slots, but the bottom 4 teams in the SWAC do not get to play in the conference tournament in Birmingham next week.

So, altogether, 332 teams of the 358 in D-1 have a shot at the national championship. Like others, I really love this time of year!

Not that I don't trust you, but I couldn't find anything on the Ivy League web site. If you click enough you can find some pictures from the 2018 tournament of stories about the 2019 tournament.

All series among Cornell, Harvard, Brown, and Dartmouth were split, so apparently a tie between Cornell and Harvard or Brown; or Cornell and (Harvard or Brown) and Dartmouth would be decided by the results against the top team(s).

If this is Princeton, it is straightforward since Cornell is the only team with a win over Princeton. But if Princeton and Yale tie, I don't know whether that tie is broken first - and both Princeton and Yale split with each other and Penn.

I think at that point the NFL and/or MIT will need to get involved based on whether KenPom thinks Sagarin or RPI is more reliable.

I had only worked my way through the M's (Mountain West), but you are likely correct about the SWAC.

I would say for this purpose that the NCAA has 350 Full Members.

(02-28-2022 05:32 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Not a conference tournament game but Towson playing at home for 1 seed of the CAA at 6. Have to make up the last 18 minutes of a postponed game with Delaware. Going into the game down 9. If Towson cannot rally, UNCW gets the #1 seed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7PBjKzaQEw

Isn't it about time Gonzaga stopped getting preferencial treatment in the WCC Tournament? As if they need a triple bye and just two potential games to win that usually crap league.

(03-01-2022 12:46 AM)jimrtex Wrote:  

(02-28-2022 06:01 PM)Midwestan Wrote:  According to the Ivy League website, Cornell has already clinched the #4 seed in the conference tournament. If the Big Red end up 6-8 along with Harvard and/or Brown, Cornell holds the tie-breaker. Dartmouth is also eliminated from contention, as is Columbia, which you mentioned.

Also, it's not known which teams will occupy the 9 to 12 slots, but the bottom 4 teams in the SWAC do not get to play in the conference tournament in Birmingham next week.

So, altogether, 332 teams of the 358 in D-1 have a shot at the national championship. Like others, I really love this time of year!

Not that I don't trust you, but I couldn't find anything on the Ivy League web site. If you click enough you can find some pictures from the 2018 tournament of stories about the 2019 tournament.

All series among Cornell, Harvard, Brown, and Dartmouth were split, so apparently a tie between Cornell and Harvard or Brown; or Cornell and (Harvard or Brown) and Dartmouth would be decided by the results against the top team(s).

If this is Princeton, it is straightforward since Cornell is the only team with a win over Princeton. But if Princeton and Yale tie, I don't know whether that tie is broken first - and both Princeton and Yale split with each other and Penn.

I think at that point the NFL and/or MIT will need to get involved based on whether KenPom thinks Sagarin or RPI is more reliable.

I had only worked my way through the M's (Mountain West), but you are likely correct about the SWAC.

I would say for this purpose that the NCAA has 350 Full Members.

Here's where I found out about Cornell. On the Ivy League site, go to "Sports", then click on the Men's Basketball link.


Princeton Clinches a Share of Ivy League Title With Win at Harvard
PRINCETON, N.J. – Princeton men’s basketball clinched at least a share of the 2022 Ivy League Men’s Basketball title as Tosan Evbuomwan hit a last second shot with 4.8 seconds remaining to lift Princeton to a 74-73 win at Harvard.

With Princeton’s win over Harvard, Cornell clinched the fourth and final seed to the 2022 Ivy League Men’s Basketball Tournament set for March 11-13 at Lavietes Pavillion. For tickets and more information, please click here.

(03-01-2022 04:49 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Isn't it about time Gonzaga stopped getting preferencial treatment in the WCC Tournament? As if they need a triple bye and just two potential games to win that usually crap league.

I couldn't agree more about the preferential treatment. I would dispute the 'usually crap league' quote though. Gonzaga's success and dominance over the years in the West Coast Conference has led to better play from the contending teams in a given year. It's just that the Bulldogs seem to be on steroids compared to their other 'lifting buddies' in the conference. That said, GU does not need a 'protected seeding' tournament to guard against possible exclusion to the NCAA Tournament. As long as Mark Few is on the sidelines at Gonzaga, this team is going to finish in the top tier of basketball schools on an annual basis. On top of that, the WCC cut back on conference games played (from 18 to 16) so Gonzaga could schedule a couple more non-conference marquis teams to play, while guarding against a worse NET rating because it played a couple of games against the weaker sisters in the WCC.

