(01-15-2022 02:36 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(01-15-2022 01:10 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(01-14-2022 03:31 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(01-14-2022 12:08 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If Portland St drops football, they are getting expelled from the Big Sky. That means WAC or D2 membership.

Actually I could see the Big West taking PSU as a 12th member.

Yes. But PSU would likely have to add a couple spirts. Can they afford men's volleyball, men's soccer or baseball if football gets the axe? Everyone in the league has at least two of those sports.

I think they would have to go with men’s soccer and possibly men’s volleyball. The football practice field on campus could be converted to a halfway decent soccer venue, and of course PSU’s new basketball pavilion would be fine for volleyball. However there’s no suitable baseball facility anywhere in Portland’s urban core and no space on PSU’s campus to build one.

Perhaps. There could be some natural synergy right from the get go between PSU and the Timbers.

Hawaii would benefit the most from PSU joining. New members pay for their own flights to Honolulu. A 12th member, especially one outside California, restores geographic balance, enables divisions and reduces Hawaii's overall travel subsidy. In some years, by 35%. A North-South setup works best IMO.

Big West North: PSU-UCD, CSUB-CP, UCSB-LBSU
Big West South: UCSD-UH, UCR-CSUN, CSUF-UCI

(01-15-2022 06:28 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(01-15-2022 02:36 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(01-15-2022 01:10 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(01-14-2022 03:31 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(01-14-2022 12:08 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If Portland St drops football, they are getting expelled from the Big Sky. That means WAC or D2 membership.

Actually I could see the Big West taking PSU as a 12th member.

Yes. But PSU would likely have to add a couple spirts. Can they afford men's volleyball, men's soccer or baseball if football gets the axe? Everyone in the league has at least two of those sports.

I think they would have to go with men’s soccer and possibly men’s volleyball. The football practice field on campus could be converted to a halfway decent soccer venue, and of course PSU’s new basketball pavilion would be fine for volleyball. However there’s no suitable baseball facility anywhere in Portland’s urban core and no space on PSU’s campus to build one.

Perhaps. There could be some natural synergy right from the get go between PSU and the Timbers.

Hawaii would benefit the most from PSU joining. New members pay for their own flights to Honolulu. A 12th member, especially one outside California, restores geographic balance, enables divisions and reduces Hawaii's overall travel subsidy. In some years, by 35%. A North-South setup works best IMO.

Big West North: PSU-UCD, CSUB-CP, UCSB-LBSU
Big West South: UCSD-UH, UCR-CSUN, CSUF-UCI

Yep, I agree on all points. The divisional split and travel partnerships are right in line with what I thought made sense when I looked at it, except that you could arguably swap LBSU for CSUN. I hope it happens.

PSU is not going to pay the travel fees the Big West would require.

You do realize it's 966 miles from Portland to Los Angeles. Admittedly the air flights are only about 3 hours to California. but every game is a flight. Team will either need to stay overnight in hotels or bring players home to be in their beds at 2 AM from basketball and some other sports. For Portland State it would be that way for every road game.

Non-International out of state students make up only 1-2% of any of the California public schools. There is no recruiting value whatsoever. If PSU drops FB and is booted from the Big Sky, their only real D-I opportunity would be the WAC, where they would be a travel partner with Seattle. And it's not like PSU brings any improvement in athletic power. I don't see the value for the Big West. (It'd be the old, "If you want a team really badly, I have a really bad team for you.")

All that said, I don't think they will drop football. But if they do, they should probably drop down to D-II and play in the Great Northwest with several regional schools. Heavy travel of the WAC or Big West as a basketball school doesn't make a lot of sense. They will do everything to keep football, stay in the Big Sky and D-I.

(01-15-2022 02:49 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  PSU is not going to pay the travel fees the Big West would require.

You do realize it's 966 miles from Portland to Los Angeles. Admittedly the air flights are only about 3 hours to California. but every game is a flight. Team will either need to stay overnight in hotels or bring players home to be in their beds at 2 AM from basketball and some other sports. For Portland State it would be that way for every road game.

Non-International out of state students make up only 1-2% of any of the California public schools. There is no recruiting value whatsoever. If PSU drops FB and is booted from the Big Sky, their only real D-I opportunity would be the WAC, where they would be a travel partner with Seattle. And it's not like PSU brings any improvement in athletic power. I don't see the value for the Big West. (It'd be the old, "If you want a team really badly, I have a really bad team for you.")

All that said, I don't think they will drop football. But if they do, they should probably drop down to D-II and play in the Great Northwest with several regional schools. Heavy travel of the WAC or Big West as a basketball school doesn't make a lot of sense. They will do everything to keep football, stay in the Big Sky and D-I.

