(01-26-2022 08:03 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 06:39 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 01:13 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  It wasn't an issue of enemies or RINOs.

It was an issue of Trump not understanding how policy gets implemented. This is a result of him never having held public office before.

For example, when he was elected, I read in several reliable places that Trump thought he'd have to make a few dozen appointments to run the executive branch. The actual number is more than 4,000 (of which about 1,200 require Senate approval and 2,800 don't require Senate approval). Trump smashed all-time records in failure to nominate people. As a result, he left large segments of the government to be run by career bureaucrats who actively opposed his policies.


Similarly, when it came to passing laws or negotiating with foreign governments, he treated negotiations with the other side like one of his real estate negotiations. In real estate, it's okay if you don't reach an agreement. There's millions of potential deal partners. If you can't find common ground with one guy, you just flip him the bird and go onto the next deal with another guy. Burning bridges is okay because you'll probably never see the guy again.

But in politics, burning a bridge with the Speaker of the House or the leader of a foreign country has real consequences. It turns those people into permanent road blocks against your policies.

Exhibit A: John McCain. Trump publicly insulted him during the campaign and delivered some very low blows (making fun of the guy for surrendering & becoming a POW? Really?). McCain never forgave him. When Trump needed McCain's vote to overturn Obamacare, McCain went out of his way to screw Trump over. It had nothing to do with McCain being a RINO; it was pure revenge.

That happened time and time again - Trump canceled the Trans-Pacific Partnership, then was shocked when none of our TPP allies would stand with him against China. Trump insulted both Merkel and her country repeatedly, so Germany has drifted away from the USA and has turned to Russia for NordStream II.

So McCain was a petty piece of garbage who was willing to screw over the American people because somebody hurt his feelings.

This example says much more about McCain than it does Trump, imo.

He was the same way towards the Bushes, just a total *******. Same type of stories about him as a POW.

The McCain example is just one - and if you're going to ignore everyone who is overly prideful, then you're ignoring everyone in the Senate and every foreign leader. This isn't the Atlantic City zoning commission; this is the highest level of government. You can't deliver personal insults and expect to steamroll your way into the results you want.


The far more important example I mentioned (which no one on here seem to think is worthy of comment) is that Trump allowed career bureaucrats to block most of his policies simply because he refused to nominate people to run the executive branch.

Nominations are the easiest way a President can affect the direction of government policy of the President, and yet Trump declined to do it.

My personal preference for reasonably realistic winning runners. I'm probably forgetting some and wouldn't doubt if some surprise people get involved in...

Presidential Candidates for MAGA Future:
Donald Trump
Mike Pompeo
Ron DeSantis

Nikki Haley
Tim Scott


Vice Presidential Candidates for MAGA Future:
Mike Pompeo
Nikki Haley
Tim Scott
Tom Cotton
Jim Jordan


Cheerleaders if not running or once they drop out:
Rand Paul
Ted Cruz

(01-26-2022 03:14 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  I feel like Trump don't stand a chance in 2024 but they'll turn any Republican into a greedy, racist, misogynist, etc. Run 'im anyways. Suburban moms likely college-educated Dems now anyways.

Yea, pretty sure you said the same about Va being hopelessly blue forever.

Well, flipped all three Exec branch seats, took over the State House and eyeballing the Senate come November.

Just based on some of your posts here, I’m guessing you get too much of an earful from some of your leftist friends.

This is still largely a conservative, right leaning country, even if many vote dim. They will fight it if challenged, but they live their lives in mostly a traditional, one man one woman, two car, two kids family.

The exceptions are still the exception.

(01-27-2022 11:10 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 08:03 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 06:39 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 01:13 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  It wasn't an issue of enemies or RINOs.

It was an issue of Trump not understanding how policy gets implemented. This is a result of him never having held public office before.

For example, when he was elected, I read in several reliable places that Trump thought he'd have to make a few dozen appointments to run the executive branch. The actual number is more than 4,000 (of which about 1,200 require Senate approval and 2,800 don't require Senate approval). Trump smashed all-time records in failure to nominate people. As a result, he left large segments of the government to be run by career bureaucrats who actively opposed his policies.


Similarly, when it came to passing laws or negotiating with foreign governments, he treated negotiations with the other side like one of his real estate negotiations. In real estate, it's okay if you don't reach an agreement. There's millions of potential deal partners. If you can't find common ground with one guy, you just flip him the bird and go onto the next deal with another guy. Burning bridges is okay because you'll probably never see the guy again.

But in politics, burning a bridge with the Speaker of the House or the leader of a foreign country has real consequences. It turns those people into permanent road blocks against your policies.