As a general rule, I don't like protected seeding tournaments like you find here, or the Ohio Valley, Southland, and for the first time ever this year, the WAC. Could you imagine the uproar if the NCAA Tournament conducted itself this way? No first or second round games for the top 1 or 2 seeds in each region...a straight bye to the Sweet 16? I don't think that would fly at all. I'm not opposed to the lowest ranked teams in a conference being excluded from their conference tournaments, but it would be nice to see everyone who's eligible have a chance to play and create their own 'March Magic', if only for one game.

I like how the Metro Atlantic and Summit League reward their top teams, by having seeds 1 and 2 play their quarterfinal games on one day, then seeds 3 and 4 on the next day. If the top 4 teams advance to the semifinals, the top 2 seeds get an extra day's rest and have to win the title by playing 3 games in 4 days, rather than playing 3 consecutive days.

As I say though, nobody asked me how to set up and run their conference tournaments! It still doesn't diminish the excitement level in me for the first 3 weeks of March. Once the Sweet 16 is set, I generally lose interest in the tournament unless there is a Cinderella team or two still in the mix. By the end of March, I'm shifting into grass-mowing mode!

(03-01-2022 08:54 AM)Midwestan Wrote:  

(03-01-2022 04:49 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Isn't it about time Gonzaga stopped getting preferencial treatment in the WCC Tournament? As if they need a triple bye and just two potential games to win that usually crap league.

I couldn't agree more about the preferential treatment. I would dispute the 'usually crap league' quote though. Gonzaga's success and dominance over the years in the West Coast Conference has led to better play from the contending teams in a given year. It's just that the Bulldogs seem to be on steroids compared to their other 'lifting buddies' in the conference. That said, GU does not need a 'protected seeding' tournament to guard against possible exclusion to the NCAA Tournament. As long as Mark Few is on the sidelines at Gonzaga, this team is going to finish in the top tier of basketball schools on an annual basis. On top of that, the WCC cut back on conference games played (from 18 to 16) so Gonzaga could schedule a couple more non-conference marquis teams to play, while guarding against a worse NET rating because it played a couple of games against the weaker sisters in the WCC.

As a general rule, I don't like protected seeding tournaments like you find here, or the Ohio Valley, Southland, and for the first time ever this year, the WAC. Could you imagine the uproar if the NCAA Tournament conducted itself this way? No first or second round games for the top 1 or 2 seeds in each region...a straight bye to the Sweet 16? I don't think that would fly at all. I'm not opposed to the lowest ranked teams in a conference being excluded from their conference tournaments, but it would be nice to see everyone who's eligible have a chance to play and create their own 'March Magic', if only for one game.

I like how the Metro Atlantic and Summit League reward their top teams, by having seeds 1 and 2 play their quarterfinal games on one day, then seeds 3 and 4 on the next day. If the top 4 teams advance to the semifinals, the top 2 seeds get an extra day's rest and have to win the title by playing 3 games in 4 days, rather than playing 3 consecutive days.

As I say though, nobody asked me how to set up and run their conference tournaments! It still doesn't diminish the excitement level in me for the first 3 weeks of March. Once the Sweet 16 is set, I generally lose interest in the tournament unless there is a Cinderella team or two still in the mix. By the end of March, I'm shifting into grass-mowing mode!

Here's the thing about all the tourneys. The changing of the brackets just doesn't work...
WCC #1 seed has only won like 6 of 10 years.
OVC #1 seed has only won like 4 of 10 years.

we'll track those formats this year and see what works/doesn't work.

(03-01-2022 08:58 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-01-2022 08:54 AM)Midwestan Wrote:  

(03-01-2022 04:49 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Isn't it about time Gonzaga stopped getting preferencial treatment in the WCC Tournament? As if they need a triple bye and just two potential games to win that usually crap league.

