(01-16-2022 09:37 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 07:39 AM)82hawk Wrote:  

(01-15-2022 09:54 PM)Boogie Woogie Wrote:  Let's go fighting Brandon Beane's!

I know it would never happen, but I don't understand why we don't form a non football conference. Plenty of schools in NC, SC, VA, MD, PA, TN and FL that could make it work. I hate the mixed up football/basketball conferences. I'm sure someone's mentioned it before, but if so I missed it, and was thinking about it tonight.

NC - UNCW, UNCG, UNCA, High Point
SC - CofC, Winthrop, Upstate
VA - Longwood, Radford. GMU/VCU aren't leaving A10
FL - Florida Gulf Coast, North Florida, Jacksonville
MD - Loyola, Middle Eastern Shore, Mount Saint Mary, UMBC
TN - Lipscomb, Belmont
PA - Drexel

Pick 12 or 14 teams and get the hell out of the CAA.

Because you can't just form a conference and be recognized by the NCAA and participate in their tournament. They have rules based on longevity of your conference. The ASUN has come the closest to forming this type of conference, but their plan takes too many schools to commit to what amounts to a leap of faith.

So you're left with being part of an existing conferenc

Yup. New conferences go 8 years without an auto bid. Just not feasible to start a new one

That's why I think our administration will be content with a division from Baltimore to Charleston, even though we look to be getting screwed by not getting at least a Campbell or Winthrop to throw us a bone

"The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don't have any."

Enter the autobid rule...

Mid-major conference commissioners and ADs have all experienced the challenges of the pandemic, fully comprehend they have serious budget shortfalls, and know existing conference geographies aren't optimized for cost effectiveness.

There is scant if any reporting to suggest these commissioners and ADs asked for relief from or challenged the autobid rule that precludes more rational conference construction. Strangely, the autobid rule remains etched in stone while the NCAA is making profound changes in other areas. Perhaps it's time for donors and those paying student activity fees to begin asking why mid-major college leaders continue to behave as if acquiescence to the autobid rule doesn't raise stewardship issues?

(01-16-2022 11:30 AM)Florida tribe fan Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 09:37 AM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-16-2022 07:39 AM)82hawk Wrote:  

(01-15-2022 09:54 PM)Boogie Woogie Wrote:  Let's go fighting Brandon Beane's!

I know it would never happen, but I don't understand why we don't form a non football conference. Plenty of schools in NC, SC, VA, MD, PA, TN and FL that could make it work. I hate the mixed up football/basketball conferences. I'm sure someone's mentioned it before, but if so I missed it, and was thinking about it tonight.

NC - UNCW, UNCG, UNCA, High Point
SC - CofC, Winthrop, Upstate
VA - Longwood, Radford. GMU/VCU aren't leaving A10
FL - Florida Gulf Coast, North Florida, Jacksonville
MD - Loyola, Middle Eastern Shore, Mount Saint Mary, UMBC
TN - Lipscomb, Belmont
PA - Drexel

Pick 12 or 14 teams and get the hell out of the CAA.

Because you can't just form a conference and be recognized by the NCAA and participate in their tournament. They have rules based on longevity of your conference. The ASUN has come the closest to forming this type of conference, but their plan takes too many schools to commit to what amounts to a leap of faith.

So you're left with being part of an existing conferenc

Yup. New conferences go 8 years without an auto bid. Just not feasible to start a new one

That's why I think our administration will be content with a division from Baltimore to Charleston, even though we look to be getting screwed by not getting at least a Campbell or Winthrop to throw us a bone

"The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don't have any."

Enter the autobid rule...

Mid-major conference commissioners and ADs have all experienced the challenges of the pandemic, fully comprehend they have serious budget shortfalls, and know existing conference geographies aren't optimized for cost effectiveness.

There is scant if any reporting to suggest these commissioners and ADs asked for relief from or challenged the autobid rule that precludes more rational conference construction. Strangely, the autobid rule remains etched in stone while the NCAA is making profound changes in other areas. Perhaps it's time for donors and those paying student activity fees to begin asking why mid-major college leaders continue to behave as if acquiescence to the autobid rule doesn't raise stewardship issues?

Because the power conferences already feel like they are being generous by giving 25 or so mid major conferences entry into their billion dollar event

(01-15-2022 09:54 PM)Boogie Woogie Wrote:  Let's go fighting Brandon Beane's!

I know it would never happen, but I don't understand why we don't form a non football conference. Plenty of schools in NC, SC, VA, MD, PA, TN and FL that could make it work. I hate the mixed up football/basketball conferences. I'm sure someone's mentioned it before, but if so I missed it, and was thinking about it tonight.

