(02-14-2022 12:09 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 02:15 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 09:06 AM)Bobcats2011 Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 08:40 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  Guess I’m in the minority because I wouldn’t have minded Liberty in the SBC.

Yeah me neither… isn’t Liberty have a better product on the field than ODU and JMU? I’ve heard people don’t want to deal with the faith based administration.

Has nothing to do with "Faith Based" and everything to do with scandal after scandal after scandal. OOO and the fact they are an online degree mill. Even on their website they promise you can get a masters degree in six weeks. Plus they teach unfounded classes like creationism as a science class. And that isn't even scratching the surface of why no one wants to deal with Liberty if they have a healthy conference.

Well I looked into Liberty potentially for a M.A. and I never seen anything about a 6 weeks Masters. (Not saying you’re lying). If a Evangelical school teaches creationism as science that shouldn’t be shocking, to be honest.

When a school tells a geology or astronomy professor they have to sign a statement that they think the earth is a few thousand years old, that’s a problem.

Even at the infamous Scopes Monkey trial it was conceded the earth was millions of years old.

(02-14-2022 12:41 AM)hotrod2001 Wrote:  Of all the schools out there, if you were to ask someone who they think the NCAA would nail with a Lack of Institutional Control charge they would probably be near the top. Falwell was problematic as its head, now that he's gone that makes the situation a little better but you have these stories like them essentially bribing the SBC schools with donations to get an invite, being a diploma mill, and black athletes transferring out of there citing racial insensitivity and it's a risky buy. And that's not even touching the political lightning rod the place has become.

When we were in the SOCON, we had a few faith-based members (Wofford-Methodist, Furman-Southern Baptist, Elon-Formerly Southern Christian Conference, Davidson-Presbyterian) and there was never any sort of controversy that came out of those schools the way Liberty has. My former boss was also from Bedford/Lynchburg and basically had said there is common knowledge that athletics have a different set of rules than the rest of the student body, and by different set of rules I mean lots of blind eyes being turned.

I do wonder if they think they can influence the rest of CUSA when they come in. I mean would they bankroll places like FIU whose lack of resources are public knowledge? I mean when you've got $2.5 billion in assets what's a few hundred thousand dollars for new shoulder pads and jerseys as a goodwill gesture? Sam Houston State doesn't have adequate infrastructure in place for an FBS move? We'll just finance some expansion projects for you. MSTU needs some renovations to fix their grandstands, here's a few hundred thousand. I don't know, I just see them using a lot of their money and influence to dictate to Judy how to run things in CUSA. And I just can't support that or do anything that somehow transfers money from my bank account to that university unless I'm convinced otherwise.

Everything you said here is a 100% concern. On top of that Liberty is a private school and does not have to report their financial records to the NCAA. Just another couple or three reasons I hope we stay far away from Lynchburg VA.

(02-14-2022 12:41 AM)hotrod2001 Wrote:  I do wonder if they think they can influence the rest of CUSA when they come in. I mean would they bankroll places like FIU whose lack of resources are public knowledge? I mean when you've got $2.5 billion in assets what's a few hundred thousand dollars for new shoulder pads and jerseys as a goodwill gesture? Sam Houston State doesn't have adequate infrastructure in place for an FBS move? We'll just finance some expansion projects for you. MSTU needs some renovations to fix their grandstands, here's a few hundred thousand. I don't know, I just see them using a lot of their money and influence to dictate to Judy how to run things in CUSA. And I just can't support that or do anything that somehow transfers money from my bank account to that university unless I'm convinced otherwise.

Would they try that? CAN they do that? I'm sure there's a loophole somewhere.
I know they have deep pockets, but that could create an interesting dynamic. The biggest question would be then, would that improve the profile of the league? I wouldn't want to be in debt to em and hitch my wagon to em just for being Daddy Warbucks to the conference.

It also makes a lot of sense. Run a city (or a conference in this case) into the ground, the mob is bound to take over

(02-14-2022 12:43 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 12:09 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 02:15 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 09:06 AM)Bobcats2011 Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 08:40 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  Guess I’m in the minority because I wouldn’t have minded Liberty in the SBC.

Yeah me neither… isn’t Liberty have a better product on the field than ODU and JMU? I’ve heard people don’t want to deal with the faith based administration.

