For perspective, here's some select winning percentages for certain teams in certain years. JMU and NDSU's 2 most recent head coaches are bolded.

NDSU (Chris Klieman) 69-6 (0.920)
Alabama (2008-2021) 176-18 (0.907)
NDSU (Matt Entz) 37-4 (0.902)
JMU (Curt Cignetti) 33-5 (0.868)
Georgia Southern (1997-2001) 62-10 (0.861)
JMU (Mike Houston) 37-6 (0.860)
Georgia Southern (1985-1989) 62-11 (0.849)
Marshall (1992-1996) 62-12 (0.839)
App State (2005-2009) 61-12 (0.836)

Sorry, but NDSU and JMU don't just happen to have 4 of the best coaches in the history of the subdivision in one era. There's just no doubt the FCS has gotten watered down. And I'm not trying to pooh pooh what JMU has done, I don't doubt we're better in football with them than without them.

It’s a fair argument, but it would only come into play at final 8 or later. Overall records would still be gaudy for those teams/coaches regardless.

(01-08-2022 06:49 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  For perspective, here's some select winning percentages for certain teams in certain years. JMU and NDSU's 2 most recent head coaches are bolded.

NDSU (Chris Klieman) 69-6 (0.920)
Alabama (2008-2021) 176-18 (0.907)
NDSU (Matt Entz) 37-4 (0.902)
JMU (Curt Cignetti) 33-5 (0.868)
Georgia Southern (1997-2001) 62-10 (0.861)
JMU (Mike Houston) 37-6 (0.860)
Georgia Southern (1985-1989) 62-11 (0.849)
Marshall (1992-1996) 62-12 (0.839)
App State (2005-2009) 61-12 (0.836)

Sorry, but NDSU and JMU don't just happen to have 4 of the best coaches in the history of the subdivision in one era. There's just no doubt the FCS has gotten watered down. And I'm not trying to pooh pooh what JMU has done, I don't doubt we're better in football with them than without them.

JMU's already solid program definitely started to take a step forward in some ways(but not in-game coaching that's for sure) when we went from Matthews to Withers, and then that step became a giant leap going from Withers to Houston in 2016. Yeah, there's no more App State, Georgia Southern, etc. in FCS but it's not just the lack of competition. Plus like 007 pointed out, if those teams were still around that wouldn't keep JMU and NDSU from putting up these regular season records. Just might get one or two less wins in the playoffs. Although there is the fact that Delaware, Richmond, Youngstown State aren't what they used to be either.

Either way you look at it, JMU and NDSU are on another level from the rest of the FCS so I'm glad we're finally gonna be literally on another level where we should be. NDSU clearly belongs FBS as well, definitely feel for them being left to beat up on the FCS because of geography.

(01-09-2022 04:39 AM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  

(01-08-2022 06:49 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  For perspective, here's some select winning percentages for certain teams in certain years. JMU and NDSU's 2 most recent head coaches are bolded.

NDSU (Chris Klieman) 69-6 (0.920)
Alabama (2008-2021) 176-18 (0.907)
NDSU (Matt Entz) 37-4 (0.902)
JMU (Curt Cignetti) 33-5 (0.868)
Georgia Southern (1997-2001) 62-10 (0.861)
JMU (Mike Houston) 37-6 (0.860)
Georgia Southern (1985-1989) 62-11 (0.849)
Marshall (1992-1996) 62-12 (0.839)
App State (2005-2009) 61-12 (0.836)

Sorry, but NDSU and JMU don't just happen to have 4 of the best coaches in the history of the subdivision in one era. There's just no doubt the FCS has gotten watered down. And I'm not trying to pooh pooh what JMU has done, I don't doubt we're better in football with them than without them.