I couldn't agree more about the preferential treatment. I would dispute the 'usually crap league' quote though. Gonzaga's success and dominance over the years in the West Coast Conference has led to better play from the contending teams in a given year. It's just that the Bulldogs seem to be on steroids compared to their other 'lifting buddies' in the conference. That said, GU does not need a 'protected seeding' tournament to guard against possible exclusion to the NCAA Tournament. As long as Mark Few is on the sidelines at Gonzaga, this team is going to finish in the top tier of basketball schools on an annual basis. On top of that, the WCC cut back on conference games played (from 18 to 16) so Gonzaga could schedule a couple more non-conference marquis teams to play, while guarding against a worse NET rating because it played a couple of games against the weaker sisters in the WCC.

As a general rule, I don't like protected seeding tournaments like you find here, or the Ohio Valley, Southland, and for the first time ever this year, the WAC. Could you imagine the uproar if the NCAA Tournament conducted itself this way? No first or second round games for the top 1 or 2 seeds in each region...a straight bye to the Sweet 16? I don't think that would fly at all. I'm not opposed to the lowest ranked teams in a conference being excluded from their conference tournaments, but it would be nice to see everyone who's eligible have a chance to play and create their own 'March Magic', if only for one game.

I like how the Metro Atlantic and Summit League reward their top teams, by having seeds 1 and 2 play their quarterfinal games on one day, then seeds 3 and 4 on the next day. If the top 4 teams advance to the semifinals, the top 2 seeds get an extra day's rest and have to win the title by playing 3 games in 4 days, rather than playing 3 consecutive days.

As I say though, nobody asked me how to set up and run their conference tournaments! It still doesn't diminish the excitement level in me for the first 3 weeks of March. Once the Sweet 16 is set, I generally lose interest in the tournament unless there is a Cinderella team or two still in the mix. By the end of March, I'm shifting into grass-mowing mode!

Here's the thing about all the tourneys. The changing of the brackets just doesn't work...
WCC #1 seed has only won like 6 of 10 years.
OVC #1 seed has only won like 4 of 10 years.

we'll track those formats this year and see what works/doesn't work.

Good information stever20...thanks! I'd like to delve into conference tournament histories moreso than I do, but with 32 leagues and an upcoming 360 D-1 schools, it's quite an undertaking!

(02-28-2022 02:37 AM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  Longwood seems like the best shot at a never been to make it. Seattle for the 1st time since coming back to D-I

I swore Longwood played in the Dayton games one year.

(03-01-2022 10:34 AM)fsquid Wrote:  

(02-28-2022 02:37 AM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  Longwood seems like the best shot at a never been to make it. Seattle for the 1st time since coming back to D-I

I swore Longwood played in the Dayton games one year.

nope. Shoot they joined D1 in 2005, and this is only their 2nd winning season in that time. The best they had ever been in Ken Pom was #247, last year.

(03-01-2022 08:54 AM)Midwestan Wrote:  

(03-01-2022 04:49 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Isn't it about time Gonzaga stopped getting preferencial treatment in the WCC Tournament? As if they need a triple bye and just two potential games to win that usually crap league.

I couldn't agree more about the preferential treatment. I would dispute the 'usually crap league' quote though. Gonzaga's success and dominance over the years in the West Coast Conference has led to better play from the contending teams in a given year. It's just that the Bulldogs seem to be on steroids compared to their other 'lifting buddies' in the conference. That said, GU does not need a 'protected seeding' tournament to guard against possible exclusion to the NCAA Tournament. As long as Mark Few is on the sidelines at Gonzaga, this team is going to finish in the top tier of basketball schools on an annual basis. On top of that, the WCC cut back on conference games played (from 18 to 16) so Gonzaga could schedule a couple more non-conference marquis teams to play, while guarding against a worse NET rating because it played a couple of games against the weaker sisters in the WCC.

As a general rule, I don't like protected seeding tournaments like you find here, or the Ohio Valley, Southland, and for the first time ever this year, the WAC. Could you imagine the uproar if the NCAA Tournament conducted itself this way? No first or second round games for the top 1 or 2 seeds in each region...a straight bye to the Sweet 16? I don't think that would fly at all. I'm not opposed to the lowest ranked teams in a conference being excluded from their conference tournaments, but it would be nice to see everyone who's eligible have a chance to play and create their own 'March Magic', if only for one game.