The Big West travel seems relatively similar to the Big Sky travel, sans the Hawaii trip.

Dropping football is not the answer. It hurts the moral at the schools.

(01-15-2022 02:55 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  

(01-15-2022 02:49 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  PSU is not going to pay the travel fees the Big West would require.

You do realize it's 966 miles from Portland to Los Angeles. Admittedly the air flights are only about 3 hours to California. but every game is a flight. Team will either need to stay overnight in hotels or bring players home to be in their beds at 2 AM from basketball and some other sports. For Portland State it would be that way for every road game.

Non-International out of state students make up only 1-2% of any of the California public schools. There is no recruiting value whatsoever. If PSU drops FB and is booted from the Big Sky, their only real D-I opportunity would be the WAC, where they would be a travel partner with Seattle. And it's not like PSU brings any improvement in athletic power. I don't see the value for the Big West. (It'd be the old, "If you want a team really badly, I have a really bad team for you.")

All that said, I don't think they will drop football. But if they do, they should probably drop down to D-II and play in the Great Northwest with several regional schools. Heavy travel of the WAC or Big West as a basketball school doesn't make a lot of sense. They will do everything to keep football, stay in the Big Sky and D-I.

The Big West travel seems relatively similar to the Big Sky travel, sans the Hawaii trip.

For Portland, sure. For Cal State-San Junipero, not at all.

(01-15-2022 03:07 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Dropping football is not the answer. It hurts the moral at the schools.

Portland State students aren't worried about the Big Game or homecoming or pledging frats. They're trying to finish that diploma, they're not worried about school spirit.

Quote:The average age at Portland State is 27, and the 71% of students earning bachelor’s degrees next month are students who earned credits somewhere else before transferring to PSU.

Article from 2019, found by googling Portland State average age

(01-15-2022 03:27 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-15-2022 03:07 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Dropping football is not the answer. It hurts the moral at the schools.

Portland State students aren't worried about the Big Game or homecoming or pledging frats. They're trying to finish that diploma, they're not worried about school spirit.

Quote:The average age at Portland State is 27, and the 71% of students earning bachelor’s degrees next month are students who earned credits somewhere else before transferring to PSU.

Article from 2019, found by googling Portland State average age

I mean who really decides their college choice based on having a FCS football program or not? Maybe a potential walk on? Why would anyone else choose a college over a FCS football team?

Portland State football won’t be missed.

(01-15-2022 02:03 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-15-2022 01:36 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  PSU is buried on page 5 column C, after 20 articles on the Trailblazers, Ducks, Beavers and that Seahawk team up in Seattle.

That part of it is the same for Sac State. The huge difference is that Sac State already has football facilities and an administration that is willing to spend a lot more money to subsidize athletics than PSU’s administration is. Which is why PSU ought to raise a ton of money, or raid the university finances for a ton of money, or run a no-football athletic department.

You don't think that those in advancement/development aren't trying to?

(01-15-2022 02:10 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  The city of Portland wants to build a big stadium for football for high school and for Portland State. It is a way to save space.

Source? The city was not part of the 2019 plan, but the school district was.
https://www.oregonlive.com/sports/2019/0...-snag.html

(01-15-2022 03:07 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Dropping football is not the answer. It hurts the moral at the schools.

Hearsay. And it's morale.

(01-15-2022 02:49 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  PSU is not going to pay the travel fees the Big West would require.

You do realize it's 966 miles from Portland to Los Angeles. Admittedly the air flights are only about 3 hours to California. but every game is a flight. Team will either need to stay overnight in hotels or bring players home to be in their beds at 2 AM from basketball and some other sports. For Portland State it would be that way for every road game.

Non-International out of state students make up only 1-2% of any of the California public schools. There is no recruiting value whatsoever. If PSU drops FB and is booted from the Big Sky, their only real D-I opportunity would be the WAC, where they would be a travel partner with Seattle. And it's not like PSU brings any improvement in athletic power. I don't see the value for the Big West. (It'd be the old, "If you want a team really badly, I have a really bad team for you.")

All that said, I don't think they will drop football. But if they do, they should probably drop down to D-II and play in the Great Northwest with several regional schools. Heavy travel of the WAC or Big West as a basketball school doesn't make a lot of sense. They will do everything to keep football, stay in the Big Sky and D-I.

Portland State's main value, is that they are a large public school in the Pacific Northwest who would restore geographic balance and reduce Hawaii's overall travel subsidy. There's more value in Portland State than in Cal State Bakersfield. PSU is ranked higher academically too.

