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Interesting idea from Stewart Mandel
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #1
Interesting idea from Stewart Mandel
https://theathletic.com/3095820/2022/01/...ed_article

* Make week 0 week 1.
* make CCG time the Saturday after Thanksgiving
* make following weekend Army/Navy
* make following weekend 1st round of playoffs
* make following weekend QF round of playoffs
* semifinals both on NY Day. Rose always along with 1 of Sugar, Orange, Peach, Cotton, Fiesta
* championship game remains as currently scheduled. location always 1 of Sugar, Orange, Peach, Cotton, Fiesta

I like this set up a lot. And yeah, it does away with trying to compete with the NFL Playoffs totally.
01-27-2022 10:55 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Interesting idea from Stewart Mandel
(01-27-2022 10:55 AM)stever20 Wrote:  https://theathletic.com/3095820/2022/01/...ed_article

* Make week 0 week 1.
* make CCG time the Saturday after Thanksgiving
* make following weekend Army/Navy
* make following weekend 1st round of playoffs
* make following weekend QF round of playoffs
* semifinals both on NY Day. Rose always along with 1 of Sugar, Orange, Peach, Cotton, Fiesta
* championship game remains as currently scheduled. location always 1 of Sugar, Orange, Peach, Cotton, Fiesta

I like this set up a lot. And yeah, it does away with trying to compete with the NFL Playoffs totally.

This year that would make the first playoff round on December 10th and the QF round on December 17th. It's a good thing football players are exempt from final exams.
01-27-2022 11:12 AM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Interesting idea from Stewart Mandel
(01-27-2022 11:12 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(01-27-2022 10:55 AM)stever20 Wrote:  https://theathletic.com/3095820/2022/01/...ed_article

* Make week 0 week 1.
* make CCG time the Saturday after Thanksgiving
* make following weekend Army/Navy
* make following weekend 1st round of playoffs
* make following weekend QF round of playoffs
* semifinals both on NY Day. Rose always along with 1 of Sugar, Orange, Peach, Cotton, Fiesta
* championship game remains as currently scheduled. location always 1 of Sugar, Orange, Peach, Cotton, Fiesta

I like this set up a lot. And yeah, it does away with trying to compete with the NFL Playoffs totally.

This year that would make the first playoff round on December 10th and the QF round on December 17th. It's a good thing football players are exempt from final exams.

Players had no problems with that issue in Fall of 2020 now did they?
01-27-2022 11:15 AM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Interesting idea from Stewart Mandel
(01-27-2022 11:15 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(01-27-2022 11:12 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(01-27-2022 10:55 AM)stever20 Wrote:  https://theathletic.com/3095820/2022/01/...ed_article

* Make week 0 week 1.
* make CCG time the Saturday after Thanksgiving
* make following weekend Army/Navy
* make following weekend 1st round of playoffs
* make following weekend QF round of playoffs
* semifinals both on NY Day. Rose always along with 1 of Sugar, Orange, Peach, Cotton, Fiesta
* championship game remains as currently scheduled. location always 1 of Sugar, Orange, Peach, Cotton, Fiesta

I like this set up a lot. And yeah, it does away with trying to compete with the NFL Playoffs totally.

This year that would make the first playoff round on December 10th and the QF round on December 17th. It's a good thing football players are exempt from final exams.

Players had no problems with that issue in Fall of 2020 now did they?

His plan would require everyone giving up one of their 12 games to accommodate the CCGs

That might be a deal breaker for a lot of teams.
01-27-2022 11:36 AM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Interesting idea from Stewart Mandel
(01-27-2022 11:36 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(01-27-2022 11:15 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(01-27-2022 11:12 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(01-27-2022 10:55 AM)stever20 Wrote:  https://theathletic.com/3095820/2022/01/...ed_article

* Make week 0 week 1.
* make CCG time the Saturday after Thanksgiving
* make following weekend Army/Navy
* make following weekend 1st round of playoffs
* make following weekend QF round of playoffs
* semifinals both on NY Day. Rose always along with 1 of Sugar, Orange, Peach, Cotton, Fiesta
* championship game remains as currently scheduled. location always 1 of Sugar, Orange, Peach, Cotton, Fiesta

I like this set up a lot. And yeah, it does away with trying to compete with the NFL Playoffs totally.