NC - UNCW, UNCG, UNCA, High Point
SC - CofC, Winthrop, Upstate
VA - Longwood, Radford. GMU/VCU aren't leaving A10
FL - Florida Gulf Coast, North Florida, Jacksonville
MD - Loyola, Middle Eastern Shore, Mount Saint Mary, UMBC
TN - Lipscomb, Belmont
PA - Drexel

Pick 12 or 14 teams and get the hell out of the CAA.

This conference has exactly 0 existing rivals for Drexel. UMBC is similar enough, but Drexel is not going to trade Hofstra and Northeastern just to play UMBC.

https://dailyprogress.com/sports/in-remo...bb518.html

Latest article is promoting a 12 team league adding Monmouth, Stony Brook, and Hampton. That would still push Towson to the South. Article says Howard not interested in leaving the MEAC at this time. Also says that they did try SoCon schools but the SoCon schools weren't interested, which should not be a surprise.

If 14 is still the goal hopefully Howard denial opens up the door for Campbell in the South

(01-17-2022 08:36 AM)solohawks Wrote:  https://dailyprogress.com/sports/in-remo...bb518.html

Latest article is promoting a 12 team league adding Monmouth, Stony Brook, and Hampton. That would still push Towson to the South. Article says Howard not interested in leaving the MEAC at this time. Also says that they did try SoCon schools but the SoCon schools weren't interested, which should not be a surprise.

If 14 is still the goal hopefully Howard denial opens up the door for Campbell in the South

We can't get out of the CAA fast enough.

(01-17-2022 08:36 AM)solohawks Wrote:  https://dailyprogress.com/sports/in-remo...bb518.html

Latest article is promoting a 12 team league adding Monmouth, Stony Brook, and Hampton. That would still push Towson to the South. Article says Howard not interested in leaving the MEAC at this time. Also says that they did try SoCon schools but the SoCon schools weren't interested, which should not be a surprise.

If 14 is still the goal hopefully Howard denial opens up the door for Campbell in the South

Unless UNCG and Furman come on board, there is nothing for UNCW and CofC left in the CAA.

This shows that the league is giving up on members South of Virginia but adding Hampton to appease William & Mary. Sounds to me like you, C of C and Elon could be bound for the Southern eventually?

(01-17-2022 11:19 AM)mainejeff Wrote:  This shows that the league is giving up on members South of Virginia but adding Hampton to appease William & Mary. Sounds to me like you, C of C and Elon could be bound for the Southern eventually?

Could also be a move toward the ASUN as well. But seems like a shift to the south may be coming for those schools. Elon may still hang with the CAA. We will see

Not sure the SoCon is interested in non-football schools. I could see the four privates agreeing to take back Elon, but who knows? I don't see a package deal to include UNCW and CoC working. Institutional fit argument only works for UNCG.

Geographic fit works, but not sure if that is enough. Some concern about basketball-only schools having a competitive advantage in that sport

(01-17-2022 05:02 PM)Clueless Economist Wrote:  Not sure the SoCon is interested in non-football schools. I could see the four privates agreeing to take back Elon, but who knows? I don't see a package deal to include UNCW and CoC working. Institutional fit argument only works for UNCG.

Geographic fit works, but not sure if that is enough. Some concern about basketball-only schools having a competitive advantage in that sport

The argument of competitive advantage has been argued in the CAA as well. But, IMO, that is an awful argument that assures a mid major conference will remain a one bid conference. Everyone looks to the A10 as a model for a basketball only conference but they seem to forget that over half the A10 schools play FCS football but house football in the CAA. So, they still have football and the associated costs. But they are smart enough to realize all boats rise with a rising tide so they focus strictly on bringing in the best basketball schools they can.

(01-17-2022 05:45 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(01-17-2022 05:02 PM)Clueless Economist Wrote:  Not sure the SoCon is interested in non-football schools. I could see the four privates agreeing to take back Elon, but who knows? I don't see a package deal to include UNCW and CoC working. Institutional fit argument only works for UNCG.

Geographic fit works, but not sure if that is enough. Some concern about basketball-only schools having a competitive advantage in that sport

The argument of competitive advantage has been argued in the CAA as well. But, IMO, that is an awful argument that assures a mid major conference will remain a one bid conference. Everyone looks to the A10 as a model for a basketball only conference but they seem to forget that over half the A10 schools play FCS football but house football in the CAA. So, they still have football and the associated costs. But they are smart enough to realize all boats rise with a rising tide so they focus strictly on bringing in the best basketball schools they can.