Has nothing to do with "Faith Based" and everything to do with scandal after scandal after scandal. OOO and the fact they are an online degree mill. Even on their website they promise you can get a masters degree in six weeks. Plus they teach unfounded classes like creationism as a science class. And that isn't even scratching the surface of why no one wants to deal with Liberty if they have a healthy conference.

Well I looked into Liberty potentially for a M.A. and I never seen anything about a 6 weeks Masters. (Not saying you’re lying). If a Evangelical school teaches creationism as science that shouldn’t be shocking, to be honest.

When a school tells a geology or astronomy professor they have to sign a statement that they think the earth is a few thousand years old, that’s a problem.

Even at the infamous Scopes Monkey trial it was conceded the earth was millions of years old.

It’s only a problem for people who don’t agree. Again, I’m not here to debate non-football or SBC sports related issues. Young earth creation is a widely held belief amongst conservative Christian scholars / theologians. Therefore it’s not surprising that Liberty teaches that and wants to teach it that way.

(02-14-2022 02:08 AM)HerdFanGuest Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 12:41 AM)hotrod2001 Wrote:  I do wonder if they think they can influence the rest of CUSA when they come in. I mean would they bankroll places like FIU whose lack of resources are public knowledge? I mean when you've got $2.5 billion in assets what's a few hundred thousand dollars for new shoulder pads and jerseys as a goodwill gesture? Sam Houston State doesn't have adequate infrastructure in place for an FBS move? We'll just finance some expansion projects for you. MSTU needs some renovations to fix their grandstands, here's a few hundred thousand. I don't know, I just see them using a lot of their money and influence to dictate to Judy how to run things in CUSA. And I just can't support that or do anything that somehow transfers money from my bank account to that university unless I'm convinced otherwise.

Would they try that? CAN they do that? I'm sure there's a loophole somewhere.
I know they have deep pockets, but that could create an interesting dynamic. The biggest question would be then, would that improve the profile of the league? I wouldn't want to be in debt to em and hitch my wagon to em just for being Daddy Warbucks to the conference.

It also makes a lot of sense. Run a city (or a conference in this case) into the ground, the mob is bound to take over

Falwell told the Sun Belt presidents just after CCU joined let us in and I will fund a project on your campus

the liberty endowment grew from 10 million to 2.5 billion in 10-12 years and that is just the endowment

and that vis just 1 place they are "stockpiling" they are making up ways to spend it

(02-14-2022 02:08 AM)HerdFanGuest Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 12:41 AM)hotrod2001 Wrote:  I do wonder if they think they can influence the rest of CUSA when they come in. I mean would they bankroll places like FIU whose lack of resources are public knowledge? I mean when you've got $2.5 billion in assets what's a few hundred thousand dollars for new shoulder pads and jerseys as a goodwill gesture? Sam Houston State doesn't have adequate infrastructure in place for an FBS move? We'll just finance some expansion projects for you. MSTU needs some renovations to fix their grandstands, here's a few hundred thousand. I don't know, I just see them using a lot of their money and influence to dictate to Judy how to run things in CUSA. And I just can't support that or do anything that somehow transfers money from my bank account to that university unless I'm convinced otherwise.

Would they try that? CAN they do that? I'm sure there's a loophole somewhere.
I know they have deep pockets, but that could create an interesting dynamic. The biggest question would be then, would that improve the profile of the league? I wouldn't want to be in debt to em and hitch my wagon to em just for being Daddy Warbucks to the conference.

It also makes a lot of sense. Run a city (or a conference in this case) into the ground, the mob is bound to take over

They're coming into a conference whose about to lose 80% of their members, will probably be signed to a terrible tv contract and is run by probably the most incompetent commissioner in the NCAA. Don't think there wouldn't be a lot of temptation if lush funding in the guise of donations suddenly began to pour in from various developers, hotels and dealers.

You look at what Politico article that came out the other year about how Falwell does business in Lynchburg and there's there's more red flags waving than at the Beijing Olympics. The article and others like it asked several college law professors about it, and although they say it's technically legal, it's not exactly kosher from an ethics standpoint.

I think it's safe to say, it ain't our problem.

(02-14-2022 08:56 AM)Tealblood Wrote:  Falwell told the Sun Belt presidents just after CCU joined let us in and I will fund a project on your campus

New pool complexes for everyone!