This year that would make the first playoff round on December 10th and the QF round on December 17th. It's a good thing football players are exempt from final exams.

Players had no problems with that issue in Fall of 2020 now did they?

His plan would require everyone giving up one of their 12 games to accommodate the CCGs

That might be a deal breaker for a lot of teams.
no it would not. week 0 would become a normal week and teams would have 13 weeks to play their 12 games.
01-27-2022 11:38 AM
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CarlSmithCenter Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Interesting idea from Stewart Mandel
(01-27-2022 11:15 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(01-27-2022 11:12 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(01-27-2022 10:55 AM)stever20 Wrote:  https://theathletic.com/3095820/2022/01/...ed_article

* Make week 0 week 1.
* make CCG time the Saturday after Thanksgiving
* make following weekend Army/Navy
* make following weekend 1st round of playoffs
* make following weekend QF round of playoffs
* semifinals both on NY Day. Rose always along with 1 of Sugar, Orange, Peach, Cotton, Fiesta
* championship game remains as currently scheduled. location always 1 of Sugar, Orange, Peach, Cotton, Fiesta

I like this set up a lot. And yeah, it does away with trying to compete with the NFL Playoffs totally.

This year that would make the first playoff round on December 10th and the QF round on December 17th. It's a good thing football players are exempt from final exams.

Players had no problems with that issue in Fall of 2020 now did they?

I wouldn’t use the Fall of 2020 as a litmus test for future changes. A lot of schools had pass/fail options and entirely virtual learning. Plus, holding some or all of the on-campus games on the 2nd and 3rd Saturdays in December will significantly diminish student attendance, not that the $$$ men care about that.

Why not move the CCGs to Thursday-Saturday of Thanksgiving Week, then play the 5-12, 6-11, 7-10, and 8-9 games on Friday and Saturday of the 1st weekend in December, leading into Army-Navy in Primetime. Then punt. The punt quarters to the third Saturday in December to compensate for exams, and hold the semis on NYE or January 1, followed by the CFB title the following week. This past year you’d have the opening round on 12/3, then an exam break with quarters on 12/17, followed by the semis and CFP title game as they actually happened.
01-27-2022 11:49 AM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Interesting idea from Stewart Mandel
(01-27-2022 11:38 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(01-27-2022 11:36 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(01-27-2022 11:15 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(01-27-2022 11:12 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(01-27-2022 10:55 AM)stever20 Wrote:  https://theathletic.com/3095820/2022/01/...ed_article

* Make week 0 week 1.
* make CCG time the Saturday after Thanksgiving
* make following weekend Army/Navy
* make following weekend 1st round of playoffs
* make following weekend QF round of playoffs
* semifinals both on NY Day. Rose always along with 1 of Sugar, Orange, Peach, Cotton, Fiesta
* championship game remains as currently scheduled. location always 1 of Sugar, Orange, Peach, Cotton, Fiesta

I like this set up a lot. And yeah, it does away with trying to compete with the NFL Playoffs totally.

This year that would make the first playoff round on December 10th and the QF round on December 17th. It's a good thing football players are exempt from final exams.

Players had no problems with that issue in Fall of 2020 now did they?

His plan would require everyone giving up one of their 12 games to accommodate the CCGs

That might be a deal breaker for a lot of teams.
no it would not. week 0 would become a normal week and teams would have 13 weeks to play their 12 games.
Per article:

Quote:I’d once again strongly recommend conferences adopt a flex-scheduling model where Championship Weekend becomes everyone’s 12th, not 13th, game.

Georgia-Alabama would have played in the title game, and the league would have created six other matchups of comparable cross-division opponents like Ole Miss vs. Kentucky, Arkansas vs. Tennessee and Auburn vs. Florida.