82 is spot on

I just don't think UNCW is interested in the SoCon nor do I think the SoCon is going to be proactively interested in UNCW

(01-17-2022 07:14 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-17-2022 05:45 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(01-17-2022 05:02 PM)Clueless Economist Wrote:  Not sure the SoCon is interested in non-football schools. I could see the four privates agreeing to take back Elon, but who knows? I don't see a package deal to include UNCW and CoC working. Institutional fit argument only works for UNCG.

Geographic fit works, but not sure if that is enough. Some concern about basketball-only schools having a competitive advantage in that sport

The argument of competitive advantage has been argued in the CAA as well. But, IMO, that is an awful argument that assures a mid major conference will remain a one bid conference. Everyone looks to the A10 as a model for a basketball only conference but they seem to forget that over half the A10 schools play FCS football but house football in the CAA. So, they still have football and the associated costs. But they are smart enough to realize all boats rise with a rising tide so they focus strictly on bringing in the best basketball schools they can.

82 is spot on

I just don't think UNCW is interested in the SoCon nor do I think the SoCon is going to be proactively interested in UNCW

To be honest, UNCW hasn’t seemed interested in anything but complacency and just hoping things get better around us.


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(01-17-2022 07:19 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(01-17-2022 07:14 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-17-2022 05:45 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(01-17-2022 05:02 PM)Clueless Economist Wrote:  Not sure the SoCon is interested in non-football schools. I could see the four privates agreeing to take back Elon, but who knows? I don't see a package deal to include UNCW and CoC working. Institutional fit argument only works for UNCG.

Geographic fit works, but not sure if that is enough. Some concern about basketball-only schools having a competitive advantage in that sport

The argument of competitive advantage has been argued in the CAA as well. But, IMO, that is an awful argument that assures a mid major conference will remain a one bid conference. Everyone looks to the A10 as a model for a basketball only conference but they seem to forget that over half the A10 schools play FCS football but house football in the CAA. So, they still have football and the associated costs. But they are smart enough to realize all boats rise with a rising tide so they focus strictly on bringing in the best basketball schools they can.

82 is spot on

I just don't think UNCW is interested in the SoCon nor do I think the SoCon is going to be proactively interested in UNCW

To be honest, UNCW hasn’t seemed interested in anything but complacency and just hoping things get better around us.


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Agreed

(01-17-2022 07:19 PM)B_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(01-17-2022 07:14 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(01-17-2022 05:45 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(01-17-2022 05:02 PM)Clueless Economist Wrote:  Not sure the SoCon is interested in non-football schools. I could see the four privates agreeing to take back Elon, but who knows? I don't see a package deal to include UNCW and CoC working. Institutional fit argument only works for UNCG.

Geographic fit works, but not sure if that is enough. Some concern about basketball-only schools having a competitive advantage in that sport

The argument of competitive advantage has been argued in the CAA as well. But, IMO, that is an awful argument that assures a mid major conference will remain a one bid conference. Everyone looks to the A10 as a model for a basketball only conference but they seem to forget that over half the A10 schools play FCS football but house football in the CAA. So, they still have football and the associated costs. But they are smart enough to realize all boats rise with a rising tide so they focus strictly on bringing in the best basketball schools they can.

82 is spot on

I just don't think UNCW is interested in the SoCon nor do I think the SoCon is going to be proactively interested in UNCW

To be honest, UNCW hasn’t seemed interested in anything but complacency and just hoping things get better around us.


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I don't think it's a lack of interest as much as it is a lack of options and money. We're a midmajor school located in an isolated, small market. Conferences are looking for a school with a consistent winning culture to help with multiple bids or/and a big market to enhance their standing with ESPN for TV revenues. UNCW doesn't bring those aspects to a conference.

Our best option is to stay put with the style of basketball Keatts and Siddle brought to UNCW. Recruit players for the sytem and hopefully win wherever we are. Then hire a new coach to keep the system going when they eventually move on. Nothing wrong with being a big fish in a small pond. Our top end is the A10. But we need the coastal area around UNCW to keep growing and we need to keep this style of play so we can remain consistently good.

(01-16-2022 11:30 AM)Florida tribe fan Wrote:  "The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don't have any."

Enter the autobid rule...

Mid-major conference commissioners and ADs have all experienced the challenges of the pandemic, fully comprehend they have serious budget shortfalls, and know existing conference geographies aren't optimized for cost effectiveness.