(02-14-2022 08:56 AM)Tealblood Wrote:  Falwell told the Sun Belt presidents just after CCU joined let us in and I will fund a project on your campus

the liberty endowment grew from 10 million to 2.5 billion in 10-12 years and that is just the endowment

and that vis just 1 place they are "stockpiling" they are making up ways to spend it

That's a suspiciously huge jump that decade.
You'd think given they're claim to religion they wouldn't be openly corrupt

(02-14-2022 09:00 AM)hotrod2001 Wrote:  They're coming into a conference whose about to lose 80% of their members, will probably be signed to a terrible tv contract and is run by probably the most incompetent commissioner in the NCAA. Don't think there wouldn't be a lot of temptation if lush funding in the guise of donations suddenly began to pour in from various developers, hotels and dealers.

You look at what Politico article that came out the other year about how Falwell does business in Lynchburg and there's there's more red flags waving than at the Beijing Olympics. The article and others like it asked several college law professors about it, and although they say it's technically legal, it's not exactly kosher from an ethics standpoint.

I'm always worried about today's "hit" jobs in media; everyone has an angle and there's always a lot left out. That said, from what everyone has said on this board about em, I might have to check that out.
The Temptation would definitely be there and I could see Tech and maybe an FIU taking that bait and pledging allegiance.

It'd be interesting to see if the NCAA does hit em for theory violations in the next decade

(02-14-2022 10:03 AM)rokamortis Wrote:  New pool complexes for everyone!

More pool boys for Baby Falwell !!

(02-14-2022 08:23 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 12:43 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 12:09 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 02:15 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 09:06 AM)Bobcats2011 Wrote:  Yeah me neither… isn’t Liberty have a better product on the field than ODU and JMU? I’ve heard people don’t want to deal with the faith based administration.

Has nothing to do with "Faith Based" and everything to do with scandal after scandal after scandal. OOO and the fact they are an online degree mill. Even on their website they promise you can get a masters degree in six weeks. Plus they teach unfounded classes like creationism as a science class. And that isn't even scratching the surface of why no one wants to deal with Liberty if they have a healthy conference.

Well I looked into Liberty potentially for a M.A. and I never seen anything about a 6 weeks Masters. (Not saying you’re lying). If a Evangelical school teaches creationism as science that shouldn’t be shocking, to be honest.

When a school tells a geology or astronomy professor they have to sign a statement that they think the earth is a few thousand years old, that’s a problem.

Even at the infamous Scopes Monkey trial it was conceded the earth was millions of years old.

It’s only a problem for people who don’t agree. Again, I’m not here to debate non-football or SBC sports related issues. Young earth creation is a widely held belief amongst conservative Christian scholars / theologians. Therefore it’s not surprising that Liberty teaches that and wants to teach it that way.

A belief that has been objectively proven wrong again and again should not be taught as fact at an institute of higher learning. Plenty of faith-based universities have managed to teach real science. Perpetuating an inaccurate myth doesn't help anyone.

(02-14-2022 10:36 AM)HerdFanGuest Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 08:56 AM)Tealblood Wrote:  Falwell told the Sun Belt presidents just after CCU joined let us in and I will fund a project on your campus

the liberty endowment grew from 10 million to 2.5 billion in 10-12 years and that is just the endowment

and that vis just 1 place they are "stockpiling" they are making up ways to spend it

That's a suspiciously huge jump that decade.
You'd think given they're claim to religion they wouldn't be openly corrupt

Liberty has an "interesting" or "unusual" operating model to say the least. It's effectively a non-profit "real university" that owns a for-profit online diploma mill, which funds the operations and endowment of the "real university". It's a very successful online diploma mill, because Liberty has successfully leveraged its strong reputation and brand with evangelicals to market these online degrees nationally while keeping their costs very low. This operating model has effectively converted Liberty from a little evangelical school to a major education corporation.

(02-14-2022 08:23 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 12:43 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 12:09 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 02:15 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 09:06 AM)Bobcats2011 Wrote:  Yeah me neither… isn’t Liberty have a better product on the field than ODU and JMU? I’ve heard people don’t want to deal with the faith based administration.