You could only schedule 3 OOC games and if you're in the championship game you potentially lose a home game
01-27-2022 11:52 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Interesting idea from Stewart Mandel
(01-27-2022 11:38 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(01-27-2022 11:36 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(01-27-2022 11:15 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(01-27-2022 11:12 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(01-27-2022 10:55 AM)stever20 Wrote:  https://theathletic.com/3095820/2022/01/...ed_article

* Make week 0 week 1.
* make CCG time the Saturday after Thanksgiving
* make following weekend Army/Navy
* make following weekend 1st round of playoffs
* make following weekend QF round of playoffs
* semifinals both on NY Day. Rose always along with 1 of Sugar, Orange, Peach, Cotton, Fiesta
* championship game remains as currently scheduled. location always 1 of Sugar, Orange, Peach, Cotton, Fiesta

I like this set up a lot. And yeah, it does away with trying to compete with the NFL Playoffs totally.

This year that would make the first playoff round on December 10th and the QF round on December 17th. It's a good thing football players are exempt from final exams.

Players had no problems with that issue in Fall of 2020 now did they?

His plan would require everyone giving up one of their 12 games to accommodate the CCGs

That might be a deal breaker for a lot of teams.
no it would not. week 0 would become a normal week and teams would have 13 weeks to play their 12 games.

Mandel threw in a recommendation to have flex scheduling for the last week of the season and having the CCG be the 12th game for the participating teams as opposed to a 13th game.

That being said, I agree with both of you: giving up the separate CCG would be a dealbreaker (as the Big Ten and SEC make more from their CCGs than their respective Rose Bowl and Sugar Bowl tie-ins at this point), but it's moot because all of the teams could have the same 13-week regular season schedule if the current week 0 becomes the new week 1 for everyone.

I have basically one rule for the viability for any playoff proposal: no one is giving up a single *penny* from the current regular season and CCGs. Whatever the new playoff system might be must be purely 100% additive to the current system. Any proposal that says that anyone is going to give up regular season games or CCGs in order to have an expanded playoff is DOA.
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2022 11:55 AM by Frank the Tank.)
01-27-2022 11:53 AM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Interesting idea from Stewart Mandel
(01-27-2022 11:49 AM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  
(01-27-2022 11:15 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(01-27-2022 11:12 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(01-27-2022 10:55 AM)stever20 Wrote:  https://theathletic.com/3095820/2022/01/...ed_article

* Make week 0 week 1.
* make CCG time the Saturday after Thanksgiving
* make following weekend Army/Navy
* make following weekend 1st round of playoffs
* make following weekend QF round of playoffs
* semifinals both on NY Day. Rose always along with 1 of Sugar, Orange, Peach, Cotton, Fiesta
* championship game remains as currently scheduled. location always 1 of Sugar, Orange, Peach, Cotton, Fiesta

I like this set up a lot. And yeah, it does away with trying to compete with the NFL Playoffs totally.

This year that would make the first playoff round on December 10th and the QF round on December 17th. It's a good thing football players are exempt from final exams.

Players had no problems with that issue in Fall of 2020 now did they?

I wouldn’t use the Fall of 2020 as a litmus test for future changes. A lot of schools had pass/fail options and entirely virtual learning. Plus, holding some or all of the on-campus games on the 2nd and 3rd Saturdays in December will significantly diminish student attendance, not that the $$$ men care about that.

Why not move the CCGs to Thursday-Saturday of Thanksgiving Week, then play the 5-12, 6-11, 7-10, and 8-9 games on Friday and Saturday of the 1st weekend in December, leading into Army-Navy in Primetime. Then punt. The punt quarters to the third Saturday in December to compensate for exams, and hold the semis on NYE or January 1, followed by the CFB title the following week. This past year you’d have the opening round on 12/3, then an exam break with quarters on 12/17, followed by the semis and CFP title game as they actually happened.

either way- having QF on 12/16-17 and 1st rd on 12/2-3 or 12/9-10 would be doable it'd seem.