Exhibit A: John McCain. Trump publicly insulted him during the campaign and delivered some very low blows (making fun of the guy for surrendering & becoming a POW? Really?). McCain never forgave him. When Trump needed McCain's vote to overturn Obamacare, McCain went out of his way to screw Trump over. It had nothing to do with McCain being a RINO; it was pure revenge.

That happened time and time again - Trump canceled the Trans-Pacific Partnership, then was shocked when none of our TPP allies would stand with him against China. Trump insulted both Merkel and her country repeatedly, so Germany has drifted away from the USA and has turned to Russia for NordStream II.

So McCain was a petty piece of garbage who was willing to screw over the American people because somebody hurt his feelings.

This example says much more about McCain than it does Trump, imo.

He was the same way towards the Bushes, just a total *******. Same type of stories about him as a POW.

The McCain example is just one - and if you're going to ignore everyone who is overly prideful, then you're ignoring everyone in the Senate and every foreign leader. This isn't the Atlantic City zoning commission; this is the highest level of government. You can't deliver personal insults and expect to steamroll your way into the results you want.


The far more important example I mentioned (which no one on here seem to think is worthy of comment) is that Trump allowed career bureaucrats to block most of his policies simply because he refused to nominate people to run the executive branch.

Nominations are the easiest way a President can affect the direction of government policy of the President, and yet Trump declined to do it.

He did nominate people. The Democrats in the Senate did an unprecedented delay in approving nominations and McConnell did nothing about it. That's on the incompetent McConnell. I don't remember the numbers now, but it was something like 3-6 months longer than the average Obama appointment.

I agree President Trump did not do a good job of quickly weeding out the Obama/Biden traitors still in the government.

(01-26-2022 09:02 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 08:49 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  No, its like going to sleep after winning a game 35-7, and waking up and finding out someone found your opponent 29 more points in the middle of the night.

More like 10-7 or 35-32. If it had been 35-7, it would have been too obvious. And in any event it was a bunch of RINOs who caved in to allow it to happen.

I think there were a bunch of RINOs who would rather see the commiecrats in charge of the country than Donald Trump leading their party.

Well and the useless Georgia Secretary of State was a vicious anti-Trumper who had a liberal Democrat as his #2 in the department. That is who agreed to all the Democrats requests for removing safeguards around the vote.

(01-27-2022 10:58 AM)b2b Wrote:  I like him a lot but can Ron DeSantis be bought?
DeSantis / Scott seems like an easily winning ticket to me.

I'd like someone from the midwest as VP rather than two southerners.

(01-27-2022 11:02 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(01-27-2022 10:55 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(01-27-2022 10:48 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 07:26 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 06:39 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  So McCain was a petty piece of garbage who was willing to screw over the American people because somebody hurt his feelings.
This example says much more about McCain than it does Trump, imo.

But Trump made mistakes because he didn't understand how the game gets played in the Blob. The worst problem with the McCain deal is that it probably cost two senate seats in Arizona. And Trump's continued failure to accept losing to Biden probably cost two senate seats in Georgia. I'd feel about 1000% better with a 54-46 republican majority in the senate than the current 50-50, particularly with Breyer hanging it up. Even though Sinema, as goofy as she is, has voted the right way--or signaled her intent to vote the right way--enough to slow down the headlong democrat plunge into socialism/communism/fascism.

What the country needs is a republican who is as fearless as Trump is, but who does not attract so many negatives. Unfortunately, I don't see one. Do you?

So far Ron DeSantis seems to be the Heir Apparent.

Ron DeSantis easily has the fortitude and nimbleness to swat back any and all political b.s. directed at him. He has more than proved himself in that regard.

There are plenty of others who I think have the same skill set (even they don't necessarily pass the conservative-purity test that seems to be applied by poster on this forum to everyone other than Donald Trump):

Rand Paul
Ted Cruz
Mike Pompeo
Tim Scott
Nikki Haley
Tom Cotton
Rick Grenell
Dan Crenshaw - just heyall NO!

Those are the ones that come immediately to my mind. I am sure that there are others.

[/s] due to need in their current capacity > oval

it's going to be #groverII or DeSantis in '24 and DeSantis won't run against DJT - book it danno....

Well Paul is to much of a Libertarian. Cruz has a way of making people dislike him. Crenshaw doesn't have the national or executive experience and, to be blunt, an eyepatch will turn some voters off.

(01-27-2022 12:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-27-2022 10:58 AM)b2b Wrote:  I like him a lot but can Ron DeSantis be bought?
DeSantis / Scott seems like an easily winning ticket to me.

I'd like someone from the midwest as VP rather than two southerners.

What difference does that make? That's essentially playing ID politics and ignoring that Scott is a black man.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

(01-27-2022 12:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-27-2022 10:58 AM)b2b Wrote:  I like him a lot but can Ron DeSantis be bought?
DeSantis / Scott seems like an easily winning ticket to me.

