(01-27-2022 02:02 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(01-27-2022 01:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-27-2022 08:01 AM)ken d Wrote:  CSU sponsors the following men's sports:

Football
Basketball
Track & Field
Golf

Does that look like a P5 school to you?

Well Kansas St. only adds baseball to that list.

Most of the SEC and Big 12 schools don't sponsor a lot of "excess" sports.

Cross country, tennis, swimming & diving?

CSU has cross-country (and 10 women's sports including tennis and swimming & diving). KSU doesn't appear to have men's tennis or swimming & diving.

(01-27-2022 02:42 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-27-2022 02:02 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(01-27-2022 01:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-27-2022 08:01 AM)ken d Wrote:  CSU sponsors the following men's sports:

Football
Basketball
Track & Field
Golf

Does that look like a P5 school to you?

Well Kansas St. only adds baseball to that list.

Most of the SEC and Big 12 schools don't sponsor a lot of "excess" sports.

Cross country, tennis, swimming & diving?

CSU has cross-country (and 10 women's sports including tennis and swimming & diving). KSU doesn't appear to have men's tennis or swimming & diving.

Yes. CSU has all three Track seasons - indoor, outdoor and Cross-Country to meet the D-I minimum of six men's sports. I just lumped them altogether. FWIW, Kansas also only has one more men's sport than CSU - baseball - like K-State. But neither of those have to get invited to a P5 conference like CSU does.

(01-23-2022 11:18 AM)schmolik Wrote:  Assuming academics is the reason for blocking the Cal State schools

It's not. It doesn't matter. Caltech and UC San Diego are excellent universities that are top-20 worldwide in research rankings. Neither of them will ever be in the Pac either, even if they spent $1 billion to move into FBS.

TV money is the only reason for conferences to expand, and the only way to make more money is by adding huge sports brands. The Pac already has 4 members in California. No P conference has more than 4 members in the same state. The SEC isn't adding Oklahoma because of some academic ranking; they're adding Oklahoma because OU is a huge football brand and an athletic department with one of the largest budgets anywhere.

If you want to know whether a conference would vote to invite School A or B, just ask whether existing members of the conference would make a boatload of new money by adding School A or B. The only way that happens is if the would be new member generates more money for the conference than the current annual conference revenue divided by the number of members, i.e. if adding School A or B would increase the per-school distribution of conference revenue.

(01-27-2022 01:42 PM)Milwaukee Wrote:  The PAC 12 does envision itself as being a West Coast version of the Big Ten, academically.

However, they might still feel pressured to expand if all the other P5s add teams, particularly if they all become 16-team conferences.

If the PAC-12 should come under strong enough pressure to expand, so as to become the PAC-16, which four teams do you think they would be most likely to add, assuming that none of the Big 12 schools would join the PAC?

Pac-12 schools have a lot of respect for Big 10 schools academically, but I have never heard anyone on the west coast say that "the PAC 12 does envision itself as being a West Coast version of the Big Ten, academically." Stanford is the No. 1 ranked FBS school in the country, academically. UCLA and Cal are the top two public schools in the country, academically. I think the schools are just fine being Pac-12 schools.

Why would the Pac-12 feel pressured to expand to 16? Any expansion has to bring a dramatic increase in revenue, or it is not worthwhile. The whole point of expansion is to increase the revenue pie. Expansion for the sake of expansion will never happen in the Pac-12.

(01-27-2022 03:31 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(01-27-2022 01:42 PM)Milwaukee Wrote:  The PAC 12 does envision itself as being a West Coast version of the Big Ten, academically.

However, they might still feel pressured to expand if all the other P5s add teams, particularly if they all become 16-team conferences.

If the PAC-12 should come under strong enough pressure to expand, so as to become the PAC-16, which four teams do you think they would be most likely to add, assuming that none of the Big 12 schools would join the PAC?

Pac-12 schools have a lot of respect for Big 10 schools academically, but I have never heard anyone on the west coast say that "the PAC 12 does envision itself as being a West Coast version of the Big Ten, academically." Stanford is the No. 1 ranked FBS school in the country, academically. UCLA and Cal are the top two public schools in the country, academically. I think the schools are just fine being Pac-12 schools.