Also a benefit would be the CCG. We're used to seeing games Thanksgiving Friday so it'd be easy to have CCG that Friday afternoon. Spread things out CCG weekend somewhat.
01-27-2022 11:54 AM
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Scoochpooch1 Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Interesting idea from Stewart Mandel
Rivalry games have to be on Thanksgiving weekend. Army-Navy the following week. Schedule around that accordingly. Starting early in August works too.
01-27-2022 11:57 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: Interesting idea from Stewart Mandel
(01-27-2022 11:57 AM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  Rivalry games have to be on Thanksgiving weekend. Army-Navy the following week. Schedule around that accordingly. Starting early in August works too.

I think that's where we'll end up, although I can see at least some rationale for Mandel's proposed schedule.

If what you're saying is that we'll have the current Week 0 become the new Week 1, but otherwise have the same core schedule of having rivalry weekend on Thanksgiving weekend, I can absolutely believe that could occur. It gives the players an additional week of rest while simultaneously providing all leagues an extra week of games for their respective TV packages. That seems to be win-win all around. (To be clear, absolutely NOTHING is being reduced. The same 12 game regular season schedule plus the CCG being a 13th game is an absolute must. That's not even debatable in my mind.)
01-27-2022 12:11 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Interesting idea from Stewart Mandel
(01-27-2022 12:11 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(01-27-2022 11:57 AM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  Rivalry games have to be on Thanksgiving weekend. Army-Navy the following week. Schedule around that accordingly. Starting early in August works too.

I think that's where we'll end up, although I can see at least some rationale for Mandel's proposed schedule.

If what you're saying is that we'll have the current Week 0 become the new Week 1, but otherwise have the same core schedule of having rivalry weekend on Thanksgiving weekend, I can absolutely believe that could occur. It gives the players an additional week of rest while simultaneously providing all leagues an extra week of games for their respective TV packages. That seems to be win-win all around. (To be clear, absolutely NOTHING is being reduced. The same 12 game regular season schedule plus the CCG being a 13th game is an absolute must. That's not even debatable in my mind.)

The problem is that you run into the problems with January and trying to compete with the absolute beast that is the NFL. The NFL is 100% January football now.

I think Mandel's idea- except for the DOA CCG as 12th game- is a very viable idea on how to expand. Yeah, December football isn't 100% ideal, but it's a lot better than trying to have your semifinals in mid-January with the NFL having all the oxygen and then your finals in late-January with the NFL still having all the oxygen.
01-27-2022 12:16 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Interesting idea from Stewart Mandel
Having the semifinals on NYD makes the "Rose Bowl problem" much more solvable

The biggest problem I see is they want to protect the Bowl system in the QF round. Those game should be play in December on campus.

What I would do is do a 5 year rotation where each non Rose bowl CFP game gets a turn being
The championship game (1x)
The other semifinal (1x)
A non CFP constellation Bowl (3x)

The Rose Bowl can be a Jan 1st semifinal every year
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2022 12:25 PM by solohawks.)
01-27-2022 12:24 PM
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Crayton Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Interesting idea from Stewart Mandel
Don’t think even the Rose has the cache of being an annual Semi. Very likely this would look like the current playoff structure with 6 bowls taking turns as semis.

The premise of the idea is actually decent, simply shifting the regular season 1 week earlier. It opens up December for an additional round before NYD. Won’t get rid of 13th games, even if ACC voices have been discussing going back to 11 RS games.

Don’t know if CCGs on Thanksgiving could be agreed on. Big Ten used to finish their schedule before Thanksgiving.
01-27-2022 12:39 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Interesting idea from Stewart Mandel
(01-27-2022 11:57 AM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  Rivalry games have to be on Thanksgiving weekend.

Why? Until about 10 years ago, "rivalry week" was the Saturday BEFORE Thanksgiving.

Look at the Ohio State-Michigan series, for example. Until 2010 it was played on the Saturday before Thanksgiving pretty much every year for more than 60 years.
01-27-2022 12:59 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: Interesting idea from Stewart Mandel
(01-27-2022 12:16 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(01-27-2022 12:11 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(01-27-2022 11:57 AM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  Rivalry games have to be on Thanksgiving weekend. Army-Navy the following week. Schedule around that accordingly. Starting early in August works too.

