(01-26-2022 05:17 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 02:32 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Let’s pretend for a moment that NC Central has accepted a Big South invitation and this has caused a mass exodus from the MEAC. They are down to 4 or less schools and it’s not looking optimistic that they can rebuild.

Can and do they sell their charter and NCAA credits that come with it?

What kind of price could they get for it?

Who might potentially buy it?

———

I have to wonder if a group of A-10 schools or the CAA might want a conference shell. If they sold their charter and triggered more realignment moves, it might increase the chances of the last MEAC schools left to get into another league due to the domino effect that usually follows an expansion.

The Big South is already down to 5 FB schools - Robert Morris, Campbell, NC A&T, Gardner-Webb, Charleston Southern. I'll admit cannot parse the rules on what it would take to create a new football-only FCS conference, but it would seem that if there is a way to preserve the basketball autobids for both the MEAC and Big South AND setting up a FB-only league, akin to the MVFC or Pioneer, to house the remaining schools, that would make some sense. Deal with the Celebration Bowl by sending the HBCU member with the best record, unless that school qualifies for the FCS playoff, at which point you'd send the HBCU member with the 2nd best record.

Untitled FCS Football-Only League
Robert Morris, Delaware State, Howard, Morgan State, Norfolk State, NC Central, NC A&T, Gardner-Webb, Campbell, SC State, Charleston Southern.

Alternatively, you could shuffle schools so that you end up with an all-sports league with the 10 full football-playing members plus Robert Morris, and then combine the non-FB MEAC/Big South schools into another conference, provided they have enough baseball/soccer/whatever men's teams.

Untitled Non-Football League-
Coppin State, Maryland-Eastern Shore, Longwood, Radford, High Point, UNC-Asheville, USC-Upstate, Winthrop, Presbyterian.

The MEAC must sponsor football since it doesn't sponsor two additional men's team sports besides basketball

If the Big South wanted, they could work out a deal with the MEAC to allow their schools to play football in the MEAC. This would preserve the MEAC as a conference while maintaining the current geography of both leagues and allowing the MEAC to maintain its status a HBCU conference. If the MEAC champion was a non HBCU school, they could then claim an auto bid to the playoffs.

With A&T already in the conference, it would just make more sense for the Big South to take the Southern MEAC and continuing sponsoring football

(01-26-2022 04:33 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 04:20 PM)AZcats Wrote:  Continuity is constantly debated on this board. From the current D1 manual.

Quote:20.02.5 Multisport Conference. A Division I multisport conference shall satisfy the requirements of this section. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

20.02.5.1 Minimum Number of Members. A multisport conference shall be composed of at least seven active Division I members. The member conference shall include at least seven active Division I members that sponsor both men's and women's basketball. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

20.02.5.2 Sports Sponsorship. A multisport conference shall satisfy the following requirements: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
( a ) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of 12 Division I sports;
( b ) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six men's sports, one of which shall be men's basketball. In addition to men's basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men's team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor men's basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including football or two additional men's team sports; and
( c ) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six women's sports, one of which shall be women's basketball. In addition to women's basketball, the conference shall sponsor two other women's team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor women's basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including two additional women's team sports (or a minimum of five members for an emerging sport for women).

20.02.5.3 Regular-Season Conference Competition. Multisport conference members shall participate in regular season conference competition, subject to the following requirements: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
( a ) Basketball teams shall participate in a regular-season conference schedule of a double round robin, in-season competition, or a minimum of 14 regular-season conference contests;
( b ) In football or in a minimum of two men's team sports other than men's basketball [as required in Bylaw 20.02.5.2-(b)], teams shall compete in a minimum regular-season conference schedule of five contests. A minimum of five regular-season conference contests must be hosted by one of the two competing teams at its home venue; and
( c ) In a minimum of two women's team sports other than women's basketball (as required in Bylaw 20.02.5.2), teams shall compete in a minimum regular-season conference schedule of five contests. A minimum of five regular-season conference contests must be hosted by one of the two competing teams at its home venue.