(01-15-2022 01:10 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(01-14-2022 03:31 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(01-14-2022 12:08 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If Portland St drops football, they are getting expelled from the Big Sky. That means WAC or D2 membership.

Actually I could see the Big West taking PSU as a 12th member.

Yes. But PSU would likely have to add a couple spirts. Can they afford men's volleyball, men's soccer or baseball if football gets the axe? Everyone in the league has at least two of those sports.

Both studies floated the idea of starting a men's volleyball team in the event that football is discontinued, as recruiting athletes wouldn't be very difficult and they have a relatively new facility that could be used for it. Soccer is also pretty cheap to start.

(01-15-2022 02:10 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  The city of Portland wants to build a big stadium for football for high school and for Portland State. It is a way to save space.

The CC study points out that the high school football expansion proposal, at Lincoln High School, is DOA right now. An expansion to 10,000 seats would cost $50 million dollars, given the environmental impact mitigation measures resolved. For 50M (which the school or city do not have), they could build a completely new field somewhere else.

(01-15-2022 02:49 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  PSU is not going to pay the travel fees the Big West would require.

You do realize it's 966 miles from Portland to Los Angeles. Admittedly the air flights are only about 3 hours to California. but every game is a flight. Team will either need to stay overnight in hotels or bring players home to be in their beds at 2 AM from basketball and some other sports. For Portland State it would be that way for every road game.

That's pretty close to how it is now...there's only what, two bus trips in the Big Sky?

Quote:I mean who really decides their college choice based on having a FCS football program or not? Maybe a potential walk on? Why would anyone else choose a college over a FCS football team?

Portland State football won’t be missed.

Anybody wanting to be in a marching band? Athletic training? Anybody wanting to participate in any of the other related jobs/activities tied to football?

Not really relevant to Portland State's situation (they're not hard up for enrollment and the football team's stated purpose wasn't to grow enrollment), but that number isn't zero.

(01-15-2022 08:13 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  

(01-15-2022 01:10 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(01-14-2022 03:31 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(01-14-2022 12:08 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If Portland St drops football, they are getting expelled from the Big Sky. That means WAC or D2 membership.

Actually I could see the Big West taking PSU as a 12th member.

Yes. But PSU would likely have to add a couple spirts. Can they afford men's volleyball, men's soccer or baseball if football gets the axe? Everyone in the league has at least two of those sports.

Both studies floated the idea of starting a men's volleyball team in the event that football is discontinued, as recruiting athletes wouldn't be very difficult and they have a relatively new facility that could be used for it. Soccer is also pretty cheap to start.

(01-15-2022 02:10 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  The city of Portland wants to build a big stadium for football for high school and for Portland State. It is a way to save space.

The CC study points out that the high school football expansion proposal, at Lincoln High School, is DOA right now. An expansion to 10,000 seats would cost $50 million dollars, given the environmental impact mitigation measures resolved. For 50M (which the school or city do not have), they could build a completely new field somewhere else.

(01-15-2022 02:49 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  PSU is not going to pay the travel fees the Big West would require.

You do realize it's 966 miles from Portland to Los Angeles. Admittedly the air flights are only about 3 hours to California. but every game is a flight. Team will either need to stay overnight in hotels or bring players home to be in their beds at 2 AM from basketball and some other sports. For Portland State it would be that way for every road game.

That's pretty close to how it is now...there's only what, two bus trips in the Big Sky?

Quote:I mean who really decides their college choice based on having a FCS football program or not? Maybe a potential walk on? Why would anyone else choose a college over a FCS football team?

Portland State football won’t be missed.

Anybody wanting to be in a marching band? Athletic training? Anybody wanting to participate in any of the other related jobs/activities tied to football?

Not really relevant to Portland State's situation (they're not hard up for enrollment and the football team's stated purpose wasn't to grow enrollment), but that number isn't zero.

Matt, the Lincoln site had nothing to do with the city of Portland as the school district runs the said schools as I told DavidSt

(01-15-2022 08:13 PM)MattBrownEP Wrote:  

(01-15-2022 01:10 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(01-14-2022 03:31 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(01-14-2022 12:08 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If Portland St drops football, they are getting expelled from the Big Sky. That means WAC or D2 membership.

Actually I could see the Big West taking PSU as a 12th member.

Yes. But PSU would likely have to add a couple spirts. Can they afford men's volleyball, men's soccer or baseball if football gets the axe? Everyone in the league has at least two of those sports.

Both studies floated the idea of starting a men's volleyball team in the event that football is discontinued, as recruiting athletes wouldn't be very difficult and they have a relatively new facility that could be used for it. Soccer is also pretty cheap to start.