I like how the Metro Atlantic and Summit League reward their top teams, by having seeds 1 and 2 play their quarterfinal games on one day, then seeds 3 and 4 on the next day. If the top 4 teams advance to the semifinals, the top 2 seeds get an extra day's rest and have to win the title by playing 3 games in 4 days, rather than playing 3 consecutive days.

As I say though, nobody asked me how to set up and run their conference tournaments! It still doesn't diminish the excitement level in me for the first 3 weeks of March. Once the Sweet 16 is set, I generally lose interest in the tournament unless there is a Cinderella team or two still in the mix. By the end of March, I'm shifting into grass-mowing mode!

I'd simply like the WCC tournament to go back to everyone playing in the quarter finals. Though I don't mind a 7-10 and 8-9 matchup a day before so both everyone gets into the tournament and the top 2 teams get some benefit of being 1 and 2 by playing a tired team in the first round. The only thing I see that benefits in the current way the tournament is run is on paper the higher seed should get a win on a neutral court in hopes of boosting their NET number. BYU should get 1 win on a neutral court in this bracket instead of playing San Francisco in the quarter finals in in the other bracket.

(03-01-2022 12:17 PM)46566 Wrote:  

(03-01-2022 08:54 AM)Midwestan Wrote:  

(03-01-2022 04:49 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Isn't it about time Gonzaga stopped getting preferencial treatment in the WCC Tournament? As if they need a triple bye and just two potential games to win that usually crap league.

I couldn't agree more about the preferential treatment. I would dispute the 'usually crap league' quote though. Gonzaga's success and dominance over the years in the West Coast Conference has led to better play from the contending teams in a given year. It's just that the Bulldogs seem to be on steroids compared to their other 'lifting buddies' in the conference. That said, GU does not need a 'protected seeding' tournament to guard against possible exclusion to the NCAA Tournament. As long as Mark Few is on the sidelines at Gonzaga, this team is going to finish in the top tier of basketball schools on an annual basis. On top of that, the WCC cut back on conference games played (from 18 to 16) so Gonzaga could schedule a couple more non-conference marquis teams to play, while guarding against a worse NET rating because it played a couple of games against the weaker sisters in the WCC.

As a general rule, I don't like protected seeding tournaments like you find here, or the Ohio Valley, Southland, and for the first time ever this year, the WAC. Could you imagine the uproar if the NCAA Tournament conducted itself this way? No first or second round games for the top 1 or 2 seeds in each region...a straight bye to the Sweet 16? I don't think that would fly at all. I'm not opposed to the lowest ranked teams in a conference being excluded from their conference tournaments, but it would be nice to see everyone who's eligible have a chance to play and create their own 'March Magic', if only for one game.

I like how the Metro Atlantic and Summit League reward their top teams, by having seeds 1 and 2 play their quarterfinal games on one day, then seeds 3 and 4 on the next day. If the top 4 teams advance to the semifinals, the top 2 seeds get an extra day's rest and have to win the title by playing 3 games in 4 days, rather than playing 3 consecutive days.

As I say though, nobody asked me how to set up and run their conference tournaments! It still doesn't diminish the excitement level in me for the first 3 weeks of March. Once the Sweet 16 is set, I generally lose interest in the tournament unless there is a Cinderella team or two still in the mix. By the end of March, I'm shifting into grass-mowing mode!

I'd simply like the WCC tournament to go back to everyone playing in the quarter finals. Though I don't mind a 7-10 and 8-9 matchup a day before so both everyone gets into the tournament and the top 2 teams get some benefit of being 1 and 2 by playing a tired team in the first round. The only thing I see that benefits in the current way the tournament is run is on paper the higher seed should get a win on a neutral court in hopes of boosting their NET number. BYU should get 1 win on a neutral court in this bracket instead of playing San Francisco in the quarter finals in in the other bracket.

Only thing for BYU is that win is going to be against a LMU or Pacific team that is currently 210 or 294 ranked team- so beating them won't help much at all.

Night #1 already saw a March Madness upset as #9 Central Connecticut State rallied on the road to beat #8 Farleigh Dickinson.