I think that's where we'll end up, although I can see at least some rationale for Mandel's proposed schedule.

If what you're saying is that we'll have the current Week 0 become the new Week 1, but otherwise have the same core schedule of having rivalry weekend on Thanksgiving weekend, I can absolutely believe that could occur. It gives the players an additional week of rest while simultaneously providing all leagues an extra week of games for their respective TV packages. That seems to be win-win all around. (To be clear, absolutely NOTHING is being reduced. The same 12 game regular season schedule plus the CCG being a 13th game is an absolute must. That's not even debatable in my mind.)

The problem is that you run into the problems with January and trying to compete with the absolute beast that is the NFL. The NFL is 100% January football now.

I think Mandel's idea- except for the DOA CCG as 12th game- is a very viable idea on how to expand. Yeah, December football isn't 100% ideal, but it's a lot better than trying to have your semifinals in mid-January with the NFL having all the oxygen and then your finals in late-January with the NFL still having all the oxygen.

I agree that the CFP cannot compete directly with the NFL.

What I think that too many fans are fixated on is that they think that CFP games need to be played on Saturdays in order to be viable, but that's simply not true when looking at the TV data. TV interests would *want* weeknight playoff games. In fact, they'd LOVE it.

Now, that has to be balanced with the practical reality that weeknight playoff games are a big challenge for traveling fan bases. Something has to give there.

I just believe that, when push comes to shove, the powers that be will take the TV money and, if that means January weeknight playoff games make the most TV money, then that's what they'll do. That has been essentially the decision that they have made in virtually everything else in college sports for the past 40 years. Why is anyone expecting anything different?

The CFP expansion proposal committee knew the new NFL playoff schedule long before they released their 12-team playoff proposal and yet, they specifically stated that they wanted the quarterfinals (not semifinals) to be played in the bowls on or around NYD. So, everyone has thought about the NFL conflicts already. If anything, it's the FIRST thing that they thought about... and they have shown that this entire exercise is about TV revenue maximization. We have the answer of what makes the most TV money and that's January weeknight playoff games. (I don't know how many times that I need to repeat this, but Saturday is the WORST day for maximizing TV ratings. College football ratings are high in *spite* of being on Saturday as opposed to being because of it.) The fact that traveling fans may not like it is collateral damage that they're willing to take because ticket revenue consists of relative pennies compared to the massive dollars from TV revenue at this point.
01-27-2022 01:02 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Interesting idea from Stewart Mandel
(01-27-2022 01:02 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(01-27-2022 12:16 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(01-27-2022 12:11 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(01-27-2022 11:57 AM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  Rivalry games have to be on Thanksgiving weekend. Army-Navy the following week. Schedule around that accordingly. Starting early in August works too.

I think that's where we'll end up, although I can see at least some rationale for Mandel's proposed schedule.

If what you're saying is that we'll have the current Week 0 become the new Week 1, but otherwise have the same core schedule of having rivalry weekend on Thanksgiving weekend, I can absolutely believe that could occur. It gives the players an additional week of rest while simultaneously providing all leagues an extra week of games for their respective TV packages. That seems to be win-win all around. (To be clear, absolutely NOTHING is being reduced. The same 12 game regular season schedule plus the CCG being a 13th game is an absolute must. That's not even debatable in my mind.)

The problem is that you run into the problems with January and trying to compete with the absolute beast that is the NFL. The NFL is 100% January football now.

I think Mandel's idea- except for the DOA CCG as 12th game- is a very viable idea on how to expand. Yeah, December football isn't 100% ideal, but it's a lot better than trying to have your semifinals in mid-January with the NFL having all the oxygen and then your finals in late-January with the NFL still having all the oxygen.

I agree that the CFP cannot compete directly with the NFL.

What I think that too many fans are fixated on is that they think that CFP games need to be played on Saturdays in order to be viable, but that's simply not true when looking at the TV data. TV interests would *want* weeknight playoff games. In fact, they'd LOVE it.