JMU's already solid program definitely started to take a step forward in some ways(but not in-game coaching that's for sure) when we went from Matthews to Withers, and then that step became a giant leap going from Withers to Houston in 2016. Yeah, there's no more App State, Georgia Southern, etc. in FCS but it's not just the lack of competition. Plus like 007 pointed out, if those teams were still around that wouldn't keep JMU and NDSU from putting up these regular season records. Just might get one or two less wins in the playoffs. Although there is the fact that Delaware, Richmond, Youngstown State aren't what they used to be either.

Either way you look at it, JMU and NDSU are on another level from the rest of the FCS so I'm glad we're finally gonna be literally on another level where we should be. NDSU clearly belongs FBS as well, definitely feel for them being left to beat up on the FCS because of geography.

Part of it is FCS powers no longer competing in the playoffs.

But I think people overlook the 20+ extra scholarships that move-ups like Georgia Southern, App State, and Coastal Coastal Carolina use up as well as start-ups like Georgia State, South Alabama, and UNCC. The southeast is arguably the top region for both P5 and G5 football but the southeast has no one in FCS with a pulse other than maybe Kennesaw State and let's face it they're not competing with NDSU and JMU.

Guys like Eric Ward and Josh Vaughn and Kevin Grayson from Richmond's 2008 national championship team today would probably sign with a G5 team as well as a lot of the players programs like William and Mary and Furman and Wofford.

(01-09-2022 10:30 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Part of it is FCS powers no longer competing in the playoffs.

But I think people overlook the 20+ extra scholarships that move-ups like Georgia Southern, App State, and Coastal Coastal Carolina use up as well as start-ups like Georgia State, South Alabama, and UNCC. The southeast is arguably the top region for both P5 and G5 football but the southeast has no one in FCS with a pulse other than maybe Kennesaw State and let's face it they're not competing with NDSU and JMU.

Guys like Eric Ward and Josh Vaughn and Kevin Grayson from Richmond's 2008 national championship team today would probably sign with a G5 team as well as a lot of the players programs like William and Mary and Furman and Wofford.

I don't get the argument that to many start up programs take away or dilute the recruiting process. There is a surplus of talent out there, you might have to fight a little harder or look a little longer to get it but there is plenty of talent to go around. And there are always guys overlooked by IA and always have been. You have to look no further than Chad Pennington (Marshall SoCon), Dexter Coakley (Appy State SoCon), Phil Simms (Morehead State OVC) and Jerry Rice (Mississippi Valley SWAC).

And there will continue to be those guys. You just have to have someone that knows how to evaluate the rawest of talent.

On the 1996 Marshall National Championship team, they had 23 of the 63 on the roster at least signed an UDFA deal or had an NFL mini camp tryout plus 4 that went in the CFL draft.

NDSU and Alabama have made it pretty boring at both levels to watch. Great teams but I tuned into the game yesterday for about five minutes and got bored after seeing it was going to be a blowout. Won't watch a second of tomorrows game.

(01-09-2022 11:25 AM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(01-09-2022 10:30 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Part of it is FCS powers no longer competing in the playoffs.

But I think people overlook the 20+ extra scholarships that move-ups like Georgia Southern, App State, and Coastal Coastal Carolina use up as well as start-ups like Georgia State, South Alabama, and UNCC. The southeast is arguably the top region for both P5 and G5 football but the southeast has no one in FCS with a pulse other than maybe Kennesaw State and let's face it they're not competing with NDSU and JMU.

Guys like Eric Ward and Josh Vaughn and Kevin Grayson from Richmond's 2008 national championship team today would probably sign with a G5 team as well as a lot of the players programs like William and Mary and Furman and Wofford.

I don't get the argument that to many start up programs take away or dilute the recruiting process. There is a surplus of talent out there, you might have to fight a little harder or look a little longer to get it but there is plenty of talent to go around. And there are always guys overlooked by IA and always have been. You have to look no further than Chad Pennington (Marshall SoCon), Dexter Coakley (Appy State SoCon), Phil Simms (Morehead State OVC) and Jerry Rice (Mississippi Valley SWAC).

And there will continue to be those guys. You just have to have someone that knows how to evaluate the rawest of talent.

