(02-14-2022 05:55 PM)ChooChoo Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 04:22 PM)Meathead Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 02:45 PM)Complacent Cajun Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 01:46 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  There's more proof in a creator than not. It takes a LOT of faith to believe in nothing. No wonder you are miserable. So miserable in fact, you are banned from all the Marshall message boards. I should have known.

As an agnostic that was raised Christian, would you be willing to share some of this proof?

I thought Lee Strobel made a decent case for a creator in his book... here is a short read if you are interested... https://www.focusonthefamily.com/faith/t...a-creator/

You can always count on any mention of Liberty ending up in these discussions. Fact is that Liberty has formidable sports programs and excellent facilities. I think they are fun to play and root against. I'm kind of glad they didn't end up in the SBC mostly because nobody can spend the money they can, and who knows how that will look in the NIL era. Regardless, I fully expect them to own CUSA... it will be interesting to watch!

Pardon the interruption, I have 2 cents I’d like to share. I agree, Liberty is a private and we are all public schools. That they have different institutional goals and the potential to out spend us should be the primary reasons we excluded them from our reindeer games.
As a former youth pastor of 11 years I would like to say that I do not believe that salvation is predicated on if we believe in a young earth, if a man survived inside a giant fish/whale, or whether Jesus rode in on a horse or a mule. The events of the crucifixion and John 3:16 should put all that to rest in my opinion. A classic example of not seeing the forest for the trees. I may be accused of picking and choosing but I believe science and faith can coexist. Here’s an extra 2 cents.
Go Panthers

Agreed. I guess I was trying to clarify myself on why Liberty says what they do and was unable to articulate that well.

(02-14-2022 05:57 PM)OsageJ Wrote:  I always hear Liberty will own the conference they will join. My problem is they never have. Why would it start now? The ego maniac that run the place is gone. I would have expected that when he was there.

What remains of CUSA isn’t particularly competitive, in pretty much ever sport. Liberty will significantly outspend the entire conference and will dominate in most sports.

I hate to say it, but it will be their conference moving forward. Maybe they want it that way. A near guaranteed autobid in every sport.

(02-14-2022 05:46 PM)Complacent Cajun Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 04:22 PM)Meathead Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 02:45 PM)Complacent Cajun Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 01:46 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  There's more proof in a creator than not. It takes a LOT of faith to believe in nothing. No wonder you are miserable. So miserable in fact, you are banned from all the Marshall message boards. I should have known.

As an agnostic that was raised Christian, would you be willing to share some of this proof?

I thought Lee Strobel made a decent case for a creator in his book... here is a short read if you are interested... https://www.focusonthefamily.com/faith/t...a-creator/

You can always count on any mention of Liberty ending up in these discussions. Fact is that Liberty has formidable sports programs and excellent facilities. I think they are fun to play and root against. I'm kind of glad they didn't end up in the SBC mostly because nobody can spend the money they can, and who knows how that will look in the NIL era. Regardless, I fully expect them to own CUSA... it will be interesting to watch!

Appreciate the link/response. Something I struggle with is the concept of a personal God/creator. It's easier for me to accept that God created the laws of physics, and just set everything in motion. But it's always been hard for me to accept that there's a personal God that can interfere on our behalf (through prayer/etc.) with all the suffering in the world. Just my own internal conflict I have, not trying to prove/disprove anything.

Sorry mods for going off-topic.

This went off topic far before you politely asked a question :)

(02-14-2022 12:40 PM)FrankyP Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 12:10 PM)hotrod2001 Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 10:40 AM)HerdFanGuest Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 09:00 AM)hotrod2001 Wrote:  They're coming into a conference whose about to lose 80% of their members, will probably be signed to a terrible tv contract and is run by probably the most incompetent commissioner in the NCAA. Don't think there wouldn't be a lot of temptation if lush funding in the guise of donations suddenly began to pour in from various developers, hotels and dealers.