Now, that has to be balanced with the practical reality that weeknight playoff games are a big challenge for traveling fan bases. Something has to give there.

I just believe that, when push comes to shove, the powers that be will take the TV money and, if that means January weeknight playoff games make the most TV money, then that's what they'll do. That has been essentially the decision that they have made in virtually everything else in college sports for the past 40 years. Why is anyone expecting anything different?

The CFP expansion proposal committee knew the new NFL playoff schedule long before they released their 12-team playoff proposal and yet, they specifically stated that they wanted the quarterfinals (not semifinals) to be played in the bowls on or around NYD. So, everyone has thought about the NFL conflicts already. If anything, it's the FIRST thing that they thought about... and they have shown that this entire exercise is about TV revenue maximization. We have the answer of what makes the most TV money and that's January weeknight playoff games. (I don't know how many times that I need to repeat this, but Saturday is the WORST day for maximizing TV ratings. College football ratings are high in *spite* of being on Saturday as opposed to being because of it.) The fact that traveling fans may not like it is collateral damage that they're willing to take because ticket revenue consists of relative pennies compared to the massive dollars from TV revenue at this point.
The 2 major problems I see with doing QF on 1/1-
1- the Rose Bowl issue and bracketing. I think it's a huge issue. I think TV is absolutely going to want a true bracket- and the other conferences as well. The solution Mandel proposed absolutely keeps the Rose elevated but also answers the seeding problems.
2- the SF not being on the same day. You say other sports have games on different days. That's fine, but it's also NOT football.

Also you start to get into the problem of having the title game like this year on 1/30(or if you keep the Monday 1/24). But there again, it's a red headed stepchild to the NFL. There is no oxygen having your semfinals and finals in the same month as the NFL playoffs. Folks are still talking about the Bills/Chiefs game for gosh sakes. And when they stop, they're just going to start to talk about the Conference finals. TV knows that.
01-27-2022 01:09 PM
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Post: #18
RE: Interesting idea from Stewart Mandel
(01-27-2022 12:59 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-27-2022 11:57 AM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  Rivalry games have to be on Thanksgiving weekend.

Why? Until about 10 years ago, "rivalry week" was the Saturday BEFORE Thanksgiving.

Look at the Ohio State-Michigan series, for example. Until 2010 it was played on the Saturday before Thanksgiving pretty much every year for more than 60 years.

I think it's better for rivalry games to NOT be on Thanksgiving weekend. It depends on the school but it does hurt having the game when students are away. Wedge's school Cal to my knowledge doesn't want to play Stanford on Thanksgiving weekend. Thanksgiving weekend IMO would be better for the neutral site conference championship games and you can schedule games all day Black Friday. If Atlanta could host the ACC and SEC on back to back days that would be cool.
01-27-2022 01:28 PM
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Post: #19
RE: Interesting idea from Stewart Mandel
A couple problems I see:

In week 0 no one is class yet so there may be some attendance issues. Big name programs won’t suffer but the little guys would.

In the South, week 0 is HOT. Weather will definitely have an impact on kick off times.

Ending the Regular Season the weekend of Thanksgiving allows a lot of rivalry week games to be aired on Thursday and Friday. Moving things up a week would mean that the weekend with the most potential time slots has just 10 CCGs to air.
01-27-2022 01:34 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Interesting idea from Stewart Mandel
(01-27-2022 12:59 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(01-27-2022 11:57 AM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  Rivalry games have to be on Thanksgiving weekend.

Why? Until about 10 years ago, "rivalry week" was the Saturday BEFORE Thanksgiving.

Look at the Ohio State-Michigan series, for example. Until 2010 it was played on the Saturday before Thanksgiving pretty much every year for more than 60 years.

For which conference?

A quick check from all the games the Saturday after thanksgiving proves this wrong. Plus, there have always been rivalry games on Thanksgiving
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2022 01:40 PM by esayem.)
01-27-2022 01:39 PM
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