Elon and CofC just lost....but the Tribe can’t take advantage.

Well, we dominated at the charity stripe and didn’t eclipse 20 turnovers, so that’s good. At 5-22, we’ve won 18% of our games and somehow second to last in the CAA.

Kochera finally hit a couple FTs with under two minutes remaining to finally get on the board. He averaged over 11 PPG but managed to score 0 from the field.

The good news is we beat two of our three remaining opponents.


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Rice had ice on his knee

Rice's injury looked a lot more like a hamstring when it happened. He went up for a shot and his leg gave out on the way up. Wynter couldn't put any weight on his leg when the rushed him off through the back of the arena. Hoping that it was just a bad spill with a cut and nothing compound or anything like that.

Drexel is not a good team, but they were more physical and better athletes than us. After Wynter went out we had a great chance to pull it out, but our defense fell apart. We let the back up point guard (#3) go right through to the hoop a couple of times. If not for Quinn Blair, we would have lost that game by 20 or more. Kochera is forcing everything. Nobody is getting an open three. The offense just confounds me. We run a man to man pick and drive offense against a zone, never make more than a couple of passes, and never, and I mean never get an easy basket. I'll be interested to see how we do on Saturday against a very good Delaware team. Hopefully some fans show up. The Kap was pretty empty tonight.

This will be a record breaking season …. Move over Swenson your 23 loss record season going down

(02-17-2022 09:50 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  Drexel is not a good team, but they were more physical and better athletes than us. After Wynter went out we had a great chance to pull it out, but our defense fell apart. We let the back up point guard (#3) go right through to the hoop a couple of times. If not for Quinn Blair, we would have lost that game by 20 or more. Kochera is forcing everything. Nobody is getting an open three. The offense just confounds me. We run a man to man pick and drive offense against a zone, never make more than a couple of passes, and never, and I mean never get an easy basket. I'll be interested to see how we do on Saturday against a very good Delaware team. Hopefully some fans show up. The Kap was pretty empty tonight.

The bolded portion your post pretty much explains why The Kap was empty last night. Your words would fit most of our losses. I know we’re a young team, but that was our 28th game of the season. Same old, same old, every night. Something’s gotta give or the “Kap mostly empty” posts will start in December instead of February.

Tyler Rice is shooting 35% at the rim, Yuri is shooting 32%. The list of players in D-1 shooting that poorly, on that many attempts, is very small, and it somehow includes both our point guards.

This was one of our worst conference losses. Hard to not see this one as a coaching problem. It's unfortunate to see a regression in Covington and Kochera. Quinn has been outstanding pretty much every time he has taken the court this year, why is he not a starter and the leader? Where is Harvey (maybe lingering knee injury? he looked a little tentative on it a few games ago)? Way too much is being asked of Rice--he started the game with two turnovers and a bricked dunk.

I think Lewis is a bright spot, but where is help on offense? It seems like the plan is to draw players to the perimeter (which any team with a scouting report could care less about our shooters left open) and then have Lewis try to take it to the rack against help?

I also fear the Covington/Kochera effect could take its toll on Lewis, is he going to regress as he matures?

Dire straits, not sure what the path forward is. Look to transfer portal, blow up this offensive model. Do something quick, Dane, because your fans are souring.

Also, an interesting note--Dave Paulsen was dropped from GMU last spring and has not been picked up by another program...did we back a bad model for high-medium mid major basketball (Dane being Paulsen's right hand man)?

Almost as troubling as our offense for me is that we seemed like we took a step forward defensively at the start of conference play with aggressive on the ball pressure. Only now we're back to just playing "normal" defense. Part of our mid-season turnaround was that we were attacking the passing lanes and pestering opposing guards, and getting some easy baskets that way. Why did we stop?

(02-18-2022 01:20 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  Almost as troubling as our offense for me is that we seemed like we took a step forward defensively at the start of conference play with aggressive on the ball pressure. Only now we're back to just playing "normal" defense. Part of our mid-season turnaround was that we were attacking the passing lanes and pestering opposing guards, and getting some easy baskets that way. Why did we stop?

I say this all game, every game. It's mystifying. What is the point of emphasizing athleticism in recruits if we aren't going to use that athleticism on the court. Our team is not great at many things but we are both fast and quick. A pressure defense could actually make a difference for this team. And yes that means sometimes we'll get beat and it will lead to open looks. But we already aren't winning. What's the harm?

(02-18-2022 01:37 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(02-18-2022 01:20 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  Almost as troubling as our offense for me is that we seemed like we took a step forward defensively at the start of conference play with aggressive on the ball pressure. Only now we're back to just playing "normal" defense. Part of our mid-season turnaround was that we were attacking the passing lanes and pestering opposing guards, and getting some easy baskets that way. Why did we stop?