(01-15-2022 02:10 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  The city of Portland wants to build a big stadium for football for high school and for Portland State. It is a way to save space.

The CC study points out that the high school football expansion proposal, at Lincoln High School, is DOA right now. An expansion to 10,000 seats would cost $50 million dollars, given the environmental impact mitigation measures resolved. For 50M (which the school or city do not have), they could build a completely new field somewhere else.

(01-15-2022 02:49 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  PSU is not going to pay the travel fees the Big West would require.

You do realize it's 966 miles from Portland to Los Angeles. Admittedly the air flights are only about 3 hours to California. but every game is a flight. Team will either need to stay overnight in hotels or bring players home to be in their beds at 2 AM from basketball and some other sports. For Portland State it would be that way for every road game.

That's pretty close to how it is now...there's only what, two bus trips in the Big Sky?

Quote:I mean who really decides their college choice based on having a FCS football program or not? Maybe a potential walk on? Why would anyone else choose a college over a FCS football team?

Portland State football won’t be missed.

Anybody wanting to be in a marching band? Athletic training? Anybody wanting to participate in any of the other related jobs/activities tied to football?

Not really relevant to Portland State's situation (they're not hard up for enrollment and the football team's stated purpose wasn't to grow enrollment), but that number isn't zero.

The problem is the lack of D1 football schools out west.

(01-15-2022 03:53 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(01-15-2022 03:27 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-15-2022 03:07 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Dropping football is not the answer. It hurts the moral at the schools.

Portland State students aren't worried about the Big Game or homecoming or pledging frats. They're trying to finish that diploma, they're not worried about school spirit.

Quote:The average age at Portland State is 27, and the 71% of students earning bachelor’s degrees next month are students who earned credits somewhere else before transferring to PSU.

Article from 2019, found by googling Portland State average age

I mean who really decides their college choice based on having a FCS football program or not? Maybe a potential walk on? Why would anyone else choose a college over a FCS football team?

Portland State football won’t be missed.

Anecdotal, but I made my choice to go to KSU based on them having an fcs program.

I would not have even applied to Kennesaw if they hadn't announced fcs football when I was trying to pick a school. I wanted to go somewhere with college football. I would have ended up at Ga Southern, State or Valdosta.

(01-15-2022 03:27 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-15-2022 03:07 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Dropping football is not the answer. It hurts the moral at the schools.

Portland State students aren't worried about the Big Game or homecoming or pledging frats. They're trying to finish that diploma, they're not worried about school spirit.

Quote:The average age at Portland State is 27, and the 71% of students earning bachelor’s degrees next month are students who earned credits somewhere else before transferring to PSU.

Article from 2019, found by googling Portland State average age

Also, it is pretty practically a commuter school. Hardly any dorms on the campus. Went there for a year and a half before transferring to another school.

(01-15-2022 08:46 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-15-2022 03:27 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-15-2022 03:07 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Dropping football is not the answer. It hurts the moral at the schools.

Portland State students aren't worried about the Big Game or homecoming or pledging frats. They're trying to finish that diploma, they're not worried about school spirit.

Quote:The average age at Portland State is 27, and the 71% of students earning bachelor’s degrees next month are students who earned credits somewhere else before transferring to PSU.

Article from 2019, found by googling Portland State average age

Also, it is pretty practically a commuter school. Hardly any dorms on the campus. Went there for a year and a half before transferring to another school.

I had a friend who commuted there from Vancouver, WA. He said a lot of his classmates were middle aged, non-traditional students and that there wasn't a true campus identity/feel -- just people who randomly went there for class and left. Ironically, he chose to go there because it was when they had NCAAT teams during the Ken Bone era.

(01-15-2022 08:41 PM)Hootyhoo Wrote:  

(01-15-2022 03:53 PM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(01-15-2022 03:27 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-15-2022 03:07 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Dropping football is not the answer. It hurts the moral at the schools.

Portland State students aren't worried about the Big Game or homecoming or pledging frats. They're trying to finish that diploma, they're not worried about school spirit.

Quote:The average age at Portland State is 27, and the 71% of students earning bachelor’s degrees next month are students who earned credits somewhere else before transferring to PSU.

Article from 2019, found by googling Portland State average age

I mean who really decides their college choice based on having a FCS football program or not? Maybe a potential walk on? Why would anyone else choose a college over a FCS football team?

Portland State football won’t be missed.

Anecdotal, but I made my choice to go to KSU based on them having an fcs program.

I would not have even applied to Kennesaw if they hadn't announced fcs football when I was trying to pick a school. I wanted to go somewhere with college football. I would have ended up at Ga Southern, State or Valdosta.