You look at what Politico article that came out the other year about how Falwell does business in Lynchburg and there's there's more red flags waving than at the Beijing Olympics. The article and others like it asked several college law professors about it, and although they say it's technically legal, it's not exactly kosher from an ethics standpoint.

I'm always worried about today's "hit" jobs in media; everyone has an angle and there's always a lot left out. That said, from what everyone has said on this board about em, I might have to check that out.
The Temptation would definitely be there and I could see Tech and maybe an FIU taking that bait and pledging allegiance.

It'd be interesting to see if the NCAA does hit em for theory violations in the next decade

Politics aside, Liberty has shown to be a well-resourced sports program both on and off the field. The fact that no G5 has touched them, and in the case of this conference, skipped over them in favor of an FCS team an hour and a half north of them in the same neighborhood, should be telling that there is probably a good reason for it.

This. A thousand times this.

Only C-ICU, who was in such dire straits, want anything to do with that ‘school.’ Whether you look at it from an academic, religious or ethical standpoint, they stink to high heaven. And yes, pun intended.

Didn't your school schedule them.

(02-14-2022 11:45 AM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 08:23 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 12:43 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 12:09 AM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  

(02-13-2022 02:15 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  Has nothing to do with "Faith Based" and everything to do with scandal after scandal after scandal. OOO and the fact they are an online degree mill. Even on their website they promise you can get a masters degree in six weeks. Plus they teach unfounded classes like creationism as a science class. And that isn't even scratching the surface of why no one wants to deal with Liberty if they have a healthy conference.

Well I looked into Liberty potentially for a M.A. and I never seen anything about a 6 weeks Masters. (Not saying you’re lying). If a Evangelical school teaches creationism as science that shouldn’t be shocking, to be honest.

When a school tells a geology or astronomy professor they have to sign a statement that they think the earth is a few thousand years old, that’s a problem.

Even at the infamous Scopes Monkey trial it was conceded the earth was millions of years old.

It’s only a problem for people who don’t agree. Again, I’m not here to debate non-football or SBC sports related issues. Young earth creation is a widely held belief amongst conservative Christian scholars / theologians. Therefore it’s not surprising that Liberty teaches that and wants to teach it that way.

A belief that has been objectively proven wrong again and again should not be taught as fact at an institute of higher learning. Plenty of faith-based universities have managed to teach real science. Perpetuating an inaccurate myth doesn't help anyone.

I grew up in the late 70’s and early 80’s and it was unusual to hear support for the idea the world is 10,000 years old or newer, it was about so small that it was a fringe belief and pretty much concentrated in churches that didn’t require or expect formal education.

The Genesis day being strictly 24 hours has literally been a multi-millennium discussion.

Second century Christian writings spoke of Genesis being allegorical regarding creation and was fairly well known in the fourth century.

By the mid 19th century old earth creation was becoming the norm among Christians who accepted the conclusions that the earth was billions of years old.

100 years ago, old earth creation was more widely accepted that it is today, a truly remarkable change.

(02-14-2022 05:55 PM)ChooChoo Wrote:  Pardon the interruption, I have 2 cents I’d like to share. I agree, Liberty is a private and we are all public schools. That they have different institutional goals and the potential to out spend us should be the primary reasons we excluded them from our reindeer games.
As a former youth pastor of 11 years I would like to say that I do not believe that salvation is predicated on if we believe in a young earth, if a man survived inside a giant fish/whale, or whether Jesus rode in on a horse or a mule. The events of the crucifixion and John 3:16 should put all that to rest in my opinion. A classic example of not seeing the forest for the trees. I may be accused of picking and choosing but I believe science and faith can coexist. Here’s an extra 2 cents.
Go Panthers

I taught freshman science (entry-level physics & chemistry) at a Catholic high school for 3 years. I forget when exactly, but somewhere along the way, I decided the relationship between science & religion was a worthwhile thing to spend a few days discussing in an introductory class full of new students. I even borrowed a Creationist Science/Young Earth publication an acquaintance had and used it for a conversation starter. In the end, the point I wanted to get across was there’s a lot of things we know for sure, and there’s a lot of things we don’t. Also, perhaps given Jesus’ own affinity for using parables to make a point, taking every word of every story in the Bible—which mind you, was originally written for people far simpler than we are today—literally is done so at your own risk.