I say this all game, every game. It's mystifying. What is the point of emphasizing athleticism in recruits if we aren't going to use that athleticism on the court. Our team is not great at many things but we are both fast and quick. A pressure defense could actually make a difference for this team. And yes that means sometimes we'll get beat and it will lead to open looks. But we already aren't winning. What's the harm?

I'm not sure what team you are referring to when you say we are fast and quick. We have two pure gifted athletes on the team (Carroll and Covington) and neither is an elite basketball talent. Don't confuse what we have now to what we used to have. Remember David Cohn and Marcus Thornton? They were fast and quick.

(02-18-2022 02:39 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  I'm not sure what team you are referring to when you say we are fast and quick. We have two pure gifted athletes on the team (Carroll and Covington) and neither is an elite basketball talent. Don't confuse what we have now to what we used to have. Remember David Cohn and Marcus Thornton? They were fast and quick.

If we're making comparisons to past players, I think it's much more the Brandon Britt mold. Fast as blazes but with some real gaps in their game. I'd never mistake any of these guys for the second coming of MT3 but this squad can 100% run a high pressure defensive set. Carroll and Covington you already covered, Rice is undersized but he is quick, especially on defense when he doesn't have to possess the ball, Lewis is super long without sacrificing speed like some wings, and even our bigs aren't big, plodding defensive types. All of them can get up and down the floor. I don't have a solution to our offensive woes but I'd like to at least see our defense play to our strengths.

(02-18-2022 02:56 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(02-18-2022 02:39 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  I'm not sure what team you are referring to when you say we are fast and quick. We have two pure gifted athletes on the team (Carroll and Covington) and neither is an elite basketball talent. Don't confuse what we have now to what we used to have. Remember David Cohn and Marcus Thornton? They were fast and quick.

If we're making comparisons to past players, I think it's much more the Brandon Britt mold. Fast as blazes but with some real gaps in their game. I'd never mistake any of these guys for the second coming of MT3 but this squad can 100% run a high pressure defensive set. Carroll and Covington you already covered, Rice is undersized but he is quick, especially on defense when he doesn't have to possess the ball, Lewis is super long without sacrificing speed like some wings, and even our bigs aren't big, plodding defensive types. All of them can get up and down the floor. I don't have a solution to our offensive woes but I'd like to at least see our defense play to our strengths.

100% agree. I was excited earlier in the season like in the JMU game at W&M where it seemed like Covington, Lewis, and Rice were frustrating the hell out of the JMU guards. We weren't pressing, but we were picking up aggressively and making the opposing team work to get into their offense. When this current losing streak started, it seemed like we've gone back to just following around on defense instead.

(02-18-2022 03:01 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  

(02-18-2022 02:56 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(02-18-2022 02:39 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  I'm not sure what team you are referring to when you say we are fast and quick. We have two pure gifted athletes on the team (Carroll and Covington) and neither is an elite basketball talent. Don't confuse what we have now to what we used to have. Remember David Cohn and Marcus Thornton? They were fast and quick.

If we're making comparisons to past players, I think it's much more the Brandon Britt mold. Fast as blazes but with some real gaps in their game. I'd never mistake any of these guys for the second coming of MT3 but this squad can 100% run a high pressure defensive set. Carroll and Covington you already covered, Rice is undersized but he is quick, especially on defense when he doesn't have to possess the ball, Lewis is super long without sacrificing speed like some wings, and even our bigs aren't big, plodding defensive types. All of them can get up and down the floor. I don't have a solution to our offensive woes but I'd like to at least see our defense play to our strengths.

100% agree. I was excited earlier in the season like in the JMU game at W&M where it seemed like Covington, Lewis, and Rice were frustrating the hell out of the JMU guards. We weren't pressing, but we were picking up aggressively and making the opposing team work to get into their offense. When this current losing streak started, it seemed like we've gone back to just following around on defense instead.

That type of pressure defense against JMU is very difficult to sustain unless you have a very deep bench. I was at the game, and it was awesome how we frustrated them and got way ahead, but even in that game, we lost in the end.

(02-17-2022 10:20 PM)Sic Semper Tyrranis Wrote:  This will be a record breaking season …. Move over Swenson your 23 loss record season going down

The 6-26 season is still the worst in terms of losses from 2011-12. But, that team developed into the 2013-2014 squad that began 6 years of the most success Tribe basketball has had. Prior to that, Tony had the 2008 CAA tourney run and the great 2009-10 team that could have gotten an at large invite. Dane does not have any prior success to fall back on. Hopefully, things will get a lot better for next season. But, with the transfer portal, it is impossible to even know what next season will look like yet.