Why would the Pac-12 feel pressured to expand to 16? Any expansion has to bring a dramatic increase in revenue, or it is not worthwhile. The whole point of expansion is to increase the revenue pie. Expansion for the sake of expansion will never happen in the Pac-12.

And there won't be any pressure brought to bear on the PAC by the other four power conferences expanding further because there aren't any more schools available outside the P5 that would increase the revenue pie. The only way one of them expands will be by taking teams away from one of the other P5 conferences.

(01-27-2022 03:28 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-27-2022 02:42 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-27-2022 02:02 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(01-27-2022 01:52 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-27-2022 08:01 AM)ken d Wrote:  CSU sponsors the following men's sports:

Football
Basketball
Track & Field
Golf

Does that look like a P5 school to you?

Well Kansas St. only adds baseball to that list.

Most of the SEC and Big 12 schools don't sponsor a lot of "excess" sports.

Cross country, tennis, swimming & diving?

CSU has cross-country (and 10 women's sports including tennis and swimming & diving). KSU doesn't appear to have men's tennis or swimming & diving.

Yes. CSU has all three Track seasons - indoor, outdoor and Cross-Country to meet the D-I minimum of six men's sports. I just lumped them altogether. FWIW, Kansas also only has one more men's sport than CSU - baseball - like K-State. But neither of those have to get invited to a P5 conference like CSU does.

Houston just has baseball and golf. Cincinnati does have 3 more-baseball, golf and swimming. Big 12 just has Texas, TCU and WVU with men's swimming and only those 3 and KU and ISU wiht women's swimming.

(01-24-2022 01:39 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 06:04 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 04:59 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(01-23-2022 03:33 PM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  The PAC has said AAU is not a condition of membership, unlike the B1G.

If the 4 California schools left the PAC would be willing to lower its standards to stay upright in athletics. However if even 1 still remain like Cal they won't add any Cal State schools.

UNLV has a much better chance than some are giving it because of that Las Vegas market and NFL stadium.

The question is would UNR will block UNLV from joining a P5 conference before them? UNR is the flagship school of Nevada, and not UNLV.

How can UNR block a PAC decision when they are in the MWC?

PAC 12 can't pick them without UNR's permission. UNR have the better academics than UNLV.

Please cite an authoritative link that states that.

(01-24-2022 02:14 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-24-2022 02:02 PM)b2b Wrote:  Institutionally I think they fit. Regarding athletic support they absolutely do not.

They spend enough. They just don't win enough.

They don’t raise enough of their own funds, though. I think the campaign to fully self- or mostly self-fund the stadium was their coming out party, as others sort of did with their projects. Colorado State fell well short of that. Yeah, they got the stadium built…but it took government help, and don’t think powers that be elsewhere didn’t see that and take copious notes.

So, they kinda come off like they have some momentum and can go in football and basketball in spurts, but they can’t sustain it. If you’re a major conference, and you’re going to plant any/more stakes in CO, I think the desire is to make those trips matter. And is CSU good for fans to travel? I’m not so sure.

The PAC will say AAU is not a requirement, but it seems like if you don’t have it, you don’t “fit the cultural profile.” Heh…nice one, snobs. So, while I think the building blocks will be there academically at some point, the best option/ceiling may be this remnant Big XII. But, again, simply look at what those other schools so very well with athletic spending and fundraising. CSU can’t sniff that stuff. That really matters.

I think I’d put my chips on AFA (football-only or all-in) getting into a major before CSU.

If the entire 12 team MWC is worth less than $50 million a year, and CSU isn't exactly the crown jewel of that league, how much would they be worth to the Big 12? If they could bring Air Force with them, would they be worth more?

(01-27-2022 07:48 PM)ken d Wrote:  If the entire 12 team MWC is worth less than $50 million a year, and CSU isn't exactly the crown jewel of that league, how much would they be worth to the Big 12? If they could bring Air Force with them, would they be worth more?

You could make a similar argument about BYU, UCF, Cincinnati, Houston and the Big 12, but they were all invited. You could have said the same about Rutgers and the Big 10 or Syracuse and Pitt and the ACC.

Sometimes it gets hard to tell what works economically on a marginal basis for that last spot or two in a conference.