There is scant if any reporting to suggest these commissioners and ADs asked for relief from or challenged the autobid rule that precludes more rational conference construction. Strangely, the autobid rule remains etched in stone while the NCAA is making profound changes in other areas.

Bingo.

All kinds of decks are being re-shuffled all the time in the NCAA these days, but this one is somehow like altering the King James Bible? Give me a break.

While there is probably no chance (absent tournament expansion) of adding auto-bid conferences, it would be very reasonable to allow conferences to reorganize without the restrictive "X number of schools have to be together for Y number of years" in order to retain the autobids of existing conferences. It would rationalize things a lot and not cost the power conferences anything.

So why isn't that being pushed for?

College athletics is a clubby business, and I suspect that more midmajor conference ADs and Commissioners don't rock the boat more than they do is that they hope to someday become power conference ADs and Commissioners. While rocking the boat may be in their institutions' best interests, they may not perceive it to be in their personal career best interest. Being the "turd in the punchbowl" is the quickest way to be disinvited to the party, and I suspect that's the last thing would-be party goers want.....

(01-18-2022 08:08 AM)70shawk Wrote:  It would rationalize things a lot and not cost the power conferences anything.

It absolutely would. Look at it from their side of the coin. If a bunch of conference want to realign, great follow the rules. They know they dont have the pockets to make it work. So they are stuck in money losers while doing whatever they want. If they lose their autobid status, then that leaves all of their shares of money for them since they would be the ones to take those bids as at larges. So you are trying to argue that the power leagues arent interested in more money and having the event get closer to one just for them? Leagues collapsing or losing their bids is exactly what they want, so they have plenty of cost involved. They are not looking for ways to cut their profits.

Delaware and William & Mary control the future of the CAA....the rest of y'all will have to bow down to them.

Delaware and W&M don't control anything. If they did, then Richmond, VCU and George Mason would not have left in the first place. I still think the smart move is for Elon, W&M, COC and UNCW to work together. The SoCon works well in that scenario. Honestly, I don't see anything else out there that works at all. The Sunbelt was a move for JMU football. It likely won't be super beneficial for any of their other sports and the costs increase. It was a move for FBS football and (G5 at that). Most of the teams that have made the jump for football face a reality of not reaching the P5 level and not getting the financial windfall they hoped. But, at least they have some level of stability. The CAA is not stable at this point. While I have enjoyed the basketball and baseball games with Hofstra and Northeastern, the long term viability is uncertain. Clearly, there is more support for football in the South. So, for most of the schools, it comes down to deciding do they value football or basketball more.

(01-18-2022 10:22 AM)TribePride91 Wrote:  Delaware and W&M don't control anything. If they did, then Richmond, VCU and George Mason would not have left in the first place. I still think the smart move is for Elon, W&M, COC and UNCW to work together. The SoCon works well in that scenario. Honestly, I don't see anything else out there that works at all. The Sunbelt was a move for JMU football. It likely won't be super beneficial for any of their other sports and the costs increase. It was a move for FBS football and (G5 at that). Most of the teams that have made the jump for football face a reality of not reaching the P5 level and not getting the financial windfall they hoped. But, at least they have some level of stability. The CAA is not stable at this point. While I have enjoyed the basketball and baseball games with Hofstra and Northeastern, the long term viability is uncertain. Clearly, there is more support for football in the South. So, for most of the schools, it comes down to deciding do they value football or basketball more.

Delaware and William & Mary most certainly DO control the future of this league at this point. Everyone else is just along for the ride until the game of musical chairs ends.

(01-18-2022 11:40 AM)mainejeff Wrote:  

(01-18-2022 10:22 AM)TribePride91 Wrote:  Delaware and W&M don't control anything. If they did, then Richmond, VCU and George Mason would not have left in the first place. I still think the smart move is for Elon, W&M, COC and UNCW to work together. The SoCon works well in that scenario. Honestly, I don't see anything else out there that works at all. The Sunbelt was a move for JMU football. It likely won't be super beneficial for any of their other sports and the costs increase. It was a move for FBS football and (G5 at that). Most of the teams that have made the jump for football face a reality of not reaching the P5 level and not getting the financial windfall they hoped. But, at least they have some level of stability. The CAA is not stable at this point. While I have enjoyed the basketball and baseball games with Hofstra and Northeastern, the long term viability is uncertain. Clearly, there is more support for football in the South. So, for most of the schools, it comes down to deciding do they value football or basketball more.

Delaware and William & Mary most certainly DO control the future of this league at this point. Everyone else is just along for the ride until the game of musical chairs ends.

Care to expound upon why you think that?


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