Consistency really helps. Look at how much improvement David Cohn, Marcus Thornton, Justin Pierce, and Terry Tarpey had within the system Tony had. I don't know what Dane's system is yet. Some of that is attributable to COVID basically making 2021 a lost year and to the mix of prior staff talent in 2020(where he did a great job). This is the first year where most of the games are being played and with players he recruited. It hasn't gone well, but it is still uncertain how much youth and inexperience are a factor. Perhaps this year doesn't bother me as much as some of you because as fans we lived it already for 15 years from 1988 to 2002. The Rowe/Keener round is not where you want to be. But things can change fast now, look at UNCW. They lost to us in the play in last year, and now they might be the #1 seed.

(02-18-2022 02:56 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  

(02-18-2022 02:39 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  I'm not sure what team you are referring to when you say we are fast and quick. We have two pure gifted athletes on the team (Carroll and Covington) and neither is an elite basketball talent. Don't confuse what we have now to what we used to have. Remember David Cohn and Marcus Thornton? They were fast and quick.

If we're making comparisons to past players, I think it's much more the Brandon Britt mold. Fast as blazes but with some real gaps in their game. I'd never mistake any of these guys for the second coming of MT3 but this squad can 100% run a high pressure defensive set. Carroll and Covington you already covered, Rice is undersized but he is quick, especially on defense when he doesn't have to possess the ball, Lewis is super long without sacrificing speed like some wings, and even our bigs aren't big, plodding defensive types. All of them can get up and down the floor. I don't have a solution to our offensive woes but I'd like to at least see our defense play to our strengths.

Britt is the absolute best case scenario for Covington. Absolutely terrible his sophomore year, seemingly unable to channel his obvious talent into anything resembling productive basketball consistently. Cleaned up his game and eventually became a low starter/high rotation guy for a contender. Boatner was a three-point specialist who eventually became passable enough at everything else to earn a real spot at a senior; maybe that's Milkereit. (We already discussed how Wight might be the skinner, rangier Rusthoven.) Of course, there are many more examples in our history of bad players simply...continuing to be bad.

That 2011-12 team went from 6-26 to one jumper away in two years, but 1. I would say none of these freshmen are Marcus Thorntons, 2. We're not getting any Kyle Gaillards back from injury (maybe this role is a future transfer?) and 3. Recruiting guys like Prewitt and Tarpey who make real impacts as underclassmen takes luck even in the best of times. So I won't be expecting that kind of turnaround, but I think most would agree that if we don't see serious improvement next year, Dane's seat goes from warm to scalding.

(02-18-2022 04:42 PM)TribePride91 Wrote:  

(02-17-2022 10:20 PM)Sic Semper Tyrranis Wrote:  This will be a record breaking season …. Move over Swenson your 23 loss record season going down

The 6-26 season is still the worst in terms of losses from 2011-12. But, that team developed into the 2013-2014 squad that began 6 years of the most success Tribe basketball has had. Prior to that, Tony had the 2008 CAA tourney run and the great 2009-10 team that could have gotten an at large invite. Dane does not have any prior success to fall back on. Hopefully, things will get a lot better for next season. But, with the transfer portal, it is impossible to even know what next season will look like yet.

Consistency really helps. Look at how much improvement David Cohn, Marcus Thornton, Justin Pierce, and Terry Tarpey had within the system Tony had. I don't know what Dane's system is yet. Some of that is attributable to COVID basically making 2021 a lost year and to the mix of prior staff talent in 2020(where he did a great job). This is the first year where most of the games are being played and with players he recruited. It hasn't gone well, but it is still uncertain how much youth and inexperience are a factor. Perhaps this year doesn't bother me as much as some of you because as fans we lived it already for 15 years from 1988 to 2002. The Rowe/Keener round is not where you want to be. But things can change fast now, look at UNCW. They lost to us in the play in last year, and now they might be the #1 seed.

It's debatable that he did a great job in 2020. He got credit for letting Knight and Van Vliet play from the perimeter like they wanted to, but he was dealing with seniors who had 3 years experience to build on. I'd argue that the difference between that team being good (like they were) and great was squandered by a lack of offensive creativity. Being his first season, it was hard to pin that on Fischer, because there was no way to tell whether that was on the coaches or whether it was just a difficult situation. Given the next two seasons, it's hard not to look at that season in a harsher light. Being a players' coach is fine, but when you have freshmen you have to be the coach, not their friend. It's a little ironic how little we've used the portal, considering that all the evidence right now is that Coach Fischer needs established players in order to be successful.