“Let there be light” is a heck of a lot easier way to explain the birth of stars to somebody than going into the ins & outs of nuclear fusion. Genesis tells us different types of animals came to be in sequential order, with fish & birds ahead of mammals? Hmmm. That sounds familiar. Human and chicken embyos look exactly alike because they start off with the same cellular & genetic blueprint, as if every living thing ultimately arose from the same source? Interesting.

Never mind direct conflict, there are numerous instances of science & theology actually backing up each other if you’ll open your eyes and be receptive to the idea. As you say though, people get so caught up in the details, they miss the big picture.

Well, I held off for a while, but I think it’s time to move this to the smack board. Liberty, religion, politics… yeah, let’s move it.

(02-15-2022 07:29 AM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  Well, I held off for a while, but I think it’s time to move this to the smack board. Liberty, religion, politics… yeah, let’s move it.

Sorry about that Skully! At least it was mostly peaceful discourse that needed to be redirected and not straight vitriol.

Too bad this got moved. I just found it and it had gotten even more interesting since yesterday.

(02-15-2022 01:14 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  Too bad this got moved. I just found it and it had gotten even more interesting since yesterday.

Liberty related threads tend to always find their way here. I wish the Smack Board was more active because these conversations could continue without having to inundate the main board for those that don’t care to see it.

(02-15-2022 12:19 AM)HarborPointe Wrote:  

(02-14-2022 05:55 PM)ChooChoo Wrote:  Pardon the interruption, I have 2 cents I’d like to share. I agree, Liberty is a private and we are all public schools. That they have different institutional goals and the potential to out spend us should be the primary reasons we excluded them from our reindeer games.
As a former youth pastor of 11 years I would like to say that I do not believe that salvation is predicated on if we believe in a young earth, if a man survived inside a giant fish/whale, or whether Jesus rode in on a horse or a mule. The events of the crucifixion and John 3:16 should put all that to rest in my opinion. A classic example of not seeing the forest for the trees. I may be accused of picking and choosing but I believe science and faith can coexist. Here’s an extra 2 cents.
Go Panthers

I taught freshman science (entry-level physics & chemistry) at a Catholic high school for 3 years. I forget when exactly, but somewhere along the way, I decided the relationship between science & religion was a worthwhile thing to spend a few days discussing in an introductory class full of new students. I even borrowed a Creationist Science/Young Earth publication an acquaintance had and used it for a conversation starter. In the end, the point I wanted to get across was there’s a lot of things we know for sure, and there’s a lot of things we don’t. Also, perhaps given Jesus’ own affinity for using parables to make a point, taking every word of every story in the Bible—which mind you, was originally written for people far simpler than we are today—literally is done so at your own risk.

“Let there be light” is a heck of a lot easier way to explain the birth of stars to somebody than going into the ins & outs of nuclear fusion. Genesis tells us different types of animals came to be in sequential order, with fish & birds ahead of mammals? Hmmm. That sounds familiar. Human and chicken embyos look exactly alike because they start off with the same cellular & genetic blueprint, as if every living thing ultimately arose from the same source? Interesting.

Never mind direct conflict, there are numerous instances of science & theology actually backing up each other if you’ll open your eyes and be receptive to the idea. As you say though, people get so caught up in the details, they miss the big picture.

Excellent post and one that mirrors my own views. Faith should not be taught as science but of course, science cannot prove or disprove someone's faith. Faith is or should be a very personal thing.
People who take the Bible to be a history book rather than a teaching book have to do some serious mental gymnastics to support their worldview. And, in my view, they do not have to support their faith, UNTIL they try to replace science with it. Or make laws based on Christian faith.