On the 1996 Marshall National Championship team, they had 23 of the 63 on the roster at least signed an UDFA deal or had an NFL mini camp tryout plus 4 that went in the CFL draft.

Yes, but there weren't nearly as many non-major FBS teams to compete with in those days, so there's just no comparison. There's a lot more FBS scholarships in the region than there used to be.

(01-09-2022 11:25 AM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(01-09-2022 10:30 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Part of it is FCS powers no longer competing in the playoffs.

But I think people overlook the 20+ extra scholarships that move-ups like Georgia Southern, App State, and Coastal Coastal Carolina use up as well as start-ups like Georgia State, South Alabama, and UNCC. The southeast is arguably the top region for both P5 and G5 football but the southeast has no one in FCS with a pulse other than maybe Kennesaw State and let's face it they're not competing with NDSU and JMU.

Guys like Eric Ward and Josh Vaughn and Kevin Grayson from Richmond's 2008 national championship team today would probably sign with a G5 team as well as a lot of the players programs like William and Mary and Furman and Wofford.

I don't get the argument that to many start up programs take away or dilute the recruiting process. There is a surplus of talent out there, you might have to fight a little harder or look a little longer to get it but there is plenty of talent to go around. And there are always guys overlooked by IA and always have been. You have to look no further than Chad Pennington (Marshall SoCon), Dexter Coakley (Appy State SoCon), Phil Simms (Morehead State OVC) and Jerry Rice (Mississippi Valley SWAC).

And there will continue to be those guys. You just have to have someone that knows how to evaluate the rawest of talent.

On the 1996 Marshall National Championship team, they had 23 of the 63 on the roster at least signed an UDFA deal or had an NFL mini camp tryout plus 4 that went in the CFL draft.

Not only do have to find that diamond in the rough, you also have to be able to develop that player. To many guys get promoted to major FBS programs off of player talent at lower levels, but are unable to develop players at the higher levels to maintain that success. For example, use Nick Saban and Gus Malzahn as examples. Saban not only recruits high, he also develops them and makes better, while Malzahn can recruit, he can’t develop, one has continuous success the other doesn’t.

(01-09-2022 11:40 AM)slycat Wrote:  NDSU and Alabama have made it pretty boring at both levels to watch. Great teams but I tuned into the game yesterday for about five minutes and got bored after seeing it was going to be a blowout. Won't watch a second of tomorrows game.

It’s not only D1 football that has these dynasties going on, D3 has it as well. D2 seems to be competitive with new champions each year for the last few years.

Even NAIA has a dynasty going, Morningside has won 3 of the last 4 championships.

This is why there needs to be promotion/relegation in sports.

(01-09-2022 12:14 PM)Usajags Wrote:  This is why there needs to be promotion/relegation in sports.

That will never happen in college due to budgets and academics or in some cases lack there of.

(01-09-2022 01:41 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  

(01-09-2022 12:14 PM)Usajags Wrote:  This is why there needs to be promotion/relegation in sports.

That will never happen in college due to budgets and academics or in some cases lack there of.

I get that it’ll never happen, doesn’t mean it shouldn’t happen.

(01-09-2022 02:06 PM)Usajags Wrote:  I get that it’ll never happen, doesn’t mean it shouldn’t happen.

Again, no it shouldn't, for the 2 reasons I just mentioned. I think you would find more DII schools would have trouble at the IAA level just as you see most IAA have trouble at the IA level right away. It isn't as easy as a few have made it look. Even Boise State had a losing season their first 2 years in IA (1996 2-10, 1997 5-6).

Promotion/relegation tends to work itself out, doesn't it? If a program can't maintain at a certain level, they'll drop back down. As long as some key rivalries can be maintained across levels, I think it'd be interesting to try in college sports.

NDSU always has a huge offensive line. I don't know but I have always figured they can count on getting Midwest farm boys that are
6'6" and 325 for the O line.

I have never figured out how they have signed two QBs that were top 5 NFL picks.