20.02.5.4 Continuity. A multisport conference shall establish continuity. To establish continuity, a multisport conference must meet the requirements of Bylaw 20.02.5.1. In addition, the conference must meet the requirements of Bylaws 20.02.5.2 and 20.02.5.3 for a period of eight consecutive years. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

20.02.5.5 Grace Period. A conference shall continue to be considered a multisport conference for two years following the date of withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference's noncompliance with the minimum multisport conference requirements. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

Maybe we should pin this to the top of the message board.

Has any conference gotten/needed a waiver from these rules?

Big East (2013) was born with full autobid status.

Some say we got our autobid because we're "in the club", it wasn't effecting the balance of bids and credits between the "haves" and "have-nots", plus, the Pre-Nup was written based on the old continuity rules. (People who say that are right).

Some say we got our autobid because we met the old continuity rules, 6-teams-playing-together-for-5 years, and so anyone else who meets the old continuity rules would get similar treatment. (People who say that are wrong).

(01-26-2022 04:20 PM)AZcats Wrote:  Continuity is constantly debated on this board. From the current D1 manual.

Quote:20.02.5 Multisport Conference. A Division I multisport conference shall satisfy the requirements of this section. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

20.02.5.1 Minimum Number of Members. A multisport conference shall be composed of at least seven active Division I members. The member conference shall include at least seven active Division I members that sponsor both men's and women's basketball. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

20.02.5.2 Sports Sponsorship. A multisport conference shall satisfy the following requirements: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
( a ) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of 12 Division I sports;
( b ) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six men's sports, one of which shall be men's basketball. In addition to men's basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men's team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor men's basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including football or two additional men's team sports; and
( c ) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six women's sports, one of which shall be women's basketball. In addition to women's basketball, the conference shall sponsor two other women's team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor women's basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including two additional women's team sports (or a minimum of five members for an emerging sport for women).

20.02.5.3 Regular-Season Conference Competition. Multisport conference members shall participate in regular season conference competition, subject to the following requirements: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
( a ) Basketball teams shall participate in a regular-season conference schedule of a double round robin, in-season competition, or a minimum of 14 regular-season conference contests;
( b ) In football or in a minimum of two men's team sports other than men's basketball [as required in Bylaw 20.02.5.2-(b)], teams shall compete in a minimum regular-season conference schedule of five contests. A minimum of five regular-season conference contests must be hosted by one of the two competing teams at its home venue; and
( c ) In a minimum of two women's team sports other than women's basketball (as required in Bylaw 20.02.5.2), teams shall compete in a minimum regular-season conference schedule of five contests. A minimum of five regular-season conference contests must be hosted by one of the two competing teams at its home venue.

20.02.5.4 Continuity. A multisport conference shall establish continuity. To establish continuity, a multisport conference must meet the requirements of Bylaw 20.02.5.1. In addition, the conference must meet the requirements of Bylaws 20.02.5.2 and 20.02.5.3 for a period of eight consecutive years. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

20.02.5.5 Grace Period. A conference shall continue to be considered a multisport conference for two years following the date of withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference's noncompliance with the minimum multisport conference requirements. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

The A-10 has 13 members that have been in the conference together since 2014. Seems easier to put together 7 of them that would meet the non-basketball requirements then to try to buy another conference's charter. Is there any precedent for a charter being sold to a whole new collection of schools that doesn't include any previous members of the charter's conference?

Why would the A10 want to split?

The current set up works well

They can have 3 geographical pods for scheduling purposes in non revenue sports

A10 NORTH - UMass, URI, Fordham, St. Joe's LaSalle

A10 SOUTH - GW, GMU, VCU, Richmond, Davidson

A10 CENTRAL - St. Bony, Duquesne, Dayton, St. Louis, Loyola

(01-26-2022 05:42 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 04:33 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 04:20 PM)AZcats Wrote:  Continuity is constantly debated on this board. From the current D1 manual.