Has nothing to do with "Faith Based" and everything to do with scandal after scandal after scandal. OOO and the fact they are an online degree mill. Even on their website they promise you can get a masters degree in six weeks. Plus they teach unfounded classes like creationism as a science class. And that isn't even scratching the surface of why no one wants to deal with Liberty if they have a healthy conference.

Well I looked into Liberty potentially for a M.A. and I never seen anything about a 6 weeks Masters. (Not saying you’re lying). If a Evangelical school teaches creationism as science that shouldn’t be shocking, to be honest.

When a school tells a geology or astronomy professor they have to sign a statement that they think the earth is a few thousand years old, that’s a problem.

Even at the infamous Scopes Monkey trial it was conceded the earth was millions of years old.

It’s only a problem for people who don’t agree. Again, I’m not here to debate non-football or SBC sports related issues. Young earth creation is a widely held belief amongst conservative Christian scholars / theologians. Therefore it’s not surprising that Liberty teaches that and wants to teach it that way.

Puuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuulease..... Teaching something that is factually inaccurate and known to be false should be enough to have your higher learning credentials pulled. If you are one of the young earth creationist yourself, then I suggest you pick up a science book and actually learn about reality. If you are just playing "Devil's Advocate" then you are just misinformed and 100% wrong.

Ive said it over and over that higher learning and the bible can not go together. At some point one will out weigh the other. You will either be an academic or a theist but you can never be both.

(02-14-2022 12:00 PM)We Are the Dukes of JMU Wrote:  Liberty has an "interesting" or "unusual" operating model to say the least. It's effectively a non-profit "real university" that owns a for-profit online diploma mill, which funds the operations and endowment of the "real university". It's a very successful online diploma mill, because Liberty has successfully leveraged its strong reputation and brand with evangelicals to market these online degrees nationally while keeping their costs very low. This operating model has effectively converted Liberty from a little evangelical school to a major education corporation.

Sounds like Devry + ITT with an athletic department and a Baptistery being ran by Michael Franzcse

(02-14-2022 10:40 AM)HerdFanGuest Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 09:00 AM)hotrod2001 Wrote:  They're coming into a conference whose about to lose 80% of their members, will probably be signed to a terrible tv contract and is run by probably the most incompetent commissioner in the NCAA. Don't think there wouldn't be a lot of temptation if lush funding in the guise of donations suddenly began to pour in from various developers, hotels and dealers.

You look at what Politico article that came out the other year about how Falwell does business in Lynchburg and there's there's more red flags waving than at the Beijing Olympics. The article and others like it asked several college law professors about it, and although they say it's technically legal, it's not exactly kosher from an ethics standpoint.

I'm always worried about today's "hit" jobs in media; everyone has an angle and there's always a lot left out. That said, from what everyone has said on this board about em, I might have to check that out.
The Temptation would definitely be there and I could see Tech and maybe an FIU taking that bait and pledging allegiance.

It'd be interesting to see if the NCAA does hit em for theory violations in the next decade

Politics aside, Liberty has shown to be a well-resourced sports program both on and off the field. The fact that no G5 has touched them, and in the case of this conference, skipped over them in favor of an FCS team an hour and a half north of them in the same neighborhood, should be telling that there is probably a good reason for it.

(02-14-2022 12:04 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 08:23 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 12:43 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 12:09 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 02:15 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  Has nothing to do with "Faith Based" and everything to do with scandal after scandal after scandal. OOO and the fact they are an online degree mill. Even on their website they promise you can get a masters degree in six weeks. Plus they teach unfounded classes like creationism as a science class. And that isn't even scratching the surface of why no one wants to deal with Liberty if they have a healthy conference.

Well I looked into Liberty potentially for a M.A. and I never seen anything about a 6 weeks Masters. (Not saying you’re lying). If a Evangelical school teaches creationism as science that shouldn’t be shocking, to be honest.

When a school tells a geology or astronomy professor they have to sign a statement that they think the earth is a few thousand years old, that’s a problem.

Even at the infamous Scopes Monkey trial it was conceded the earth was millions of years old.

It’s only a problem for people who don’t agree. Again, I’m not here to debate non-football or SBC sports related issues. Young earth creation is a widely held belief amongst conservative Christian scholars / theologians. Therefore it’s not surprising that Liberty teaches that and wants to teach it that way.

Puuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuulease.....Teaching something that is factually inaccurate and known to be false should be enough to have your higher learning credentials pulled. If you are one of the young earth creationist yourself, then I suggest you pick up a science book and actually learn about reality. If you are just playing "Devil's Advocate" then you are just misinformed and 100% wrong.

Ive said it over and over that higher learning and the bible can not go together. At some point one will out weigh the other. You will either be an academic or a theist but you can never be both.

Academic theist do exist. I'm not here to argue religious belief because every man and woman has the right to believe what he or she wants. I'm not a scientist but there are definitely scientific issues that exist that cannot be explain, i.e. miracles. Again, I don't want to debate. I don't like debating these issues.

At the end of the day Liberty is not a member of the Sun Belt and I think as a group of message board posters we should get bashing them every second we get and bringing them up all the time.

(02-14-2022 11:45 AM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 08:23 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 12:43 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 12:09 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 02:15 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  Has nothing to do with "Faith Based" and everything to do with scandal after scandal after scandal. OOO and the fact they are an online degree mill. Even on their website they promise you can get a masters degree in six weeks. Plus they teach unfounded classes like creationism as a science class. And that isn't even scratching the surface of why no one wants to deal with Liberty if they have a healthy conference.

Well I looked into Liberty potentially for a M.A. and I never seen anything about a 6 weeks Masters. (Not saying you’re lying). If a Evangelical school teaches creationism as science that shouldn’t be shocking, to be honest.

When a school tells a geology or astronomy professor they have to sign a statement that they think the earth is a few thousand years old, that’s a problem.

Even at the infamous Scopes Monkey trial it was conceded the earth was millions of years old.

It’s only a problem for people who don’t agree. Again, I’m not here to debate non-football or SBC sports related issues. Young earth creation is a widely held belief amongst conservative Christian scholars / theologians. Therefore it’s not surprising that Liberty teaches that and wants to teach it that way.

A belief that has been objectively proven wrong again and again should not be taught as fact at an institute of higher learning. Plenty of faith-based universities have managed to teach real science. Perpetuating an inaccurate myth doesn't help anyone.

See I believe this type of rhetoric is just rude to faith based communities. Like in my discourse with HZ, I don't believe in debating this because I'm not the most qualified also I believe we should avoid these discussions on the message boards.

(02-14-2022 12:10 PM)hotrod2001 Wrote:  Politics aside, Liberty has shown to be a well-resourced sports program both on and off the field. The fact that no G5 has touched them, and in the case of this conference, skipped over them in favor of an FCS team an hour and a half north of them in the same neighborhood, should be telling that there is probably a good reason for it.

I don't ever see a healthy conference ever calling Liberty for membership. If and when they ever jump conferences again it will be for what they think is a better name than CUSA. But you can bet that conference has been gutted and most likely that some of the same programs in CUSA would be headed there too.

Liberty has way to much baggage and the Falwell name isn't going to go away anytime soon. And for the perception to change the university will have to back track and let go of a lot of Falwell instituted practices. My question would be, how long will that take. As long as Baby Falwell is alive I don't see that happening. On paper and in the real life seeing, Baby Falwell may not have anything to do with Liberty. In the shadows you can almost bet he has his fingers still in the pie.

(02-14-2022 12:00 PM)We Are the Dukes of JMU Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 10:36 AM)HerdFanGuest Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 08:56 AM)Tealblood Wrote:  Falwell told the Sun Belt presidents just after CCU joined let us in and I will fund a project on your campus

the liberty endowment grew from 10 million to 2.5 billion in 10-12 years and that is just the endowment

and that vis just 1 place they are "stockpiling" they are making up ways to spend it

That's a suspiciously huge jump that decade.
You'd think given they're claim to religion they wouldn't be openly corrupt

Liberty has an "interesting" or "unusual" operating model to say the least. It's effectively a non-profit "real university" that owns a for-profit online diploma mill, which funds the operations and endowment of the "real university". It's a very successful online diploma mill, because Liberty has successfully leveraged its strong reputation and brand with evangelicals to market these online degrees nationally while keeping their costs very low. This operating model has effectively converted Liberty from a little evangelical school to a major education corporation.

my main concern with the Flamers is that they would walk in and try to control everything with their money. Buy this and that and try to influence decisions with their bank account.