Lots of first round games tonight in the ASUN, Horizon, and Patriot with some afternoon action from the Big South tomorrow

(03-01-2022 12:17 PM)46566 Wrote:  I'd simply like the WCC tournament to go back to everyone playing in the quarter finals. Though I don't mind a 7-10 and 8-9 matchup a day before so both everyone gets into the tournament and the top 2 teams get some benefit of being 1 and 2 by playing a tired team in the first round.

The benefit of the current format, for the top teams, is just not having to play another game against a team outside the top six. A team that's in the running for a higher NCAA tournament seed doesn't want to play a conference tournament game against a team with a poor computer rating, because just playing that game could ding your own rating even if you win.

Makes sense for any conference whose top teams are always going to be dinged by the biases of the NCAA tournament committee, especially the WCC who is up against both the committee's "big conference" bias and the committee's east coast bias.

In the WCC, the beneficiary of this format this year is not Gonzaga, but Saint Mary's, who is top-20 in NET and in the human polls, but you know the committee is itching for any excuse to give them a #9 or 10 seed in a regional.

(03-01-2022 12:57 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-01-2022 12:17 PM)46566 Wrote:  

(03-01-2022 08:54 AM)Midwestan Wrote:  

(03-01-2022 04:49 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Isn't it about time Gonzaga stopped getting preferencial treatment in the WCC Tournament? As if they need a triple bye and just two potential games to win that usually crap league.

I couldn't agree more about the preferential treatment. I would dispute the 'usually crap league' quote though. Gonzaga's success and dominance over the years in the West Coast Conference has led to better play from the contending teams in a given year. It's just that the Bulldogs seem to be on steroids compared to their other 'lifting buddies' in the conference. That said, GU does not need a 'protected seeding' tournament to guard against possible exclusion to the NCAA Tournament. As long as Mark Few is on the sidelines at Gonzaga, this team is going to finish in the top tier of basketball schools on an annual basis. On top of that, the WCC cut back on conference games played (from 18 to 16) so Gonzaga could schedule a couple more non-conference marquis teams to play, while guarding against a worse NET rating because it played a couple of games against the weaker sisters in the WCC.

As a general rule, I don't like protected seeding tournaments like you find here, or the Ohio Valley, Southland, and for the first time ever this year, the WAC. Could you imagine the uproar if the NCAA Tournament conducted itself this way? No first or second round games for the top 1 or 2 seeds in each region...a straight bye to the Sweet 16? I don't think that would fly at all. I'm not opposed to the lowest ranked teams in a conference being excluded from their conference tournaments, but it would be nice to see everyone who's eligible have a chance to play and create their own 'March Magic', if only for one game.

I like how the Metro Atlantic and Summit League reward their top teams, by having seeds 1 and 2 play their quarterfinal games on one day, then seeds 3 and 4 on the next day. If the top 4 teams advance to the semifinals, the top 2 seeds get an extra day's rest and have to win the title by playing 3 games in 4 days, rather than playing 3 consecutive days.

As I say though, nobody asked me how to set up and run their conference tournaments! It still doesn't diminish the excitement level in me for the first 3 weeks of March. Once the Sweet 16 is set, I generally lose interest in the tournament unless there is a Cinderella team or two still in the mix. By the end of March, I'm shifting into grass-mowing mode!

I'd simply like the WCC tournament to go back to everyone playing in the quarter finals. Though I don't mind a 7-10 and 8-9 matchup a day before so both everyone gets into the tournament and the top 2 teams get some benefit of being 1 and 2 by playing a tired team in the first round. The only thing I see that benefits in the current way the tournament is run is on paper the higher seed should get a win on a neutral court in hopes of boosting their NET number. BYU should get 1 win on a neutral court in this bracket instead of playing San Francisco in the quarter finals in in the other bracket.

Only thing for BYU is that win is going to be against a LMU or Pacific team that is currently 210 or 294 ranked team- so beating them won't help much at all.

True, both teams got unlucky by being 4 and 5 while Santa Clara got #3. To bad the game Santa Clara pulled out of against Portland got them the #3 seed. (Even if it should have been a win) If BYU played Santa Clara instead at least it would have gave BYU a potential of two neutral wins then a loss against Gonzaga. Being matched against San Francisco is in my mind a play in game for the third team in for the WCC. If San Francisco wins they get out of the play in game. If BYU wins I think or hope BYU and San Francisco switch places..