Quote:20.02.5 Multisport Conference. A Division I multisport conference shall satisfy the requirements of this section. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

20.02.5.1 Minimum Number of Members. A multisport conference shall be composed of at least seven active Division I members. The member conference shall include at least seven active Division I members that sponsor both men's and women's basketball. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

20.02.5.2 Sports Sponsorship. A multisport conference shall satisfy the following requirements: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
( a ) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of 12 Division I sports;
( b ) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six men's sports, one of which shall be men's basketball. In addition to men's basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men's team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor men's basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including football or two additional men's team sports; and
( c ) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six women's sports, one of which shall be women's basketball. In addition to women's basketball, the conference shall sponsor two other women's team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor women's basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including two additional women's team sports (or a minimum of five members for an emerging sport for women).

20.02.5.3 Regular-Season Conference Competition. Multisport conference members shall participate in regular season conference competition, subject to the following requirements: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
( a ) Basketball teams shall participate in a regular-season conference schedule of a double round robin, in-season competition, or a minimum of 14 regular-season conference contests;
( b ) In football or in a minimum of two men's team sports other than men's basketball [as required in Bylaw 20.02.5.2-(b)], teams shall compete in a minimum regular-season conference schedule of five contests. A minimum of five regular-season conference contests must be hosted by one of the two competing teams at its home venue; and
( c ) In a minimum of two women's team sports other than women's basketball (as required in Bylaw 20.02.5.2), teams shall compete in a minimum regular-season conference schedule of five contests. A minimum of five regular-season conference contests must be hosted by one of the two competing teams at its home venue.

20.02.5.4 Continuity. A multisport conference shall establish continuity. To establish continuity, a multisport conference must meet the requirements of Bylaw 20.02.5.1. In addition, the conference must meet the requirements of Bylaws 20.02.5.2 and 20.02.5.3 for a period of eight consecutive years. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

20.02.5.5 Grace Period. A conference shall continue to be considered a multisport conference for two years following the date of withdrawal of the institution(s) that causes the conference's noncompliance with the minimum multisport conference requirements. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

Maybe we should pin this to the top of the message board.

Has any conference gotten/needed a waiver from these rules?

Big East (2013) was born with full autobid status.

Some say we got our autobid because we're "in the club", it wasn't effecting the balance of bids and credits between the "haves" and "have-nots", plus, the Pre-Nup was written based on the old continuity rules. (People who say that are right).

Some say we got our autobid because we met the old continuity rules, 6-teams-playing-together-for-5 years, and so anyone else who meets the old continuity rules would get similar treatment. (People who say that are wrong).

Changing the numbers from 6 teams together for 5 years to 7 teams together for 8 years makes it a higher bar to clear but that doesn't seem insurmountable. The A-10 was mentioned earlier in the thread as a potential buyer of the MEAC charter but it has 13 teams that have been together since 2014.

(01-26-2022 07:47 PM)ABAB_Up_down Wrote:  The A-10 has 13 members that have been in the conference together since 2014. Seems easier to put together 7 of them that would meet the non-basketball requirements then to try to buy another conference's charter.

7 schools who leave the A-10 are, in the eyes of the NCAA conference continuity rules, 7 schools starting a brand-new conference which will be eligible for an autobid in 8 years. The fact that they shared a conference together doesn't matter, they're in the same position as if, say, Stony Brook, Hofstra, LIU, Manhattan, Fordham, Iona, MArist, Monmouth and NJIT decided that life would be more fulfilling in the brand-new Big Apple Conference.

The clock doesn't attach to the schools, it attaches to the conference.

Quote:Is there any precedent for a charter being sold to a whole new collection of schools that doesn't include any previous members of the charter's conference?

No, no precedent exists. I think that, to do this, you'd have to have the New MEAC members join the MEAC, and the existing MEAC members move on to ne
w homes.