I'd like someone from the midwest as VP rather than two southerners.

Well, it worked for Bubba and Goreron.

Do many people think of Fl as being "Southern"?

I kinda don't. Yea, it's in the South, duh, but when I hear Southerners I ain' thinking sunny Florida.

(01-26-2022 03:51 PM)scorpius Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 12:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://amgreatness.com/2022/01/25/donal...e-of-maga/

Talks about reasons for someone other than Trump to lead:

"...But in terms of implementing the populist, nationalist agenda Trump brought to victory against all odds, his administration was a dismal failure in most respects.

On issue after issue, Trump was continually confounded and outmaneuvered by opponents of his agenda, even when the GOP retained a majority in both the House and Senate during the administration’s first two years. Democrats, of course, used the fraudulent Russia collusion hoax to cast doubt on the legitimacy of his victory and embroil the administration in endless investigations to the detriment of the White House’s focus on agenda items, but they couldn’t have done it without the collaboration of Republicans who also despised Trump’s nationalist-populist agenda and seized every opportunity to undermine it. Those Republican opponents of America First were not only in congressional leadership (personified by House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell), they were in every executive agency (even among the political appointees) and within the White House itself.

If personnel is policy, Trump made the fundamental and unforgivable error of farming out the staffing of his administration to people and entities (Chris Christie, Mike Pence, the Heritage Foundation) in fundamental disagreement with his agenda on every one of his key issues. Predictably, this led to his being undermined and slow-rolled at every turn by people who regarded his electoral victory as yet another opportunity to push the same old failed pro-corporate, neocon agenda...."

Overstates his failures and dismisses his successes, but it is a very valid point. Trump made a lot of bad personnel choices.

There is no future of MAGA unless you want more rioting in the streets all over the country, including DC and the Capitol. Since Biden has been in office, all of that is behind us. Insert another MAGA mad-man in the Presidency, the rioting will start up again but even worse. Even without that, the wildly unpopular rulings coming from the radical Surpreme Court is what we have to fear when it comes to sparking more rioting.

Lol

What’s a Make America Great Again madman look like?

Is American nationalism now some kind of a sin? What country on Gods green earth doesn’t strive to be great? Have pride in their Country? Hope for their success and continued progress?

Why the self loathing about being a citizen in the greatest country ever on the face of the earth?

Why do you hate yourself so much?


Very odd, that.

(01-26-2022 03:51 PM)scorpius Wrote:  There is no future of MAGA unless you want more rioting in the streets all over the country, including DC and the Capitol. Since Biden has been in office, all of that is behind us. Insert another MAGA mad-man in the Presidency, the rioting will start up again but even worse. Even without that, the wildly unpopular rulings coming from the radical Surpreme Court [sic] is what we have to fear when it comes to sparking more rioting.

Scorp decoder ring:

Right-wing extremist = disagrees with Chairman Mao
Madman = disagrees with Scorp
Racist = continues to disagree

Beaucoup dinky dau.

(01-27-2022 02:39 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 03:51 PM)scorpius Wrote:  There is no future of MAGA unless you want more rioting in the streets all over the country, including DC and the Capitol. Since Biden has been in office, all of that is behind us. Insert another MAGA mad-man in the Presidency, the rioting will start up again but even worse. Even without that, the wildly unpopular rulings coming from the radical Surpreme Court is what we have to fear when it comes to sparking more rioting.

Scorp decoder ring:

Right-wing extremist = disagrees with Chairman Mao
Madman = disagrees with Scorp
Racist = continues to disagree

Beaucoup dinky dau.

That's got to be a satire account right? He's essentially admitting Biden got elected b/c leftists destroyed American cities.

(01-27-2022 02:45 PM)b2b Wrote:  

(01-27-2022 02:39 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-26-2022 03:51 PM)scorpius Wrote:  There is no future of MAGA unless you want more rioting in the streets all over the country, including DC and the Capitol. Since Biden has been in office, all of that is behind us. Insert another MAGA mad-man in the Presidency, the rioting will start up again but even worse. Even without that, the wildly unpopular rulings coming from the radical Supreme Court is what we have to fear when it comes to sparking more rioting.

Scorp decoder ring:
Right-wing extremist = disagrees with Chairman Mao
Madman = disagrees with Scorp
Racist = continues to disagree
Beaucoup dinky dau.

That's got to be a satire account right? He's essentially admitting Biden got elected b/c leftists destroyed American cities.

He's been essentially a satire account for years.

I believe Trump’s biggest mistake was listening to whoever told him not to investigate Hillary Rodham Clinton. That basically allowed her and her minions to perpetrate to great scam.