Same with me at UND. I didn't go there because of football, but I used sports to weed out potential schools, and did further research from the basket of remaining schools. I wanted to go somewhere that had tons of school pride.

Matt,

The late night returns and hotel stays are mostly for the Big West. It makes no sense for this bus league to add significant travel costs of Portland. This is not a school that improves the league in anything. Makes zero sense.

For Portland State, flights to/fromSac State, UC Davis (FB), Idaho, EWU, Weber are all 90 minutes or less. These all get you kids home by midnight. There are none like that in the Big West except UC Davis. What is worse for PSU, there is no subsidy for them to offset the costs of Hawaii. Note, the Montana schools and Northern Colorado are about the same as all those SoCal schools in the Big West. Idaho State a terrible place to get to, nothing direct except from SLC.

For the WAC UVU and Seattle are hops, the rest are really long flights, with Texas being far worse than SoCal of the Big West. Neither conference works well for PSU, and they don't help the competitiveness of either.

If you drop football and are getting booted from the Big Sky, then D-II makes more sense. They can afford that. This is a school that resembles SF State in many respects, including that very skewed old student body.

(01-15-2022 11:17 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Matt,

The late night returns and hotel stays are mostly for the Big West. It makes no sense for this bus league to add significant travel costs of Portland. This is not a school that improves the league in anything. Makes zero sense.

For Portland State, flights to/fromSac State, UC Davis (FB), Idaho, EWU, Weber are all 90 minutes or less. These all get you kids home by midnight. There are none like that in the Big West except UC Davis. What is worse for PSU, there is no subsidy for them to offset the costs of Hawaii. Note, the Montana schools and Northern Colorado are about the same as all those SoCal schools in the Big West. Idaho State a terrible place to get to, nothing direct except from SLC.

For the WAC UVU and Seattle are hops, the rest are really long flights, with Texas being far worse than SoCal of the Big West. Neither conference works well for PSU, and they don't help the competitiveness of either.

If you drop football and are getting booted from the Big Sky, then D-II makes more sense. They can afford that. This is a school that resembles SF State in many respects, including that very skewed old student body.

Travel in the GNAC would be better than in the Big West, but not that much better. In that league they'd be making road trips to Anchorage and Fairbanks. Would the net savings be enough to justify dropping down to D2? Seattle did that, decided it was a mistake and spent a lot of time and effort clawing its way back up to D1.

Now if PSU were to get kicked out of the Big Sky and the Big West declined interest and the only D1 option left was the WAC then I think D2 would make sense. As you say, travel in the WAC would be a lot tougher than in the Big Sky or Big West.

(01-15-2022 01:36 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(01-14-2022 08:50 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-14-2022 07:31 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Portland State has been struggling for years. They are definitely the weakest member of the Big Sky.

Maybe not. PSU’s athletic budget is about the same as that of Idaho State, Weber State, or Southern Utah. (SUU is leaving this summer to join the WAC.) OTOH those other schools all have a football facility.

Probably, PSU should raise enough money to get its own Big Sky level football field in Portland if they want to continue with football. The Big Sky will be down to 10 members after SUU goes WACky, so I doubt the Big Sky would kick a no-football PSU out — but we should probably get a real answer on that from the Big Sky itself before making pronouncements one way or the other.

Costs a lot more for everything, including labor and maintenance in Portland than in Idaho. Same dollars in Idaho go much farther.

PSU's basic problem, unlike the other Big Sky schools, excepting Sac State, is that they are an urban school in a large metro, basically the type of demographic SF State has, which is nota positive building a football program. Sac State is urban, but a smaller city and with a natural rival in UC Davis that keeps local interest in Sac town. (Well the Pig Bowl "Guns and Hoses" game is an attraction, https://pigbowl.org/)

PSU is buried on page 5 column C, after 20 articles on the Trailblazers, Ducks, Beavers, Timbers, and that Seahawk team up in Seattle.

Unfortunately, pretty accurate except for the small modification I made above.Portland State used to have their own stadium at Jenn-Weld Stadium in Portland before the Portland Timbers (MLS)apparently kicked them out. If I am not mistaken, they play their games in a HS football stadium in Hillsboro , a western suburb of Portland that's at least a 30 minute to downtown Portland, if not more. Portland State needs it's own stadium that it doesn't have to share with anyone apparently. Also, merging with the Oregon Institute of Technology (OIT, or Oregon Tech) had come up in the distant past. OIT is a state school with the main campus in Klamath Falls (if you thought Lubbock, Texas was small, you haven't seen Klamath Falls!! I think even Troy, AL, is bigger than Klamath Falls, OR.) and small branch campus in the Portland suburb of Wilsonville, OR.