Theoretically anyway. (Practically, I don't see a group of 7 or 7+ A-10 schools who would agree on who to break away from and who to break away with. The A-10 has a lot of schools who are up-and-down. )

Quote:20.02.5.4 Continuity. A multisport conference shall establish continuity. To establish continuity, a multisport conference must meet the requirements of Bylaw 20.02.5.1. In addition, the conference must meet the requirements of Bylaws 20.02.5.2 and 20.02.5.3 for a period of eight consecutive years. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)

Here's the old thread. RIP NoDak.
https://csnbbs.com/thread-768543.html

(01-26-2022 05:31 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 05:17 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 02:32 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Let’s pretend for a moment that NC Central has accepted a Big South invitation and this has caused a mass exodus from the MEAC. They are down to 4 or less schools and it’s not looking optimistic that they can rebuild.

Can and do they sell their charter and NCAA credits that come with it?

What kind of price could they get for it?

Who might potentially buy it?

———

I have to wonder if a group of A-10 schools or the CAA might want a conference shell. If they sold their charter and triggered more realignment moves, it might increase the chances of the last MEAC schools left to get into another league due to the domino effect that usually follows an expansion.

The Big South is already down to 5 FB schools - Robert Morris, Campbell, NC A&T, Gardner-Webb, Charleston Southern. I'll admit cannot parse the rules on what it would take to create a new football-only FCS conference, but it would seem that if there is a way to preserve the basketball autobids for both the MEAC and Big South AND setting up a FB-only league, akin to the MVFC or Pioneer, to house the remaining schools, that would make some sense. Deal with the Celebration Bowl by sending the HBCU member with the best record, unless that school qualifies for the FCS playoff, at which point you'd send the HBCU member with the 2nd best record.

Untitled FCS Football-Only League
Robert Morris, Delaware State, Howard, Morgan State, Norfolk State, NC Central, NC A&T, Gardner-Webb, Campbell, SC State, Charleston Southern.

Alternatively, you could shuffle schools so that you end up with an all-sports league with the 10 full football-playing members plus Robert Morris, and then combine the non-FB MEAC/Big South schools into another conference, provided they have enough baseball/soccer/whatever men's teams.

Untitled Non-Football League-
Coppin State, Maryland-Eastern Shore, Longwood, Radford, High Point, UNC-Asheville, USC-Upstate, Winthrop, Presbyterian.

The MEAC must sponsor football since it doesn't sponsor two additional men's team sports besides basketball

If the Big South wanted, they could work out a deal with the MEAC to allow their schools to play football in the MEAC. This would preserve the MEAC as a conference while maintaining the current geography of both leagues and allowing the MEAC to maintain its status a HBCU conference. If the MEAC champion was a non HBCU school, they could then claim an auto bid to the playoffs.

With A&T already in the conference, it would just make more sense for the Big South to take the Southern MEAC and continuing sponsoring football

Thanks for the explanation. I get that it would be preferable for the Big South to just straight up add SC State and NC Central but I would think the MEAC schools will stick together unless and until Howard decides to join the CAA. Since they didn’t join the CAA with Hampton I’m guessing Howard isn’t leaving for now, so if they cut a deal and bring in the 4 Big South FB members that would very cool and let both leagues keep the MBB autobid.

It says a conference must sponsor basketball. I guess the MPSF gets a special waiver for sponsoring a bunch of sports but not basketball?

(01-26-2022 11:13 PM)AssKickingChicken Wrote:  It says a conference must sponsor basketball. I guess the MPSF gets a special waiver for sponsoring a bunch of sports but not basketball?

The MPSF is a Federation of single-sport conferences so no special waiver needed.

What became of the charters of the SWC, Big Eight, Metro, and Great Midwest Conference?

No.

(01-26-2022 11:50 PM)AssKickingChicken Wrote:  What became of the charters of the SWC, Big Eight, Metro, and Great Midwest Conference?

Border Conference as well.